[3.5] Build Help; Optimizing a Psiforged Shaper

[Nautilust]

I think I finally found a build that my Gm will approve of. I am going to play a Psiforged (Warforged) Shaper (Psion)

CN Psiforged Shaper 4

Array: 16/15/14/12/10/10

Str 14/Dex 12/Con 17/Int 17/Wis 08/Cha 08

Feats
1st: Psiforged Body
Extra: Psicrystal Affinity
3rd:?

How can I best use Astral Construct?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Astral Construct is a pretty straightforward power: you manifest the biggest one you can, pick the relevant menu abilities (Trip is probably the best Menu U ability, though you might want Fly or Cleave on occasion). Complete Psionic introduced the new limit that you can only manifest one at a time, which is unfortunate. If you want to make them even better, the Boost Construct feat lets you give them, basically, twice as many special features, which is real nice. There's a pretty sweet Shaper ACF that lets you expend your focus to Quicken the power, but since it's from an online article (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070411a)I doubt your DM will allow it. If you're stuck with the CPsi nerf, the Ectopic Adept is a pretty neat Astral Construct-based class.

You might want to consider swapping that Str and Wis. Str doesn't do much unless you're going for a gishy build, but 14 Wis lets you qualify for Psionic Meditation, AKA "the only way to use metapsionic feats more than once in a fight."

Also, fun story: Psicrystals (probably) get feats, since unlike familiars their monster entry mentions that they have hit dice equal to their master's level. Hidden Talent (anything that works well without augmentation... Entangling Ectoplasm, for instance, or Matter Agitation) + Psionic Talent is a lovely combo. Mindsight. Any psionic feat you want, when combined with the Feat Leach power.

Otherwise, feat thoughts...

It might be worth spending a first level feat on Adamantine Body-- Psions don't suffer from arcane spell failure, so the only thing standing between you and platemail (or pseudo-platemail) is proficiency.
Psicrystal Containment lets your buddy hold a Psionic Focus for you.
Linked Power is one of the most brokenly-good bits of action economy out there, even if you don't combine it with Synchronicity to get an extra standard action each turn. (Pro tip: Don't do that, your DM will kill you). Great self-buffing
Track lets you easily hop into the Slayer PrC, if gishing is your thing.
Metapower is good if you've got a workhorse power/metapower combo. It makes something like Extend or Empower effectively free...


As for standout powers...

Astral Construct, of course.
Psionic Minor Creation is fantastic. Pro tip: make poisons with it.
Entangling Ectoplasm is an amazing debuff.
Vigor can give you huge hit point boosts. If you want to get really silly, share it with your Psicrystal and use Share Pain; you can effectively double the boost that way.
Crystalstorm is murderously effective at killing single targets.
Amethyst Burst and Energy Stun are also both good offensive blasts.
Control Sound is fun
Psychic Scimitar is a great gish-power. On the downside, no Str to damage. On the upside, it's a sword that targets touch AC; you can Power Attack to your heart's content.

[Nifft]

Psiforged Body is terrible. Don't take it. Getting +1 power point (and a bad magic item) for a feat is a poor trade.

Like Grod suggested, Adamantine Body is much better for you -- especially with 12 Dexterity.

L1: Adamantine Body, Psicrystal Affinity (bonus)
L3: Power Attack

If you have 14 Strength, you should benefit from it. As mentioned above, Power Attack works great with Psychic Scimitar, and with 14 Str you can get +4 damage (since your BAB is +2).


With 8 Wisdom, you're not going to be taking Psychic Meditation. That's fine. It's a great feat but it's not necessary. Without Psychic Meditation, you should avoid feats that cost your Psionic Focus, and that includes Metapsionic Feats.

Instead, spend your feats on stuff that works if you maintain your Psionic Focus, stuff that benefits your race, and Expanded Knowledge for powers from other classes & disciplines.


The thing that looks like a lost opportunity to me is that your 3 discipline skills all use Charisma, and you have no Charisma. That's not the worst thing in the world -- you can build a great character while ignoring UMD & Bluff -- but it's something to notice.


Powers that work well with Intelligence skills include Call To Mind (re-roll a failed Knowledge check with an extra +4). Since most of your skill points might go to Knowledge skills, it's a power to consider.


Regarding Astral Construct, it's not great at level 4. You want level 4 Astral Constructs (or better yet level 5+). I mean, try them out, but be prepared for disappointment until you hit the bigger, beefier constructs.

[Nautilust]

Some notes have been taken from both of you. Take Adamantine Body for sure.
Should I switch Str and Wis or not, I was planning on playing a gishy build but i also don't want to lose out on metapsionics if they are going to be that big a power difference?
Could I specialize a little bit in my natural Slam attacks since they're about equal to the shortspears I was going to use except you can't throw them?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Some notes have been taken from both of you. Take Adamantine Body for sure.
Should I switch Str and Wis or not, I was planning on playing a gishy build but i also don't want to lose out on metapsionics if they are going to be that big a power difference?
Eh, you'll be fine, especially for a gish-type build. (Illithid) Slayer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm)is what you should be looking at, but it's dead-easy to qualify for. 9/10 advancement, full BAB, and a couple useful class features. Also gives armor and martial weapon proficiencies, which is a nice touch.


Could I specialize a little bit in my natural Slam attacks since they're about equal to the shortspears I was going to use except you can't throw them?
Shouldn't be too difficult. You can use Hidden Talent and/or Expanded Knowledge to steal some stuff off the PsyWar list-- Metaphysical Claw, Dissolving Touch, Power Claws, that sort of thing.

[Nifft]

Some notes have been taken from both of you. Take Adamantine Body for sure.
Should I switch Str and Wis or not, I was planning on playing a gishy build but i also don't want to lose out on metapsionics if they are going to be that big a power difference?
Could I specialize a little bit in my natural Slam attacks since they're about equal to the shortspears I was going to use except you can't throw them?

It's not that big a power difference. You just pick a small number of powers that make you Gish-y, like Psychic Scimitar, and also be sure to pick up Share Pain + Vigor so you can tank damage.

Mostly you're still a primary spellcaster.

Even with a low Strength, you'll want something to do in melee combat, since melee will happen even if you try to avoid it. You just won't spend as much time there since you won't jump in voluntarily.

== == ==

If you do switch your Str <-> Wis, then you want to figure out what to do with your Psionic focus.

- Metapsionic feats
- Psionic feats (like Psionic Shot or Inquisitor or Psycarnum Infusion)

[Nautilust]

As a Warforged I know my natural armor can be enchanted, how about your natural attacks?

[Nautilust]

So you don't get the benefit of multiple attacks with a slam and it only deals 1d4 damage.
Shortspear might actually be better

[ExLibrisMortis]

The constructor (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625b) prestige class is amazing for astral construct-focused shapers.

[Nautilust]

Is it in a book? It'd be cool but all i've seen is the web version and the Gm only allows things that are in Print, including errata, and even if it's from WotC.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Is it in a book? It'd be cool but all i've seen is the web version and the Gm only allows things that are in Print, including errata, and even if it's from WotC.
Oh, right, that was in another of your threads. Sorry, I don't always keep track of who's who, and just look at the avatar :smalltongue:. No, it's sadly not in a book, and whatever you do, don't take the horrible Ectopic Adept in CPsi. You literally need more Craft (sculpting) ranks than you can afford to use the class features (assuming you boost your ML a little, which you should).

[Nautilust]

I'm thinking about taking the Slayer PrC or just staying straight Shaper

[Grod_The_Giant]

So you don't get the benefit of multiple attacks with a slam and it only deals 1d4 damage.
Shortspear might actually be better
Or a full spear; get those tasty two-handed bonuses. Or grab Expanded Knowledge (Claws of the Beast) or something.


I'm thinking about taking the Slayer PrC or just staying straight Shaper
Slayer would be good for gishing; straight Shaper would be (marginally) better at manifesting.

[Nautilust]

Psions are not proficient with the Full Spear

[Grod_The_Giant]

Psions are not proficient with the Full Spear
The normal, two-handed-but-not-Reach spear, I mean, sorry. Though the Longspear might actually be a better choice, since you have your slam to threaten up close.

[Nautilust]

Psions don't have Simple Weapon proficiency they have a hand full of weapons they get a proficiency with. Spear is not one of them or i would be using it.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Psions don't have Simple Weapon proficiency they have a hand full of weapons they get a proficiency with. Spear is not one of them or i would be using it.
Wait, really?

...

Huh. You're right. That's mildly irritating.

[Nautilust]

I'm thinking about switching to Human and dipping a level of Fighter to increase my armor and weapon access.
Then going Illithid Slayer when I get the Chance.

For equipment I'm thinking Full-Plate Armor and Tower Shield with a Longsword.

What's the best discipline for a Psion Gish?

[Grod_The_Giant]

I'm thinking about switching to Human and dipping a level of Fighter to increase my armor and weapon access.
Then going Illithid Slayer when I get the Chance.

For equipment I'm thinking Full-Plate Armor and Tower Shield with a Longsword.

What's the best discipline for a Psion Gish?
Probably Egotist? The big attractions there are probably Hustle (take an extra move action!) and Metamorphasis (the psionic Polymorph). But Thicken Skin isn't bad for buffing AC, Animal Affinity is kind of nice. Expanded Knowledge will also be a godsent for you to steal stuff off the Psychic Warrior list-- Expansion is one of the best gish-powers in the game, for instance.

Of course, if you want a heavy-duty gish, Psychic Warrior and Ardent both do pretty good jobs.

[Nautilust]

I would definitly do Ardent if my GM would allow me to change the Mantles. But he won't so Ardent is out.

My goal is 9th level powers and a +16 attack bonus

[Nifft]

My recommendation is usually Ranger 1 / Psion 6 / Slayer ++

The skill points & wand access from Ranger is great, and you need Track to enter Slayer so that's equivalent to a Fighter bonus feat... except better, because you get a general feat instead of a Fighter bonus feat.

Fighter is pretty bad in comparison, unless you need heavy armor, and I think you don't.

[Nautilust]

Ranger it might be then.


It's looking like +15 at level 20. 2 levels of ranger maybe. i can't dip anymore than that or i'll lose 9th level powers

[MaxiDuRaritry]

How about wielding a sand (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?444154-MM3-Sand-Blaster-Exotic-Weapon-Optimization)blaster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?415149-Sand-Blaster-MM3)? Just wield a Small weapon* (and small ammo) to reduce weight, and pump your Con as high as you reasonably can.



*You won't have to worry about nonproficiency penalties OR wrong-weapon-size penalties, since you won't be making attack rolls.

[Nautilust]

Not a bad idea, but that's exactly the kind of stuff i'm trying to avoid right now to garner a little trust with the GM.

[Nifft]

Ranger it might be then.

It's looking like +15 at level 20. 2 levels of ranger maybe. i can't dip anymore than that or i'll lose 9th level powers

Don't finish with Ranger or Psion, take something like Sanctified Mind (Lords of Madness) or Uncanny Trickster (Complete Scoundrel) for your last ~3 levels.

Ranger 1 / Psion 6 / Slayer 10 / ___prc___ 3

[Nautilust]

I was thinking about dipping that second level of ranger to get Two-Weapon Fighting. Plus I'd like to keep this build simple at 3 classes if possible. I was thinking Ranger 2/Psion 8/Illithid Slayer 10.

However that is sound advice that I will probably go with.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I was thinking about dipping that second level of ranger to get Two-Weapon Fighting. Plus I'd like to keep this build simple at 3 classes if possible. I was thinking Ranger 2/Psion 8/Illithid Slayer 10.

However that is sound advice that I will probably go with.If you want TWF, grab some gloves of the balanced hand, from the MIC. They're pretty cheap and don't waste one of your precious levels.

[ATHATH]

Don't finish with Ranger or Psion, take something like Sanctified Mind (Lords of Madness) or Uncanny Trickster (Complete Scoundrel) for your last ~3 levels.

Ranger 1 / Psion 6 / Slayer 10 / ___prc___ 3
Why do you need the Ranger dip? Can't you just take the Track feat and save an ML?

[Nautilust]

I'll see if I can grab a pair

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I'll see if I can grab a pairhttps://i.pinimg.com/736x/f1/2d/01/f12d01f97d13207582d6962651aee4e5--quick-meme-sterling-archer.jpg

Also, there're plenty of magic items that grant Track, as well. Though a level in ranger is useful, if only to allow you to use wands of cure light wounds with no issues.

[Nautilust]

Because it adds to BAB and gives Track. Sure you could take Track as a feat. There's probably all kinds of ways to optimize this build but my GM is already weary about me and the builds i've presented so I'm trying to go with something simple that will get the job done at this point.

Also I kinda have to finish this character soon so I can send it to my GM by mid-day tomorrow

[Nautilust]

Okay SO it looks like my I get 4 Feat Selections and Track

Human:?
1st:Psicrystal Affinity
Psion:?
Track
3rd:?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If you're wanting to use astral construct and psionic minor creation in an efficient and timely manner, you'll want to take Linked Power, from Complete Psionic. Read the feat over, look over various threads about it, and make sure you understand how it works. Then take either Psionic Meditation or Psicrystal Containment so you can use Linked Power more than once per fight. Then in a few levels when you have another feat, take the other one.

Linked Power is not terribly difficult, but it's more complicated than, say, Maximize Power.

You'll also want Extend Power soon, because all of the shaper's best powers are duration-based.

[Nautilust]

I'm playing an egoist not a shaper, at the moment.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I'm playing an egoist not a shaper, at the moment.Well, given that basically all of the egoist's powers are duration-based, Extend Power is just as important. Also, Linked Power was practically made for self-buffing, so having it and the other feats works just as well as with a shaper.

[Nautilust]

So I'm thinking,

Human:Improved Initiative
1st:Psicrystal Affinity
Psion:Extend Power
Track
3rd:Linked Power

[MaxiDuRaritry]

So I'm thinking,

Human:Improved Initiative
1st:Psicrystal Affinity
Psion:Extend Power
Track
3rd:Linked PowerIf you use your psicrystal to boost your initiative as well, that's a nice, fat +6 without Dexterity. Not bad at all.

Just make sure to Extend your longer duration powers (1 min/lvl+) outside of combat and use Linked Power either for multiple short-duration manifestations (generally 1 round/lvl or less) during a fight or to link a short-manifesting time power to one with a long manifesting time. Bonus points if you Link a secondary power to one that has a swift or immediate action manifesting time (such as catfall or grip of iron).

[Nautilust]

Could some body break down use of Linked Power, and what I as an Egoist can do with it?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Could some body break down use of Linked Power, and what I as an Egoist can do with it?You manifest Power A, Linked to Power B. A goes off as soon as you finish manifesting it, as normal, and B comes online at the very beginning of the next round, on the same target as A (unless B can't have the same target as A, in which case you choose its target normally). Add the costs of the two powers together to get the total cost for the manifestation.

That's pretty much it.

As far as what you can do with it, it potentially doubles the number of powers you can manifest in a round, though you don't get the benefits of the second power until next round. Since egoists buff a lot, I'd use it to halve the number of rounds spent buffing, or make strategic use of swift and immediate action powers to buff without messing up your attack routines.

[edit] And any power with a really long manifestation time should go in as Power B, since you won't have to worry about its manifestation time since it goes off next round regardless.

[Nautilust]

That makes sense. I assume Extend works similarly, but it extends durations instead of helping with action economy.

Do all characters get extra languages from their intelligence bonus or just Druids,Wizards,and the like?

I'm having trouble coming up with equipment to buy. So far I have a chain shirt, longsword, shortsword, light mace, and Heavy Mace. What to spend gold on next? I have 5,258 gp left (I know I need a cold weather outfit but i think that can come free as the clothes off your back?)

[MaxiDuRaritry]

That makes sense. I assume Extend works similarly, but it extends durations instead of helping with action economy.Yep, which also helps with the action economy because you don't have to buff as much during fights. It also saves on pp expenditures in the long run, because you won't have to manifest the same powers every fight.


Do all characters get extra languages from their intelligence bonus or just Druids,Wizards,and the like?Everyone does.


I'm having trouble coming up with equipment to buy. So far I have a chain shirt, longsword, shortsword, light mace, and Heavy Mace. What to spend gold on next? I have 5,258 gp left (I know I need a cold weather outfit but i think that can come free as the clothes off your back?)Buy some 1st level power stones of powers you don't know. They're cheap, and according to CPsi, you can use your own power points to manifest the powers in a power stone. It flushes the stone as normal, but you manifest the power at your own manifester level and with all the normal augments. This is great for utility powers you don't manifest very often but want to have around anyway.

You'll probably want a ring of sustenance, as well. Always great to not need food or water, and (despite what some naysayers say), it lets you refresh your power points after 2 hours of rest (as that's one of the benefits of 8 hours of rest that the ring gives you, which they ignore for some reason). You may also consider a Heward's fortifying bedroll. Explicitly allows you to refresh spells after 1 hour of rest every other day.

Alternatively, a Heward's handy haversack is always useful.

[edit] Oh! One other thing that I forgot to mention about psionics: after 8 hours of rest, regaining all of your power points for the day requires a single full-round of concentrated meditation, instead of meditating or studying or praying for a full hour.

[Nautilust]

That's one Heward's Fortifying Bedroll and one Heward's Handy Haversack. That leaves 258 gold for me to buy regula equipment. What should I consider.

[Forumlurker]

Do note that the character in question is a warforged, and thus does not need food, water, or sleep (you still need 8 hours of uninterrupted peace to refill your daily PP allowance), nor does it care about the environment.
Edit: at least it started out as one. I'm not quite so sure any more.

Regarding the character build, my first thought was constructor, though that is unfortunately off the table, which is a shame, since the Mind's Eye is first party after all. But given the current form, an Egoist Slayer does seem like a decent idea. I'd personally recommend swapping out Improved Initiative for something that will cover for your lost ML. The Slayer that I built recently looked something like this
-Human Shaper 1/Warblade 4/Slayer 10
Feats:
Lvl1: Overchannel
Lvl1(Human:) Talented
Lvl1(Flaw): Power Attack
Lvl1(Psion): (open feat)
Lvl3: Track
Lvl6: Practiced Manifester
Lvl9: Boost Construct
Lvl12: Improved Sunder
Lvl15: Combat Brute

This particular build is focused on melee first, and manifesting second. Practiced Manifester and Overchannel+Talented allow him to start combat by pulling in a big Astral Construct, and then charging into battle. This doesn't seem to be your focus, so you probably won't want the quick entry

a later entry with more focus on casting would look something like:
-Human Shaper 1/Ranger 2/Shaper 5/Slayer 10
Feats:
Lvl1: Overchannel
Lvl1(Human): Overchannel
Lvl1(Psion): Talented
Lvl1(Flaw): Psicrystal Affinity
Lvl3: Practiced Manifester
Lvl6: Psicrystal Containment
Lvl7(Psion): Psionic Meditation (presuming you have the requisite stats)
Lvl9: Linked Power
Lvl12: Improved Sunder
Lvl15: Combat Brute


The pressing question is this: What does your party need the most? Do they lack a good melee bruiser, or would a full caster be of more help to them? What does your current party composition look like?

[Nautilust]

Flaws aren't allowed. The party is 3 casters (sorcerer,shaman(doubles as healer),and a wizard), 1 ranged (gunslinger), 1 tanky melee (cleric of kord), 1 stealthy melee (rogue), and my Gish and 1 undecided.

I'm pretty happy with my feats as they are (mainly cause i don't want to have to go back and change things on the character sheet.) But i'm open to suggestions of where to go from there.

[Nautilust]

As far as power's go i'm thinking..

Energy Ray
Precognition, Defensive
Precognition, Offensive
Prescience, Offensive
and Vigor

[Forumlurker]

Flaws aren't allowed. The party is 3 casters (sorcerer,shaman(doubles as healer),and a wizard), 1 ranged (gunslinger), 1 tanky melee (cleric of kord), 1 stealthy melee (rogue), and my Gish and 1 undecided.

I'm pretty happy with my feats as they are (mainly cause i don't want to have to go back and change things on the character sheet.) But i'm open to suggestions of where to go from there.
Right, full casting is not at all mandatory then. Based on that and this post

So I'm thinking,

Human:Improved Initiative
1st:Psicrystal Affinity
Psion:Extend Power
Track
3rd:Linked Power

you appear to be getting Track as a completely free feat. That's nice, as it negates the need for a flaw anyway. Looking at these feats, I'd suggest the Warblade variant posted above. Your biggest hurdle to entering Slayer is your BAB, and since you don't need Ranger for free Track, Warblade is a much more attractive option to solving that problem. If you actually want to use those Metapsionics, then you definitely need Psionic Mediation somewhere. Of course, if you still want to play around with Astral Constructs, then you will need an Expanded Knowledge to get it. Irritatingly, the earliest you can do that is level 9. (you don't unlock second level powers until level 7) Of course, the easiest way around this is to take Hidden Talent in the place of Improved Initiative. If you do that, then a Practiced Manifester at level 6 and Psionic Meditation at level 9 brings you up to full effectiveness. From there, just take combat feats as you please (Power Attack, Combat Brute and the like).

Seeing as you're starting at a lower level, it would probably be a good idea to drop Extend Power until later in favor of taking Psionic Mediation now and actually being able to use Linked Power more than once per fight.

Personally, I'd rearrange the feats like so to bring the build online a bit sooner
Lvl1: Hidden Talent (Astral Construct)
Lvl1(Human): Psionic Meditation
Lvl1(Psion): Psicrystal Affinity
(Bonus): Track
Lvl3: Power Attack
Lvl6: Practiced Manifester

At these levels you're just a normal warrior type. Warblade gives you some decent combat options, so you should be able to hold your own

Lvl9: Linked power
Lvl12: Boost Consruct

At these levels the build starts to shine. Your manifesting finally starts to come online starting at level 7, and with them your combat effectiveness drastically increases, as you can now afford to use your buffs more often, and when a fight looks tough you can bring in a friend to take some hits and help you out in the melee.

[Nautilust]

Astral Construct isn't really important anymore. As far as going warblade goes my GM doesn't really trust stuff he doesn't know, so i'm trying to make a build that's easy for him to understand.

The free Track comes from the 1st level of Ranger. At the moment I'm Ranger 2/Egoist 2 adding Slayer i'm losing 3 manifester levels but I still gain the ability to manifest 9th level powers. Practiced Manifester is going to be a good gain.

[Grod_The_Giant]

So I'm thinking,

Human:Improved Initiative
1st:Psicrystal Affinity
Psion:Extend Power
Track
3rd:Linked Power
You can't take Psicrystal Affinity at 1st; the feat requires ML 1. You could take it at 3 instead, with your first Psion bonus feat. Metapower feats, like Extend and Linked, can be taken without any manifesting ability, so you can grab those at 1st instead. I'd also suggest dropping Improved Initiative, which feels kinda "just because" here. Hidden Talent (if allowed) for Astral Construct, Psychic Whip (Secrets of Sarlona), Bite of the Wolf or Expansion would probably be a more interesting choice.

So, something like
Human: Linked Power
1st: Hidden Talent
1b (Ranger 1): Track
2b (Ranger 2): Two-Weapon Fighting
3: Extend Power
3b (Psion 1): Psicrystal Affinity

-------


As far as power's go i'm thinking..

Energy Ray
Precognition, Defensive
Precognition, Offensive
Prescience, Offensive
and Vigor

I'm not a huge fan of the Precognition power line. Force Screen is probably better for defense, if you're looking at TWF-- it's the same duration, and the bonus is much larger. For the Offensive version... to be honest, I'd probably swap it for something else entirely; a utility power like Synesthete or Sense Link, or at least an alternate-offense like Entangling Ectoplasm or Grease. Prescience isn't bad with TWF, though.

[Nautilust]

I went Psion 1/Ranger 2/Psion 1 to swing the feat progression i came up with

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Skip the 2nd level of ranger. It just eats up manifester levels in exchange for a feat that can be easily gotten via magic items anyway. (Those gloves, for instance, are pretty cheap. As is the mask of the tiger [MIC] for Track, oddly enough.)

As for the rest of your money, spend it on 1st level power stones. Look through the list of powers, find powers you'll want occasionally but not all the time, and spend your remaining gp on them.

[Nifft]

I went Psion 1/Ranger 2/Psion 1 to swing the feat progression i came up with

Taking Ranger at level 1 is really nice for (6+Int)x4 skill points.

Also: if you were a Warforged, you wouldn't need to worry about your human bonus feat. :)

L1: Ranger 1
- Track (bonus)
- Adamantine Body

L2: Psion 1
- Psicrystal Affinity (bonus)

L3: Psion 2
- Linked Power / Extend Power / whatever

L4: Psion 3

L5: Psion 4

L6: Psion 5
- level feat: Psionic Meditation
- bonus feat: ____

L7: Psion 6

L8: Slayer 1



If you were a Human or Changeling, you might want Able Learner as a level 1 feat, because that allows you to keep adding points to your nice Ranger skills.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Also keep in mind that an Adamantine Body warforged can't make use of the ranger's combat style, because that requires you not to wear medium or heavy armour. The second ranger level just isn't that good. Meanwhile, Sanctified Mind is very flavourful for an Illithid Slayer.

[Nautilust]

Well the GM said that Illithid SLayer might not work with his campaign. And i didn't really find the Sanctified Mind class that great.

[Nifft]

Well the GM said that Illithid SLayer might not work with his campaign. And i didn't really find the Sanctified Mind class that great.

Cool, so you're just a vanilla Psion.

That's frankly STRONGER than being a Psi Gish, so no big loss.

What race do you want? Warforged is awesome for a single-class Psion, but Human or Elan might be cool too.

[Nautilust]

Either Human or Elan (leaning towards Elan) if I go Telepath. Or Warforged if I go Shaper.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Shaper is by far my favorite. With a decent power and skill and feat selection, you will never lack for something to do no matter what is thrown at you.

[Nautilust]

They're both going to be kinda disappointing because I can't take the respective prestige classes I would go in. I really like the idea of the telepath, and i might be able to maake a decent face with their skill set if i'm thinking right. Shaper has more variety, but i don't think the skills are THAT impressive, but it would be easy for me to write backstory on a Warforged Shaper. They both are pretty strong decisions I think.

[Nautilust]

Sadly Elans take a hit to Cha, but i think that i'll be able to manage a 14. Which isn't terrible.

For Telepath Elan
Str10/Dex10/Con12/Int16/Wis14/Cha14

For Shaper Warforged
Str10/Dex10/Con16/Int16/Wis13/Cha10

That's including Racial Adjustments

[Grod_The_Giant]

They're both going to be kinda disappointing because I can't take the respective prestige classes I would go in. I really like the idea of the telepath, and i might be able to maake a decent face with their skill set if i'm thinking right. Shaper has more variety, but i don't think the skills are THAT impressive, but it would be easy for me to write backstory on a Warforged Shaper. They both are pretty strong decisions I think.
Yup! Neither really needs a PrC to be good. Honestly, most psionic PrCs aren't much stronger than the base class; they were designed to have actual trade-offs. Except for Anarchic Initiate, I guess, which is an easy-to-enter chassis boost if nothing else.

Nymph's Kiss and Karmic Twin can both make it a bit easier to be the party face without needing Charisma. I'd honestly probably go Telepath over Shaper; it feels like there are more good powers in Telepathy than in Metacreativity, and it's easy enough to poach the ones that are around via Expanded Learning and the like.

[Nautilust]

Telepath it is.

So Elan Telepath

That gives me 3 feats

1st lvl: Psicrystal Affinity
Psion Extra: ?
3rd: ?

Or better yet, I get 12 feats what should I get?
1st:
Bonus Feat:
3rd:
Bonus Feat:
6th:
9th:
Bonus Feat:
12th:
15th:
Bonus Feat:
18th:
Bonus Feat:

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Telepath it is.

So Elan Telepath

That gives me 3 feats

1st lvl: Psicrystal Affinity
Psion Extra: ?
3rd: ?Since telepaths are incredibly reliant on saving throws, I'd take Ability Focus (Psionics) for a +2 to your DCs and the Expanded Knowledge feat for a multipurpose power you can use when telepathy can't be used directly, such as a buff power for your minions, or astral construct for a disposable meat shield, or psionic minor creation for disposable tools.

[edit] Elsewise, look at the elan-specific feats in CPsi. See if anything catches your fancy.

[Nautilust]

What book is ability focus in?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

What book is ability focus in?The Monster Manual or the SRD:


Ability Focus [General]
Choose one of the creature’s special attacks.

Prerequisite: Special attack.

Benefit: Add +2 to the DC for all saving throws against the special attack on which the creature focuses.

Special: A creature can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time the creature takes the feat it applies to a different special attack.

[Nautilust]

Is that legal?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Is that legal?Yep. Characters are creatures by necessity, and "Psionics" is listed as a special attack in various monster and character statblocks.

[Nifft]

Bad MaxiDuRaritry, bad! You know you're giving terrible advice to a new player. That's not okay.

@Nautilust - Ability Focus is intended for single, specific abilities like a poison bite or breath weapon or a ghoul's stench. Your DM will not allow it to work on every single power you have, and you'll look like a bad player for trying it.

=== === ===

There are legal ways to boost your save DCs:

+1 DC: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#psionicEndowment
+2 DC: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#greaterPsionicEndowment

For those to work regularly, you want Psionic Meditation, and thus 13 Wis: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#psionicMeditation

Your feats might look like:

L1: Psicrystal Affinity, Psionic Body
L3: Psionic Endowment
L5: Psionic Meditation
L6: Greater Psionic Endowment
L9: Expanded Knowledge (Metamorphosis)
L10: Metamorphic Transfer

Each of those feats also gives you +2 HP, so you're a bit beefier than the average 1d4 HD caster.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Is that legal?
No, your DM will absolutely (and probably rightfully) refuse.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Is that legal?
Nope :smalltongue:. If you really want to know why, there's a discussion between Maxi and myself starting here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22451849&postcount=8). The discussion is about Supernatural Transformation, but the arguments pro and contra Ability Focus (psionics) would run along the same lines.

[Gruftzwerg]

Could I specialize a little bit in my natural Slam attacks since they're about equal to the shortspears I was going to use except you can't throw them?

If you intend to invest into your Slam, I would go for the Beast Strike feat:

BS lets you add your Slam dmg on top of your Unarmed Strike dmg. This further enables extra attacks from high BAB (since you attack with US not with NA/Slam.

extra cheese with Necklace of Natural Attacks + Sizing:
size your Beast Strike (US + Slam dmg) up to colossal (-8 to hit).

[Nifft]

Beast Strike can be good, but it costs you 3 feats and the payoff only happens at higher levels -- plus you will need to invest in hitting to actually hit at those levels. Psion's poor BAB and low reward for Str means you probably won't use it unless you Metamorphosis into something beefier.

I'd suggest a one-feat investment in Shocking Fist (Player's Guide to Eberron) at level 6 instead. You get +1d4 electrical damage per HP you deal to yourself -- so, you manifest Vigor for 5 temp HP, your PsiCrystal gets 5 temp HP, and you spend 2 temp HP per attack for +2d4 damage, until you need to re-up your temp HP.

But you might get even better mileage out of powers like Painful Strike (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/painfulStrike.htm), which you can buy at character level 5 with your bonus feat (Expanded Knowledge). That power gets you +1d6 damage per attack, and with other feats or Metamorphosis you can get two+ attacks per round, and it lasts 1 round per level (or 2/level if you extend it).

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Okay, then. Cite RAW: How is Ability Focus (Psionics) in any way, shape, or form illegal? Even if you squint hard to try and disprove it, it still works; "Psionics" has a single special attack entry under monster and character stub entries, and a character is a creature, by definition. Ergo, it fits the definition with no problems whatsoever.

Rule Zero may apply or it may not. It's not my fault if a perfectly valid feat is fiated out by a particularly anal retentive DM.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Okay, then. Cite RAW: How is Ability Focus (Psionics) in any way, shape, or form illegal? Even if you squint hard to try and disprove it, it still works; "Psionics" has a single special attack entry under monster and character stub entries, and a character is a creature, by definition. Ergo, it fits the definition with no problems whatsoever.

Rule Zero may apply or it may not. It's not my fault if a perfectly valid feat is fiated out by a particularly anal retentive DM.
"Psionics" isn't an ability with a DC; it gives you access to individual powers do. Also,

Creatures with psionic powers are similar to creatures with racial spellcasting ability

A spellcasting creature is not actually a member of a class
The kind of "Spells" or "Psionic Powers" that appear in the "special attack" entry are not the same as class-based casting/manifesting.

Also, given how much trouble Nautilust has been having with getting builds approved, sketchy-RAW-unintended-cheese like Ability Focus (Spellcasting) is particularly useless.

[Nautilust]

Alright Guys my Gm and I had a talk and he admitted he was wrong about a few things and told me to play what I want. So It looks like i'm playing a Binder/Chameleon. Which is what I wanted to play.

[Nifft]

Alright Guys my Gm and I had a talk and he admitted he was wrong about a few things and told me to play what I want. So It looks like i'm playing a Binder/Chameleon. Which is what I wanted to play.

Heh, oh well.

Now you know psionics for next time.

[Nautilust]

Well he bought both the Psionics books and Magic of Incarnum cause he thought i was using them and I feel kinda guilty not. I asked him if he'd allow soul manifester so I could use all three of the books and he agreed.