(Sub-Class) The Essence Fighter

[Scarfking]

So i'm somewhat new to D&D, but i like making my own rules and fitting the game around what i want. I talked with my DM and, though I wanted to make a new class, we settled on a subclass, considering it's much easier to make. I thought i'd share it and see what you all think.

I drew inspiration from the series Puella Magi Madoka Magica. The mechanics of the show have a character's soul removed, put into a new "container" named the Soul Gem, and that is the source of their abilities. This allows them to summon a signature weapon at-will, and gives them superhuman abilities. For example, one girl could stop time for everything but herself and anything she touched. However, my DM didn't want to mess around with (re)moving a person's soul, due to some lore implication I don't recall. The superhuman abilities were also nerfed heavily, which I understand, considering stopping time is a 9th level spell. The characters also had a limited pool of mana (I'm calling it mana because that's what it is, but they never use the term in the show.), which depletes as they use their power. The mana is restored by a Grief Seed, which are obtained by defeating a specific enemy known as a Witch. In addition, the character dies if the mana pool runs out. The DM took out regenerating mana via Grief Seeds, since hunting down one specific enemy to maintain one's self would likely be very repetitive and tedious. The result of all of this was a character who had a supernatural pool of energy they used to enhance their physical abilities, but is punished for failing to manage this pool properly. Since the characters used physical weapons (Spears, swords, bows, etc), it made sense to use a martial class as the base, so we chose the Fighter.

And now, onto the details of the subclass. At level 3, when you choose the Essence Fighter, you're devoting yourself to developing this pool of energy you've discovered inside of yourself, known as "Essence", and reaping it's rewards. Your total number of "Essence Points" equals your Fighter Level times two, plus your Constitution modifier ((lvl*2)+CON). In addition, you can invest Essence Points into any roll that involves/entails the Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution stat, excluding saving throws. One point spent translates to adding 1 to the die roll. The maximum number of points you can invest in a single roll is 1/2 of your class level, rounded down. You MUST invest these points BEFORE you know the outcome of the roll. Additionally, if at any point your Essence Point total equals 0, then your maximum HP equals 1 times your class level, regardless of all other modifiers. You also cannot take any Attack actions until you have completed a Short or Long Rest. Lastly, you regain half of your maximum Essence Points, rounded up, after a Short Rest, and you regain all of your Essence Points after a Long Rest.

All of this basically boils down to what i wanted in the first place- a supernatural pool of energy used to enhance physical abilities, but you are punished for not managing it properly. I also heard an argument along the lines of- "If you're low on points, then just don't use them!" Which does make sense. But then, the points are the entirety of the subclass- if you run out, then you only have features from the parent class (Second wind, Fighting Style, Extra Attack, etc.) to use. Granted the Fighter class is fairly powerful on its own, but not using these points limits your potential.

At 7th level, you can invest points into any saving throw. One point spent equates to adding one to the roll.

Now we're into the territory where we carefully consider what we do with the points. Are you more of a defensive player? Do you need to secure this hit? And, can you risk going to 0 points? "If i don't succeed on this roll, I will die! I'm investing all three of these points in, even if it means I run out!" Better hope your allies can defeat whatever it is you're up against.

At 10th level, you can invest points to give yourself Temporary HP. One point spent gives you 2 Temporary HP.

This one was inspired by the show- one of the girls could channel her magic to heal very quickly. The DM said that it might be too powerful to straight up heal, especially since Fighters already get Second Wind. So we went for Temporary HP. And now we have another risk to consider- "should I give myself temporary HP now? What if I need these points later for a ST or an attack roll?" Your choice- just hope you don't regret this decision later.

At 15th level, you can invest points into any skill check. One point spent equals one point added to the roll.

Now here's where things get complex. "Am I sure i found every trap here? Maybe I should check again and invest points... Is it worth my essence points to persuade this guy, when we might end up fighting him if I roll low?" Once again, your decision. Just be certain you've considered every potential outcome.

And lastly, at 18th level, you can choose to assume a "Perfect Stance"- First you must spend 3 points at the end of your turn. At the start of your next turn, apply the following effects: you increase your AC by 2, you increase your speed by 10 ft., and you add 2d4 to all attack and damage rolls. You can add essence points on top of this using other abilities. Each turn you are in this state, you must pay 3 Essence Points at the beginning of your turn to maintain it. To end this ability, you will need to pay 3 additional Essence Points at the end of your turn, and you change back to normal at the start of your next turn.

This was by far the hardest ability for me and my DM to balance. It had to be worth a constant drain to your Essence Points, else you wouldn't assume this form. It also couldn't give too many bonuses, otherwise it would be OP. We settled on this, because it encompassed the "Superhuman Feats" aspect I wanted, while also being a huge risk. And one last point- the fact that you have to "buy" your way out of this is because you still have the +2 to AC until your next turn starts, and it also gives you another thing to consider- "I'm going into this form, and I know that I need to pay my way out, so i'd better be quick!"

That's everything in this subclass. Ignoring the potential lore implications of an "Essence"-like force within most/all of the races, what do you guys think? Powerful? Weak?

[JNAProductions]

Eh. I am not a fan. It's far, FAR too punishing when you run out (20 HP at level 20 and can't attack? That's a recipe for death right there) and doesn't give a ton even when it's there.

Plus, it's boring. You add +X to some rolls. That's... Useful, I guess. Just boring, though.

[Ixidor92]

So a couple of thoughts I have on this sub-class after looking at it:
-First: while the class has a focus flavor-wise and concept-wise, it does not seem to have a focus when it comes to purpose. You end up being able to add bonuses to any kind of d20 roll you make in the game, which while useful is a very broad application, and also turns the class into more of a jack of all trades, which isn't the purpose of the fighter.
-Second: The "essence points" to me seem to fill a similar role to a monk's ki points, though how they are used is more boring (as stated above: +X to a roll is useful, but not necessarily interesting for the player)
-Third: Taking both of the above points into account, it sounds like you would be better off trying to spin a subclass for this off of the monk, using the built-in ki points of that class, rather than make it a subclass for the fighter. Regardless of whether you stick with fighter or not, I would recommend trying to find more unique abilities for the essence points than just adding to d20 rolls.

[Scarfking]

Eh. I am not a fan. It's far, FAR too punishing when you run out (20 HP at level 20 and can't attack? That's a recipe for death right there) and doesn't give a ton even when it's there.

Plus, it's boring. You add +X to some rolls. That's... Useful, I guess. Just boring, though.

I suppose it is fairly bland, but wouldn't say that it's unfair when you run out. After all, you aren't forced to use them on every roll, and you could easily not use them. You would have to be truly desperate to use the last of your available points.


So a couple of thoughts I have on this sub-class after looking at it:
-First: while the class has a focus flavor-wise and concept-wise, it does not seem to have a focus when it comes to purpose. You end up being able to add bonuses to any kind of d20 roll you make in the game, which while useful is a very broad application, and also turns the class into more of a jack of all trades, which isn't the purpose of the fighter.
-Second: The "essence points" to me seem to fill a similar role to a monk's ki points, though how they are used is more boring (as stated above: +X to a roll is useful, but not necessarily interesting for the player)
-Third: Taking both of the above points into account, it sounds like you would be better off trying to spin a subclass for this off of the monk, using the built-in ki points of that class, rather than make it a subclass for the fighter. Regardless of whether you stick with fighter or not, I would recommend trying to find more unique abilities for the essence points than just adding to d20 rolls.

I see where you're coming from when it comes to purpose, but i did state multiple times my intention was "a supernatural pool of energy used to enhance physical abilities, but you are punished for not managing it properly." Although, with such broad parameters as "Enhancing physical abilities", i can see how it doesn't look like it has a purpose.

How you worded your second point made me realize more fully what the first person said. Other classes have you devoting resources to do something unique and amazing, while this devotes resources to doing normal things slightly better. It may be unique in that no other class can do this, but it isn't really engaging or fun.

Though i personally don't want it to be a Monk subclass, i understand where your coming from- Use a points system that already exists as opposed to creating a new one.

And as for unique abilities, the main "thing" I imagined about this subclass was adding to die rolls. There are two abilities that don't add to rolls, however- the "perfect stance" and giving yourself temporary HP. (Granted the "perfect stance" DOES add to attack/damage rolls, but it does have other advantages, and i could easily re-tune it to exclude the die rolls.) I suppose i could remove adding to saving throws and skill checks for other abilities, but i'm not sure what i would put in their place.

[Lalliman]

Aside from what's already been said, there's a much better way to deal with roll bonuses.

Having the choice to invest any number of points into a roll bonus and having to make the decision before you roll is frustrating. You have to estimate in your head what chance of success you think you have and how much you want to have, and base your point investment on that. And if you're like me, you'll probably end up disappointed with the outcome 90% of the time. Obviously it would suck if you invested a ton of points and then rolled really high or really low, making it not matter. But on the less extreme spectrum, let's say you need a 15, you invest 5 points into increasing your roll, and you roll a 14. Will you be happy that you succeeded thanks to your essence points, or angry that you wasted 4 of them unnecessarily? I know I wouldn't feel very satisfied about it.

Now compare Bardic Inspiration. The size of the bonus is already set, determined by the level of the bard who gave it to you. All you have to do is decide whether to use it. If you think you're going to fail, you use it. If you think you'll succeed, you keep it. If you didn't need it or it didn't matter, too bad. But if it made the difference in making you succeed, awesome! It doesn't matter if the Bardic Inspiration die gave you +12 when you only needed +1 because you didn't pay anything extra for it. It's simpler to deal with and has far lesser potential for disappointment.

So if you want to keep the roll bonus mechanic, consider using either a die or a static bonus (larger than +1) and limiting their use to one per roll. I think that will make it vastly more appealing.

[Scarfking]

Aside from what's already been said, there's a much better way to deal with roll bonuses.

Having the choice to invest any number of points into a roll bonus and having to make the decision before you roll is frustrating. You have to estimate in your head what chance of success you think you have and how much you want to have, and base your point investment on that. And if you're like me, you'll probably end up disappointed with the outcome 90% of the time. Obviously it would suck if you invested a ton of points and then rolled really high or really low, making it not matter. But on the less extreme spectrum, let's say you need a 15, you invest 5 points into increasing your roll, and you roll a 14. Will you be happy that you succeeded thanks to your essence points, or angry that you wasted 4 of them unnecessarily? I know I wouldn't feel very satisfied about it.

Now compare Bardic Inspiration. The size of the bonus is already set, determined by the level of the bard who gave it to you. All you have to do is decide whether to use it. If you think you're going to fail, you use it. If you think you'll succeed, you keep it. If you didn't need it or it didn't matter, too bad. But if it made the difference in making you succeed, awesome! It doesn't matter if the Bardic Inspiration die gave you +12 when you only needed +1 because you didn't pay anything extra for it. It's simpler to deal with and has far lesser potential for disappointment.

So if you want to keep the roll bonus mechanic, consider using either a die or a static bonus (larger than +1) and limiting their use to one per roll. I think that will make it vastly more appealing.

That does make some sense, however, the same idea could be applied to the bard. You use bardic inspiration, and you hit without the need to roll the extra die. Or, you roll so low that the inspiration was a waste. The same idea is present in both situations, but i do see your point in that it's likely to be much more frequent for the Essence Fighter, based on how the points work.

In light of that, how about this: You can spend one point to add two to the resulting die roll. This number increases to 3 at 7th level, 4 at 10th level, 5 at 15th level and 6 at 18th.

If i were to use something along those lines, i would have to reduce the total pool of points, to say, level plus constitution modifier. I'd also need to reduce the cost of the perfect stance ability, to probably 1 a turn, and rework the temporary HP mechanic to scale with the die roll increase and probably have it cost more. Would that be much better?

[JNAProductions]

Not really. This is still inherently boring.

Not to mention that giving +6 for one point is kinda borked. Hell, dip Rogue 1 for Expertise and you can rock a +23 bonus on something.

[Scarfking]

Not really. This is still inherently boring.

Not to mention that giving +6 for one point is kinda borked. Hell, dip Rogue 1 for Expertise and you can rock a +23 bonus on something.

How do you get +23? Maximum proficiency bonus is +6, Expertise makes that 12, +6 for Essence puts it to 18. Where are the last five points coming from?

But the point is still made. With proficiency, thats a +12 bonus to 1 roll, so either the bonus should be reduced or the cost goes up. I'm not certain.

[JNAProductions]

Stat modifier. +5.

[Scarfking]

Right, i completely forgot.

Anyway, based on suggestions, here's the changes to the level 3 ability:

At level 3, when you choose the Essence Fighter, you're devoting yourself to developing this pool of energy you've discovered inside of yourself, known as "Essence", and reaping it's rewards. Your total number of "Essence Points" equals your Fighter Level plus your Constitution modifier (lvl+CON). In addition, you can invest an Essence Point into any roll that involves/entails the Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution stat, excluding saving throws. One point spent translates to adding 1 to the die roll. This bonus increases to 2 at 10th level, and 3 at 18th level. You MUST invest the point BEFORE you know the outcome of the roll. Additionally, if at any point your Essence Point total equals 0, then your maximum HP equals 2 times your class level, regardless of all other modifiers. You also cannot take any Attack actions until you have completed a Short or Long Rest. Lastly, you regain half of your maximum Essence Points, rounded up, after a Short Rest, and you regain all of your Essence Points after a Long Rest.

Changes include removing the multi-point investing and making it an arbitrary bonus, reducing the max number of points, and making it a little more forgiving if you run out of points.

[JNAProductions]

That's still completely crippling if use all Essence points.

Look at Frenzy Barbarian. It gives exhaustion. Notice how NO ONE TOUCHES IT WITH A 10' POLE. There's a reason for that. Aping it is generally not gonna be good design.

[Lalliman]

That does make some sense, however, the same idea could be applied to the bard. You use bardic inspiration, and you hit without the need to roll the extra die. Or, you roll so low that the inspiration was a waste. The same idea is present in both situations, but i do see your point in that it's likely to be much more frequent for the Essence Fighter, based on how the points work.
I acknowledged that. The point is that the essence points have a high potential for disappointment even when they make the difference between success and failure. There's always potential for frustration in a chance-based game, but I don't think the player should feel bad about using their essence points in a case where they worked as intended.


In light of that, how about this: You can spend one point to add two to the resulting die roll. This number increases to 3 at 7th level, 4 at 10th level, 5 at 15th level and 6 at 18th.
This sounds solid. Since it ranges from 2 to 6, I would probably simplify it by saying you add your proficiency bonus.

I'm not really worried about the inflated numbers. You can achieve similarly inflated bonuses with things like Bless and Bardic Inspiration. Given that having high roll bonuses is this class' entire purpose, I don't see it as a problem. It doesn't get particularly egregious until high level, at which point you're competing with 9th level spells.

I definitely wouldn't nerf it down to giving a bonus of 1-3. Can you imagine how lame you'll feel having the ability to add +1 to your rolls as your main distinguishing class feature? It'll start feeling vaguely significant when it increases to 2 at level 10, but most games end before or shortly after that. If you want to tone down the maximum bonus from 6, I suggest you do 2 at first, 3 at 10th level and 4 at 15th.


Look at Frenzy Barbarian. It gives exhaustion. Notice how NO ONE TOUCHES IT WITH A 10' POLE. There's a reason for that. Aping it is generally not gonna be good design.
While the penalty does strike me as unnecessary, I wouldn't compare it to the Berserker. The Berserker can't use their main subclass feature at all without being crippled by it. This subclass can use their features just fine, only they can't spend that final point. In practice, it's just an elaborate way of saying "Your amount of Essence Points is fighter level + Constitution modifier - 1".

And lastly, yes, I agree that it's still boring and I wouldn't play it. But that's not really the point, since evidently Scarfking thinks it's worthwhile. So the question is whether it's viable and balanced for his usage.

[Scarfking]

Thanks for the suggestion, Lalliman. I'll change it to adding proficiency bonus in exchange for a point.

Circling back to the temporary HP ability, how does 3 points for 2x proficiency bonus sound? At 10th level, you would get 8, maxing out at 12 once you reach 17th level.

And while im at it, i may ask well as about the perfect stance ability. Are the bonuses it gives okay (+2 AC, +10 speed, +2d4 to attack and damage rolls), if i lower the costs to 1? 1 to initiate, 1 per turn to maintain, 1 to buy out. Or should i reduce the bonuses to stay in line with the cost?

[Morphic tide]

Okay, so, some details about the source material that is Puella Magi Madoka Magica:

1. Grief goes up with magic use.
2. The Soul Gem's maximum Grief capacity is variable, based on the Puella Magi's capacity to deal with negative emotions.
3. When it overflows, Puella Magi don't actually die. They become Witches.
4. The mechanic for Grief Seed use is that Grief gets offloaded onto the Grief Seed.
5. Puella Magi are primarily mages, with physical combat being rather beside the point. Heck, their weapons rely on magic for stopping power and, in ranged cases, ammo.

Given these, I'd make the following changes:

1. Instead of a Fighter subclass, have it be Warlock or Sorcerer. Warlock if you want the Incubator contract to be represented in-fluff, Sorcerer if you want to have most features be casting-oriented. It makes more sense, thematically, as Warlock and Sorcerer pick their archetype at first level. Paladin can be workable, if you are really obsessed with martial power as a thing, though Warlock works better for that if you really want to replicate the Puella Magi because they have Extra Attack as an invocation and an impossible to lose weapon as a Pact Boon. So you can have your gish pretty easily with a Warlock without locking the character into being a gish.

2. Instead of an Essence pool counting down, have a "stress meter" that counts up and forces a Wisdom or Charisma save with DC based on the pool if it passes a threshold based on your level and Charisma or Wisdom score. If the save fails some number of times in a row, the character dies, with fluff pointing towards reforming as a monster some number of days later. Maybe throw in a delay before they can be revived based on how high the DC was on death, representing the fact that their soul got screwed over and needs to burn off the nastiness it built up. Not an excuse to be hugely overpowered, but it makes the rest-reliance reduction a bit less problematic as going too far and dying has larger costs than usual. Reducing the pool can come from using particular abilities or long rests, with both as stuff in the subclass. Reducing rest dependence is important for making certain classes keep functioning when you don't follow the recommended encounters to rests schedule.

3. The pool, instead of just giving you bonuses to rolls, can substitute for spell slots at a rate that fills in for the issue of the game being balanced around painfully strict encounters per rest. Like, even at just 5 encounters per long rest, the normal casters start to fall to pieces at absurd paces. A Warlock facing three encounters per Short Rest is utterly screwed for spell slots, and thus damage. A relatively easy balancing factor for this would be to restrict it to the spells granted by the subclass, so you get to have some utility and staple spell options. Maybe be able to pick a spell you know otherwise at 10th level or so, so you can pick a staple spell outside of the subclass's mostly utility oriented list. Cure Wounds would be fitting, and would allow for unconventional choices for main healer. If you use a Warlock, then it gets quite silly in just how hard to put down they become.

4. Adding damage to any particular roll for damage enables gish choice further, as you can apply it to each separate instance of Eldritch Blast, each regular melee attack, each missile of Magic Missile or whatever multi-roll thing you have. It becomes a downright choice of how many times you use it each round with such staple abilities, based on how much damage you feel you need and how much you think you can afford to use.

[Scarfking]

That actually makes a lot of sense. Btw, i did know about becoming witches, i just didn't want to spoil the series. But i didn't know that they gained "greif" as opposed to losing magic. In the english dub, Mami said something along the lines of "And all the magic i used during the fight has been restored." After using a grief seed. Homura also said something like "You can't afford to be wasting magic like that!" When confronting Sayaka before she became a witch. She also said "But we also use small amounts of magic just to maintain our bodies." This really gave the impression they were losing magic as they used it rather than building up "grief". As for the "Mage" part, yes, they do use a lot of magic, but the primary way they fight is with their weapons (Madoka with the bow, Kyoko and her spear, Sayaka with the swords, Mami with muskets/ribbons, Homura being the exception, who stops time and uses guns/explosives).

Despite this, the changes you propose do make a lot of sense from a flavor perspective. I personally would still have a "Points you spend" system rather than a "building up stress" mechanic, simple because i find it easier and more consistent with the other classes (Ki points, spell slots, lay on hands, rage uses, etc), as well it seems to be more in line with canon. Though it's definitely changing to a warlock (I'm kicking myself for not thinking of warlocks- they literally make contracts with deities).

Concerning the idea of changing into a monster or something similar upon dying/running out, it would make sense flavor wise, but how would this interact with resurrection spells? If you revive them while the monster is alive, what happens? If you kill the monster and then revive them, do they return as the monster or the person? Thats why i changed it to making you super vulnerable instead of just killing you outright, not only because of the interactions with revival, but also, it would be extremely punishing if you did run out.

As for restoring points, instead of collecting greif seeds from killing enemies (Which implies an active killing spree, and few people want to play as an evil character), what about a unique spell? A 5-10 minute concentration spell that restores, say, half of your expended points, and can only be used a certain amount of times per rest.

I don't want to have these points substitute for spell slots, as that would infringe on Sorcerer territory.

Lastly, the point about increasing damage, this was an option i'd intended in the original system, thought i suppose i may not have made it clear enough. If i move it exclusively to damage rolls and not attack rolls, i think that would enable the original idea i had, where each point spent adds to the total, and you can spend as much as you want. Considering it's damage and not rolling to hit, there really isnt a "threshold" to reach (aside from 0 hp, but that's obtained by doing as much damage as possible), and pretty much nullifies Lalliman's earlier point about wasting points.

With all of this in mind, i could basically shoe-horn the first level ability into the Warlock's 1st level Patron ability, and focus on martial buffs with support/utility magic.