Simple weapons?

[bigbaddragon]

Assuming that you are a cleric without War domain and you do not have a feat to burn for proficiency, but you intend to be in the heat of the battle 90% of the time, which simple weapon would you prefer to use?

In other words, which simple weapon do you consider the best?

[Fax Celestis]

I'm a big fan of the punching dagger and the longspear, myself.

[Xefas]

In your situation, I'd go with a Longspear, with a Morningstar and a Shield for backup if needed.

Quite simply, longspears give you a good AoO when people close with you, and then you can just 5ft step + full attack every round after that so long as you have room. If you don't have room, whip out the Morningstar and Shield.

Morningstar over Heavy Mace because Morningstars can do Piercing Damage in addition to Bludgeoning if you need one or the other.

[ArmorArmadillo]

Generally anything 1-handed is good, because you can use it 2-handed for extra damage if necessary or use a shield.

Morningstars are nice because they do bludgeoning and piercing.

You might also want to keep a sickle on hand if you really need to do slashing damage.

Spears are also good, because they have a potential for a heavy crit.

Keep a crossbow handy, but you won't use it very often.

[Miraqariftsky]

...but you intend to be in the heat of the battle 90% of the time, which simple weapon would you prefer to use?

In other words, which simple weapon do you consider the best?

Melee weapon, you mean?

Alright, here are my recommendations:

Sickle--- 1d6 damage, a +2 to tripping, it's also a light weapon--- can be used while being swallowed or during a grapple

Morningstar--- 1d8 damage (best you could get with a simple weapon) and two kinds of damage, bludgeoning and piercing

Short/spear--- decent 1d6 damage, x3 on a crit, and you can still use a shield for the AC of it. If you want to use 1.5x your Str bonus, sacrifice shield usage and go for the regular Spear.

[JellyPooga]

I've always been a fan of the Quarterstaff myself...it's not the 'best' weapon in the world, but it's one you can take practically anywhere ("I can't give up my walking stick...") and it's free (unless you buy MW, in which case it's twice the price of practically every other weapon...wtf?). Simple and Classic :smallwink:

[SurlySeraph]

I've always been a fan of the Quarterstaff myself...it's not the 'best' weapon in the world, but it's one you can take practically anywhere ("I can't give up my walking stick...") and it's free (unless you buy MW, in which case it's twice the price of practically every other weapon...wtf?). Simple and Classic :smallwink:

They make masterwork staffs cost a lot because they assume that they'll be enchanted by someone with Craft Magic Weapon into one of the various uber-staffs that wizards can use, and they want to make those slightly harder to get.

[CasESenSITItiVE]

you mean craft staff?

[Everyman]

I will definately give a nod to the good ol' sickle, morningstar, and shortspear, as everyone else is doing. However, I would recommend one other crucial piece of adventuring equipment...
...
A dagger. As a rule of thumb, I never build a character without giving them a dagger. It's just a great multi-tasker: fighting, cutting ropes, slicing meat, shaving...there's just a lot one can do with a dagger.:smallsmile:

[bigbaddragon]

I suppose I should have mentioned that I am familiar with all simple weapons from PHB and recently I realized that a few simple weapons were added in Planar Handbook (Heavy Sickle for example) so I'm mostly wondering are there more additions like this in other supplements.

I mean that I'm not used to see other than (mostly) exotic and a few martial weapons in these books. Also I'm looking into melee weapons and already am a fan of longspear and morningstar.

Btw Nexus-R.C._Mina where did you get the info that sickle gives +2 to trip? I just checked PHB and it says nothing about that. Heck, the only weapon that gives bonus to trip that I've seen so far is Tigerskull Club.

Btw2 thanks all for answers :smallsmile:

[Miraqariftsky]

Re-checked the good ol' SRD. Sorry. My bad. Sickles can be usd to trip... just as scythes, halberds, flails and spiked chains could be...

[bigbaddragon]

A dagger. As a rule of thumb, I never build a character without giving them a dagger. It's just a great multi-tasker: fighting, cutting ropes, slicing meat, shaving...there's just a lot one can do with a dagger.:smallsmile:

Heh, the dagger is the most confusing weapon to me. It deals piercing or slashing damage. The shortsword (dagger's somewhat larger martial brother) is able to deal only piercing damage. Why? :confused:

Edit: Nexus-R.C._Mina don't worry be happy

[Fax Celestis]

Heh, the dagger is the most confusing weapon to me. It deals piercing or slashing damage. The shortsword (dagger's somewhat larger martial brother) is able to deal only piercing damage. Why? :confused:

Because the shortsword in the PHB is actually a gladius, which was a Roman invention mainly used for stabbity instead of sla****y.

[Miraqariftsky]

Maybe because it's patterned after the Roman gladius, which was meant primarily for stabbing, as opposed to the slashing spatha?

Bah, just get your GM to house-rule that most swords can deal both slashing and piercing damage...

[Lemur]

I've always been a fan of the Quarterstaff myself...it's not the 'best' weapon in the world, but it's one you can take practically anywhere ("I can't give up my walking stick...") and it's free (unless you buy MW, in which case it's twice the price of practically every other weapon...wtf?). Simple and Classic :smallwink:

The quarterstaff is a double weapon, which means both ends are considered separate weapons. Each end bears the cost of being masterwork separately, much like you can enchant different heads of a double weapon with different properties.

On that note, the staff isn't necessarily the best cleric weapon, but it can be a decent weapon for TWF rogues at low levels. As a double weapon, you can swing it two-handed if you have bonus strength and have already moved, or you can two-weapon fight with it if you have a full action available. Once you take weapon finesse, it's benefits tend to be outweighed by having two light weapons.

[slexlollar89]

i dont know about you, but i could always get the DM to houserule that a scuthe is a simple weapon. simple weapon because a friggan farmer can use it, and simple because it seems like they could be obtained almost anywhere. i know it says in the description that they have been "re-inforced for war or something", but that could be as SIMPLE as a crosspiec bolted on, and the pic doesnt look all that re-inforced. plus an evil cleric with a scythe is scary as all get out.

[ArmorArmadillo]

i dont know about you, but i could always get the DM to houserule that a scuthe is a simple weapon. simple weapon because a friggan farmer can use it, and simple because it seems like they could be obtained almost anywhere. i know it says in the description that they have been "re-inforced for war or something", but that could be as SIMPLE as a crosspiec bolted on, and the pic doesnt look all that re-inforced. plus an evil cleric with a scythe is scary as all get out.

A farmer can use it: to farm.

Anyone can use a Longsword to cut open a pumpkin. Using a scythe as a weapon requires special training because the weighting of the weapon is unusual and difficult.

[MrNexx]

Assuming that you are a cleric without War domain and you do not have a feat to burn for proficiency, but you intend to be in the heat of the battle 90% of the time, which simple weapon would you prefer to use?

I've always preferred the morningstar, myself... good damage, two types of damage, and lighter than a heavy mace.

[Starbuck_II]

The quarterstaff is a double weapon, which means both ends are considered separate weapons. Each end bears the cost of being masterwork separately, much like you can enchant different heads of a double weapon with different properties.


Wait, you can have one end of a Quarterstaff masterwork and not the other?

[MrNexx]

Wait, you can have one end of a Quarterstaff masterwork and not the other?

In a fit of absolute stupidity, yes.

[skywalker]

Because the shortsword in the PHB is actually a gladius, which was a Roman invention mainly used for stabbity instead of sla****y.

WTH just happened to Fax's post?

Starbuck, no, you cannot. However, the cost applies to both ends, since it is a double weapon. Because instead of getting +1 to one attack, you are getting +1 to two attacks. It is not the same as a magic weapon, where the different heads can have different enchantments. Both ends must be masterwork, and that is why it costs double(this last bit was not directed at you, but it fit best here).

I concur with Jelly, the quarterstaff is classic. Outside of the SRD, I've got nothing. They don't usually do much with new simple weapons. Probably because simple weapon users(casters) get to do lots of other fun things that are lots more fun.

[Fhaolan]

i dont know about you, but i could always get the DM to houserule that a scuthe is a simple weapon. simple weapon because a friggan farmer can use it, and simple because it seems like they could be obtained almost anywhere. i know it says in the description that they have been "re-inforced for war or something", but that could be as SIMPLE as a crosspiec bolted on, and the pic doesnt look all that re-inforced. plus an evil cleric with a scythe is scary as all get out.

I have used a scythe. I cut hay one summer as part of one of those re-enactment villages that demonstrates life back in the day. Never again. :smallsmile:

An agricultural scythe is very simple when used to cut plants at just above ground level. In no way is it simple to use as a weapon, unless your opponent has a tendency to stand in one place for long periods of time watching you cut his feet off. It is *extremely* ungainly to use at any other angle at anything approaching combat speed.

There were war-scythes in RL. One of the common names for it was 'Fauchard'. It was considerably different from the agricultural scythe in the same way a warhammer is different from a blacksmith's hammer, and a dagger is different from a bread knife. In other words, a reasonable person would consider them different tools just looking at them.

[brian c]

WTH just happened to Fax's post?

Well, he wrote "stabbity", then he wrote "slash" with the same "ity" prefix, and turns out there's a bad word hidden in there

[skywalker]

Well, he wrote "stabbity", then he wrote "slash" with the same "ity" prefix, and turns out there's a bad word hidden in there


Apparently I wasn't clever enough to figure that out the first time around. No sleep+lack of coffee FTL!

[AtomicKitKat]

It's a su(b)ffix by the way. Always remember kids, "Pre" implies that it comes before.

And be happy the Scythe is Martial. It was Exotic in 3.0.:smallfurious:

[TheOOB]

Generally speaking I either go for the longspear or morning star. The morning star allows you to use a buckler (don't use heavy shields, you cant use somatic components with them), but the longspear is 2H and has reach.

[Leicontis]

I have three things to say first in favor of the quarterstaff:
Shilleleigh (sp?)
Brambles
Spikes

Also, the staff can be used as a double or 2h weapon (not many 2-weapon clerics, but hey), it's free for non-mw, is universal and can be taken many places more overt weapons can't, and it has non-combat utility - after all, it's basically a sturdy wooden pole. Bludgeoning damage is also very useful against skeletal undead, whereas I've only seen one case in the game where piercing was actually useful.

Every character should, eventually, carry at least three daggers IMO (unless they've got one of these covered by a different weapon): one cold iron, one alchemical silver, and one adamantine. Of all the non-magical items in the game, the adamantine dagger is one of the most useful, as it can be used not just as a versatile weapon (piercing OR slashing, melee OR thrown, small enough to be concealed) but as an all-purpose cutting tool.

[Rockphed]

I recently made a rouge who followed this strategy, only I forgot the adamantine dagger. Must remember to add it.

Remember: if you aren't weighed down by weapons, you are doing something wrong!

[John Campbell]

i dont know about you, but i could always get the DM to houserule that a scuthe is a simple weapon. simple weapon because a friggan farmer can use it, and simple because it seems like they could be obtained almost anywhere. i know it says in the description that they have been "re-inforced for war or something", but that could be as SIMPLE as a crosspiec bolted on, and the pic doesnt look all that re-inforced. plus an evil cleric with a scythe is scary as all get out.
Um, yeah. I've actually used a scythe, for cutting grass, a task for which it is heavily optimized and very effective, and experimented with the combat handling of the thing, a task for which it... well... Isn't.

I'm pretty good with melee weapons - I've been an SCA heavy fighter for more than a decade - and let me assure you, a scythe is not a simple weapon. A scythe is a good way to accidentally cut your own frickin' head off. Most of the weight is in the blade, which sticks out several feet at right angles to the haft, giving it a very odd center of balance and a nasty tendency to twist around in your hands at the slightest provocation. The blade prefers to trail behind the haft in a swing, rather than in front, where it needs to be if you want to hurt anyone besides yourself with it.

If I were a peasant facing the prospect of going into battle armed only with a scythe, the first thing I'd do is get a blacksmith to straighten the socket where the blade connects to the haft so that it was in-line instead of at right angles. Then I'd re-mount the blade on a straight shaft. That'd produce something like a glaive or a bill, which would be approximately 87 times more effective in a fight, though not so great at reaping grain.

D&D-wise, not only would I laugh at anyone who suggested that I allow it as a simple weapon, I'd kick it up into the exotic category, at best, and would be seriously tempted to just rule that it's not a real weapon: -4 improvised weapon penalty always applies. Though making it exotic would have the same effect unless someone specifically got the feat, and if someone really wants to spend a feat on Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Scythe) so that they can look k3wl, I suppose that's not my problem.

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

My favorite simple weapon is either the heavy mace or light crossbow.

[Tengu]

If I were a peasant facing the prospect of going into battle armed only with a scythe, the first thing I'd do is get a blacksmith to straighten the socket where the blade connects to the haft so that it was in-line instead of at right angles. Then I'd re-mount the blade on a straight shaft. That'd produce something like a glaive or a bill, which would be approximately 87 times more effective in a fight, though not so great at reaping grain.


When peasants in my country were taking part in insurgencies against Prussians and Russians in XIX century, they did almost exactly that with they scythes to make them usable in combat.

[Matthew]

It's apparently what was commonly done in the European Middle Ages, which goes some way towards explaining the proliferation of Pole Arms.

[Leon]

the core tenets of simple weapons: The Star and The Stick

The Star is easy, the stick is more complex - the Spear is a pointy stick in a varity of sizes, the crossbow fires a small stick, Quarterstaff is the ground state of the stick

[Fhaolan]

If I were a peasant facing the prospect of going into battle armed only with a scythe, the first thing I'd do is get a blacksmith to straighten the socket where the blade connects to the haft so that it was in-line instead of at right angles. Then I'd re-mount the blade on a straight shaft. That'd produce something like a glaive or a bill, which would be approximately 87 times more effective in a fight, though not so great at reaping grain.


What you described is precisely what was done to make the weapon known as a Fauchard. If you made it with a two-handed sword grip instead of a pole, it was called a Falx.

I've always wanted to get ahold of a Falx to add to my collection. I've seen pictures and videos of them in use, but nobody on this side of the pond makes reproductions of them.

[AtomicKitKat]

the core tenets of simple weapons: The Star and The Stick

The Star is easy, the stick is more complex - the Spear is a pointy stick in a varity of sizes, the crossbow fires a small stick, Quarterstaff is the ground state of the stick

What's "The Star"?

[slexlollar89]

i see your guyses points... and now wish i jadnt brought it up:smallbiggrin:
now i dont get to use a feat free scythe:smallfrown:

otherwise, lt crossbow and longspear, always carry a silver dagger (for ceremony/lycanthropes/vamps/devils/looks nice in dress uniform) and a false book to keep it in.

[Subotei]

If I were a peasant facing the prospect of going into battle armed only with a scythe, the first thing I'd do is get a blacksmith to straighten the socket where the blade connects to the haft so that it was in-line instead of at right angles. Then I'd re-mount the blade on a straight shaft. That'd produce something like a glaive or a bill, which would be approximately 87 times more effective in a fight, though not so great at reaping grain.

Thats exactly how they were used as peasant weapons - straighten the shaft and you have a crude pole-arm. Nobody in their right mind would try to use a regular scythe in battle - it doesn't even point the sharp bit at the enemy.

[Leon]

What's "The Star"?

Morning Star (http://www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog/images/cd-176.jpg/)

[Curmudgeon]

I like the heavy crossbow. You use it when the enemy is as far away as you can possibly see them. It's got excellent range and damage. The idea is to hit them when they can't return fire, then move to keep them from closing.

[Weredwarf]

Longspears, d8 damage and x3 crit is great for a simple weapon