Is roy already a BotAW?

[theinsulabot]

rich has created the class bearer of the ancestral weapon, a class which uses a family heirloom in which to create a bond with a dead ancestor to strengthen the bearer, and its been discussed whether or not roy might take the class as he forfills some (but not all) of the requirements. i was re-reading some old strips, and it occurs to me upon seeing this one

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0291.html

that within the distorted and quirky laws of the OotS, roy might already be a bearer. in real DnD, the ancestral spirit is of like mind, and supports the bearer in battle, but in OotS, i can see getting an ancestor who just happens to be on the same mission you were on, and may disagree with you on many points for humor.

[Porthos]

rich has created the class bearer of the ancestral weapon, a class which uses a family heirloom in which to create a bond with a dead ancestor to strengthen the bearer, and its been discussed whether or not roy might take the class as he forfills some (but not all) of the requirements. i was re-reading some old strips, and it occurs to me upon seeing this one

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0291.html

that within the distorted and quirky laws of the OotS, roy might already be a bearer. in real DnD, the ancestral spirit is of like mind, and supports the bearer in battle, but in OotS, i can see getting an ancestor who just happens to be on the same mission you were on, and may disagree with you on many points for humor.

Roy has no levels in any sort of spellcasting ability, so he therefore does not qualify for the class. Besides, he wouldn't want to be a member of that PrC, as it is a PrC for spellslingers. :smallsmile:

And before you trot out the cantrip argument (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0113.html), that is obviously a joke. You may have noticed that this webstrip has them now and again. :smallwink:

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Roy has no levels in any sort of spellcasting ability, so he therefore does not qualify for the class. Besides, he wouldn't want to be a member of that PrC, as it is a PrC for spellslingers. :smallsmile:

And before you trot out the cantrip argument (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0113.html), that is obviously a joke. You may have noticed that this webstrip has them now and again. :smallwink:

I'm not sure if Roy doesn't have any spellcasting levels:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0113.html
Second to last panel. Cantrips are spells, even if they are not very powerful ones. Just because Roy has never been seen casting "Mend" doesn't mean he can't.

It might not have been a joke. Eugene might have been Roy's "Master," which might add to the reasons why Roy and his dad didn't get along. I worked for my dad one year, or make that one SUMMER, and that was enough for me. :smallbiggrin:

Yeah, OotS has it's jokes, but sometimes clues are hidden in the jokes:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0131.html
Third Panel. I'm one of those who think Haley might have some dragon blood in her... I have more "evidence," but in interest of keeping on topic, I'll save it for another thread.

Of course, I also think only Elan will take a PrC. The rest will stay as they are, or take a level or two in something that complements their natural talents.

[Porthos]

I'm not sure if Roy doesn't have any spellcasting levels:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0113.html
Second to last panel. Cantrips are spells, even if they are not very powerful ones. Just because Roy has never been seen casting "Mend" doesn't mean he can't.


That strip is obviously a "you'll be back to learning how to cast cantrips within the week" argument. :smallsmile: Roy just never actually suscessfuly learned how to cast one. Anyway, I find the suggestion that Roy is hiding some form of magical talent bizarre, to say the least.

Why people keep trying to Lost (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_%28TV_series%29)-ify this strip, I'll never know. Roy isn't a secret mage (or a secret "future psychic" for matter :smalltongue: ). If he was he would have certainly used that ability in his fight with Xykon. Or at the very least, on his way down to the ground. :smallamused:

Besides, making Roy any type of spellcaster utterly ruins his character. The whole point of his existence is to try to disprove the myth that Caster Beats Fighter. He is out to show that Fighters can be just as successful in the world as casters. And for him to have even the slightest amount of spellcasting ability would utterly change his character.

And if we look at the PrC in question, Roy would need to be at least a fifth level wizard (or 7th lvl cleric or 11th level Paladin) to be eligible. And even if you accept the fact that Roy can somehow cast cantrips (and I absolutely do not) that is a long ways away from being able to cast Greater Magic Weapon.

So the only things stopping Roy from being in this PrC (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/xJ1VzXrzTxbe9Z8rXIV.html) is: Not having the feats for the class
Not having the 3rd level spell requirements for the class
Not having the Skill requirements for the class
And a little thing I like to call being completely and utterly unsuited for the goals and purposes of the PrC :smalltongue:

So besides those little points, the class is perfect for him. :smallamused:

Really, there are many Ancestral Sword PrCs out there. We don't need to shoehorn poor ol Roy into one that is not good for him. :smallsmile:

[theinsulabot]

you seem to be under the very mistaken impression that i believe roy had any desire for it. i was suggesting that eugene had done the leg work to imbed himself in the sword, making roy, who carries the sword to honor his family, a BotAW almost against his will

[Porthos]

you seem to be under the very mistaken impression that i believe roy had any desire for it. i was suggesting that eugene had done the leg work to imbed himself in the sword, making roy, who carries the sword to honor his family, a BotAW almost against his will

PrC's don't work that way. :smalltongue: Besides Eugene doesn't qualify for the PrC either (since he didn't use the sword regularly in his lifetime). :smallwink:

Now I could certainly see Eugene inhabiting the sword to make Roy's life miserable. But it wouldn't be an example of the Bearer of the Ancestral Sword. It'd be the example of one of the many other PrCs out there that have Ancestral Swords as part of their reason of being.* I really think people need to look beyond the name of the class (and the main intro fluff) and actually read the entire PrC, so they can see how bad it is for both Roy and Eugene.

I mean, beyond having a Kewl Name (and having been designed by The Giant), what good is the Bearer of the Ancestral Sword PrC when it relates to Roy and Eugene? Eugene wouldn't even be able to speak to Roy until Roy got his fourth level in the PrC....

.... Hey. Roy wouldn't have to hear from Eugene until he got to the 4th level in the PrC. Maybe this isn't all bad when it comes to Roy. :smallyuk:

Seriously though, the PrC is useless to both Eugene and Roy. Eugene can already speak to Roy through the weapon, so taking the PrC would cut back dramatically on how he can communicate with Roy. As for Roy, well, the sword is already a +7 or +8 equivalent sword (+5 sword + some sort of bane attack), so the main crunchiness he gets out of the PrC isn't realized either.

When it comes right down to it, the only thing that connects Roy and Eugene with the BotAW is that Rich designed both of them. :smallwink:

* ETA: And let's not forget the whole Samurai as a Class vs Description (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0209.html) argument. :smallwink: Just because Eugene is tied somewhat to the sword doesn't mean he wants to go down the BotAW/Generic PrC path. Or to put it another way, all Bearers of the Ancestral Sword have Ancestors that talk to them through their sword, but not all people who have Ancestors who talk to them through their swords are members of the Bearers of the Ancestral Sword PrC (or any other PrC for that matter).

Logic 101, don'tcha know. :smalltongue:

[factotum]

Or at the very least, on his way down to the ground. :smallamused:


Considering Feather Fall is a 1st level spell, it seems a no-brainer to assume he'd have cast it if he could...ergo, he can't even cast 1st level spells!

[Porthos]

Considering Feather Fall is a 1st level spell, it seems a no-brainer to assume he'd have cast it if he could...ergo, he can't even cast 1st level spells!

Especially since he could cast it in armor (with it having only a Verbal Component). Really, if Roy had any spells, Feather Fall would be pretty close to the top of the list.

[Setra]

And if it weren't prepared?

I mean, he probably could not have forseen the situation of being however high he was.

[Porthos]

And if it weren't prepared?

I mean, he probably could not have forseen the situation of being however high he was.

It's pretty much the same dilemma that V faced when he was a lizard. How many 1st level spells in the PHB have no Somatic component? The answer is: Not Many. And since Roy always uses his armor, you would think that he would choose spells that have no Somatic component to them.

And really, if he knew feather fall (or was capable of learning it), he would have said, "Crap. Why didn't I memorize it today/learn it at some point" as he was plummeting toward his doom instead of commenting that he was out of the range of Feather Fall from either V or Durkon.

Besides, when ever I run a Magic User, I always of some sort of Feather Fall handy (either memorized or [as long as I can afford it] a scroll/potion/what-have-you). Why? Coz you just never know when it will be handy. :smallwink:

[Setra]

Isn't it possible he doesn't prepare spells in the first place?

I mean, he probably had forsaken magic, and doesn't care about the fact he could cast. So he doesn't have a spellbook to prepare with. So why bother thinking about preparing spells when he was falling?

I'm just arguing for the heck of it :smalltongue:

[Porthos]

Isn't it possible he doesn't prepare spells in the first place?

I mean, he probably had forsaken magic, and doesn't care about the fact he could cast. So he doesn't have a spellbook to prepare with. So why bother thinking about preparing spells when he was falling?

Then he would have said, "Why did I forsake magic... Feather Fall sure would save me right about now." :smalltongue:


I'm just arguing for the heck of it :smalltongue:

Heh. I know the feeling. :smallbiggrin:

Still, I'll just paraphrase what I said above. This isn't Lost. We don't have to look for Hidden Agendas under every nook and cranny.

Course, I should look on the bright side. At least no one has raised the possibility lately that Belkar is a secret Paladin or that Haley is a secret Assassin.....

....

Crap. By typing that, I just ensured that someone will make that argument, haven't I? :smalleek:

Oh well. I suppose it was only a matter of time. :smallamused:

[Setra]

No one could ever make a remotely plausable arguement of Belkar being any sort of Paladin.

Except maybe a Paladin of Tyranny or whatever.

[factotum]

It's possible someone could make an argument that he's a fallen Paladin who is now a Blackguard, though...in fact, I think I just did right there! :smallwink:

[Setra]

It's possible someone could make an argument that he's a fallen Paladin who is now a Blackguard, though...in fact, I think I just did right there! :smallwink:
Not really.

There is no evidence Belkar could have ever been a Paladin upholding good.

Blackguard maybe, but not a chance for Paladin, it would seem.

I mean, from what we know of his past, he's always been a stabby halfling.

[BobTheDog]

If we're going to assume Roy has done anything special to get his beefed-up sword (other than the "stupid side-quest", of course), I think it is much more likely that he got a peek at the BoED and got the Ancestral Weapon feat.

Much less trouble than getting the prereqs for a PrC, and a nice ability indeed.

And since we're talking absurdities here, if there's need to make Roy able to cast cantrips, there's a feat in the Forgotten Realms book or something like that called "Arcane Schooling" or something like that (I'm too lazy to look it up now), that gives you cantrips.

As the old saying goes: "Feats solve everything".

[fangthane]

Belkar would never go for tyranny; far too restrictive. He'd go Paladin of Slaughter if he were to go for any of the variants.

As to Roy being in a prestige class, I have to go with what Porthos said (partly because I've said almost exactly the same myself, from time to time).

Besides, making Roy any type of spellcaster utterly ruins his character. The whole point of his existence is to try to disprove the myth that Caster Beats Fighter. He is out to show that Fighters can be just as successful in the world as casters. And for him to have even the slightest amount of spellcasting ability would utterly change his character.
Anything which permits Roy to cast spells weakens the divergence from his father's ideals, and weakens the dramatic and comic tension which can be derived therefrom. If it comes through legitimate character development and is reasonable (not that I can conceive, offhand, of such a reasonable development, but it could happen, I suppose) then fair enough - but until and unless such a turnaround takes place, Roy casting can only weaken the OotS' consistency.

[Kish]

Yeah, OotS has it's jokes, but sometimes clues are hidden in the jokes:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0131.html
Third Panel. I'm one of those who think Haley might have some dragon blood in her... I have more "evidence," but in interest of keeping on topic, I'll save it for another thread.

You cannot logically present something that there is no real evidence for itself as evidence. "Haley has dragon blood" is no closer to being established than "Roy can cast spells."

[Lord_Butters_I]

Suspending reality and saying that Roy can cast 0 level spells, there's a feat out there that lets a non-caster cast 3 0 level spells per day. So if Rich went with the "Roy can use cantrips" thing he would probibly pass it off with that feat.