Favorite interesting historical armor? (and weapon and shield)

[danzibr]

In another thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?538015-Best-wood-to-use-for-armor) people were talking about armor made out of vines and paper and stuff. What's more, it was actually decent armor. This blew me away. I always thought cloth armor was the worst, then leather, then chain, then plate. Typical D&D stuff.

But man, vine armor, that's really interesting to me.

So I got to wondering... what other interesting historical armor is out there? I did some Googling but didn't come up with much.

And while I'm more interested in armor, I'd like to hear of shields too (and even weapons).

[The Ari-tificer]

) This isn't really historical, but if you were to weave a fabric out of spider silk (https://qz.com/708298/synthetic-spider-silk-could-be-the-biggest-technological-advance-in-clothing-since-nylon/) and then make armor out of said fabric it would be comparable to armor made out of steel, only stretchier and (duh) much lighter. People are currently working on synthetic spider silk.

[danzibr]

) This isn't really historical, but if you were to weave a fabric out of spider silk (https://qz.com/708298/synthetic-spider-silk-could-be-the-biggest-technological-advance-in-clothing-since-nylon/) and then make armor out of said fabric it would be comparable to armor made out of steel, only stretchier and (duh) much lighter. People are currently working on synthetic spider silk.
Whoa. That is a really cool idea.

[Fri]

I think people actually do wear silk armor in the past, but it's expensive and hard to make.

By the way, not sure if this count for your purpose, nor actually historical, but this I always like this bear hunting suit.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/5927038/this-siberian-bear-hunting-suit-from-the-1800s-turns-you-into-a-human-blowfish

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--YD2fhB5N--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/17t7wu3lneaq6jpg.jpg

Come at me, bear!

edit: And funny enough, I was thinking about old world war armors, and guess what's linked as related article?

https://io9.gizmodo.com/5917559/10-retro-body-armors-that-will-transform-you-into-an-old-school-iron-man

[Knaight]

In another thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?538015-Best-wood-to-use-for-armor) people were talking about armor made out of vines and paper and stuff. What's more, it was actually decent armor. This blew me away. I always thought cloth armor was the worst, then leather, then chain, then plate. Typical D&D stuff.

The D&D armor list is pretty ridiculous for a lot of reasons, one of which being the whole
textile-leather-chain-plate progression. Leather armor was pretty niche, and a lot of textile armors were largely better than leather armors anyways. Meanwhile mail straight up displaced any number of more plate based armors (though this was partially down to the transition from bronze to iron then steel), working better in many ways. It also stuck around to some extent through the era of plate dominance, although the higher class of plate armor was distinctly better.

As for more esoteric armors, there's a few places they tended to show up. Arctic cultures tended to have basically no metalworking, and a lot of very interesting work involving hide and bone cropped up instead. Mesoamerican cultures also didn't get heavily into metalworking with armor grade metals (although decorative work in gold and silver does show up in armor sometimes), and wood designs cropped up fairly often.

On the weapon side, take a look at clubs. They're often treated in fantasy works as extremely unsophisticated weapons where you basically just pick up a branch, and that's fundamentally not the case. There's a lot of carefully shaped clubs independently developed by a lot of different cultures, and then on top of that shaping beautiful decoration is also often common.

[Eldan]

Yeah, Cloth armor is decent to very good and stuck around for ages. Meanwhile, leather was rarely used for armor until pretty late. Normal leather isn't very good at it either, it has to be treated in specific ways.

[Xuc Xac]

My current favorite non-metallic weapon is the Hawaiian hoe leiomano, which means something like "canoe paddle with a necklace of shark teeth". It's a sword with a body of tropical hardwood like koa and an edge of embedded tiger shark teeth. It's similar to a Mesoamerican macuahuitl but less like a sharpened cricket bat and more like a serrated sword in its shape.

[Potato_Priest]

My current favorite non-metallic weapon is the Hawaiian hoe leiomano, which means something like "canoe paddle with a necklace of shark teeth". It's a sword with a body of tropical hardwood like koa and an edge of embedded tiger shark teeth. It's similar to a Mesoamerican macuahuitl but less like a sharpened cricket bat and more like a serrated sword in its shape.

My current favorite is the Haida war paddles, which were canoe paddles that with sharpened points and edges so that they could be used as spears.

[Brother Oni]

) This isn't really historical, but if you were to weave a fabric out of spider silk (https://qz.com/708298/synthetic-spider-silk-could-be-the-biggest-technological-advance-in-clothing-since-nylon/) and then make armor out of said fabric it would be comparable to armor made out of steel, only stretchier and (duh) much lighter. People are currently working on synthetic spider silk.

From what I'm reading, it would be comparable to kevlar, not steel armours. It can still be penetrated with a knife as it's a non-rigid armour; the Chinese and Mongols used to wear silk under their armour not for the additional protective capability, but so an arrow that penetrated could be safely removed without causing additional damage - the arrow would pull but not tear the silk as it entered the body, thus removing an arrow was simply a matter of teasingpulling the silk out gently.

An improved elastic capability wouldn't be useful against modern firearms as by the time it stopped the round, it would already be deep inside you, having already dealt all its damage (although it might stop or reduce internal fragmentation).

If you supplemented a synthetic spider silk vest with rigid plates, then all you basically done is substitute out the nylon for spider silk, with no appreciable boost in performance as the plates are still your primary protection. From your article, the military are looking into the properties of synthetic spider silk mainly because it doesn't melt when exposed to high temperatures, unlike nylon.

[The Ari-tificer]

From what I'm reading, it would be comparable to kevlar, not steel armours. It can still be penetrated with a knife as it's a non-rigid armour; the Chinese and Mongols used to wear silk under their armour not for the additional protective capability, but so an arrow that penetrated could be safely removed without causing additional damage - the arrow would pull but not tear the silk as it entered the body, thus removing an arrow was simply a matter of teasing/pulling the silk out gently.

An improved elastic capability wouldn't be useful against modern firearms as by the time it stopped the round, it would already be deep inside you, having already dealt all its damage (although it might stop or reduce internal fragmentation).

If you supplement a synthetic spider silk vest with rigid plates, then all you basically have done is substitute out the nylon for spider silk, with no appreciable boost in performance as the plates are still your primary protection. From your article, the military is looking into the properties of synthetic spider silk mainly because it doesn't melt when exposed to high temperatures, unlike nylon.

Actually, if you made armor from several layers of spider silk, by the time the bullet reached your body, it wouldn't cause more than a flesh wound. The flexibility isn't to help stop the round, but to be more comfortable and less cumbersome.

If you don't believe me, look here (https://www.seeker.com/snuggle-up-in-this-synthetic-spider-silk-coat-1770445072.html), here (https://www.seeker.com/body-armor-made-from-spider-silk-1765595936.html), and here (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/01/0114_050114_tv_spider_2.html).

You are right about the kevlar thing (http://theconversation.com/spider-silk-is-a-wonder-of-nature-but-its-not-stronger-than-steel-14879), though.

[Brother Oni]

Actually, if you made armor from several layers of spider silk, by the time the bullet reached your body, it wouldn't cause more than a flesh wound. The flexibility isn't to help stop the round, but to be more comfortable and less cumbersome.

If you don't believe me, look here (https://www.seeker.com/snuggle-up-in-this-synthetic-spider-silk-coat-1770445072.html), here (https://www.seeker.com/body-armor-made-from-spider-silk-1765595936.html), and here (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/01/0114_050114_tv_spider_2.html).

You are right about the kevlar thing (http://theconversation.com/spider-silk-is-a-wonder-of-nature-but-its-not-stronger-than-steel-14879), though.

According to your second link, the Rajamangala Institute of Technology made a 16 layer silk bullet proof vest that could stop a 9 mm round.
A Class II vest intended to stop most 9mm rounds is made of ~21 layers of Kevlar 29 on average, making it ~12.6 mm thick. I'm completely failing to find a thickness for a grade of silk, but assuming it's equivalent to Kevlar 29, it would be 9.6mm thick, so based on that assumption and if spider silk is equivalent to 'normal' silk, I'd agree that it's more comfortable.

However a Class II vest isn't rated for knives thus a 9.6mm thick silk vest still wouldn't be either; a 1.5 - 2mm thick rigid steel cuirass will definitely stop a knife, so I still find your original statement that a spider silk vest would be comparable to steel armour is dubious at best. Steel armour and Kevlar are intended to stop different threats, which is the hyperbole that I'm objecting to.

[Knaight]

Reading those articles suggests that the term "elasticity" is being used wrong. Every time it gets used they seem to be referring to tensile strength, and in the case of the National Geographic article they outright quote a scientist using the term "tensile strength" then paraphrase with the term "elasticity".

This leaves a situation where the armor is going to do jack-all against knives, and where while it is less likely to break upon getting shot it still needs some rigidity to deal with bullets. There's also a distinct lack of mention of high caliber rounds, probably because it's still pretty useless for that.

[Dienekes]

I don't know what it is about it exactly, but I love coat of plates and brigandine style armors.

That whole transitional period to get to true full plate harnesses is just fascinating. Also one of the few times the armor actually was leather. I mean, a leather cover overtop the steel plates. But yeah, leather, actually used, correctly for once. It's awesome.

Also fun, the Art Institute of Chicago has this one infantry harness that I think looks great. Believed to have been worn by a mid-ranking Landsknecht. It was a mass produced armor so it was made to be adjustable to whoever bought it, but it still had some of the Gothic design on it to make it fashionable (because Landsknecht loved their gaudy fashion). It is also believed to have been painted at one point, but unfortunately the paint has since been scrubbed off.

For helmets, I'm pretty boring though. I think closed helms and armets look so neat.

As to weapons I kind of like them all. But I think the ones I'm most interested in are polearms, halberd, pollaxes, and spears. They were such fundamental weapons but for some reason everyone focuses on swords in fiction. Which is a pity, in my mind. I love me some good fantasy and fiction, but I think if you get a good choreographer who knows his weapons we could see fight scenes with amazing combinations of weapons to showcase who fascinating and deadly they all were.

[Vinyadan]

Large shields with lots of paint on them. There is a preserved Roman tower shield from Dura Europos that looks awesome. Many pavise shields also were carefully painted, often with images of saints or warriors holding a shield.