Hexblade Bladelock/Battlemaster build?

[Protato]

I have a character idea for a game I might be part of, and was wondering about how it sounded. My idea is for a character named Levi, a melee-focused Vuman Hexblade Bladelock primary class, but with a bit of Battlemaster multiclass. He's meant to be a skilled warrior with a magical sword given to him by a mysterious benefactor, possibly some sort of master. He's been trained to fight on the behalf of said benefactor with all manner of weapons and with magical abilities. Alignment would be Lawful Neutral (while he has a concience he believes his master/benefactor to be moral, and defers to his judgement when possible). Right now, his characterization is rather bare-bones, but I'll figure things out later.

Onto the mechanics. I believe in my friend's game we'll start at level four. The first three levels are Warlock so he can get the meat of his abilities, with Agonizing Blast and Devil Sight being his first two invocations. Cantrips are Booming Blade and of course Eldritch Blast, Level One spells are Armor of Agythis and Hex, Level Two spells are Darkness and Misty Step. Next three levels will be Fighter for Battlemaster Maneuvers. I'm thinking of going with Precision Attack, Riposte, and perhaps Menacing Attack. Not sure what the Artisan Tool should be. I'm not sure about the Feat either, btu probably either Martial Adept (get Presicion Attack early) or Magic Initiate Wizard (Find Familiar, Mage Hand, Minor Illusion). Skills will be Intimidation, Religion, and Arcana (Variant Human skill). Background is to be determined, but I was thinking Sage, Soldier, or Cloistered Scholar. Pact Weapon would likely be a Longsword. Finally, his stats, assuming Standard Array, are 8 Str/14 Dex/14 Con, 12 Int/10 Wis/16 Chr.

What do you think I could do after Level Six? I was also wondering about a Paladin multiclass, but Invocations are powerful, and I'd rather not miss out on them if possible.

[bid]

You prolly want to start fighter for Con save. Then go lock 3.

If you plan on using BB, you won't get bladelock extra attack. You might as well go tomelock/chainlock. The way you've planned, you'd be BM 3 / lock 12 ~ level 15 before lifedrinker gives you something out of blade pact.

Martial adept is a little weak, a single d6 vs 4d8 from BM.
Magic initiate... well you'd get all of that from tome pact.
Warcaster is a good alternative to Con save, does nice AO with BB, if you start warlock.
If you don't find a good starting feat, might as well go half-elf and pick a feat at lock 4. The other racial features are worth it.

[Spacehamster]

If you are going for long sword you need STR not DEX as long sword is not a finesse weapon. :)

[Zagzax]

Actually he only needs charisma with hexblade. If he starts fighter he'll have to make it through a level using an alternate finesse weapon with a 14 attack stat. Shouldn't be a problem.

[Protato]

You prolly want to start fighter for Con save. Then go lock 3.

If you plan on using BB, you won't get bladelock extra attack. You might as well go tomelock/chainlock. The way you've planned, you'd be BM 3 / lock 12 ~ level 15 before lifedrinker gives you something out of blade pact.

Martial adept is a little weak, a single d6 vs 4d8 from BM.
Magic initiate... well you'd get all of that from tome pact.
Warcaster is a good alternative to Con save, does nice AO with BB, if you start warlock.
If you don't find a good starting feat, might as well go half-elf and pick a feat at lock 4. The other racial features are worth it.

Good analysis of what I have so far! I have a few points I'd like to clarify or ask about right here though.

Hm, Booming Blade is a nice Cantrip early on, with some control and added damage, but if I can't use it with Lifedrinker I might swap it for something else later.

For feats, I agree on Martial Adept not being too good, I was mostly wanting to pick it to give me an extra Manuvere and Superiority Die when I go Battlemaster. Magic Initiate, see blow. For War Caster, I don't know how much I'd be using concentration spells, and my plan for the build is to use a one-handed sword (Longsword rather than Rapier is solely for flavor) to free up somatic components.

As for the pacts, you raise good points. However, I like both the flavor of the Bladelock (summon your glowy magical sword with a snap of your fingers), and the Improved Weapons (i.e +1, +2, etc) Invocations. I don't know if the Improved Pact Weapons are good enough to use an Invocation, but it's appealing at least on paper to me. Tomelock allows me to dip a few good utility abilities, and maybe Frostbite or Vicious Mockery (although that might be OOC for him) for a nice debuff with damage on the side. Familiars are nice to have and given the Hexblade Shadow Hound ability, the fluff works well. Incidentally, that's why I mentioned Find Familiar in Magic Initiate earlier.

Finally, as for what Zigzax brought up, the Hexblade uses Charisma to attack with which is very, very good. It makes for a very SAD build, with only two stats (Dex and Chr) needing much attention, allowing for more feats to be used down the line.

[rbstr]

Booming Blade does work with Lifedrinker, which adds damage to an attack. It won't work with Thirsting Blade/Extra Attack, though.
Improved Pact Weapon is a great invocation to take...it's better when you use extra attack rather than the melee cantrip. There are no longer +2/+3 upgrades to it as of the more recent UA.
You can use booming blade for a bit since you won't have extra attack at character level 5 with this build. It could also be used with warcaster.

Also, in regard to Xanthar's, just to warn you, like Improved Pact Weapon, Hexblade is likely to have seen some changes. In particular it probably doesn't have the shadow hound anymore.

[Spacehamster]

Actually he only needs charisma with hexblade. If he starts fighter he'll have to make it through a level using an alternate finesse weapon with a 14 attack stat. Shouldn't be a problem.

Hexblade uses charisma for all weapons? :O Understand why its only in UA then. xD

[Foff]

Hexblade uses charisma for all weapons? :O Understand why its only in UA then. xD

Hexblade uses charisma instead of str or dex for melee weapons who lack the two handed tag only
I'd argue that veratile weapons used with two hands do not get to use Cha for attack and damage rolls this way
also, nothing really gamebreaking here, it makes your build possibly SaD but it wont' let you use GWM or PAM without still having high strength
If you plan on multiclassing battlemaster i'd go lifedrinker instead of melee cantrip all the time, hex works better with more attacks and you have more possibilities to use maneuvers, also i'd give a try to a tanky sword and board build, possibly with sentinel and shield master, to play around with things like cloud of daggers, darkness, hunger of hadar, pushing shoving and tanking stuff

[Citan]

Hexblade uses charisma for all weapons? :O Understand why its only in UA then. xD
Not quite... Hexblade...
- uses charisma for all one-handed melee weapons.
- makes an attack crit on a 19.
- adds proficiency mod as bonus damage on hit from attacks.

Now I think you understand even more why it's only in UA.:smallbiggrin:
Like 3 levels of Sorcerer or a single level of Life/Nature/Tempest/War Cleric for any caster, a single level of Hexblade Warlock would be a "mandatory" dip for any martial (or Bladesinger/Valor Bard ;)) that can afford the multiclass requirement considering how strong-loaded it is.

For it to leave the UA, they should imo at the very least split all those three benefits in Warlock progression (something like CHA at level 1, proficiency mod at level 5, auto-crit at level 11 -of course it's automatic gain as you level, and I didn't really think about those levels, it was just to illustrate) to avoid multiclass power-cheese and keep initial choice interesting.

[Brother carc]

Be careful about multiclassing hexblade with anything. It plays a bit too well with other classes to the point of being completely broken. For example:

Hexblade 3/sorcerer 2

Hex a target and cast magic missile at level 1 for a virtually guaranteed 3d4 + 12 damage a turn. No save for half. No roll to hit required.

Edit: ninja'd

[Degwerks]

Be careful about multiclassing hexblade with anything. It plays a bit too well with other classes to the point of being completely broken. For example:

Hexblade 3/sorcerer 2

Hex a target and cast magic missile at level 1 for a virtually guaranteed 3d4 + 12 damage a turn. No save for half. No roll to hit required.

Edit: ninja'd

Actually since SA ruled some time ago that MM only rolls damage once, as 1d4 and that number is used for all missiles, the hexblade curse damage is only going to be +2-+6 depending on level. Your example is 3d4+6

I don't have the link for that SA but it was a popular topic at the time. Benefits Evoker wizards pretty well.

[Brother carc]

Make it scorching ray instead of magic missile then...

[Mikal]

Not quite... Hexblade...
- uses charisma for all one-handed melee weapons.
- makes an attack crit on a 19.
- adds proficiency mod as bonus damage on hit from attacks.

Incorrect.

Charisma to hit and damage is right, the other two abilities are only for those who are the target of your hexblades curse.
You can only curse a single target once per short rest, it doesn't transfer (in the latest UA) and you don't get to use it more often until Warlock level 14.

I'm actually playing a similar concept in my current game, though going PAM/Sentinel/GWM str build for it.

I actually would recommend going warlock to 5 if you can before fightser, and taking eldritch smite. Biggest hexblade benefit is the short rest smite ability.

For invocations I would actually change one of my first two invocations to improved pact weapon since it makes your pact weapon both an arcane focus and +1 magic (until you get a better one).

At level 5 take thirsting blade and change your other level 2
Invocation to smite. (Remember you can swap a single invocation every time you gain a warlock level making this possible).

At level 5 that's an additional 4d8 force damage plus auto prone for enemies large size or smaller twice per short rest.

When and if you go back to warlock and you have at least 5 levels of fighter, swap out thirsting blade since it's superfluous.

For other levels if you aren't continuing fighter or warlock sorcerer is your best bet. I'd go stone sorcerer personally, barring that draconic.

If you stay warlock try and get a ring of spell storing and any time you have a free slot and can cast it, put elemental weapon in it once you have level 5 slots. Gives a better to hit bonus and does better damage than hex as a concentration spell.

Future invocations can get you AB again as well as devils sight, though relentless hex is pretty useful for pursuit.

At level 12 lifedrinker is mandatory.



Feat wise... I'd actually ignore feats if you're going longsword, until you got your charisma to 20. After that maybe blade master for +1 to attack and/or lucky.

Duelist fighting style of course.

[Citan]

Incorrect.

Charisma to hit and damage is right, the other two abilities are only for those who are the target of your hexblades curse.
You can only curse a single target once per short rest, it doesn't transfer (in the latest UA) and you don't get to use it more often until Warlock level 14.

I'm sorry, I should have made that precision but it seemed so obvious to me I forgot not everyone had laid eyes on UA. Also I forgot about "get THP on kill".

Yes, it's only 1/enemy/short rest. But it's still too extremely good as a 1st level feature, because it scales with "character level", not class level, except the THP, and works whatever kind of attack you use.
Vengeance Paladin is lesser than that (only helps to hit), and you get it at 3rd level.
Hunter's Mark is lesser than that (uses slot and concentration), and you get it as 2nd level.
Champion is lesser than that (only helps to crit), and you get it at 3rd level.

Even if it's only one enemy, you get too much at the same time to not make it balanced as a 1st level feature. Especially since, because it's not a spell, you can stack it with whatever else you want.
Making it the best dip for a Fighter (usually not lots of bonus action), for Rogue (naturally fit for single-target focus), or even classes that usually have something to do with their bonus action like Monks, Bladesingers or (Vengeance) Paladins, or casters that like to make nova plays with Scorching Fire and Elemental Adept feat or Elemental Bane spell (to take care of resistance).
They really should have separated the "use CHA for attacks" as 1st level feature from patron, and the rest as an Invocation or automatic level 6 patron feature.

[Mikal]

I'm sorry, I should have made that precision but it seemed so obvious to me I forgot not everyone had laid eyes on UA.

Yes, it's only 1/enemy/short rest. But it's still too extremely good as a 1st level feature, because it scales with "character level", not class level.


There's a big difference between always critting on 19 and adding proficiency to damage vs doing so for up to 10
Rounds in a single opponent once per short rest.

And yeah, it scales with character level. Personally Eldritch Blast is deadlier than the curse if we want to discuss character level scaling abilities.


Vengeance Paladin is lesser than that (only helps to hit), and you get it at 3rd level.
Hunter's Mark is lesser than that (uses slot and concentration), and you get it as 2nd level.
Champion is lesser than that (only helps to crit), and you get it at 3rd level.

Vengeance paladin gets fighting styles and other abilities that he blades don't.

ALL warlocks get the Hex spell if they choose it at level 1 vs hunters mark, and it regens on a short rest vs hunters mark.

Should we also nerf Hex?

Champions get other abilities including a fighting style that hexblades don't.


Even if it's only one enemy, you get too much at the same time to not make it balanced as a 1st level feature. Especially since, because it's not a spell, you can stack it with whatever else you want.

If you look at the ability in a vacuum and don't compare the class as a whole yes. That's why you compare the class as a whole.

Regarding the OPs build, the more I think about it the more I think battle master does little to help. A lot of the battle master abilities besides riposte really aren't as useful as spell slots from a sorcerer once the hexblade gets eldritch smite.

As such if I wasn't going to stay a warlock I'd probably go warlock 5/fighter 1 (maybe 2) with duelist/sorcerer 13 or 14

[bid]

Actually since SA ruled some time ago that MM only rolls damage once, as 1d4 and that number is used for all missiles, the hexblade curse damage is only going to be +2-+6 depending on level. Your example is 3d4+6
Erm... you reached the conclusion opposite to what you quoted. It's 1d4+1+3 * 3.

You roll damage once (1d4+1 ~ 3+1 = 4). You add your proficiency to the first damage roll (4+3 = 7). Each misslie does that damage (3 missiles ~ 21)

[Degwerks]

Erm... you reached the conclusion opposite to what you quoted. It's 1d4+1+3 * 3.

You roll damage once (1d4+1 ~ 3+1 = 4). You add your proficiency to the first damage roll (4+3 = 7). Each misslie does that damage (3 missiles ~ 21)

Oops! It was early for me...

[samcifer]

Erm... you reached the conclusion opposite to what you quoted. It's 1d4+1+3 * 3.

You roll damage once (1d4+1 ~ 3+1 = 4). You add your proficiency to the first damage roll (4+3 = 7). Each misslie does that damage (3 missiles ~ 21)

Huh? Admittedly math was my worst subject in school, so this all looks like gibberish to me. :(

[Degwerks]

Huh? Admittedly math was my worst subject in school, so this all looks like gibberish to me. :(

You roll Magic Missile damage once. 1d4+1 so let's say that you roll a 3, each missile does 3+1 damage. Hexblade curse does your proficiency bonus in damage too. That's for each missile. So 4+3 is 7. 3 missiles doing 7 damage each is 21.

[Protato]

Where would the newest UA for the Hexblade and Invocations be? I can't seem to find it when I google it.

[Mikal]

Where would the newest UA for the Hexblade and Invocations be? I can't seem to find it when I google it.

Updated invocations at the end. No changes to Hexblade itself

https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/June5UA_RevisedClassOptv1.pdf

[Protato]

Alright, so pre-Xanthar's but post-revised Invocation Hexblade Bladelock/Battlemaster idea taking everyone's feedback into consideration.

Alright, first Level is Fighter for Con save, Dueling, proficiencies, and maybe a little higher HP. Possibly a Rapier as an early weapon, to be sold, donated, or used as a backup weapon later. Magic Initiate feat gives me a few spells at level one, both for flavor (forshadowing his Warlock career) and for practical reasons (more options). I use it to take Booming Blade, Mage Hand, and Find Familiar. Next few levels are Warlock. By level three, spells are: Eldritch Blast, Minor Illusion, Armor of Agathys, Hex, Misty Step, and I'm not certain what my other spell should be but possibly Shatter. Invocations are Agonizing Blast and Improved Pact Weapon. After taking Eldritch Smite at Level 5, I then go Battlemaster and take Parry, Riposte, and Precision Attack.

After this, I'm thinking I could go to Level 5 Fighter to get the extra attack and it frees an invocation from using Thirsting Blade. Other Invocations I'm looking at are Lifedrinker, Devil Sight, and possibly Witch Sight if he can get up to Level 15 Warlock. What does everyone think of it now?

[Mikal]

Alright, so pre-Xanthar's but post-revised Invocation Hexblade Bladelock/Battlemaster idea taking everyone's feedback into consideration.

Alright, first Level is Fighter for Con save, Dueling, proficiencies, and maybe a little higher HP. Possibly a Rapier as an early weapon, to be sold, donated, or used as a backup weapon later. Magic Initiate feat gives me a few spells at level one, both for flavor (forshadowing his Warlock career) and for practical reasons (more options). I use it to take Booming Blade, Mage Hand, and Find Familiar. Next few levels are Warlock. By level three, spells are: Eldritch Blast, Minor Illusion, Armor of Agathys, Hex, Misty Step, and I'm not certain what my other spell should be but possibly Shatter. Invocations are Agonizing Blast and Improved Pact Weapon. After taking Eldritch Smite at Level 5, I then go Battlemaster and take Parry, Riposte, and Precision Attack.

After this, I'm thinking I could go to Level 5 Fighter to get the extra attack and it frees an invocation from using Thirsting Blade. Other Invocations I'm looking at are Lifedrinker, Devil Sight, and possibly Witch Sight if he can get up to Level 15 Warlock. What does everyone think of it now?
Your original stats were posted as
Str/14 Dex/14 Con, 12 Int/10 Wis/16 Chr.

If you're going fighter 1 first I'd change the stats over to

Str 14, Dex 10, Con 14, Int ?? Wis 12, Cha 16 (your original stats are confusing cause it's missing a number).
And I'd choose the tiefling race in the newest UA over V-Human that provides +2 cha and +1 str
+2 Cha, +1 Str, bringing you to 15-10-14-??-12-18

Ignore Magic Initiate, and your first level of fighter will let you use heavy armor, so Dex can be safe at 10.
Just keep a longsword and shield the entire time, duelist fighting style.
By going Warlock 5 and then Fighter 5 after, without taking Thirsting Blade you'll be level 10 before you get a second attack. I don't recommend that. I'd actually recommend Fighter 1/Warlock 1/Fighter to 5 or 6 (for the extra ASI), then Warlock to 5, if you don't want to use Thirsting Blade.

I'd recommend just going with Thirsting Blade though.

This also frees up an invocation since you should have a +1 weapon by the time you get to Warlock 5.

[Protato]

Your original stats were posted as
Str/14 Dex/14 Con, 12 Int/10 Wis/16 Chr.

If you're going fighter 1 first I'd change the stats over to

Str 14, Dex 10, Con 14, Int ?? Wis 12, Cha 16 (your original stats are confusing cause it's missing a number).
And I'd choose the tiefling race in the newest UA over V-Human that provides +2 cha and +1 str
+2 Cha, +1 Str, bringing you to 15-10-14-??-12-18

Ignore Magic Initiate, and your first level of fighter will let you use heavy armor, so Dex can be safe at 10.
Just keep a longsword and shield the entire time, duelist fighting style.
By going Warlock 5 and then Fighter 5 after, without taking Thirsting Blade you'll be level 10 before you get a second attack. I don't recommend that. I'd actually recommend Fighter 1/Warlock 1/Fighter to 5 or 6 (for the extra ASI), then Warlock to 5, if you don't want to use Thirsting Blade.

I'd recommend just going with Thirsting Blade though.

This also frees up an invocation since you should have a +1 weapon by the time you get to Warlock 5.

Noted, thank you.

In additional to all this, what pregen background might suit my character best? I was basically imagining he was raised to be an enforcer of some villain's will at a young age, so while Soldier might fit, I like to imagine he knows more than simply fighting. For Int I think I'm going with 12 (not the most intelligent person but he has formal education) and Wis 8 (years of being raised by an emotionally abusive manipulator has left him filled with self doubt in his own perception of the world). I know I can make backgrounds but I've never done it before and reading guides on how is a bit confusing to me. Do I just pick two or three skills I think make sense and find/make a flavorful background feature that helps narratively, along with a few items or maybe weapons? For the skills I was thinking of Arcana and Religion (was taught of magic and religion) with Intimidation and Investigation as his Fighter skills. Athletics could his extra skill if I go vuman.

[Mikal]

Noted, thank you.

In additional to all this, what pregen background might suit my character best? I was basically imagining he was raised to be an enforcer of some villain's will at a young age, so while Soldier might fit, I like to imagine he knows more than simply fighting. For Int I think I'm going with 12 (not the most intelligent person but he has formal education) and Wis 8 (years of being raised by an emotionally abusive manipulator has left him filled with self doubt in his own perception of the world). I know I can make backgrounds but I've never done it before and reading guides on how is a bit confusing to me. Do I just pick two or three skills I think make sense and find/make a flavorful background feature that helps narratively, along with a few items or maybe weapons?

The steps for custom background creation are in the start of the background section in the PHB.

IIRC, it's two skills, two languages/tools, equipment, and an existing backgrounds "benefit"

[Protato]

Alright so i think I figured something out, I hope this makes sense. Also, I know it's long, but I put the spaces to add legibility. The post after this is to explain why I picked the options I did.

UA Hexblade Build

Variant Human

Feat: Magic Initiate if Familiars are allowed with Blade Pact, Wizard (Booming Blade, Mage Hand, Find Familiar). For other Feats, I'm considering taking Alert, Lucky, Mobile, or Spell Sniper upon ASIs after Chr is maxed.

Standard Array: 14 Str, 10 Dex, 14 Con, 12 Int, 8 Wis, 16 Chr

L1: Fighter 1: Dueling. Cantrips: Booming Blade, Mage Hand. Spells: Find Familiar.

L2: Hexblade Warlock 1: Hexblade’s Curse, Hex Warrior. Cantrips: Minor Illusion, Eldritch Blast. Spells: Hex, Armor of Agathys. Hexblade Spells: Shield, Wrathful Smite.

L3: Warlock 2: Agonizing Blast, Eldritch Sight. Spells: Charm Person.

L4: Warlock 3: Blade Pact. Spells: Replace Charm Person with Misty Step, Mirror Image. Hexblade Spells: Magic Weapon, Branding Smite.

L5: Warlock 4: Chr +2. Cantrips: Lightning Lure. Spells: Shatter.

L6: Warlock 5: Replace Eldritch Sight with Eldritch Smite, Thirsting Blade. Spells: Hypnotic Pattern. Hexblade Spells: Blink, Elemental Weapon.

L7: Fighter 2: Action Surge.

L8: Fighter 3: Parry, Riposte, Precision Attack, Alchemy Kit.

L9: Fighter 4: +2 Chr.

L10: Warlock 6: Shadow Hound. Spells: Fly.

L11: Fighter 5: Extra Attack.

L12: Warlock 7: Replace Thirsting Blade with Improved Pact Weapon, Ghostly Gaze. Spells: Dimension Door. Hexblade Spells: Phantasmal Killer, Staggering Smite

L13: Warlock 8: Feat/ASI. Spells: Banishment.

L14: Warlock 9: Devil’s Sight. Spells: Hold Monster. Hexblade Spells: Cone of Cold, Destructive Wave.

L15: Warlock 10: Armor of Hexes. Cantrips: Ray of Frost.

L16: Warlock 11: Mystic Arcanum 6 (Eyebite). Spells: Fireball

L17: Warlock 12: Feat/ASI, Lifedrinker.

L18: Warlock 13: Mystic Arcanum 7 (Forcecage). Spells: Dispel Magic.

L19: Warlock 14: Master of Hexes.

L20: Warlock 15: Witch Sight, Mystic Arcanum (Feeblemind). Spells: Counterspell.

[Protato]

Fighter 1 gets me the ability to wear whatever armor and use whatever weapons I like from the start, along with a bit more HP and Con save proficiency. MI grants me a decent melee spell, some utility, and a Familiar. The next few levels are where the meat of my abilities come from, plus an ASI. By level 6 I have an extra attack, same time as a pure Valor Bard gets one, and a smite. After that comes the Fighter abilities, with a quick break by picking up Shadow Hound before tossing out Thirsting Blade for Extra Attack, freeing an Invocation. After that, much of my progression in terms of being a physical fighter is complete.