[3.5] Build Help Telepath/Incarnate/Soul Manifester [Archive]

Nautilust

2017-10-04, 02:47 PM

Hello I'm looking to make a Telepath 3/Incarnate 1, he will pick up a level of Incarnate next level, then go into Soul Manifester.

The Gm has given us the array 16/15/14/12/10/10 to play with, and one ability score increase for being 4th level. I have arranged them Str 10/Dex 10/Con 15/Int 17/Wis 12/Cha 14.

I'm looking for a race that gives both a bonus to Int and Cha so i can be a better face/telepath.

My feats will be
1st: Azure Talent
Extra:Psycarnum Infusion
3rd:Psicrystal Affinity
Looking for suggestions on what to take after that.

Grod_The_Giant

2017-10-04, 03:01 PM

I don't think you'll find a race that boosts Int and Cha, at least not at LA+0. At least not without overpowered Dragon Magazine templates like Unseelie Fey. You can somewhat replace a Cha boost by taking Karmic Twin or Nymph's Kiss for the +2 to Cha checks, though.

Nautilust

2017-10-04, 03:06 PM

So it's one or the other?
How about a real nice Int improvement then? Then I can buy more skill ranks.

Grod_The_Giant

2017-10-04, 03:11 PM

So it's one or the other?
How about a real nice Int improvement then? Then I can buy more skill ranks.
Reviewing this list (http://ihititwithmyaxe.tumblr.com/post/9678117696/every-playable-race-in-35-dd-without-a-level), you've got:

Fire Elves (+2 Dex/Int, -2 Con/Cha, UA)
Grey Elves (+2 Dex/Int, -2 Str/Con, MM)
Sun Elves (+2 Int, -2 Con, FRCS/RoF)
Deep Imaskari (+2 Int, -2 Dex, Underdark/Web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003b))
Lesser Air Genasi (+2 Dex/Int, -2 Wis/Cha, PGtF)
Lesser Fire Genasi (+2 Int, -2 Cha, ditto)
Lesser Tiefling (+2 Int/Dex, -2 Cha, ditto)

And that looks like about it for Int boosts. Grey Elves are probably best for your purpose, unless you can get the Deep Imaskari's Spell Clutch ruled to work with psionic powers.

Nautilust

2017-10-04, 03:36 PM

Grey Elf it is.

Waker

2017-10-04, 03:54 PM

Remember that your Con limits how many melds you can shape, so keep it as your secondary or at worst tertiary stat.

daremetoidareyo

2017-10-04, 04:10 PM

don't you get a free psicrystal at psion 1 anyway? are you getting a second one for more essencia, and is that allowed?

Nautilust

2017-10-04, 04:19 PM

Note taken. need to A) Keep Con atleast a secondary ability. B) Get a magic item that buff's Con. C) Increase Int to 20 and then put the rest into Con.

torrasque666

2017-10-04, 04:22 PM

don't you get a free psicrystal at psion 1 anyway? are you getting a second one for more essencia, and is that allowed?
You do not. Unlike a wizard who gets a familiar for free, the psion would have to spend their 1st level bonus feat to accomplish the same thing. And since they are granted by feats, you cannot gain multiple iterations of the same feat without specific language stating so, so only 1 psicrystal.

Nautilust

2017-10-04, 04:44 PM

Aaaaand now he's not allowing the soul manifester class because it's not from a book.

Nifft

2017-10-04, 04:47 PM

Aaaaand now he's not allowing the soul manifester class because it's not from a book.

Be a Soul Caster.

Wizard is way more broken than Psion anyway.

Or just be a Wizard. Reducing your power was a nice gesture but it's not necessary.

Nautilust

2017-10-04, 04:53 PM

I'm mad enough i think that's what i'm going to do. I tried to be nice

Psyren

2017-10-04, 11:30 PM

Remember that your Con limits how many melds you can shape, so keep it as your secondary or at worst tertiary stat.

14 is fine for any caster including Incarnates. A +4 item with that will get you 8 melds, and it's unlikely you'll even have that many chakras opened.

Or just be a Wizard. Reducing your power was a nice gesture but it's not necessary.

I'm mad enough i think that's what i'm going to do. I tried to be nice

Maybe try talking to him first about why you want this build before taking a dump all over his table.
In particular, point out that Soul Manifester is literally just Soulcaster in different packaging.

Nautilust

2017-10-04, 11:43 PM

After I calmed down a bit I did try talking to him. I said that soul manifester was just soulcaster from the book geared towards psionics and sent him 2 pictures one from each class showing the table so he could see that they were basically the same thing. Told him why i wanted to play it, told him how much work i had already put into the character and he still said no. So I got frustrated and mad again and calmed down again. Now i'm not necessarily looking for a way to ruin his table. I just want a powerful character that I like, that meets his requirements. And hopefully we can be a happy table :smallsmile:

Psyren

2017-10-05, 12:39 AM

Sorry to hear that. I'd personally go with Soulcaster as the next best thing as that will also let you keep a lot of the work you put in, at least on the meldshaping side.

Nautilust

2017-10-05, 12:47 AM

I've put about equal time into meldshaping and psionics, reading the rules that is. And I'm just having trouble coming up with a specialization that works for me. I'm thinking bout just reducing it to 2 classes as well. So i'm either going to go straight meldshaper or psionic and a prestige. Both will be pretty powerful in their own respects but i think that psionics are definitely going to be more powerful than meldshaping. So i'm thinking either Incarnate, or Psion/Thrallherd or Psion/Anarchic Initiate (although i've heard the prestige class is pretty weak.) Or just straight Psion.

Or Cleric/Incarnate/Sapphire Heirarch, or Incarnate and one of the PrC's from MotI (although alot of the ones that look good don't actually raise meldshaper level.)

Edit: Of everything i've noted I'm thinking Telepath/Thrallherd, Cleric/Incarnate/Sapphire Hierarch, or Barbarian/Totemist/Totem Rager

Nifft

2017-10-05, 08:27 AM

Edit: Of everything i've noted I'm thinking Telepath/Thrallherd, Cleric/Incarnate/Sapphire Hierarch, or Barbarian/Totemist/Totem Rager

Telepath / Thrallhed is fun and strong.

Sapphire Hierarch is fun and strong.

Totem Rager is less powerful than a standard Barbarian, and less flexible than a standard Totemist. Don't play one until after you've played a standard Totemist.

Nautilust

2017-10-07, 08:20 PM

Ok so it looks like I'm playing this character after all.

It's looking like NG Human Telepath 3/ Incarnate 1

Str10/Dex10/Con16/Int16/Wis14/Cha12

Human Bonus Feat:Able Learner
1st: Nymph's Kiss
Psion Bonus Feat:Psicrystal Affinity
3rd:Azure Talent

Nifft

2017-10-07, 09:07 PM

Ok so it looks like I'm playing this character after all.

It's looking like LN Human Telepath 3/ Incarnate 1

Str10/Dex10/Con16/Int16/Wis14/Cha12

Human Bonus Feat: Nymph's Kiss
1st: Azure Talent
Psion Bonus Feat:Psycarnum Infusion
3rd:Psicrystal Affinity

I'm glad you and your DM are moving towards a working relationship.

Nymph's Kiss is [Exalted], which means the DM can take it away if your PC is less than PERFECT GOOD and you will get nothing in return. You're LN which means a Law Incarnate, so you're not even regular Good. I think you're not qualified for [Exalted] feats.

However, that's not necessarily bad. Look at your Telepath (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psion.htm) class skills, and look at the Soul Manifester (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20060217a)'s much smaller skill list. You may do better over the long term with Able Learner (Races of Destiny, human-only) rather than Nymph's Kiss. Otherwise, you'd be paying 2 skill points per rank in your social skills at all future levels, and most Knowledge skills.

With Able Learner, your Knowledge and social skills will always be class skills.

Nautilust

2017-10-07, 09:12 PM

I switched to Neutral Good and also picked up Able Learner.

Nifft

2017-10-07, 09:37 PM

I switched to Neutral Good and also picked up Able Learner.

IMHO the Good Incarnate options are less interesting than Law or Chaos, but if you like them better, that's cool too.

Let's talk powers.

You're a Psion 3, which means you have at least 5 level 1 powers and up to 2 level 2 powers.

Your level 2 powers will be the hardest decisions, since you have some great choices:
- Aversion is an hours-long debuff / manipulation.
- Psi Suggestion is a fantastic manipulation power, but no good in combat.
- Read Thoughts is like Detect Thoughts except better in every way.

... and that's just from your Discipline list. Other great level 2 powers include:
- Share Pain (this is half of how you tank, along with Vigor)
- Energy Stun
- Psi Levitate

Level 1 choices are also tough:
- Psi Charm (stays good for a long time)
- Conceal Thoughts + Empathy (you become a great liar) ... and you can add Attraction and/or Telempathic Projection for even more
- Vigor (+ Share Pain for tanking)
- Entangling Ectoplasm
- Call to Mind (re-roll Knowledge checks)
- Detect Psionics
- Energy Ray
- Channel the Psychic Dragon (oddball utility)
- Synchronicity
- Call Item (fantastic utility)

Nautilust

2017-10-07, 10:21 PM

Anyone know of any magic items that increase encumbrance levels. Trying to wear a Breastplate and Heavy Mace but that sets me to Medium Encumbrance

Nifft

2017-10-07, 10:26 PM

Anyone know of any magic items that increase encumbrance levels. Trying to wear a Breastplate and Heavy Mace but that sets me to Medium Encumbrance

Darkwood Heavy Shield is 5 lbs and ~300 gp.

Mithral Chain Shirt is 20 lbs and ~1,100 gp.

MaxiDuRaritry

2017-10-08, 07:11 AM

Encumbrance:

--Natural Heavyweight feat (Planar Handbook): count as one size larger for carrying capacity
--Improved Encumbrance feat (Dragon Magazine #272): +4 to Str fo the purposes of carrying capacity
--Belt of the Wide Earth (Magic Item Compendium): Doubles carrying capacity
--Hauling Back Graft (Fiend Folio): Become quadrupedal
--Pack Mule, Other Mount, or Henchman (Monster Manual or other): Carries stuff for you
--Talisman of the Disc (Magic Item Compendium): Tenser's floating disc to also carry stuff for you

Everything else I know of is either third party or Pathfinder.

Your Heward's handy haversack should negate most of your carrying weight, which is one reason everyone loves it. It's...handy.

Also, as a psion, you have access to the inertial armor power. Wear a magical chain shirt for magical armor abilities but use inertial armor to boost your AC. Won't stack with your armor, but that's not why you're wearing the armor anyway.

Nifft

2017-10-08, 11:40 AM

I switched to Neutral Good and also picked up Able Learner.

Are you going to be a Face character (i.e. all the social skills)?

You can be an incredibly good social character with Incarnate + Telepath + Nymph's Kiss.

That's pretty much the only reason I'd take Nymph's Kiss with your build -- Diplomatic domination.

Nautilust

2017-10-08, 07:36 PM

Yeah this is going to be a face character.

Nautilust

2017-10-08, 11:21 PM

What kind of equipment would most useful for a Telepath/Incarnate who's Good aligned and intimate with a Nymph.

Also how would one expect a nymph to act if your intimate with them? Clingy? Possessive? Liberal? Calm? Would they expect letters on your Adventures and the Occaisonal visit, or will they find you when they want you? Do they believe in marraige? Polygamy? Monogomy? Any and all info would be useful.

Nautilust

2017-10-09, 03:21 AM

Also would it be better to go Erudite than Telepath. What would I be gaining? (Sadly I can't do Spell to Power cause it's an online resource)

Psyren

2017-10-09, 07:07 AM

FYI the mods here frown on double- and triple-posting.

For equipment I would suggest checking both a psion handbook (like the one linked in my sig) and an Incarnate handbook.

I wouldn't advise Erudite - it has a rule that makes it unfriendly for multiclass builds and your DM sounds like a stickler.

Nautilust

2017-10-09, 07:44 AM

Yeah i've been told that, i'm used to making as many posts as I like so this is a very different environment to me. That's why i included my question about nymphs on this thread instead of making a whole new one.

I haven't been able to access any links to psion handbooks, they all say things like the server is down or its been deleted etc.

And I would have to agree on not going Erudite after doing more research.

Psyren

2017-10-09, 07:46 AM

A quick Google (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=5343.0) showed that the domain changed but the handbook is the same. You can likely Google the Incarnate one too.

Nautilust

2017-10-09, 07:51 AM

Ah, so that was the problem. I suck at googling things.

Grod_The_Giant

2017-10-09, 07:57 AM

Not your fault; BG had some sort of server problem and now a lot of old links are broken.

Nifft

2017-10-09, 10:37 AM

I haven't been able to access any links to psion handbooks, they all say things like the server is down or its been deleted etc.
Start here: http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=399.0

First Psion handbook from there: http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=5343

Not your fault; BG had some sort of server problem and now a lot of old links are broken.

BG got re-hosted here: http://bg-archive.minmaxforum.com/

Nautilust

2017-10-10, 12:41 AM

I was wondering if I could get some ideas on how to bump this character up in combat. When I was playing my character Sunday I noticed that I was weak in combat, but managed to bluff the big bads into believing we had 100 more combatants on their way to pulverize them. I'm happy about my bluffing abilities that's one of the main emphasises of my character. But I need to do better in combat. Any Ideas?

Edit: Also, my GM said I could add feats to my Psicrystal. But he said they only get one at their third HD. I thought that they recieved 2 though one at their 1st and one at their 3rd. Am I wrong? and If not could someone explain why they get the 2 feats in a convincing manner so I can relay it to the GM?

Edit: To expand on details my character is as follows

NG Human Telepath 3/Incarnate 1
Str 14/Dex 10/Con 16/Int 16/Wis 10/Cha 12
BAB: +1 AC:17
Main Attack: Heavy Mace +3 attack/1d8+2 damage
Equipment: Breastplate, Heavy Steel Shield, Heavy Mace
Feats
Able Learner
Nymph's Kiss
Psicrystal Affinity
Azure Talent
Soulmelds: Bluesteel Bracers; Lammasu Mantle

My main issue is that I did not land a single hit in the combats we fought in. Even though I was charging (+2 to hit and damage; AC penalty is canceled out by Lammasu Mantle as long as opponents are Evil.) during most attacks. One of my friends was using improved bullrush to push my opponents into charging position for me to charge them. I didn't land a single hit. It was bad enough that by the time we reached our last opponents i went outside to smoke and just let them roll my dice for me. I was not having any fun with it. In retrospect I probably shouldn't have given up so easily but i'm pretty impulsive and i wasn't having fun so I was like whatever I don't care.

MaxiDuRaritry

2017-10-10, 07:18 AM

Telepaths aren't supposed to enter combat themselves; they're too squishy. They have pre-dominated minions for that.

Hire someone to do some divinatory work for you so you can hunt down some low-Will-save heavy bruisers, such as hydras, cave trolls, etc. Dominate the crap out of them. Make sure some of them are excellent grapplers. Set up some telepathy via the shedu crown or some other means, and ensure some of your minions have access to buffing spells to buff the others. Voila. You're now the heaviest hitter in the party by proxy. Whenever you come across something you want for a minion, have your grappling minions pin them down and proceed to dominate them. Grab access to dispel psionics in case they have protection vs [mind-affecting] stuff or protection from C/E/G/L. If you're too low level to have dominate, try hiring some minions. They're pretty cheap, especially if you buy some trained animals and hire a druid or ranger to use Handle Animal for you. Use your social skills to get a good deal. Also, use your social skills to mess with your enemies in combat. Find a way to access the control body power to take over your enemies directly, so they fight for you regardless of what they want. Later on, you can use solicit psicrystal to let your psicrystal take over concentration duties for you.

Basically, if you're entering combat yourself, you're doing it wrong.

As far as the psicrystal goes, they already gain one at 1st; the default is Alertness, which (just like any monster) can be replaced with anything it qualifies for. It doesn't need to be Alertness, after all. Just re-choose what it has on creation like anyone creating a new monster can do. Do note that the Alertness they get as a feat is not the same Alertness that you get for having a psicrystal, since the one listed under the psicrystal granted abilities is the Alertness that it gives to you. The Alertness feat it gains in its stat block is not the same one.

Also note that your psicrystal can speak one language of your choice; that's in addition to the ability it gets to speak telepathically (which is not [language-dependent]).

Psyren

2017-10-10, 07:32 AM

Astral Construct is useful in about 90% of combat encounters and a good number of non-combat ones too, so I suggest getting that. Unfortunately, your GM strikes me as the kind of person who would enforce the CPsi nerf.

Nautilust

2017-10-10, 07:33 AM

Dominate is duration: concentration, doesn't that mean I can't do anything but concentrate on the power or it stops working?

Ok, i thought they just bestowed Alertness on you, not that they also got the benefits themselves. So the 1st feat slot is taken.

I know that. It speaks undercommon.

Edit: I guess i'm so used to sword and board or just spell slinging that it didn't occur to me that as a telepath i didn't necessarily have to wade into combat myself.

MaxiDuRaritry

2017-10-10, 07:46 AM

Dominate is duration: concentration, doesn't that mean I can't do anything but concentrate on the power or it stops working?The XPH errata adds augment #4:

If you spend 1 additional power point, this power’s duration is 1 hour rather than concentration. If you spend 2 additional power points, this power’s duration is 1 day rather than concentration. If you spend 4 additional power points, this power’s duration is 1 day per manifester level rather than concentration.You'll have to ensure that you have access to ML boosters by effective psion level 7; Overchannel + an orange ioun stone should do it easily. Alternately, using a chakra bind to bind a metamagic rod to your hands chakra for an extra +1 (and the MIC has rules for creating psionic versions of magic items, so that's not a problem). Or you can use the Midnight Augmentation feat. Or you can take Metapower (Synchronicity/Linked Power) or (Psionic Dominate/Some Other Metapsionic Feat with a 0 pp Cost). A torc of power preservation would give you an extra effective pp to spend, too. Or you could take Practiced Manifester to cover some of your lost MLs from incarnate and such.

Lots of ways to wring extra augmentation out of it.

Ok, i thought they just bestowed Alertness on you, not that they also got the benefits themselves. So the 1st feat slot is taken.Since you didn't know you could choose that 1st level feat, ask your DM if you can tweak it a bit. Also, once you have access to psychic reformation, you should be able to change your psicrystal's feats around by sharing the power with it.

[edit]

Edit: I guess i'm so used to sword and board or just spell slinging that it didn't occur to me that as a telepath i didn't necessarily have to wade into combat myself.You're as squishy as a low level wizard right now. Avoid getting squished when at all possible. Also, use powers that allow you to attack from range, even stuff like psionic grease and entangling ectoplasm.

Nautilust

2017-10-10, 08:06 AM

Dominating and manipulating people is kinda evil though and I'm a Good character i might have to ask my Gm if I can change a few things.

MaxiDuRaritry

2017-10-10, 08:09 AM

Dominating and manipulating people is kinda evil though and I'm a Good character i might have to ask my Gm if I can change a few things.You're a telepath. That's, like, the only thing you do. What'd you think would happen?

Just say, "I'm using bad monsters to do good things." Sometimes the ends do justify the means. But in this case, the means aren't [Evil], so no, you're not doing evil things. Dominating itself is Neutral; it's what you do with the dominated critters that determines whether it's Good, Evil, or Neither.

Nautilust

2017-10-10, 08:16 AM

It looks like i didn't really think this character through enough, albeit i only spent a day making it.

MaxiDuRaritry

2017-10-10, 08:19 AM

It looks like i didn't really think this character through enough, albeit i only spent a day making it.Remember: Good doesn't mean nice. Think of it like this: you're either part of the problem or you're part of the solution. If the bad guys continue to be part of the problem, you're simply forcing them to become part of the solution.

You could also simply use your powers on non-sapient monsters. It's not like it's an evil act to capture monsters and train them to do what you want, right?

Nautilust

2017-10-10, 08:25 AM

The Gm's telling me if i start hiring people to fight for me and dominating creatures that it's going to decrease the parties XP.

Edit: If he let's me change up some things though i need to find a good replacement for Nymph's Kiss. I'm citing that i just did not think out my character very well and some changes would probably mke the game alot more simple for everyone involved.

MaxiDuRaritry

2017-10-10, 08:30 AM

The Gm's telling me if i start hiring people to fight for me and dominating creatures that it's going to decrease the parties XP."So you're telling me that if I use my own abilities, I get LESS experience?"

Nautilust

2017-10-10, 08:43 AM

It worries me that he is going to penalize me for playing my character the way it should probably be played.

MaxiDuRaritry

2017-10-10, 08:53 AM

It worries me that he is going to penalize me for playing my character the way it should probably be played.Honestly, given the amount of grief he's given you so far, I would have walked away long before now.

Nautilust

2017-10-10, 08:57 AM

The DMG specifically says that Hirelings do not receive XP, so if he rules they do i think that i just might walk away. The reason i've put up with so much grief is because it's really hard to find decent sized groups or even groups at all in the city i live in.

Edit: I really feel stupid now though. I should have thought about these kinds of things while I was making the character and now i'm causing problems that coud have been solved with some extra thought.

Grod_The_Giant

2017-10-10, 09:40 AM

Even if you have to forgo the charmed/dominated minions thing-- heck, even if you give up anything that's too overtly mind-control-y, there's plenty of good stuff on the Telepathy list. Read Thoughts is very useful and not very evil, Crisis of Breath is a fun save-or-lose... Hostile Empathic Transfer, friggin' Schism... plus all the normal Psion/Wilder powers.

You're not a melee fighter, mind you. You will never be a melee fighter. You're taking levels in three low-BAB classes; your to-hit will be approximately "hahaha, nope." You're a spellcaster; you attack with your powers and your soulmelds. Tomorrow, shape Dissolving Spittle instead of Bluesteel Bracers; that gives you a 2d6 ranged touch attack that you can fall back on all day long.

Also, you can swap Nymph's Kiss for Karmic Twin (Oriental Adventures). It keeps the +2 to Cha checks part and has no alignment restriction, but loses the save and skill point bonuses. Humans-only, but you're already a human, so...

And... try not to feel bad. From everything you've said, your GM has been the one making the character creation process the monumental hassle it's been. If you don't have a firm grasp yet, it's because he's changed his mind about what you're allowed to play, like, a dozen times, and even after allowing one build has been making up new wrinkles to throw at you.

MaxiDuRaritry

2017-10-10, 09:47 AM

And... try not to feel bad. From everything you've said, your GM has been the one making the character creation process the monumental hassle it's been. If you don't have a firm grasp yet, it's because he's changed his mind about what you're allowed to play, like, a dozen times, and even after allowing one build has been making up new wrinkles to throw at you.Plus friggin' one.

Nautilust

2017-10-10, 10:00 AM

I'n the case that he does agree with what i'm trying to do, how could I best make use of some hirelings til I reach level 9 (I think I'm doing my math right) and gain Dominate.

Nifft

2017-10-10, 10:07 AM

I'n the case that he does agree with what i'm trying to do, how could I best make use of some hirelings til I reach level 9 (I think I'm doing my math right) and gain Dominate.

In a normal game, there would be other characters who would be in your party, and you'd rely on them to stand between you and melee.

If you're playing solo, that's a whole different challenge.

So: who else is in your party?

MaxiDuRaritry

2017-10-10, 10:18 AM

In a normal game, there would be other characters who would be in your party, and you'd rely on them to stand between you and melee.

If you're playing solo, that's a whole different challenge.

So: who else is in your party?This is to make him feel like less of a 3rd wheel. Someone he gets to control in a fight to get some experience with leading others before dominate comes into play.

As far as the minion goes, hire someone big and dumb, preferably someone you can charm into being your best friend and wanting to protect you. See if you can find a troll or something.

daremetoidareyo

2017-10-10, 10:21 AM

Tomorrow, shape Dissolving Spittle instead of Bluesteel Bracers; that gives you a 2d6 ranged touch attack that you can fall back on all day long.

This is great advice. Shape dissolving spittle on days that you suspect that you shall be going into battle.

Also, you can swap Nymph's Kiss for Karmic Twin (Oriental Adventures). It keeps the +2 to Cha checks part and has no alignment restriction, but loses the save and skill point bonuses. Humans-only, but you're already a human, so...

Karmic twin requires you to be dragon clan, which is a weird clan. Their samurai all twf, their head daimyo/clan champion is a literal dragon, and the clan has a buttload of monks and tattooed monks at that are in the refuge of the mountains. Just some context.

Nifft

2017-10-10, 10:26 AM

This is to make him feel like less of a 3rd wheel. Someone he gets to control in a fight to get some experience with leading others before dominate comes into play. Primary casters have no reason to feel like a 3rd wheel.

Just play your Telepath like a primary caster.

You've got 5 levels to figure out how Dominate will work in this game. By that point, your DM may be less paranoid.

As far as the minion goes, hire someone big and dumb, preferably someone you can charm into being your best friend and wanting to protect you. See if you can find a troll or something. A Troll is:
- CR 5 (above your level)
- HD 6 (above your level)
- ECL 11 (way the heck above your level)

Trying to bring a troll to a level 4 encounter is going to make your DM feel totally justified about taking away XP, because it's such a blatant attempt at abusing the game's balance.

This is not good advice.

== == ==

@Nautilust - tell us about the other PCs in your party.

MaxiDuRaritry

2017-10-10, 10:33 AM

Psions tend to not be very good in the early game, and telepaths are even worse than most. Psionic charm is about the best thing he's got right now. (Though at least he's not a nomad.)

It's only a suggestion for a couple of levels until the really good powers kick in (including augmented low level powers).

Nautilust

2017-10-10, 10:58 AM

Shaping dissolving spittle on days where there's going to be fighting would be literally every day. Preferably I would instead be waking around with both Silvertongue mask and Truthseeker Goggles, cause i never know when we're not going to fight and having them at the ready could help us avoid fights. Till I get another soulmeld then I can start looking at other options but I think dissolving spitte is still out cause it's slots are taken.

I am definitely not going to try to bring in a troll until I gain use of Dominate.

Edit: There are 7 other people in the party so I guess there's the option of sitting out during combat. However it would probably be better for me to try to bring something to the table. Thus the idea of hirelings till I get dominate.

EditEdit: We have a Half-Dragon Half-Elf Sorceror, A Snow Elf Ranger/Monk/Wizard, A Human Fighter/Wizard, a Changeling Rogue/Assassin, A Human Gunslinger, A Human Cleric of Kord, A Gnome Shaman with Panther, then myself. I'm sure they could handle combatfor now but they would rightfully be mad if I didn't atleast TRY to bring something to combat. As a diplomat and telepath i'd probably bring in people to fight for me instead of sullying my hands.

Nifft

2017-10-10, 11:18 AM

Edit: There are 7 other people in the party so I guess there's the option of sitting out during combat. However it would probably be better for me to try to bring something to the table. Thus the idea of hirelings till I get dominate.

EditEdit: We have a Half-Dragon Half-Elf Sorceror, A Snow Elf Ranger/Monk/Wizard, A Human Fighter/Wizard, a Changeling Rogue/Assassin, A Human Gunslinger, A Human Cleric of Kord, A Gnome Shaman with Panther, then myself. I'm sure they could handle combatfor now but they would rightfully be mad if I didn't atleast TRY to bring something to combat. As a diplomat and telepath i'd probably bring in people to fight for me instead of sullying my hands.

Do not sit out during combat. That's boring for you and dangerous for your group.

Do contribute to combat by using your magical powers -- your Soulmelds and your Psionic powers.

Which powers did you take?
- Entangling Ectoplasm - obvious utility.
- Aversion - make one of the enemies fear one of the melee characters, like imposing an aversion to panthers, or make one of them fear you.
- Energy Push / Energy Stun - very obvious utility.

I'm going to 3rd the Dissolving Spittle idea. You have two Soulmeld slots, so spending one on combat and the other on social stuff is a perfect balance.

If you can't bring yourself to shape that soulmeld, then at least you can pick up a light crossbow.

Melee is not the only way to contribute.

Don't melee.

Do contribute.

Nautilust

2017-10-10, 11:32 AM

Grod_The_Giant

2017-10-10, 12:24 PM

I took Psi Suggestion, Psi Charm, Read Thoughts, Conceal Thoughts, Empathy, Channel the Psionic Dragon and Vigor. I am almost totally geared towards roleplaying outside of combat. I don't see myself giving up a slot for dissolving spittle. I could better use the bonuses from the two soulmelds I already plan on using without giving up one just to deal a little damage. I could probably pick up a light or heavy crossbow, or switch Vigor for something else. Or just do hirelings, or do hirelings and a crossbow, or do hirelings, a crossbow, and switch Vigor for something else.

Edit: I originally intended to use this character like a Tank in combat. I realize now maybe that was a little short-sighted and my talents are better suited to more like those of a caster.
Yeah, if you spent all your powers known on noncombat stuff and shape only noncombat melds, I can see where the combat-difficulty is coming in.

At the moment, your two best (only?) non-retraining-based options are probably using Suggestion to yank people out of the fight and shaping an offensive meld or two. Maaaybe Soulspark Familiar, though I don't remember them being very strong. If you want to do something more tanky, Mantle of Flame plus Astral Vambraces (they're from the same article as Soul Manifester, which got approved, so maybe?) has potential, at least until magic weapons start being common.

If retraining is allowed, I'd think about dumping Channel the Psionic Dragon and maybe Empathy. Channel is expensive for what it does, and "flexible skill boosts" is what the Incarnate does best; Empathy has some use, but Read Thoughts covers a lot of the same points and, again, you can use melds for skill boosts.

Workable offensive teleapthy-type powers include Mind Thrust, Sleep, Psionic Daze, Ego Whip, Aversion, Brain Lock, Inflict Pain, Serenity, and Mental Disruption; if you expand a bit to include telekinesis or easily-refluffed-as-telekinesis, add things like Entangling Ectoplasm, Hammer, Crystal-type powers, Constrictor's Touch, and Concussion Blast.

Nautilust

2017-10-10, 12:51 PM

GM said to go ahead and hire npc's if I want to. Since we are working in a city chock full of Dwarves i'm thinking 1 Mercenary Leader and 2-3 Mercenaries. People use hordes of summoned monsters in other games i don't see why, (Other than putting more strain on myself) me controlling few mercenaries would be that bad. At the very least I could do things to control the battle field with them like Bull Rushes and Flanking. Then at level 9 i'm going to Dominate a couple creatures and use them. Like I said I don't see my character as the type to sully his hands unless he absolutely has to. I would like to focus on role-playing as much as possible. I might take some utility powers like Sleep, Aversion, or Entangling Ectoplasm.

Nifft

2017-10-10, 01:39 PM

Not getting your hands dirty + focusing on role-playing. That's great. It's cool that you have a concept and you want to play it faithfully.

However -- you knew there was going to be a 'however' -- your character is living in a dangerous world, and your character is planning to voluntarily visit some of the extra-dangerous parts of that world.

You are planning to go on adventures.

Your character is a person who voluntarily goes into dangerous situations.

That's part of your character. It's okay to plan for combat, while also planning to not get your hands dirty (i.e. avoiding melee).

Some good "keep away from me" powers are:
- Aversion
- Energy Push
- Psi Grease
- Entangling Ectoplasm

Pick one or two of those.

Now, your powers are like big spells. They are expensive. You can't shoot off a power every round of combat. Find something to do in combat, every round, which isn't spending power points. Some ideas:
- Dissolving Spittle
- A light crossbow
- Lots of throwing knives, perhaps from a Gauntlet of Infinite Blades (MIC, 6,500 gp)

If you do want to get your hands dirty as a tank, here's a good package: Vigor + Share Pain + Psicrystal Affinity + Astral Vambraces (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20060217a) soulmeld. You won't do much damage, but you will be able to soak a lot of smaller non-magical attacks at low levels.

You can play your character in a huge number of ways. Psions are very flexible, and Incarnates can be even more flexible (albeit not as powerful). The combination gives you the ability to express yourself in several different ways. You can be great at social stuff ("role-playing") and also be good at combat, plus you can probably be great at some 3rd thing too like Knowledge skills or general utility.

You can be more than just one thing.

Nautilust

2017-10-10, 08:58 PM

Grod_The_Giant

2017-10-10, 09:04 PM

Ok, so which is better, a heavy crossbow or a light crossbow? Would adding the distance enhancement be useful?

What should my feat progression look like? Since i am a very impulsive person i should have a plan on what feats i'm going to get or else impulse buy things that look good and i won't have the most effective character. I already know I will need Azure Talent, Able Learner, and Psicrystal Affinity but IDK what to get beyond that.
Light Crossbows are definitely better; you want to avoid that full-round reload. Distance enchantments are almost certainly not worth it; crossbows already have pretty solid ranges. Honestly, I wouldn't put anything on it apart from Masterwork; you're going to be a pretty ineffective archer unless you invest feats and melds in it, and there's no sense in throwing good money after bad. I'd recommend a djore of Entangling Ectoplasm (or heck, Energy Ray) over a magic crossbow.

Nautilust

2017-10-10, 09:09 PM

I was going to use my 3rd soulmeld to shape sighting gloves. However maybe a dorje of entangling ectoplasm would better fit my character idea of not getting my hands dirty. I can entangle my opponents to help my allies do the dirtywork for me. I didn't even think of that.

Edit: I could pick up all kinds of dorjes now that I look at the section on them they look pretty useful.

Nifft

2017-10-10, 10:44 PM

If you want to fire every turn, you want a light crossbow.

Regarding your 4th feat: ask your DM specifically how Psycarnum Infusion works with Azure Talent. If it works in the intuitive way, you'll have an infinitely refreshing (but small) pool of PP which you can spend on stuff like entangling ectoplasm.

If it works in a useful way, then I'd suggest looking into Psycarnum Infusion -> Psionic Meditation.

Are you no longer Good, and either Lawful or Chaotic instead?

If so, take a look at Necrocarnum Alcolyte.

Specifically for your character, the Necrocarnum Circlet allows you to animate one zombie, which will then go around engaging in melee for you (and opening doors, and walking into traps, and baking cookies... well maybe not the cookies).

You get one zombie at a time, and if it gets destroyed, you can just animate another one. Very handy if you kill a bunch of humanoids and want to get some value from their corpses.

The other Necrocarnum stuff isn't as fantastic, but that one specific soulmeld looked like a great fit for your character.

Nautilust

2017-10-10, 11:28 PM

(Hopefully) I'm Chaotic now. However having zombies of any kind would have me fighting with the goodie two shoes Cleric, who may be hard to dominate...

Nautilust

2017-10-11, 04:39 AM

Grod_The_Giant

2017-10-11, 06:34 AM

The way I'm reading Psycarnum Infusion and Azure Talent is that once per day you could expend your psionic focus to gain bonus power points. Which would mean a few more uses of entangling ectoplasm. Not super powerful, but definitely useful. I'm afraid to pass it along to the GM though.
I think it does work all day by RAW... Psycarnum Infusion isn't investing anything, so it's not triggering the 1/day clause-- it just lets you act as if you had invested essentia. So expend your focus, gain 2-4 power points. Still, run it by the ol' DM.

Manyasone

2017-10-11, 06:47 AM

I think it does work all day by RAW... Psycarnum Infusion isn't investing anything, so it's not triggering the 1/day clause-- it just lets you act as if you had invested essentia. So expend your focus, gain 2-4 power points. Still, run it by the ol' DM.
This is the way we use it. My DM has no problem with it. After all, in combat it drains time. As buff it saves lots of resources

Nautilust

2017-10-11, 07:55 AM

MaxiDuRaritry

2017-10-11, 08:05 AM

How viable are Dorjes throughout your adventuring career? Could I just keep buying Dorjes with utility powers like Entangling Ectoplasm and Grease, Psionic my whole career or am I going to have to start looking for alternatives?Dorjes only manifest at whatever manifester level they were constructed at unless you have feats or other abilities that improve upon them -- and even then, it's only +1 or +2, generally. You'll want to use dorjes of powers that work well at the minimum manifester level, such as entangling ectoplasm, psionic minor creation, and call to mind. Nothing else remains useful for long unless you use tricks to improve them (such as sneak attacking with energy ray). Unfortunately, there just aren't many powers that qualify as useful when minimized like this.

Power stones, however, are always useful to a manifester, because you can use your own power points to manifest from a power stone, which increases the manifester level to your own and allows you to fully augment the power you manifest. This is a new rule in CPsi. It wipes the stone, but it's far, FAR more potent.

This situation is somewhat reversed from scrolls and wands, because there are a LOT of useful spells at minimum CL, and scrolls are comparatively a lot more expensive per charge, so you generally want wands instead of scrolls.

This is why I suggested buying lots of level 1 and level 2 power stones for utility powers in one of my earlier posts.

Grod_The_Giant

2017-10-11, 08:37 AM

How viable are Dorjes throughout your adventuring career? Could I just keep buying Dorjes with utility powers like Entangling Ectoplasm and Grease, Psionic my whole career or am I going to have to start looking for alternatives?
I mean... they're wands. You can invest in them to make them better (Dorje Mastery auto-augments them at 9th level, Dual Dorje lets you dual-wield for extra charges, the 3.0 Master Dorje lets you use your own power points instead of charges... or go full-on Psionic Artificer and stack metapsi stuff on them), but they'll give out sooner or later, and they'll be expensive, and you'll probably be weak, weak, spike to competence for a few levels with Dorje Mastery, then go back to struggling.

That said, you really only need them to tide you over for a level or two. You can pick up, oh, Brain Lock and Inflict Pain with your next Psion level, and maybe Crisis of Breath and Psionic Blast the one after that. That'll give you a credible offensive set.

Nautilust

2017-10-11, 09:40 AM

MaxiDuRaritry

2017-10-11, 09:55 AM

Any ideas on feat progression?

So far it's
(Flaw) Open Minded
(Flaw)Open Minded
Human Bonus Feat: Able Learner
1st: Psicrystal Affinity
Psion Bonus Feat: Azure Talent
3rd: Psycarnum Infusion (Pending Gm decision on how it works with Azure Talent)Instead of two instances of Open Minded, how about you convert one of them to Item Familiar at 3rd level (Azure Talent down to 1st), ensure that whatever you choose as an item familiar cannot be removed from your person or destroyed (such as a graft), and invest all of your skill points into it to get the invested skill bonuses? That gives you a spare feat, far higher skill bonuses than the two Open Minded feats would give you in the long run, and a magic item that cannot be removed from you. You could use the other feat for a metapsionic feat, or something else of your choosing.

Nautilust

2017-10-11, 10:03 AM

MaxiDuRaritry

2017-10-11, 10:38 AM

This might be lack of sleep talking but i'm having trouble figuring out where your meaning for me to move feats?

What book is Item Familiar in? What would be some good choices for the Item?

Edit: Looks like it's a pretty controversial feat to, the GM might not rule in favor of it.I was mainly considering it for the skill boosts. Open Minded isn't a BAD feat per se, but I would mainly consider it for shoring up prereqs for PrCs and such, rather than for general use.

Item Familiar is in Unearthed Arcana. (Also in the SRD.)

It is somewhat controversial, but it IS allowed at some tables; it's not TO by any means. It's also a good skill booster and allows you to replace both Open Minded feats with something a bit more durable and effective. While OM isn't a BAD feat, it's also not something that gives you much in the long run (again, unless used for PrC prereqs or something).

Is there a reason you want to burn 2 feats for 10 skill points?

Nifft

2017-10-11, 12:11 PM

Any ideas on feat progression?

So far it's
(Flaw) Open Minded
(Flaw)Open Minded
Human Bonus Feat: Able Learner
1st: Psicrystal Affinity
Psion Bonus Feat: Azure Talent
3rd: Psycarnum Infusion (Pending Gm decision on how it works with Azure Talent)

Why do you want Open Minded even once?

Generally useful feats are always good, the most common of which is Improved Initiative.

[Psionic] feats can be good:
- Speed of Thought (+10 ft. speed when Psionically focused)
- Psionic Body (you already have 3 [Psionic] feats)
- Greater / Psionic Endowment (+2 / +1 to power DCs)

You're looking into ranged attacks, so this is nice:
- Point Blank Shot
- Psionic Shot (+1 to attack & damage with ranged attacks, like Dissolving Spittle; +2d6 to one ranged attack per turn with Psionic Meditation)

Or you could focus on being a Psion (probably the strongest choice):
- Overchannel
- Talented

Grod_The_Giant

2017-10-11, 12:15 PM

Hidden Talent, if allowed, is also phenominal-- it lets you nab one first-level power off any list. Shape Soulmeld isn't bad either, if you know there's one meld you'll want to shape all the time.

Nifft

2017-10-11, 12:17 PM

Hidden Talent, if allowed, is also phenominal-- it lets you nab one first-level power off any list. Shape Soulmeld isn't bad either, if you know there's one meld you'll want to shape all the time.

What you say is correct, but both of those involve some DM allowances, and I hesitate to recommend pushing this particular DM.

IMHO for this character, playing conservatively by the rules may provide a higher value.

MaxiDuRaritry

2017-10-11, 12:19 PM

There's also Ancestral Relic. It's fantastic to be able to sacrifice useless magic items that you would normally sell for 50% in order to get exactly the item you want. (Or, you know, sit on top of an Evil temple and sacrifice the whole thing right out from under the cultists. According to the Stronghold Builder's Guide, buildings are expensive. :smallbiggrin:)

Perhaps a psychoactive skin? Start with a skin of ectoplasmic armor and work towards enhancing it as a skin of proteus.

Grod_The_Giant

2017-10-11, 12:26 PM

What you say is correct, but both of those involve some DM allowances, and I hesitate to recommend pushing this particular DM.

IMHO for this character, playing conservatively by the rules may provide a higher value.
Hidden Talent has that "high psionic campaign only" thing, yeah, but what about Shape Soulmeld needs allowances?

MaxiDuRaritry

2017-10-11, 12:39 PM

At higher levels*, I LOVE the phase cloak. Go read what the bind does. Now think of all the awesome ways that can be used, from avoiding AoOs during movement to pseudo flight to scouting through walls.

*By "higher levels," I mean "as soon as I can spend that many pp on psionic open chakra via ML boosts and cost reductions." With very little effort, I think that can be achieved at level 7.

Nifft

2017-10-11, 12:48 PM

Hidden Talent has that "high psionic campaign only" thing, yeah, but what about Shape Soulmeld needs allowances?

"Can I exceed the maximum number of shaped soulmelds using this feat?"

The specific mechanics of Shape Soulmeld on a Meldshaper are not nearly as clear as the equivalent feats would be for a Martial Initiator.

Nautilust

2017-10-11, 02:16 PM

Nifft

2017-10-11, 03:21 PM

Nautilust

2017-10-11, 03:25 PM

Well if I can't take Item Familiar then i'm sticking with Open Mind. I either need extra ranks or big skill buffs.

Edit: Since i'm Chaotic Neutral it looks like Ancestral Relic is out

MaxiDuRaritry

2017-10-11, 03:28 PM

Why would I want to take Open Minded?
Because those are extra skilll ranks that can be used for Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, and Sense Motive. Making my character more 3-Dimensional. However, Item Familiar seems to give better returns and is printed in book, 1st party no less. SO it meets the DM's stated requirements.

So it's looking like
(Flaw) Ancestral Relic (?)
(Flaw) Able Learner
Human Bonus Feat: Azure Talent
1st: Psicrystal Affinity
Psion Bonus Feat: Pyscarnum Infusion
3rd: Item Familiar (?)Ancestral Relic needs to be taken at 3rd level or better. I'd wait a bit on that one, since Item Familiar gives better returns the earlier you take it. Feel free to take Ancestral Relic at 6th+. Take one of your later feats earlier? Like, say, Linked Power, or something.

Edit: Probably want to use Ancestral Relic on some kind of weapon (Masterwork Deep Crystal Light Crossbow ?), and then Item Familiar on something that gives an AC boost (Skin of Ectoplasmic Armor ?). Do you have to be proficient in Heavy armor in order to use the Skin of Ectoplasmic ArmorTry exchanging that light crossbow for an elvencraft longbow or elvencraft shortbow. (Elvencraft is in Races of the Wild; +300 gp.) Then you can enhance it as both a bow and either a quarterstaff or a club, respectively. Alternatively, add the morphing weapon enhancement to it and change it into whatever you want whenever you want. You can even add the skillful weapon enhancement to it to be proficient regardless of its form (or aptitude if you're, say, an elf or kobold (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a), and have a Weapon Proficiency feat or six).

And no, the ectoplasmic skin is not armor, so you don't need proficiency in it.

Frankly, I'd take the skin as my relic and my weapon as my familiar, since familiar weapons gain enhancement bonuses but relics get miscellaneous enhancements; those psychoactive skins of proteus are amazing.

Nautilust

2017-10-11, 03:38 PM

Well Ancestral Relic requires good alignment and i'm Chaotic Neutral so I can't take it.
Also I somehow doubt that my DM would let me shift a Skin of Ectoplasmic Armor to a Skin of Proteus

Waiting on the Dm's call on Item Familiar right now. What's bad about the miscellaneous buffs, if they aren't bad i'd probably prefer them for this character. "Doesn't like to get his hands dirty" I'd be reluctant to take Item Familiar on a weapon i'm going to use as little as possible if I can take it for something i'm going to use alot more often.

Edit: I was told to take Item Familiar because it would give good skill buffs. Looking in the book i don't see where it says this, without you investing your own skill ranks into it. Which i see as a waste because it's 3 ranks for a +1 bonus. I already need all of the skill ranks that I can get hence the 2 Open Minds I took.

Nifft

2017-10-11, 03:55 PM

Waiting on the Dm's call on Item Familiar right now. What's bad about the miscellaneous buffs, if they aren't bad i'd probably prefer them for this character. "Doesn't like to get his hands dirty" I'd be reluctant to take Item Familiar on a weapon i'm going to use as little as possible if I can take it for something i'm going to use alot more often.

Some possible item ideas:
- ring of feather falling
- Heward's handy haversack
- third eye expose (MIC)
- crystal mask of discernment (MIC)

MaxiDuRaritry

2017-10-11, 03:55 PM

Well Ancestral Relic requires good alignment and i'm Chaotic Neutral so I can't take it.Ah. Well, there have been so many changes to your prospective character that I've rather lost track. You were Good-aligned the last I knew.

Also I somehow doubt that my DM would let me shift a Skin of Ectoplasmic Armor to a Skin of ProteusThe MIC and DMG both have rules about adding new abilities to existing items. Just add on the skin of proteus to the skin of ectoplasmic armor, and you're done.

Waiting on the Dm's call on Item Familiar right now. What's bad about the miscellaneous buffs, if they aren't bad i'd probably prefer them for this character. "Doesn't like to get his hands dirty" I'd be reluctant to take Item Familiar on a weapon i'm going to use as little as possible if I can take it for something i'm going to use alot more often.If you could take both feats, using Item Familiar for a weapon would be a lot more efficient. Plus, even if you're averse to making attacks yourself, the potential of a shapeshifting weapon is absolutely immense for all sorts of things, utility-wise. Almost unbelievably so. Especially given that you can add more magic to it to make it do other things.

Edit: I was told to take Item Familiar because it would give good skill buffs. Looking in the book i don't see where it says this, without you investing your own skill ranks into it. Which i see as a waste because it's 3 ranks for a +1 bonus. I already need all of the skill ranks that I can get hence the 2 Open Minds I took.You keep the use of the ranks; you just gain a bonus on top of it. And if you were to graft the psychoactive skin onto yourself as an illithid skin graft, it couldn't ever be removed from you, meaning there's no possibility of ever losing it (unless you somehow lose your body, anyway).

Nautilust

2017-10-11, 04:03 PM

Nifft

2017-10-11, 04:12 PM

I'd go look in Unearthed Arcana, the way it reads is that you lose those ranks. And that's how my DM is going to rule. Actually from the way Item Familiars read in the book they are kinda sucky.

You only lose the ranks if the item familiar is destroyed.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm

That said it is an optional variant and your DM might not allow item familiars, and it's normal to not have item familiars so that's fine.

I think you'll get more long-term value out of feats that scale with your character, like Overchannel + Talented, and I think you're going to see Incarnum giving you such high skill bonuses that you will regret spending two feats for a mere 10 points...

But it's your character :smallsmile:

Try stuff, learn what works, and see how you can improve on that.

Nautilust

2017-10-11, 04:17 PM

I'm just going to chock it up to weird wording.

I guess I'm looking at immediate results over long-term returns. I am not much of a planner.

Nautilust

2017-10-12, 07:16 AM

Looks like I am finally done with my character. Just one thing to finish which is stating my psicrystal and I shall be done.

What would make a good feat selection for my psicrystal.

Grod_The_Giant

2017-10-12, 07:18 AM

Looks like I am finally done with my character. Just one thing to finish which is stating my psicrystal and I shall be done.

What would make a good feat selection for my psicrystal.
Can you pick the first level feat too, or are you stuck with Alertness?

Nautilust

2017-10-12, 07:27 AM

I'm stuck with alertness

Nautilust

2017-10-12, 08:55 AM

Is there a way to open your soul chakra besides getting it through a class?

Grod_The_Giant

2017-10-12, 09:01 AM

I'm stuck with alertness
Mkay. Hmm... Mindsight? They get telepathy, so give 'em Mindsight. Another classic is to give them psionic feats you want, then manifest Feat Leech to borrow them.

Is there a way to open your soul chakra besides getting it through a class?
I don't think so. That's sort of their capstone.

Nifft

2017-10-12, 09:06 AM

Is there a way to open your soul chakra besides getting it through a class?

Yes, there's a feat which you can take at level 24.

Nautilust

2017-10-12, 09:13 AM

Thank you, mind sight it is.

Bummer, I was looking at Incarnate Avatar and it looked kinda nice, if for nothing other than I kinda get to take the form of a Blue Slaad. I love Slaad. Although upon further inspection it looks like it would do little for my build other than look cool and let me run away faster

MaxiDuRaritry

2017-10-12, 10:32 AM

Is there a way to open your soul chakra besides getting it through a class?If you want to cheese it out, you could always get lots of bonus HD early (inspire greatness + Complete Divine's curse of lycanthropy a bunch of times), take the feats, shape and bind the soulmeld through the epic feat, and then get rid of all the bonus HD. The soulmeld will still be shaped and bound, and you're good to go until it's dispelled.

It's pretty clearly TO, though, so there aren't many DMs other than maybe Emperor Tippy who would allow it.