Would a Goodberry satisfy a Giant?

[RacingBreca]

As the title implies, I'm curious how you imagine a Hill Giant would react to being offered Goodberry?

[suplee215]

He will smash the tiny man who offered him puny food if he is the typical hill giant. Bigger is better for hill giants, that is what they understand.

[Nifft]

As the title implies, I'm curious how you imagine a Hill Giant would react to being offered Goodberry?

Technically, the category "berry" includes both pumpkins and watermelons.

Cast goodberry on one of those, and any scientifically-minded giant ought to be satisfied.

[Slipperychicken]

I have no rules authority for this, but if it mattered, I'd say a goodberry is enough food for a medium-sized creature. Meaning a day's sustenance for a large creature would be 2 goodberries, a huge one would need 4, and a gargantuan one would need 8.

Since giants are huge creatures, I'd say it's approximately the nutritional value of a very small meal for them - probably the equivalent of 500 to 700 calories for a human. That said, it's still basically the equivalent to taking some kind of tiny nutrient pill; probably not the most satisfying meal ever.

As to the reaction, that's more a question of context than anything else. Also, giants are people; they're not all going to do exactly the same thing in all situations.

[lebefrei]

The goodberry as written sustains "a creature" for one day. A giant, a dragon, a tarrasque (it is believe only one of these creatures exists, MM) are all examples of creatures. Does it feel high magic and cheap to be sustained no matter your size for just a level 1 spell? How does hunger even exist in a D&D world? Why isn't there a whole industry around casting goodberry just to feed everyone? It uses mistletoe as a material component!

As a DM that runs Gritty Realism and tries to make resources matter, this spell is one of the most frustrating to deal with. Do I make it more complicated? Harder to cast, need more valuable resources, or what?

Specifically towards your question, let's say we don't want a goodberry cast by a medium creature to feed a huge giant. Well, what if that giant can cast goodberry, then? Does that goodberry feed the giant? Will it kill a medium creature from being overfed? Level 1 spell: cures world hunger. What a wonder.

[Contrast]

In terms of meeting their nutritional needs - on the one hand its magic, so sure why not. On the other hand, who the hell knows how magic works - DM gets to decide. Makes sense either way to me.

In terms of how a giant would react - I imagine your typical giant would react poorly unless you explained what it did. Even then unless its starving to death, giants don't typically strike me as the ascetic type. I imagine they quite enjoy eating and drinking and no amount of swallowing a tiny berry once a day competes with that.

More broadly Slipperychicken is right though. Giants are individuals too so *shrugs*


The goodberry as written sustains "a creature" for one day. A giant, a dragon, a tarrasque (it is believe only one of these creatures exists, MM) are all examples of creatures. Does it feel high magic and cheap to be sustained no matter your size for just a level 1 spell? How does hunger even exist in a D&D world? Why isn't there a whole industry around casting goodberry just to feed everyone? It uses mistletoe as a material component!

As a DM that runs Gritty Realism and tries to make resources matter, this spell is one of the most frustrating to deal with. Do I make it more complicated? Harder to cast, need more valuable resources, or what?

Specifically towards your question, let's say we don't want a goodberry cast by a medium creature to feed a huge giant. Well, what if that giant can cast goodberry, then? Does that goodberry feed the giant? Will it kill a medium creature from being overfed? Level 1 spell: cures world hunger. What a wonder.

If that's the type of campaign you're trying to run just let your players know you're removing the food element of the spell at the start of the game? Plus it only solves world hunger if there's only 10 people for each level 1 spell slot of someone with the spell who is prepared to forgo casting it, lives nearby and never wants to travel. Unless spellcasters are a dime a dozen in your setting, goodberry does nothing to impact large scale food supply issues. You can't even stockpile them.

[lebefrei]

If that's the type of campaign you're trying to run just let your players know you're removing the food element of the spell at the start of the game? Plus it only solves world hunger if there's only 10 people for each level 1 spell slot of someone with the spell who is prepared to forgo casting it, lives nearby and never wants to travel. Unless spellcasters are a dime a dozen in your setting, goodberry does nothing to impact large scale food supply issues. You can't even stockpile them.

I'm mostly joking about it solving world hunger, but I think it's too much of a "game" spell without any consideration of world building. To have a beginner druid or nature cleric never have to worry about feeding themselves again, nor their companions, just feels ridiculous to me.

As far as using the spell in my worlds go, using Gritty Realism actually makes it a much more valuable and precious tool as long as I really string my players out. Suddenly being able to conjure food occasionally actually matters when desperate, instead of just being able to do it nearly any time (long rests being much harder to come by, especially if adventuring)

[Contrast]

I'm mostly joking about it solving world hunger, but I think it's too much of a "game" spell without any consideration of world building. To have a beginner druid or nature cleric never have to worry about feeding themselves again, nor their companions, just feels ridiculous to me.

They can cure stab wounds with a touch or even just a glance, summon fire from their hands, call upon gods to bless their allies, infuse their mere words with sufficient power to hurt their enemies as much as a knife wound, instantly learn in any language...and being able to summon food is where your verisimilitude breaks? :smallconfused:

Seems a highly appropriate spell to me. Druids likely want to spend time alone in the wilderness mediating/communing, not scrabbling around for food. So they found a way to keep themselves alive in delicate and hostile environments without unbalancing the local ecosystem which might not be able to support them stripping all the edible plants and animals bare in the local area.

I would also point out that to a beginner druid, sacrificing one of their spell slots per day to summon breakfast is a pretty big deal (albeit that the HP gain is a reasonable use of the spell). It does start to get trivial after a few levels (though if you're using the gritty rest variant I'm not really sure its ever true that its trivial and certainly not until mid/late levels) but at that point they probably have enough money so they could stock up on an arbitrary amount of dried rations (a whole pack mule laden with them if necessary) in any game except one where you were specifically trying to restrict access to food.



As far as using the spell in my worlds go, using Gritty Realism actually makes it a much more valuable and precious tool as long as I really string my players out. Suddenly being able to conjure food occasionally actually matters when desperate, instead of just being able to do it nearly any time (long rests being much harder to come by, especially if adventuring)

Just using gritty realism seems enough of a nerf to the spell to me. If you don't like the players relying on it I would just play up that the berry is very bland to the taste and uncomfortably filling (edit - or I guess it could also make sense for it to leave you feeling hungry even if it was nutritionally complete - as I said in my previous post, it's magic, it works how the DM says it works :smallbiggrin:).

[ZorroGames]

The foreigner adventurer Druid got upset when my Chult native ranger said he wanted to hunt for game (dinosaur is sold in the marketplace at home) while travelling. “If my Goodberry isn’t good enough eat each day for you can eat your rations!” I plan to push that point in RP next game though my only response in character was, “I want dinosaur or at least some other meat,” though we would be hunting or starving if he had not started 3rd level when the rest of us were 1st. I bought a barrel in the Port and he “Creates Water” every day in it before we start travelling so we can wash up after drinking/filling waterskins so I appreciate his character but goodberry and water doesn’t sound emotionally/psychologically fulfilling for approaching three weeks in the jungle without foraging. As in my signature block says “Role Play over optimization (“gritty” play included in that.)”

[Slipperychicken]

Why isn't there a whole industry around casting goodberry just to feed everyone? It uses mistletoe as a material component!

Back in the day, when we had prices listed for spellcasting services, market forces meant it took 10gp to convince a magician to cast a level one spell for you. Compare that to a price of 0.1gp for a regular meal, or 0.03gp for a poor meal: Instead of paying a druid that money to cast goodberry to feed ten people for a day, you could just go to market and feed them for ten days, or a whole month if you really stretch it. Goodberry just can't compete against muggle farmers, even before you consider the issues of distribution and its shelf-life.

The non-monetary answer is that the implied default setting of D&D 5e does not have enough eligible spellcasters who consider it the best use of their time and talents. That sort of magic simply is not available on a scale to solve world hunger, whether because its users are uncommon enough to make it impractical, or its users see more valuable uses for their slots, or muggle food production drove prices low enough that spellcasters can't make a good living doing it.

[napoleon_in_rag]

Look at it from the Giant's perspective. Which would you rather eat: the goodberry or the human offering you the goodberry?

[ZorroGames]

As height increases at a doubling factor as a SWAG, mass would raise at a cubing factor I suspect.

3*2 for height, 3*3 (9) for mass and possibly appetite. DM hat on means going from human to giant the giant might need at least 3 and because he is a giant, want ALL of them. Plus the gluttony factor might make the giant into a giant food critic!

Just saying...

[No brains]

I think it's possible that the giant would be nutritionally satisfied, but still hungry. If it's a disciplined giant like a storm or fire giant, it will probably just deal with it. Neutral giants like cloud and stone might deal with it if they liked the people around them. Giant slobs like frost and hill would probably gorge on goodberries until they got gout or some other uncomfortable buildup.

[Naanomi]

I think it would be filling; but I don't think a hill giant specifically would stop eating when 'full'

[Temperjoke]

There's a difference between "sustain" and "satisfy". Sustain is the minimum amount of nutrition needed for survival, while satisfy is generally not feeling anymore hunger/thirst. So while you might not "need" more than a goodberry, you'd probably "want" a lot more than that. That's how I've always interpreted it.

[RacingBreca]

I'm loving the answers, Thanks.

This might be a really good time for this halfling character to test out their newly aquired "Way of Tranquility" Sanctuary effect along with the "step of the wind" dodge action.

Thanks, and keep the RP responses coming!

[Slipperychicken]

I think it's possible that the giant would be nutritionally satisfied, but still hungry. If it's a disciplined giant like a storm or fire giant, it will probably just deal with it. Neutral giants like cloud and stone might deal with it if they liked the people around them. Giant slobs like frost and hill would probably gorge on goodberries until they got gout or some other uncomfortable buildup.

Hunger is a sign of not getting enough nutrition, or at least not as much as your body expects. Maybe if the giant was trying to lose weight he'd be happy with it.

I still think it's more a question of context than anything else. If it's a survival situation, like where the caster and giant are stranded on a ship with no food, then that can change the reaction dramatically relative to offering a giant one while he's gorging on well-seasoned human limbs dipped in mammoth cheese.

[Deleted]

The goodberry as written sustains "a creature" for one day. A giant, a dragon, a tarrasque (it is believe only one of these creatures exists, MM) are all examples of creatures. Does it feel high magic and cheap to be sustained no matter your size for just a level 1 spell? How does hunger even exist in a D&D world? Why isn't there a whole industry around casting goodberry just to feed everyone? It uses mistletoe as a material component!

As a DM that runs Gritty Realism and tries to make resources matter, this spell is one of the most frustrating to deal with. Do I make it more complicated? Harder to cast, need more valuable resources, or what?

Specifically towards your question, let's say we don't want a goodberry cast by a medium creature to feed a huge giant. Well, what if that giant can cast goodberry, then? Does that goodberry feed the giant? Will it kill a medium creature from being overfed? Level 1 spell: cures world hunger. What a wonder.

Tippyverse is pretty much what would happen in just about any D&D world where magic is that easily accessible.

Mostly because in the base D&D world being magically inclined is like having a minimum wage job... Just try and you will easily be able to do that job.

An Int 8 and Wis 8 human can cast goodberry pretty damn well...

[Naanomi]

I disagree about tippyverse; it relies on the ability to make magic items, self-sustaining magic traps, and readily available magical teleportation... none are inherent to 5e. There would definetly be notable changes in a 'realistic' fantasy world, but tippyverse was built specifically on certain access that is far from universal in all settings

[fbelanger]

One Goodberry a day keeps the giant away!

[Slipperychicken]

I disagree about tippyverse; it relies on the ability to make magic items, self-sustaining magic traps, and readily available magical teleportation... none are inherent to 5e. There would definetly be notable changes in a 'realistic' fantasy world, but tippyverse was built specifically on certain access that is far from universal in all settings

This. The tippyverse relied on a combination of very highly-specific rules constructs to be feasible in 3.5. Most of those elements are not present in 5th edition, or even the vast majority of roleplaying games for that matter.

[No brains]

Hunger is a sign of not getting enough nutrition, or at least not as much as your body expects. Maybe if the giant was trying to lose weight he'd be happy with it.

I still think it's more a question of context than anything else. If it's a survival situation, like where the caster and giant are stranded on a ship with no food, then that can change the reaction dramatically relative to offering a giant one while he's gorging on well-seasoned human limbs dipped in mammoth cheese.

I thought that hunger was caused, at least in part, by not having something to fill one's stomach. Even if someone could get full nutrition from just one magic berry, their body would still expect more. Can people still be hungry if they fill up on malnourishing crap?

[Deleted]

I disagree about tippyverse; it relies on the ability to make magic items, self-sustaining magic traps, and readily available magical teleportation... none are inherent to 5e. There would definetly be notable changes in a 'realistic' fantasy world, but tippyverse was built specifically on certain access that is far from universal in all settings

You're completely wrong about them not being inherently part of the D&D world. Magic and magic items would bring about a Tippyverse. It may not be as extreme as 3e, but it is still there. When idiots can have phenomenal cosmic power then average and above average people will go above and beyond.

Magic items are in the base world, just as much as all the monsters in the Monater Manual. Just because a specific DM doesn't use something doesn't mean it isn't part of the base world.

The only thing keeping it from logically happening within the world, is hand waving.

[Beelzebubba]

Good question - I'd rule it takes more than one Goodberry for things that are bigger than 'humanoid character' sizes.

I'd probably go something geometric - Large is 3, Huge is 9, Gargantuan is 27.

Top of my head. Open to revision later.

[JackPhoenix]

Look at it from the Giant's perspective. Which would you rather eat: the goodberry or the human offering you the goodberry?

Both. Is that a trick question?


You're completely wrong about them not being inherently part of the D&D world. Magic and magic items would bring about a Tippyverse. It may not be as extreme as 3e, but it is still there. When idiots can have phenomenal cosmic power then average and above average people will go above and beyond.

Magic items are in the base world, just as much as all the monsters in the Monater Manual. Just because a specific DM doesn't use something doesn't mean it isn't part of the base world.

The only thing keeping it from logically happening within the world, is hand waving.

All right. Which spells and magic items from 5e would bring about Tippyverse? And remember, random commoners can't just decide to go to a wizard school to learn magic, PC classes are for PCs.

[M Placeholder]

In most D&D settings (with the exception of Birthright and Eberron), The only berries that would be eaten by the Hill Giant would be the humans dingleberries (if male) as the giant lowered the human snack into its maw.

[Contrast]

You're completely wrong about them not being inherently part of the D&D world. Magic and magic items would bring about a Tippyverse. It may not be as extreme as 3e, but it is still there. When idiots can have phenomenal cosmic power then average and above average people will go above and beyond.

Magic items are in the base world, just as much as all the monsters in the Monater Manual. Just because a specific DM doesn't use something doesn't mean it isn't part of the base world.

The only thing keeping it from logically happening within the world, is hand waving.

I personally disagree that the premises laid out in the Tippyverse would lead to the specific setting imagined in the Tippyverse but regardless implying that any level of magic would lead to that eventually is just silly. It's like saying the sun and a candle both emit light therefore the candle will eventually emit as much light as the sun. Sure both change things significantly compared to if there was no light at all but that doesn't change the fact that a candle is not the sun.

[Beleriphon]

I thought that hunger was caused, at least in part, by not having something to fill one's stomach. Even if someone could get full nutrition from just one magic berry, their body would still expect more. Can people still be hungry if they fill up on malnourishing crap?

Technically, depending on how fast such "food" passes through the body systems. It is entirely possible to never be hungry but also be severely malnourished.

[smcmike]

Hunger is a sign of not getting enough nutrition, or at least not as much as your body expects. Maybe if the giant was trying to lose weight he'd be happy with it.


Hill giants, at least, are driven by insatiable hunger. There is no “enough” food for them.

[Sigreid]

I'm with those that hold that sustained and satisfied are not the same thing. Goodberry will keep you alive, but not happy.

[Zanthy1]

Campaign idea. A city (perhaps floating) is a very strict military dictatorship. However, all the people tolerate it because of the government food funds, which utilize the goodberries to feed the population. Of course anyone who can cast this spell is kidnapped and forced to cast it to their limit, and mistletoe is one of the most sought after goods, of which there are tons of farms/plantations where most of the unskilled population is employed. No one is starving, no one is unemployed, everyone is safe, everyone gets what they need (not necessarily everything they want), at the cost of their freedom. Which, of course, isn't known to the masses.

[smcmike]

Campaign idea. A city (perhaps floating) is a very strict military dictatorship. However, all the people tolerate it because of the government food funds, which utilize the goodberries to feed the population. Of course anyone who can cast this spell is kidnapped and forced to cast it to their limit, and mistletoe is one of the most sought after goods, of which there are tons of farms/plantations where most of the unskilled population is employed. No one is starving, no one is unemployed, everyone is safe, everyone gets what they need (not necessarily everything they want), at the cost of their freedom. Which, of course, isn't known to the masses.

Using all of the unskilled labor to harvest mistletoe doesn’t make much sense. The mistletoe sprig is not consumed when you cast the spell, and even if it were, growing enough mistletoe to keep this scheme going wouldn’t take that much labor.

The real question is what you do with the excess labor once you solve the food problem. There aren’t any real-world examples of premodern civilizations with that sort of excess non-farming labor. I’m picturing something like Mad Max Fury Road. An insane warrior class, and a mass of people who serve no real purpose other than adulation of the leader and providing new warriors.

[Zanthy1]

Using all of the unskilled labor to harvest mistletoe doesn’t make much sense. The mistletoe sprig is not consumed when you cast the spell, and even if it were, growing enough mistletoe to keep this scheme going wouldn’t take that much labor.

The real question is what you do with the excess labor once you solve the food problem. There aren’t any real-world examples of premodern civilizations with that sort of excess non-farming labor. I’m picturing something like Mad Max Fury Road. An insane warrior class, and a mass of people who serve no real purpose other than adulation of the leader and providing new warriors.

Ah I forgot the mistletoe isn't consumed. An addendum then, with the food situation solved, the masses (would be farmers) are not unskilled laborers that would focus on building projects or military gains, or servants to the nobility.

Another option is have the floating city need a special mineral to remain floating, so mines on the surface world are huge and need miners and guards. Also throw in large amounts of energy needed, which can have cyclists or "rowers" working on. tons of menial tasks to complete in the name of the glorious City

[JackPhoenix]

Ah I forgot the mistletoe isn't consumed. An addendum then, with the food situation solved, the masses (would be farmers) are not unskilled laborers that would focus on building projects or military gains, or servants to the nobility.

Another option is have the floating city need a special mineral to remain floating, so mines on the surface world are huge and need miners and guards. Also throw in large amounts of energy needed, which can have cyclists or "rowers" working on. tons of menial tasks to complete in the name of the glorious City

So, either slave all the time for "free" food, or grow your own (actually tasty and varied) food and have plenty of free time? Sounds like pretty simple choice.

[Arkhios]

As the title implies, I'm curious how you imagine a Hill Giant would react to being offered Goodberry?

Of course. It's a spell and a Hill Giant is a fantastical creature! In a world with magic, anything is possible! :smallcool:

[Hrugner]

If the Giant actually ate the berry, he'd be satisfied as the spell says. Whether or not the giant trusted that the berry did anything, noticed it felt fed, or any of that other stuff would all depend on the giant and the situation.

[RacingBreca]

Update:

We played this scenario the other day, and I wanted to let you know how it was handled.

The Monk/ Druid came out from a bank of fog and addressed the Giants. They were skeptical at first, but very hungry and very discouraged by having nothing to bring back to their leader.

They each tasted a Goodberry and felt full.

The Druid gave them more to give to their leader, so that they wouldn’t get into trouble. Those extra goodberries never made it to the chief. The assumption is that they ate the Goodberries because they are glutonous pigs with no executive function do to their limited pre-frontal cortex.

Thanks for all the posts!