25th Level Infernal Gestalt

[JNAProductions]

So, basically, my race is any devil. No LA or RHD, I just get all their abilities.

Then, on top of that, it's level 25 gestalt. (I can also be a level 27 gestalt human, if that'd be better.)

No psionics or ToB allowed.

How do I make this character incredibly powerful?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'd go with a Paeliryon, from Fiendish Codex II. Between the spell-like abilities, most of which are at-will, being constantly surrounded by a Mind Fog (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mindFog.htm) effect, and 20-ft. reach claws with a huge crit chance that add 1d4 Cha damage on each hit, you should have plenty to work with. Plus you would have plenty of role-playing opportunities, as a hideous creature that perceives itself as glamorous.

I'd make the character a primary spellcaster, probably a spell-to-power Erudite, and since this is gestalt you could include Warblade and/or Swordsage for physical combat tricks.

[JNAProductions]

So, basically, my race is any devil. No LA or RHD, I just get all their abilities.

Then, on top of that, it's level 25 gestalt. (I can also be a level 27 gestalt human, if that'd be better.)

No psionics or ToB allowed.

How do I make this character incredibly powerful?

This was clearly missed. Thank you for your advice though!

[Nifft]

So, basically, my race is any devil. No LA or RHD, I just get all their abilities.

Then, on top of that, it's level 25 gestalt. (I can also be a level 27 gestalt human, if that'd be better.)

No psionics or ToB allowed.

How do I make this character incredibly powerful?

What does the bolded phrase mean?

Do you get Size & Reach? Natural armor? Natural attacks? SLAs? If you picked Pit Fiend, would you get Regeneration and Constrict?

Can you be literally an Infernal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#infernal)?

In terms of Gestalt, one thematic and strong option might be Wizard 20 // Ranger 10 / Mortal Hunter 10, if you expect to be facing a lot of mortals. ("I studied on killing you."), then in Epic add on Epic Wizard 5 // Epic Infiltrator 5 (for Epic Spellcasting etc.).

[JNAProductions]

Ah, forgot to mention: Has to be CR 20 or below. But yeah, I am the devil as my race, gaining ALL its abilities, with the exception of HD. No HD, no LA.

And no, I expect to be facing demons.

[Deophaun]

Any devil? Is an aspect a valid choice?

Although I'd say that the 27/27 human gestalt is probably going to be more powerful at start, and then it depends on whether the devil part of the character counts as +2 LA for experience purposes.

[JNAProductions]

I'm really looking for specific builds.

I'm leaning towards a Wizard//Archivist, with Dweomerkeeper thrown in for giggles, but what would such a build look like?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

This was clearly missed. Thank you for your advice though!

Yeah I totally missed that bit, but Paeliryon is still a very strong choice. Go Wizard or Archivist, or even both gestalt, and you should do fine.

[Rebel7284]

So something like:
Wizard 5/Incantatrix 10/Dweomerkeeper 10 //
Factotum 8/Archivist 17

Meets all your requirements for the build and is ridiculously strong.

Other ideas:
- Instead of having Archivist, Rainbow Servant gives your wizard access to the cleric list, which frees up some levels. (can you be non-evil?)
- Factotum to level 11 would be nice for automatically overcoming any SR (does this overcome immunity to magic? It's described as SR=Infinity)
- Anything with Circle Magic is ridiculous as always.
- This may be a chance to actually play Master Transmogrifist.
- Swiftblade is another great way to get extra actions.

Edit:
Also, if you get those two instances of Improved Metamagic, take a third instance as an epic feat and and Echoing Spell metamagic. Apply Echoing Spell to all your spells for free. If you use them, they just come back one hour later at -4 caster level. That's some silly endurance.

[Dromuthra]

Yeah I totally missed that bit, but Paeliryon is still a very strong choice. Go Wizard or Archivist, or even both gestalt, and you should do fine.
A great base, but sadly a CR 22 base.

For powerhouses, the Sorrowsworn (MM3) and the Deathdrinker (MM4) are nice devilish choices. Honorable mention to the Kelvezu (MM2) for coming with a free 8d6 of Sneak Attack, and the Brachina (FC II) for having regeneration and a +18 to Charisma.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A great base, but sadly a CR 22 base.

The current version of a Paeliryon in Fiendish Codex II is CR 18. You're looking at the 3.0 Fiend Folio version.

[Dromuthra]

*Checks books* Huh, I stand corrected. Strong contender then.

[ExLibrisMortis]

I'd just go with pit fiend, it has the highest overall ability score loadout and some sweet regeneration. Have a look at Team Primeval (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?201638-Team-Primeval).

Stack on your usual persistomancy and go to town. Incantatrix 10, two levels Archmage (one to make touch spells persistable, two to get body outside body as SLA), two levels Wyrm Wizard (for body outside body), maybe five levels Red Wizard, Hathran, or Halruaan Elder to pick up Circle Magic, Divine Oracle 2 for super-evasion/mettle, Abjurant Champion for the +10 AC, (ex-)Spellguard of Silverymoon for the touch spell benefits. Make sure you get consumptive field and its greater version somehow (arcane scrolls of those can be scribed by dread necromancers). Then on the other side, X to Y dips, maybe some factotum, monk, paladin of tyranny, marshal, etcetera. You can also add some artificer to pick up those item creation feats.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

100% caster and skills build, as mundane, noncasting sacks of low-skill hit points are pretty horrible in epic. Consider two levels of chameleon in there somewhere for the floating feat. Use it to grab Extra Spell to pen a new spell into your spellbook eidetic memory every day. You might also consider ways to spontaneously cast all of your spells known. There are plenty of ways to do this. (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=474.0)

You might also consider a fiendish black ethergaunt with caster-boosting templates (like magister, perhaps?), with some levels in eidetic spellcaster wizard using the above spontanaity enablers. Consider going half-illithid template and taking the illithid savant PrC to eat some spellcasters and other critters (like greater doppelganger for consume identity). Make sure you eat a devil for the baatezu subtype to count as a devil.

A few levels in fiend of possession in there somewhere will mean that your physical form is basically inviolate; just make sure to inhabit the body of something really powerful -- like the tarrasque.

[JNAProductions]

Has to be an official devil. No template shenanigans.

[RoboEmperor]

One of the Lords of the Nine. They are all CR20.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Has to be an official devil. No template shenanigans.In that case, I'd suggest an imp going into fiend of possession, with spontaneous wizard + full casting PrCs, two levels in chameleon, eleven levels in factotum to ignore SR and DR completely, and once polymorph is on the table (or once you get an illithid body to hijack), illithid savant.

[ExLibrisMortis]

In that case, I'd suggest an imp going into fiend of possession, with spontaneous wizard + full casting PrCs, two levels in chameleon, eight levels in factotum to ignore SR and DR completely, and once polymorph is on the table (or once you get an illithid body to hijack), illithid savant.
Considering that RHD and LA are not holding you back, I wonder what advantage you're hoping to gain by playing an imp instead of a pit fiend. I mean, pit fiends polymorph into illithid just as easily as imps, and have some advantages besides.

[JNAProductions]

How exactly do I make a Devil spontaneous wizard? I saw some stuff about chaos spells, but does that work for a Lawful being?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Considering that RHD and LA are not holding you back, I wonder what advantage you're hoping to gain by playing an imp instead of a pit fiend. I mean, pit fiends polymorph into illithid just as easily as imps, and have some advantages besides.Bragging rights? Plus, who knows what penalties the DM might have in mind to saddle players with high-CR characters with. Better to avoid that altogether, if possible.


How exactly do I make a Devil spontaneous wizard? I saw some stuff about chaos spells, but does that work for a Lawful being?Even devils can cast [Chaos] spells, unless they're clerics or something. Usually, feats and PrCs (and some base classes) are the ones who exclude opposite alignment creatures from using them.

Just start taking levels in wizard and use the [non-racial] options to start building.

[JNAProductions]

Bragging rights? Plus, who knows what penalties the DM might have in mind to saddle players with high-CR characters with. Better to avoid that altogether, if possible.

Even devils can cast [Chaos] spells, unless they're clerics or something. Usually, feats and PrCs (and some base classes) are the ones who exclude opposite alignment creatures from using them.

Just start taking levels in wizard and use the [non-racial] options to start building.

Okay, neat.

But, since I get spell-like abilities while possessing something, I do think Paeliryon is a good choice. At-will GDM, Mind Blank, Meteor Swarm... All kinds of tasty goodness!

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Okay, neat.

But, since I get spell-like abilities while possessing something, I do think Paeliryon is a good choice. At-will GDM, Mind Blank, Meteor Swarm... All kinds of tasty goodness!I'd put wizard+casting PrCs on one side and factotum/fiend of possession/chameleon/whatever on the other. It's too bad Able Learner is human only...unless you take Human-Blooded at 1st level? Do you have access to flaws? Otherwise, might I suggest DCFSing out whatever Armor and Shield Proficiency feats you get from your class for them? For more info, go look at Light Armor Proficiency and Shield Proficiency; you automatically gain them for every class you have that isn't excluded (wizard, monk, sorcerer, etc).

Also, instead of regular equipment, I would suggest purchasing the illithid skin graft and enhancing it with magic item abilities that you'll always want to have on. That way, you can't lose your equipment. Bonus points if you take feats that allow you to imbue money (and magic) into it. For instance, if you take the Landlord feat and PAO your skin into an outhouse, you can then use the money you gain from Landlord to imbue it with magic item properties before grafting it onto yourself. How about Item Familiar, as well? If you were a Good-aligned devil, I'd suggest Ancestral Relic, too.

[JNAProductions]

Okay, Factotum 16 (For Cunning Defense)/Fiend of Possession 6/something else 3? on one side.

Then Wizard 5/Incantatrix 10/Loremaster 9/Archmage 1.

Feats would be as follows:

1: Spell Focus (Conjuration)
1: Wizard Bonus Feat: Scribe Scroll
3: Extend Spell
Otyugh Hole: Iron Will
5: Wizard Bonus Feat: ?
6: Skill Focus (Knowledge: Arcana)
6: Incantatrix Bonus Feat: Any Metamagic
9: Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
11: Incantatrix Bonus Feat: Any Metamagic
12: Spell Focus (Transmutation?)
15: ?
15: Incantatrix Bonus Feat: Any Metamagic
18: ?
21: ?
24: ?

Taking Arcane Reach for my Archmage ability.
Banning Evocation for my specialized school.
For my 5 secrets, I'll pick +2 Will, Fort, and Ref, then +1 Attack and a new feat.

Look good?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Don't forget Spontaneous Divination. Also, I'd suggest Human Heritage or Human-Blooded, Able Learner, and chameleon 2 for its floaty feat. There's all sorts of things you can do with a floaty feat.

Also, feats are the best use of your loremaster secrets, generally.

[JNAProductions]

Don't forget Spontaneous Divination. Also, I'd suggest Human Heritage or Human-Blooded, Able Learner, and chameleon 2 for its floaty feat. There's all sorts of things you can do with a floaty feat.

Also, feats are the best use of your loremaster secrets, generally.

Can't take the same secret more than once.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Can't take the same secret more than once.Then I wouldn't bother with many levels in loremaster. Io7V? Be a rainbow devil.

[JNAProductions]

Then I wouldn't bother with many levels in loremaster. Io7V? Be a rainbow devil.

Maybe. Need another feat for spell focus...

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Maybe. Need another feat for spell focus...DCFS out your armor and shield feats from your non-wizard classes.

Also, there aren't many PrCs that force you to lose your abilities when you lose the prereqs, so DCFS your armor/shield feats to meet the prereqs, then drop them when you no longer need more levels in your PrCs.

[JNAProductions]

Okay, the Chaos Shuffle might be too cheesy for me.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Okay, the Chaos Shuffle might be too cheesy for me.Would it be more palatable if you were an imp? :smallbiggrin:

Also, you could use polymorph to gain the human bonus feat. Only works for 1 feat at a time, but still.

Also, I do believe there are easily obtainable arcane PrCs that automatically grant Spell Focus at 1st level. You could also check this out: https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/25395/how-do-i-gain-extra-feats-outside-of-normal-levelling

[JNAProductions]

You know, I think I'm actually okay with my current build. It might not be the ABSOLUTE BEST, but it'll do.

Working on the sheet now.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You know, I think I'm actually okay with my current build. It might not be the ABSOLUTE BEST, but it'll do.

Working on the sheet now.Personally I think loremaster is a waste since you're going into the insanity that is epic (as Io7V would vastly improve your survivability), but if you're happy, that's what matters.

You can always try the Io7V when this character inevitably dies. :smalltongue:

[edit] Also, purchase as many ways of refilling used spell slots or casting from things other than spell slots (such as rods of absorption) as you can, and then use this trick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?246396-Another-Addition-To-The-Tippyverse) to clone as many of those things as you can, to prevent yourself from ever running out of spells for the day. You won't even have to camp out on a fast-time demiplane to refill spell slots because you'll never, ever run out.

[edit 2] Hmm. Are there any devils that are also swarms, like an intelligent, baatezu version of a hellwasp swarm? Being able to infest tens of thousands of bodies via fiend of possession would make you rather difficult to destroy.