So I'm making a thief rogue...

[GoblinGuy]

Any race and or role play(accents and the like) ideas?

[Avonar]

Race really could be anything. One idea I've always toyed with would be to run him as a "Retrieval Mercenary" of sorts. Break into places and steal things to return them to rightful owners. Just because the archetype says thief, doesn't mean you have to be one.

[Asmotherion]

I suppose you're looking for rp ideas?

Chaotic Good Urchin Backround Cat Burglar Winged Tiefling that specialises in Religious/Arcane Artwork and Objects with fancy Lore (a spear that was used to pierce the heart of a Demon, nails from the coffin of a Vampire, a Saint's supposed Urn, a painting of a deva falling from the heavens into the 9 Hells etc).

The reason he colects all that is to find buyers who will be interested in the hopes to explain his origins, and why he is so different than other people, never having met his parrents. He hopes to collect enough money to one day oppen an orphanage for other children who are born with special abilities and abandoned like him, and help them develop themselves and find their origins.

Gives a ton of adventure hooks to your DM, and he'll love the character for it.

[Chugger]

Grung! Be a poison dart tree frog! You can be fire engine red! Banana yellow!

(er except it isn't out yet - you could talk like Kermit! Oh, that would never get old!)

I like Easy_Lee's comments on thief - he's very good. Let's see if he can help you w/ any thief questions.

There are good guides here (under notable).

[Avigor]

Figure out something specific you can aspire to use the Use Magic Device ability for (like he wishes he was a Dwarf with a Dwarven Thrower on his wish list or something similar) and build around that. Alternatively, make him a cat burglar (whether literal or figurative is your call). Background for the first idea should work his obsession into it (like SCAG's Dwarven Craftsman for the Dwarf wannabe), for the latter it could be a classic (Criminal, Urchin), be a rebel (Noble), or even a cover (Guild Craftsman). Race could be just about anything for either; if you go with the cat race from Volo's (can't remember the name off the top of my head) the UMD obsession could even randomly change.

EDIT:

Race really could be anything. One idea I've always toyed with would be to run him as a "Retrieval Mercenary" of sorts. Break into places and steal things to return them to rightful owners. Just because the archetype says thief, doesn't mean you have to be one.

Sounds kinda like the Dungeoneers, the title group of Dwarves (plus one Gnome) from a book I'm reading the Kindle of from Amazon right now... I swear they're a bunch of genre-savvy D&D characters lol.

[Specter]

You definitely want a race that increases your DEX, like Human, Elf or Half-Elf. For roleplay, take a look at the flaws, ideals and bonds from the backgrounds list and you should have a notion.

[Sigreid]

Half orc that effects the accent and speech pattern of what he believes to be a "proper gentleman".

[NecroDancer]

Half orc that effects the accent and speech pattern of what he believes to be a "proper gentleman".

Relentless Endurance? More like Relentless Fancyness! Truely a gentleman thief.

[sneakthief]

Lightfoot halfling in awesome. RP-wise, maybe kicked out of the thieves guild for a girl that fell out? or simply has to avoid his old gang.

[Azgeroth]

just about any race, for myself it would be a wood elf, character as follows..

urchin background, grew up in a medium sized town, ousted the local thiefs guild with the assistance of some locals who helped care/nurture you growing up.

everything you steal/gain/sell is to support your fledgling guild back home..

only it isn't a thieves guild your supporting, and those NPCs that helped you oust the thieves guild are actually harpers, and your unknowingly supporting a harper cell.

[StoicLeaf]

Ok so what you want to roll is a drow or tiefling. A kender would also work, but they aren't AL allowed at the moment. I find these races have the stats and the necessary grit to pull off a well-thought out rogue.
Because your backstory naturally includes a horrible family event, thinly veiled misanthropy and being selected as the champion of an elite order (think batman meets kill bill), you're kind of a loner and the party is only of interest to you because they're a means to an end.
When it comes to engaging the world the DM has created for you, remember that most NPCs will carry some money around with them. Pickpocketting or a quick shank&lift are both viable (and necessary) strategies to further your own wealth. Sometimes, the DM will attempt to engage your party in dialogue. If you're feeling generous, let the party's high cha PC try talk to NPCs that have stuff you need, but your go to should be breaking into their house while they sleep and slitting their throats. And kicking their dog/children/significant other to death. Remember, Batman. Fear will keep all the plebs in check.
Often, if not all the time, the party will demand that you risk your life to scout ahead for traps and other life ending dangers. Do not be disheartened by jealousy masquerading as mockery. Comments such as "I hope he dies this time." merely reflect the utter superiority of the PC you have designed. Make sure to skim a finder's fee off the top of everything you find/identify for the group, also pickpocket them while they sleep (literally: you snooze, you lose. your gold. all of it). It is during these events that you must also engage in another vital function of the rogue: the party's HR department. Let's face it, some players will just end up as nuisances. And while it would probably be easier to get rid of the player, ending their character's life is a diplomatic solution to a problem, that, frankly, will occur in every game you play in. Feel free to slit these character's throats and steal their stuff as well; although this isn't stealing anymore, technically, I mention this only because DMs and players alike will be confused by this on a regular basis.

In combat, you want to bedazzle friends and foes alike with your acrobatic prowess. Attacking isn't really that important, the party's token retard (fighter, sometimes a paladin) can handle that.
Also, combat is the time for seduction; who cares if the enemy is of the same sex and heterosexual, you're a goddamned sex machine and the DM has no right to cage the beautiful free spirit that you are!

Ultimately, you'll realise that the people you're playing with just aren't on your level. You'll tell them you're leaving to find a different group; they'll pretend they're glad to see you go but we all know they secretly yearn for you to stay and win all the mind games for them.

The next group will likely include someone that's stealing your PC's persona. Call this out immediately. You'll likely end up looking for another group, but this time you'll know not to pick one where the special snowflake is the DM's significant other.

Good luck with your rogue!

[Easy_Lee]

I generally like the Healer feat on a Thief due to its synergy with Fast Hands. To RP that, perhaps try a background as a healer. He turned to a life of thieving after clerics moved to his town and, with their magic, put him out of business.

That gives you a good reason to dislike magic users in general. You can have a lot of RP fun with that, especially since you'll eventually steal many of their implements via Use Magic Device.

[Aett_Thorn]

I always like to think about what character motivations might be based on the race/class combo. For a thief, I might look at something like the following as RP choices:

1) Rock Gnome: You like to steal various items to figure out how they work. You're not really malicious, you're just driven by curiosity. You like to steal little bits and bobs to improve your own handiworks, as well. Your music box is now complete with that noble's silver statue on top dancing around. And your firestarter is accented nicely by a red dragon's scale taken from the knight's Dragon Scale armor.

2) Wood Elf: You're not really a "thief" at all, but your skills and climbing ability come from deftly swinging from tree to tree and hiding in the wilderness. Your bonus action items come from having to quickly change course or react after a branch breaks. Sure, maybe you steal from caravans going through your woods, but mainly you just like having a few mementos of the outside world.

3) Dragonborn: You have a copper dragon's blood in your veins, and you like to pull what you think are 'harmless' little pranks on people, such as taking a ring from a noble and putting it in a servant's pocket to watch the reactions, or making the king's treasured item and making it 'disappear'. You've figured out how to use your strength and claws to let you scale walls and other surfaces faster, and your extra charisma helps you get out of the trouble you tend to cause.

etc.

[Specter]

I generally like the Healer feat on a Thief due to its synergy with Fast Hands.

I allow this, but by RAW it's not legal.

[Easy_Lee]

I allow this, but by RAW it's not legal.

Yes it is. "When an object requires your action for its use, you take the Use an Object action." The DMG contradicts this, but only as far as magic items are concerned.

[Specter]

Yes it is. "When an object requires your action for its use, you take the Use an Object action." The DMG contradicts this, but only as far as magic items are concerned.

The healer feat says "As an action, you can...", but it doesn't call for the Use an Object action.

[Aett_Thorn]

The healer feat says "As an action, you can...", but it doesn't call for the Use an Object action.

Same as with applying a potion to someone. Sometimes I just don't think that the developers were thinking clearly when they wrote some sections of the PHB/DMG, or that things like the "Use an Object" action were written after some of these other parts, and certain descriptions weren't updated.

But I really don't know many DMs that wouldn't allow you to use Fast Hands to do either of these things.

[Easy_Lee]

The healer feat says "As an action, you can...", but it doesn't call for the Use an Object action.

When an object requires your action to use it, that's the use an object action. It clearly says that in the PHB. Go check if you don't believe me.

Fast Hands Healer works.

[BoringInfoGuy]

All the PHB rules related to Fast Hands and the Healer's kit:



Fast Hands
Starting at 3rd level, you can use the bonus action granted by your Cunning Action to make a Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check, use your thieves’ tools to disarm a trap or open a lock, or take the Use an Object action.

Other Activity on Your Turn
Your turn can include a variety of flourishes that require neither your action nor your move.
You can communicate however you are able, through brief utterances and gestures, as you take your turn.
You can also interact with one object or feature of the environment for free, during either your move or your action. For example, you could open a door during your move as you stride toward a foe, or you could draw your weapon as part of the same action you use to attack.
If you want to interact with a second object, you need to use your action. Some magic items and other special objects always require an action to use, as stated
in their descriptions.
The DM might require you to use an action for any
of these activities when it needs special care or when it presents an unusual obstacle. For instance, the DM could reasonably expect you to use an action to open a stuck door or turn a crank to lower a drawbridge.

Use an Object
You normally interact with an object while doing something else, such as when you draw a sword as part of an attack. When an object requires your action for its use, you take the Use an Object action. This action is also useful when you want to interact with more than one object on your turn.

Healer’s Kit.
This kit is a leather pouch containing bandages, salves, and splints. The kit has ten uses. As an action, you can expend one use of the kit to stabilize a creature that has 0 hit points, without needing to make a Wisdom (Medicine) check.

I cannot see any reason to think Fast Hands would not apply with a Healer's Kit.

[Varlon]

What Specter might be trying to say is that it wouldn't apply to the specific ability the Healer feat gives you, to restore the 1d6+whatever HP. This one is borderline given that it's the feat that's requiring you to use your action, rather than the object, even though you still have to spend a healer's kit charge. Just using the healer's kit to stabilize an ally/restore them to 1HP with the feat as a bonus action is 100% slam dunk allowed. Also daily reminder to never ever listen to Mike Mearls about rules. (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/11/23/can-one-use-a-healers-kit-with-a-thief-rouges-fast-hands/)


2) Wood Elf: You're not really a "thief" at all, but your skills and climbing ability come from deftly swinging from tree to tree and hiding in the wilderness. Your bonus action items come from having to quickly change course or react after a branch breaks. Sure, maybe you steal from caravans going through your woods, but mainly you just like having a few mementos of the outside world.
This is my Wood Elf Thief, who I'm pretty sure has never stolen anything. "Thief" is just a name. Except that Fast Hands came about because when he got to civilization he became obsessed with usable items, so he now has a massive utility belt of stuff.

[BoringInfoGuy]

What Specter might be trying to say is that it wouldn't apply to the specific ability the Healer feat gives you, to restore the 1d6+whatever HP. This one is borderline given that it's the feat that's requiring you to use your action, rather than the object, even though you still have to spend a healer's kit charge. Just using the healer's kit to stabilize an ally/restore them to 1HP with the feat as a bonus action is 100% slam dunk allowed. Also daily reminder to never ever listen to Mike Mearls about rules. (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/11/23/can-one-use-a-healers-kit-with-a-thief-rouges-fast-hands/)


This is my Wood Elf Thief, who I'm pretty sure has never stolen anything. "Thief" is just a name. Except that Fast Hands came about because when he got to civilization he became obsessed with usable items, so he now has a massive utility belt of stuff.
Thank you for the clarification on where the issue was.

The Healer Feat does two things. One, it improves its existing ability to stabilize a character. Two, it grants a new ability to restore HP using the kit.

The phrase "As an action..." used in the feat description should not be causing any confusion on whether Fast Hands can work with a Healer Feat / Healer's kit combo to restore HP.

If you check the description of the normal use of the Healer's Kit, it also says "As an action..." when you use it to stabilize a creature. Same phrase, same meaning.

The feat is not requiring you to use your action INSTEAD of the item, it is clarifying the new ability to restore HP also requires an action to use. As opposed to the free object interaction you can take without using an action each round.

[Varlon]

The feat is not requiring you to use your action INSTEAD of the item, it is clarifying the new ability to restore HP also requires an action to use. As opposed to the free object interaction you can take without using an action each round.
You may have parsed that differently than I intended - "it's the feat that's requiring you to use your action, rather than the object [requiring you to use your action]". I mentioned that because the Use an Object action is defined as being the action you use when an item requires you to use an action to use it. If you have to use an action because the feat says you have to, rather than because the item says you have to, then it doesn't count as the Use an Object action, and so doesn't qualify for Fast Hands. Is how it can be argued; it's not definitive to me either way.

[JellyPooga]

Tip No.1 - Don't be a literal thief. Seriously. The archetype might say Thief, but that doesn't mean you have to be a criminal. Literal thieves are generally not good party-players and tend to encourage the kind of characters StoicLeaf warns against. There's a reason society tends to frown upon/lock up literal thieves.

Tip No.2 - Dex is NOT the be-all and end-all of a Rogue. Especially for a Thief. Fast Hands is an amazing ability to synergise with a decent Strength score; performing feats of strength as a bonus action will put the party Barbarian to shame if you don't neglect Str! UMD used in conjunction with a magical Staff expands your versatility no end, but also encourages having good "mental" ability scores. Check with your GM how he wants to play such interactions because technically a Thief Rogue does not have a Spell Save DC (which is an aspect of the Spellcasting feature; a feature that Thief Rogues do not have), but can attune and use magical Staves, presumably including the ability to cast spells from them; an oversight that returns a "404, Page not found" error by RAW (as far as I'm aware) when trying to determine the DC of Saves required of the spells cast from those Staves. In summary; don't neglect your non-Dex ability scores. Dex 16 is plenty for any Thief.

Tip No.3 - Race is a matter of personal preference. Yes, Halflings, Wood Elves and Feral Tielflings get the favourable Dex boost, but as mentioned in Tip 2; Dex isn't everthing. Hill Dwarves make good Trapfinders and Tank-Rogues. Half-Orcs are great brute-Rogues. So on and so forth. Of particular note when it comes to Race, Darkvision may or may not be an issue to consder. If you plan on being the party scout, then you will probably want Darkvision; the longer the range the better. Drow and Svirfneblin (Deep Gnomes) are your go-to options on this front, what with their superior 120ft Darkvision. If you're not going to be the scout (which is totally a valid option, by the way; Rogue =/= Scout), then hanging around with the rest of the party (which probably includes at least one character without Darkvision) and their light-source means you can go for a non-Darkvision Race. NB - Darkvision isn't something you should rely on; in total darkness, you can only see 60ft (in most cases) and will have Disadvantage on all visual Perception checks; good luck spotting traps using your Passive Perception at -5.

[Moredhel24]

Race could be just about anything for either; if you go with the cat race from Volo's (can't remember the name off the top of my head) the UMD obsession could even randomly change.
Volo's cat race is the Tabaxi. Variant Human is always a decent go to. I also like lightfoot halfling, bug bear cause of surprise attack combined w/sneak attack, any type of dwarf, dark elf cause jarlaxle (he seems to use a crap ton variety of magic items) and rock gnome their flavor melds w/ UMD for me. I also just had the idea of a tortle thief rogue pop into my head.

[Nifft]

Half orc that effects the accent and speech pattern of what he believes to be a "proper gentleman".

I'm picturing a Half-Orc "gentleman thief" Rogue who wears the finest barret and speaks with an outrageous French accent.

His rations always include some form of cheese and a decent bottle of wine. Always.

He is a repository for wine and cheese trivia.

[BoringInfoGuy]

You may have parsed that differently than I intended - "it's the feat that's requiring you to use your action, rather than the object [requiring you to use your action]". I mentioned that because the Use an Object action is defined as being the action you use when an item requires you to use an action to use it. If you have to use an action because the feat says you have to, rather than because the item says you have to, then it doesn't count as the Use an Object action, and so doesn't qualify for Fast Hands. Is how it can be argued; it's not definitive to me either way.

I am still having some trouble wrapping my head around the counter argument.

"When an object requires your action for its use, you take the Use an Object action."
The Healer's Kit is an object.

To Healer Feat gives you a second way to use the Healer's kit.

When you use the Feat granted ability to restore Hit points with the kit, you are still using the item, and that usage requires an action. That is all Use an Object calls for.

To say that you are not using the Use an Object action because the requirement came from a Feat instead of the item seems strange. It's like saying the requirement to use the Healer's Kit normally comes from the item's description instead of the item.

Well, I think I hopefully understand where the argument is coming from. Having someone neutral on the issue was helpful, thank you.

Anyway, enough distractions from fun thief concepts.

[wilhelmdubdub]

Air Genasi: combine second story work with the levitate spell for some hard core parkour.

Bugbear: because nobody would suspect the guy 10ft away to be making the slight of hand check.