[3.5] Build Help; Optimizing a Fighter/Wizard

[Nautilust]

Ok, so I've got my character done. But now I have to write up a character for my friend before the game today He wants to start out as a Fighter/Wizard. I'm thinking Human Fighter 2/Wizard 2 to start things out with. Tried to talk him into your standard Sorcadin build but hi was adamant about starting off as a Fighter/Wizard.

Build so far would look like

Human Fighter 2/Wizard 2
Str16/Dex12/Con14/Int16/Wis10/Cha10
Human Bonus Feat: Extend Spell
1st: Combat Casting
Fighter Bonus Feat: Improved Initiative
Fighter Bonus Feat: Power Attack
3rd: Improved Bull Rush

[Nautilust]

What Spells Should I give Him.

What Schools should I specialize/ban?

[danielxcutter]

For spells: mostly stuff that helps with melee combat and remains relevant for a while. Note that Wizards can just buy scrolls and learn spells off them if they need to.

For schools: You don't have to specialize, honestly. Plus there are useful spells for gish builds from pretty much every school, so I'd discourage that.... if you MUST though, transmutation isn't bad.

What sources are allowed?

[Nautilust]

As long as it's printed in a book it's allowed. (With one exception for an online prestige class i myself am using because he bought complete psionic, expanded psionic, and magic of incarnum thinking i was going to use them. However that specific prestige class was the only way to use all three books efficiently.(Soul Manifester))

[Nautilust]

He said he wanted to specialize so i am trying to go along with whatever he plans I'm thinking Transmuter but i don't know what to plan. If he had gone with elf like i kinda suggested I would hve gone Elven Generalist.

[danielxcutter]

Just sliding this here over: The Gish Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?321715-The-Gish-Handbook).

Side question: what's everyone else going to do? If there's at least one more arcane caster then that takes a huge load off of him.

[Nautilust]

There are like 6 casters (Well 4 arcane, 1 divine and 1 manifester). in our group including him i think he will be fine

I've read the gish handbook that's how i knew about Sorcadins, however it doesn't have specific build advice on how to handle a wizard/fighter.

[Nautilust]

Also I was looking for specific spells to get. Games at 12 i don't exactly have time to wade through that massive list of spells.

[Fizban]

Never take Combat Casting unless it's required for a prestige class- but if you're aiming for Abjurant Champion then it is required.

Total 8 free spells known, for a gish how about:
Mage Armor
Shield
Protection from Evil
True Strike
Enlarge Person
Ray of Enfeeblement
Benign Transposition (SpC)
Ray of Clumsiness (SpC)

I'd wait on picking up Grease until you've got enough caster level for it to actually matter, and focusing on save-or-lose seems like a bad idea when there's a bunch of other casters. Specializing is good for the extra slots, but when focusing on lower level non-resistable spells you can't be as picky about their school. Extend Spell is not that great of a choice when most spells already last long enough, if all you want is extended Mage Armor you can just buy a Lesser Rod of Extend.

Your group has 6 casters? I would expect serious difficulties finding a challenge. Most likely anything you fight will be dead or failed a critical save before a melee character has time to close the gap, let alone gishing.

[bahamut920]

If he's insistent on fighter, I'd suggest Immediate Magic Transmuter Wizard 3/Fighter 1/Wizard +2/Swiftblade 10/Abjurant Champion 4. He'll lose a bunch of caster levels (he'll only have 8th-level spells by 20), but will still be able to time stop for a guaranteed 3 rounds by 20th level to buff, and he'll get an extra standard action per round when hasted; let him cast the hastes. You have plenty of arcane spellcasters, so his lost caster levels probably won't be too noticeable. If you have to keep the second fighter level, you can drop a swiftblade level and go Wizard 2/Fighter 2/Wizard +3/Swiftblade 9/Abjurant Champion 5 (Swiftblade 9 is really the most important one), but I'd try to sell him on dropping one fighter level.

As for spells, wraithstrike will help overcome his lower BAB at low levels, bladeweave will allow him to daze enemies with melee attacks, and mage armor, shield, and mirror image will be important to keep his squishy, poorly-armored person in the realm of the living.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I would take as few levels of fighter as possible (and yes, this includes 0 levels), but if you have to have fighter make sure you're using the dungeon crasher ACF, from Dungeonscape. Give him the Knockback feat, Improved Bull Rush, and Improved Trip, and focus on spells to boost the crap out of bull rushes. Watch as he ping-pongs enemies around the battlefield.

[noce]

Specialize in conjuration and take the abrupt jaunt ACF. It's a boon to avoid full attacks, chargers and even ranged touch spells.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Specialize in conjuration and take the abrupt jaunt ACF. It's a boon to avoid full attacks, chargers and even ranged touch spells.Agreed. It's one of the best low-level survival abilities in the game, and it remains extremely relevant throughout one's entire career.

[Nautilust]

He doesn't want to play Swiftlblade he said he was shooting for +16 BAB and 9th level spells.

Combat Casting is required by Abjurant Champion, the only Prestige Class I've talked him into maybe taking so far.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

He doesn't want to play Swiftlblade he said he was shooting for +16 BAB and 9th level spells.

Combat Casting is required by Abjurant Champion, the only Prestige Class I've talked him into maybe taking so far.

Might want to just go for your basic Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 9/Abjurant Champion 5 then. (Not in that order, get Abjurant Champion ASAP then switch back to EK.) Not strictly optimal, but it hits the benchmark well enough.

Could swap Eldritch Knight for Knight Phantom if you want to be a bit fancier, and/or mix a level of Spellsword in there.

[Darrin]

My spell advice for gishes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?532726-Beatstick-Build&p=22314198#post22314198).

[Andezzar]

Might want to just go for your basic Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 9/Abjurant Champion 5 then. (Not in that order, get Abjurant Champion ASAP then switch back to EK.) Not strictly optimal, but it hits the benchmark well enough.

Could swap Eldritch Knight for Knight Phantom if you want to be a bit fancier, and/or mix a level of Spellsword in there.Be an outsider and drop the fighter level for Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 10/Abjurant Champion 5.
Knight Phantom is nice, but requires still spell, which you probably won't need very often. AC in the armor slot does not get much better than +13 and no max DEX (greater Luminous Armor modified by Abjurant Armor).

[danielxcutter]

My spell advice for gishes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?532726-Beatstick-Build&p=22314198#post22314198).

Not the OP, but this is a great resource for me too. Thanks I guess!

[Nautilust]

Well the GM okayed a re-write of his character since i rushed it so much and had some stuff wrong on it. But the player it's for said he's happy with fighter 2/ wizard 2 at the moment. So it's looking Fighter 2/Wizard X/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldritch Knight X

[Nifft]

Well the GM okayed a re-write of his character since i rushed it so much and had some stuff wrong on it. But the player it's for said he's happy with fighter 2/ wizard 2 at the moment. So it's looking Fighter 2/Wizard X/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldritch Knight X

If you have a chance, ask the player to take a look at the Duskblade class (from PHB2).

It's basically a Wizard/Fighter gish as a base class, with a few unique tricks.

[Nautilust]

I've shown him Duskblade, and the whole Gish Handbook. This is what he went with.