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noce
2017-10-08, 04:45 AM
Hi guys!
I want you hear your opinion about which feats do you like for their flavour rather than power.

As an example, Divine Metamagic is powerful but it hasn't much flavour, while Spell Thematics is quite weak but I truly like the roleplaying options it gives.

Other feats that I find particularly flavourful are: Magic of the Land, Three Mountains, Born of the Three Thunders, Investigate, Urban Tracking, Ocular Spell...

They change your (role)playstyle in a deeper way than other feats, at the point that they're often more flavourful than class features.


So, not counting power, which feats do you like for their flavour?

Inevitability
2017-10-08, 05:03 AM
'Flavorful' is ill-defined.

You say Divine Metamagic isn't a flavorful feat, but it's great for many kinds of unique character concepts that otherwise wouldn't be possible. I've had a player who Persisted Blinding Beauty every day to make a character that was basically 'Mr. Light and Beauty so intense it kills you'. I've had people persist Greater Dimension Door to let their character teleport rather than walk. I've had someone persist Ice Axe so they could be a grizzeld war-priest bearing an enormous frozen weapon.

In my opinion, it sheer versatility makes Divine Metamagic a more 'flavorful' feat than Spell Thematics, which after all does very little that's not already allowed by the DMG (page 34, if you're curious).

noce
2017-10-08, 05:42 AM
'Flavorful' is ill-defined.

You say Divine Metamagic isn't a flavorful feat, but it's great for many kinds of unique character concepts that otherwise wouldn't be possible. I've had a player who Persisted Blinding Beauty every day to make a character that was basically 'Mr. Light and Beauty so intense it kills you'. I've had people persist Greater Dimension Door to let their character teleport rather than walk. I've had someone persist Ice Axe so they could be a grizzeld war-priest bearing an enormous frozen weapon.

In my opinion, it sheer versatility makes Divine Metamagic a more 'flavorful' feat than Spell Thematics, which after all does very little that's not already allowed by the DMG (page 34, if you're curious).

I appreciate your contribution.
What I was trying to say is that Divine Metamagic just lets you use your metamagic feats at reduced costs, that's it. Then, you can use those metamagic feats to do flavourful things as you say.
Basically, the flavour belongs to Persistent Spell, in my opinion, albeit it's true that you couldn't do most of the examples you cite without a metamagic reducer.

Anyway I respect your opinion. So, in addition to Divine Metamagic, are there any other feats you consider flavourful?

ExLibrisMortis
2017-10-08, 07:21 AM
Feats that let you do new things tend to have more flavour than feats that are just +numbers. I mean, Weapon Focus has flavour, but it's very bland and very hard to notice amongst other sources of attack bonus.


My favourite flavour feats are Wedded to History, Master's Voice, that sort of thing. Willing Deformity has tons of flavour, too, but it's fairly specific.

bahamut920
2017-10-08, 07:34 AM
I wish Spellfire was better. "I eat your magic and throw it back at you" sounds fun on paper, but you're eating a 10d6 fireball and tossing back 3d6 of it. Also, you have to waste at least two standard actions to use it, which would be better used doing something else.

I feel like Spell Thematics should just be a part of the system, though. I think that as long as the spell mechanically has the same effects, the player should just be able to describe it however they want to. Why should you care that the necromancer describes his fireball as a skull wreathed in green flame as long as it deals 10d6 fire damage in a 20-ft. radius over long range and is identifiable as a fireball with a DC 18 Spellcraft check?

Blue Jay
2017-10-08, 09:31 AM
I feel like a lot of feats can have interesting flavor if you're creative enough. I always find it more fun to figure out my own fluff for stuff, instead of relying on the game to dictate my flavor for me.

My favorite PC is a half-nymph healer/diplomancer. She's a gestalt character with cleric on one side, and dips into battle dancer, ninja, marshal and ranger on the other side. She just hit 10th level, and she's getting a unicorn cohort and a swan animal companion.

Her mother (the nymph) is more than just a typical nymph: she's practically a love goddess, and my PC completely idolizes her and wishes she were just like her. I used that as the fluff for Nymph's Kiss.

I was also allowed to give her Charming the Arrow (even though she technically doesn't qualify), and that one's kind of fun to fluff as her casting little spells or blowing little kisses at her arrows as she launches them.

Knowledge Devotion can be kind of fun to roleplay with a scholar character, because you get to make up stuff like, "I bet if I aim an inch lower, it'll slide right between the scales" or "stab between the skeleton's ribs and twist a little to break the vertebrae."

N0RKS
2017-10-08, 10:29 AM
Ocular Spell is great for a feeling of having your power just bursting out of you however it can (Shivering Touch you with my laser eyes!)

Throw Ally is always so much fun.

Combat Reflexes on a Dex-Monk gives a great feeling of being "the calm at the centre of the storm" which is a sweet Monk vibe.

Education is an excellent staple for backstory, you might not have many skill points or reason for those Knowledge skills, but your father was a wealthy man and he wasn't going to have any child of his not knowing their historical monarchs from their monarch butterflies damn it!

noce
2017-10-08, 10:38 AM
Education Is an excellent staple for backstory, you might not have many skill points or reason for those Knowledge skills, but your father was a wealthy man and he wasn't going to have any child of his not knowing their historical monarchs from their monarch butterflies damn it!

I made a 16 INT earth dwarf fighter with Education, with weapon feats for the Dire Pick, claiming myself a young archaeologist.
It was great fun.

Zaq
2017-10-08, 12:23 PM
Spirit Sense (HoH) is very GM-dependent, but it's quite entertaining when it's allowed to shine. Definitely a flavor feat rather than a power feat on most characters.

Keen-Eared Scout and Quick Reconnoiter (PHB2 and CAdv, respectively), when mixed with an appropriately obnoxiously high Listen score, combine in ways that tend to either annoy or delight the GM and the rest of the group, depending on the tastes of the individuals involved. If the GM is willing to play ball and if the player using it isn't intentionally trolling (using it in a crowded marketplace, for instance), it can be fun to find out about the different sorts of things that various NPCs have in their pockets, especially if the GM doesn't want to just make them all the same.

I feel that I would be remiss to not throw in at least a token mention of Blessed of Tem-Et-Nu (Sandstorm), though offering too much explanation would be gilding the lily. That feat's glory should—and does—speak for itself.

Many of the Devotion feats from Complete Champion do a reasonably good job of offering a semi-interesting benefit with a reasonably distinct flavor.

Deophaun
2017-10-08, 01:51 PM
while Spell Thematics is quite weak but I truly like the roleplaying options it gives.
Spell Thematics gives no new options because you can already refluff your spells to look however you want. All ST does is make them harder to identify with Spellcraft checks.

And that's a problem with lots of "flavorful" feats that are otherwise pointless: what you could do before for free now has rules attached to it, so you can no longer do it for free and must spend character resources to access.

Aberration Wildshape can be quite cool. RPed a character who was basically a prison for an interplanar horror from the Far Realm. The problem is it's largely tied to the Druid's terrible crunchy fluff, so I had the DM constantly injecting discordant input. "Oh, here's your order's Grove." "Wut?"

Baby Gary
2017-10-08, 02:02 PM
I really like invisible spell. It has a lot of versatility and power, but is super fun to use. Are you being chased by a squadron of the kings guard? invisible wall or stone in an alleyway, are you being chased by people with see invisibility? invisible obscuring mist. Want to polymorph into a demon lord but still want to look like a normal human? Invisible spell.

I just really like this spell, especially on conjures, INVISIBLE SUMMONS!

ottdmk
2017-10-08, 02:16 PM
Versatile Performer. I love being able to make a Bard that's truly a master musician.

SirNibbles
2017-10-08, 02:18 PM
I'm a big fan of Versatile Unarmed Strike. Need to cut a rope? Chop it. Need to gut a fish? Slice it. Want to finish someone off y impaling them? That's an option too.

It isn't too powerful, especially since it's a swift action to change forms instead of a once-per-round free action, but it can be nice for breaking through DR.

Kobold Esq
2017-10-08, 11:28 PM
I don't know if this fits the OPs criteria, but I'm a huge Able Learner fan. I love mixing and matching class levels to build exactly the character I want, especially when it comes to non-primary casters. Sometimes you start as ranger or barbarian and rogue, but the character you want to make by level 6 or 10 has a few levels of fighter or paladin or cleric or warblade. Able Learner lets you keep dabbling in whatever skills you want without stupid cross class penalties.

The feat itself just reduces a general restriction, but in the end it is a huge boon in allowing me to build the character I want to build.

noce
2017-10-09, 05:00 AM
Another feat I really like is Trickery Devotion, but I haven't managed to build a PC around that feat yet, unfortunately.

danielxcutter
2017-10-09, 06:52 AM
There are quite a number of feats from the XPH that aren't super powerful, but are still interesting. Focused Sunder isn't that great, for one, but I wouldn't be too opposed to sticking it onto some psionic gish build that meets the prerequisites. Inquisitor is a decent way of improving your Sense Motive check out of combat(not that there are many uses for it during combat anyways). Speed of Thought is kinda meh, but it's a prereq for Psionic Charge - which is a viable choice of feat, though not the best or only way to do that to be honest. Wounding Attack is actually an okayish choice for a psionic gish build. And Up the Walls is outclassed by flight or even things like Spider Climb, but hey, the feat does do exactly what it says.

TalonOfAnathrax
2017-10-09, 11:19 AM
Wedded to History is absolutely fantastic!
It even comes with several different flavour descriptions that ahev small effects in-game.

Similarly, the Touchstone feat in Sandstorm if very flavorful (if annoying to recharge sometimes).

rferries
2017-10-09, 11:58 PM
I don't know if this fits the OPs criteria, but I'm a huge Able Learner fan. I love mixing and matching class levels to build exactly the character I want, especially when it comes to non-primary casters. Sometimes you start as ranger or barbarian and rogue, but the character you want to make by level 6 or 10 has a few levels of fighter or paladin or cleric or warblade. Able Learner lets you keep dabbling in whatever skills you want without stupid cross class penalties.

The feat itself just reduces a general restriction, but in the end it is a huge boon in allowing me to build the character I want to build.

Hear, hear! So satisfying to not feel like cross-class ranks are "wasting" a skill point.

martixy
2017-10-10, 01:43 PM
Hear, hear! So satisfying to not feel like cross-class ranks are "wasting" a skill point.

Some might say it's sensible to just ignore cross-class skills.

My flavour pitch for a feat is tactical feats, e.g. Combat Panache.
Most times they have tons of flavour, and let you do fairly amusing new things, usually to middling effect.

Thurbane
2017-10-10, 05:16 PM
Trophy Collector from PHB2 was a perfect feat thematically for one of my old PCs (Half-Orc Ranger/Fighter/Barbarian), but the crunch was so underwhelming, the DM let me re-train it.

rferries
2017-10-10, 08:12 PM
Some might say it's sensible to just ignore cross-class skills.

My flavour pitch for a feat is tactical feats, e.g. Combat Panache.
Most times they have tons of flavour, and let you do fairly amusing new things, usually to middling effect.

Bah! A wizard should be able to make his enemies cower before him (Intimidate) :D Combat Panache is another winner.