Get Fit: I want a folding vegetable.

[Tvtyrant]

I didn't see a thread for fitNess and lifestyle changes, so if there is one we can close this.



My whole family is fat. Not thick, or heavy, but we'll and truly fat. My childhood was essentially training to accept my parents lifestyle choices as my own, and to articulate their defenses to other people.

My parents have other disfunctions, but the relevant one here is that we eat an endless meal from 6pm to sleep time. At 6 is dinner, which is a carb heavy meal of pastas, potatoes or other starches with meat and a tiny serving of veggies. Then comes snacks like popcorn, peanut butter on crackers, or chips then at 8 is dessert, followed by more snacks.

Sound like a holiday? It is like thanksgiving every day at my house. Anytime this is brought up it is met by rage and accusations of fat shaming.

I knew something was wrong because every time I moved out I would lose 50-60 pounds, then regain it on moving back. But it takes willpower to abandon a lifetime of being trained to an eating disorder, and that is something I have always lacked.

So at 26 I finally got over the 375 pound mark and started to get ill. An expensive and endless assortment of maladies hit me, and I spent a few years seeing doctors trying to find the cause. I even quit a doctor that suggested it was my weight.

So in April I hit my all time high weight mark of 420 pounds, and agreed to see a nutritionist and go on a (gasp) diet. And immediately stopped seeing the symptoms I had been dealing with for years.

I come to find out I have a food addiction, and so probably does everyone else in my family. Cutting carbs and sugar out killed my longing for food (after two weeks of hell).

But of course I am already borderline diabetic, so I have about two years to drop 200 pounds to try to keep me off a lifetime of drugs and needles.



Current Lifts:

Monday Lower Body
Squats
Good Mornings
Leg Extensions
Leg Curls
Standing Calf
Seated Calf
Walking Lunges
ABs - Reaches


Wednesday Upper Body
Bench Press
Arm Curls
Incline
Shoulder Press
Millitary Press
DB Laterals(Ka ka)
Skull Crushers
Planks


Friday Full body
Deadlift
Seated Row
Lateral Pulldowns
Barbell Curls
Tricep Dip
Pallof Press ISO Hold
Single-Arm Kettle Bell Snatch
Squat Rotator

The good news is I have lost 60 pounds since June on Atkins + gone from difficulty walking short distances to working out three days a week and doing long hikes once a week.

The only issue I have with my current diet is getting enough vitamins, as keeping carbs under 20 grams a day leaves little room for fruits and veggies. I take pills, but sometimes I get deficient for something (like potassium) and spend days in a fugue before I figure out what I am missing.

[paddyfool]

Congratulations on making a change!
All change is hard at the start, and messy in the middle, but It's the only way to make things better in the end.

[Coidzor]

Folding?

You'll be hard pressed to get too many calories if you eat some carrots or broccoli, or even something like orange juice so long as you measure it out and hold to only having X amount of it.

[Tvtyrant]

Folding?

You'll be hard pressed to get too many calories if you eat some carrots or broccoli, or even something like orange juice so long as you measure it out and hold to only having X amount of it.

Really, stupendously bad pun.

Yeah l think that is fair.

[paddyfool]

There are plenty of low carb veg options, e.g. this list: https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/21-best-low-carb-vegetables

Edit: always worth making sure you get enough of these, for fibre, electrolytes and various micronutrients. Also, a few fresh, whole fruit (better than juices in this regard).

[Themrys]

Leafy green vegetables contain less carbohydrates than root vegetables.

[zlefin]

carbs under 20g a day sounds excessive; in general eating plenty of fruits and vegetables is never a problem. but if that's the diet you wanna try, hmmm; meats and milk can be good sources of nutrients.

[Honest Tiefling]

Is there a particular reason you're limiting carbs to such a high degree, such as a low carb diet? I haven't tried that, but I am also on a diet and trying to shed weight. I've found that finding the right diet for your own habits and lifestyle is important. I would worry if your diet doesn't have room for veggies and fruit, so maybe this isn't the diet for you. Especially if there is fruit and vegetables you do enjoy eating in a healthy manner, it's important not to lose that habit.

Otherwise, I would try to look at your vitamin pill options. You did mention taking one, but that it was deficient. Perhaps you need to switch brands, or to buy supplements to the vitamin pill for things like potassium.

[Tvtyrant]

Is there a particular reason you're limiting carbs to such a high degree, such as a low carb diet? I haven't tried that, but I am also on a diet and trying to shed weight. I've found that finding the right diet for your own habits and lifestyle is important. I would worry if your diet doesn't have room for veggies and fruit, so maybe this isn't the diet for you. Especially if there is fruit and vegetables you do enjoy eating in a healthy manner, it's important not to lose that habit.

Otherwise, I would try to look at your vitamin pill options. You did mention taking one, but that it was deficient. Perhaps you need to switch brands, or to buy supplements to the vitamin pill for things like potassium.

Yes, my nutritionist told me to. I am on a particular diet that is meant to force the body to undergo ketosis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketosis). This offsets some of the issues with diabetes, and forces the body to lose fat. In order to undergo ketosis you need to limit your card intake drastically.

It is also important to reiterate that I have food addiction problems directly correlating to sugar and carbs, so while I eat green veggies like broccoli and spinach daily I can't risk relapse by eating many foods like fruits (which are made of sugar).

Good point, different supplements might be helpful.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of supplements myself, because generally people will just eat regularly alongside them and see no difference at all, except maybe possibly some slight toxicity from too much proteins or certain other stuffs in the very long run, but this seems like the kind of situation they're for. Because as you know much better than I do, 200 pounds is a lot to lose, so you're going to cut back on normal food a lot, and you still want to get all the vitamins and other goodies as well as a sort of medium protein level and enough exercise to prevent yourself from losing all your muscles and the ability to move alongside the fat.

What supplements will not help you with is getting a full feeling, which helps you to stop eating, so "folding vegetables" are probably still a good idea. I know tomatoes and cucumbers are supposed to be pretty low carb, especially the overgrown watery ones that the organic crowd hates so much. The claim that they contain "negative calories" = they take more energy to digest than they contain for use, is false, as far as I know, but they're still kind of lean. Maybe some high fiber stuff like lettuce? I don't really know what the carb count is on that, but from the look and taste I would guess it's relatively low. Basically avoid anything that's sweet, like bell peppers, anything that has a bit of a dough/potato texture to it, like cauliflower, and anything that tastes like fat, but I'm not sure I even know a vegetable example of that.

[paddyfool]

You may find this list helpful, for carbs per quarter cup (from here, along with parallel lists for fruit: http://lowcarbediem.com/atkins-low-carb-fruit-vegetable-list/ )


Artichoke 6.9
Asparagus (6) 2.4
Beans, green 2.9
Beets 6.5
Bok Choy 0.7
Broccoli 1.7
Brussels Sprouts 7.6
Cabbage 1.1
Carrot 5.1
Cauliflower 1.5
Celery 0.8
Collard Greens 3.0
Cucumber 1.8
Eggplant 2.0
Garlic (1 clove) 1.0
Lettuce 0.5
Mushroom 1.0
Onion 4.0
Parsnip 9.0
Peas 6.5
Peppers, Green 3.4
Peppers, Red 3.3
Pickle (1 medium) 2.0
Pumpkin 6.3
Radish 0.5
Rutabaga 4.0
Spinach 0.2
Squash, Yellow 1.4
Tomato 3.2
Turnips 2.3
Zucchini 3.3

Also, you may find this general grouping helpful as a guide:


Leaves (almost zero carb)

Trace carbs are wrapped in so much fiber that there is little, if any, impact on blood sugar. They are rich in phytonutrients, vitamins and minerals. Examples: lettuce, spinach, Swiss chard, herbs.

Stems and Flowers (very low carb)

Some stem and flower vegetables are asparagus, cauliflower, broccoli and mushrooms.

Fruit (moderate carbs)

The fruit is the part of the plant that contains seeds. Botanically, this is the fruit of the plant, although we tend to call it “fruit” only if it’s sweet.

Examples of “fruit” include peppers, squashes of all types, green beans, tomatoes, okra, and eggplant. Avocado is also a fruit, but is lower in carbs than the others.

Roots (very high carb)

Many roots, such as parsnips, water chestnuts, potatoes, sweet potatoes and yams are high in carbs.

However, some are actually lower in carbs, such as jicama, radishes, celery root and carrots.

Do I take it your nutritionist has you on a limited time induction plan, with the intention of phasing more fruit and veg carbs back in later?

[Tyndmyr]

I find slices of cucumber to be handy as a bite sized snack food. The snack sized ziplock bags are a great portion size of them, and if you slice up a few bags at once, the others will last a couple of days in the fridge. Having 'em pre-sliced and ready to go seems to help for choosing healthy snacks. Any snack requiring preparation, I tend to forgo. Carrots I can do occasionally, but they seem to be further from that snack craving for me.

Tastes vary, of course, so what works for me may not work for you, but experiment a bunch and you'll get there!

[Honest Tiefling]

Yes, my nutritionist told me to.

That's a really good reason to throw my advice into the garbage then! Never tried the keto diet personally, but I have heard it works for a lot of folks.

Can the nutritionist recommend some supplements? They'd probably know the big ones to grab, and which ones you might personally need.

[Tvtyrant]

Do I take it your nutritionist has you on a limited time induction plan, with the intention of phasing more fruit and veg carbs back in later?

Yeah, we are on the "get below 360 then we will start stabilizing" plan. Doctor and nutritionist think that is going to be a big line to cross.

One of my issues right now is that I stopped losing weight a few weeks ago, and am skip ropeing between 175 and 180 pounds. I'm still losing fat visibly so I am hoping I that the weight lifting is just building muscle and once I hit a threshold there I will start losing weight again.


That's a really good reason to throw my advice into the garbage then! Never tried the keto diet personally, but I have heard it works for a lot of folks.

Can the nutritionist recommend some supplements? They'd probably know the big ones to grab, and which ones you might personally need.

The good thing is I am not a vegetarian or vegan, and I prefer meat to most other foods anyway. So I can do low carb long term without lifestyle hangups, its just the weird and noticeable deficiencies that have been getting to me recently.

That is a good point, I will ask her next time I see her.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Yeah, we are on the "get below 360 then we will start stabilizing" plan. Doctor and nutritionist think that is going to be a big line to cross.

One of my issues right now is that I stopped losing weight a few weeks ago, and am skip ropeing between 175 and 180 pounds.

This will probably seem a really stupid question in hindsight, but it looks like you want to get below 360 pounds, but are actually already below 180 pounds, which would make you noticeably lighter than me and depending on your size probably a good healthy weight. So, what am I reading wrong here? Is 180 pounds the amount lost? That doesn't seem to match the rest of the story. Is skip roping with heavy weights an exercise you do? Is one of those numbers in kilograms? Did you just mistype one or two digits somewhere in there?

On the great list posted by paddyfool: Wow, I was pretty off on my advice. See, that's why I'm not a nutritionist. Please everybody here stop listening to me. :smallwink:

[Tvtyrant]

This will probably seem a really stupid question in hindsight, but it looks like you want to get below 360 pounds, but are actually already below 180 pounds, which would make you noticeably lighter than me and depending on your size probably a good healthy weight. So, what am I reading wrong here? Is 180 pounds the amount lost? That doesn't seem to match the rest of the story. Is skip roping with heavy weights an exercise you do? Is one of those numbers in kilograms? Did you just mistype one or two digits somewhere in there?

On the great list posted by paddyfool: Wow, I was pretty off on my advice. See, that's why I'm not a nutritionist. Please everybody here stop listening to me. :smallwink:

Oh lord my Freudian typos.

I am 375-380 now (I am chalking that typo to wishful thinking), down from 420 in June. I am trying to get below 360, then we are going to adjust to a slightly higher carb ratio.

My current excercise regiment is walk 10,000 steps a day, weight lift 3xweek, 10 mile hike 1xweek (that was twice a week but the sun goes down quicker each week).

Current weights, each excercise is 3x10
Leg day:
Squat 180lbs (bad knees or it would be more)
Deadlift 275lb
Power clean 150lb
45 lb resistance bands for leg curls and extensions
35 lb reaches
2 minute bicycles (on back, legs over head doing bicycle motions)

Arm Day
Bench 165lb
Inclined bench 140lbs
Seated rows 200lb
Military Press some weight (we just started these)
55 lb skull crushers
Bicep curls 25 lbs each arm (tiny biceps, giant triceps)
3 1 minute planks
Reaches
Bicycles

All body day is friday, aND it changes from week to week as we haven't hammered out what we want there.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I am trying to get below 360, then we are going to adjust to a slightly higher carb ratio.

I have little more to add other than "figure out which vitamins you need, and see if doctor recommends targeting them with pills", which has been already said.

But I do want to say: good for you. I really hope this works out. And congratulations on your gains so far.

GW

[Tvtyrant]

I have little more to add other than "figure out which vitamins you need, and see if doctor recommends targeting them with pills", which has been already said.

But I do want to say: good for you. I really hope this works out. And congratulations on your gains so far.

GW

Thank you!


You may find this list helpful, for carbs per quarter cup (from here, along with parallel lists for fruit: http://lowcarbediem.com/atkins-low-carb-fruit-vegetable-list/ )



Also, you may find this general grouping helpful as a guide:


Yes, thank you!

You can see why it is hard to keep below 20 and eat enough veggies though, 1 cup of vegetables other than lettuce and the limit is hit.

Any advice on the working out aspect? We are looking at starting some flexibility training for fridays, since they are mostly empty and we are both now stiff old men.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

'm still losing fat visibly so I am hoping I that the weight lifting is just building muscle and once I hit a threshold there I will start losing weight again.

With the regimen you posted I would expect this is right. I have no benchmarks for this stuff other than knowing that one of the heavier external objects I ever lifted was around 200kg/440lbs, and that only had to go from about knee height 30 cm up ones (for a free beer, so definitely worth it), but just going by the looks of those numbers those look like respectable muscle building weights. Maybe start swimming or cycling (or rowing, or whatever you can do with the equipment you can find that will work with someone who goes over the standard competition weight a bit, my single speed city bicycle breaks down all the time) at some point to supplement the hiking (considering the weak knees), looks like you have your work cut out for you.

[Tvtyrant]

With the regimen you posted I would expect this is right. I have no benchmarks for this stuff other than knowing that one of the heavier external objects I ever lifted was around 200kg/440lbs, and that only had to go from about knee height 30 cm up ones (for a free beer, so definitely worth it), but just going by the looks of those numbers those look like respectable muscle building weights. Maybe start swimming or cycling (or rowing, or whatever you can do with the equipment you can find that will work with someone who goes over the standard competition weight a bit, my single speed city bicycle breaks down all the time) at some point to supplement the hiking (considering the weak knees), looks like you have your work cut out for you.

I use trekking poles, it keeps the pressure off of my knees. Going to start snowshoeing as soon as the snow starts.

Rowing seems great, I just need a way to transport a boat (I have a perfect one and the oars). My tiny gallant can't really tow my 150lb boat.

[Icewraith]

... anything that tastes like fat, but I'm not sure I even know a vegetable example of that.

Closest I can think of is Avocado, which is still a fruit.

[Tvtyrant]

Closest I can think of is Avocado, which is still a fruit.

Thankfully there are buttery nuts, like cashews. I find that a 60/40 cashew to almond split is the best, if you split it evenly you end up hunting out the cashews but you need the almonds to offset the butteryness.

[Anonymouswizard]

Just posting to say that I'm also trying to lose weight (my top value was a bit over 260 pounds, I'm on the way down again), ideally somewhere just below 100 pounds I reckon to get to the 150-160 range, and I used to have one of the weirder problems.

Now generally I tend to lose weight when at home, and I'm at home now, so it's not too hard (when I can remember not to snack), and I'm doing WeightWatchers because I've got no need to lose it quickly. But when I was away I was with people my age who, let me be frank here, have no idea how fat is fat. People would say 'no you're just a bit overweight' when I was less morbidly obese, to the point where I eventually started correcting people.

I think I'm going to have to take up exercise as well, but I'm not in a great position for it right now. At least I walk a lot so I know that I can still manage to get around every day (compared to some people I know of a similar weight, who get out of breath on the tube, I'm rather fit), but I'll see if I can add in any weights or cardio.

[paddyfool]

Anonymouswizard,

Generally speaking, if you're looking to exercise more as a heavy person, you'd best go for joint-friendly exercise (e.g. walking especially Nordic-style ie using poles, cycling especially recumbant, swimming, aqua aerobics, rowing, kayaking, yoga, pilates, basic core exercise e.g. planks, climbing, most forms of dance), but avoid too much of anything that involves a lot of running or other hard impacts / knee stress. At least until you've got a little weight off and muscle on around your core and above and below your hips and knees. Then when you've got a bit stronger, maybe look at weights or martial arts or whatever else tickles your fancy.

[Anonymouswizard]

Anonymouswizard,

Generally speaking, if you're looking to exercise more as a heavy person, you'd best go for joint-friendly exercise (e.g. walking especially Nordic-style ie using poles, cycling especially recumbant, swimming, aqua aerobics, rowing, kayaking, yoga, pilates, basic core exercise e.g. planks, climbing, most forms of dance), but avoid too much of anything that involves a lot of running or other hard impacts / knee stress. At least until you've got a little weight off and muscle on around your core and above and below your hips and knees. Then when you've got a bit stronger, maybe look at weights or martial arts or whatever else tickles your fancy.

Eh, I'm not exactly light on muscle mass due to having done a lot of walking while at university. But I'm going to be looking up exercises when my brain's not full of JavaScript.

[Tvtyrant]

Eh, I'm not exactly light on muscle mass due to having done a lot of walking while at university. But I'm going to be looking up exercises when my brain's not full of JavaScript.

It's the joints that are the bigget problem, humans are designed to weigh roughly 100 pounds less than you and 250 pounds less than me, so the knees, back and ankles wear out if you do trail running or wind sprints.

Personally I do nordoc walking and cross country skiing.

[Solaris]

It's the joints that are the bigget problem, humans are designed to weigh roughly 100 pounds less than you and 250 pounds less than me, so the knees, back and ankles wear out if you do trail running or wind sprints.

Personally I do nordoc walking and cross country skiing.

This.
You can have piles of muscle; that's not going to help the damage from high-impact exercises. The best it'll do is keep your knees from completely blowing out (and that's if you have good, strong stabilizer muscles there - having good stabilizers isn't a given if you got your strength through weight-lifting rather than calisthenics and athletics, for example). I'm at 150-165 lb. in fighting trim, but running around wearing 80+ pounds of gear for a few years has given me some pretty interesting knee, hip, and back problems. Imagine what it'll do if it's more weight, and you can't just take it off at the end of the day. If you want to be able to pick up your grandkids and be able to get around without a walker, do low impact exercises when you want to lose weight.

Tvtyrant, who do you have exercising with you in the gym? Form is crucially important for avoiding injury and maximizing gains, and it's a lot easier for another person to spot mistakes in form than it is for us to notice them ourselves. There's nothing more demoralizing when it comes to making progress than being laid up for a couple of weeks because you blew out your knee or some such.
Gaining muscle mass is a good thing and a good way to go about losing weight, because muscle burns fat faster by raising your metabolic consumption of calories even when you're not actively exercising. Being as you've been at it a while I'm fairly confident you're not pushing yourself too hard, but for anyone reading this it's important to make sure you don't over-exert yourself while exercising (sounds kinda counter-intuitive, doesn't it?). Train to exhaustion, train to muscle failure, but do not train 'til you puke, pass out, or get lightheaded and loopy. Those last three are signs of heat injury/dehydration, and that's not the goal you're wanting to achieve.

[Tvtyrant]

Tvtyrant, who do you have exercising with you in the gym? Form is crucially important for avoiding injury and maximizing gains, and it's a lot easier for another person to spot mistakes in form than it is for us to notice them ourselves. There's nothing more demoralizing when it comes to making progress than being laid up for a couple of weeks because you blew out your knee or some such.
Gaining muscle mass is a good thing and a good way to go about losing weight, because muscle burns fat faster by raising your metabolic consumption of calories even when you're not actively exercising. Being as you've been at it a while I'm fairly confident you're not pushing yourself too hard, but for anyone reading this it's important to make sure you don't over-exert yourself while exercising (sounds kinda counter-intuitive, doesn't it?). Train to exhaustion, train to muscle failure, but do not train 'til you puke, pass out, or get lightheaded and loopy. Those last three are signs of heat injury/dehydration, and that's not the goal you're wanting to achieve.

My hiking partner. He has the opposite problem as me, being anorexic. He weighed 130 as a 30 year old that is 6ft before we started out, and rarely eats (thankfully he is going up with the weight lifting, which makes him eat more).

We get some help from the local football coach, my partner being a teacher, and I worked out through my undergraduate years so we are decent with forms and not pushing too hard. Although honestly I can't go too fast because he can't save me if I fail on a big lift :/

[Knaight]

It's the joints that are the bigget problem, humans are designed to weigh roughly 100 pounds less than you and 250 pounds less than me, so the knees, back and ankles wear out if you do trail running or wind sprints.

Although there is the matter of height here - 260 pounds at 5'0" (regardless of musculature) is enough to damage joints, 260 pounds at 7'0" is pretty normal for in shape athletes.

[Anonymouswizard]

It's the joints that are the bigget problem, humans are designed to weigh roughly 100 pounds less than you and 250 pounds less than me, so the knees, back and ankles wear out if you do trail running or wind sprints.

Personally I do nordoc walking and cross country skiing.

Yeah, on the other hand I actually enjoy running and wish I owned a treadmill (nowhere to put the thing though). But I should be able to do weights, I did some at this weight a few years ago with no problems, and if I can get access to a cross trainer or the like that should let me do Cardio with few problems.


Although there is the matter of height here - 260 pounds at 5'0" (regardless of musculature) is enough to damage joints, 260 pounds at 7'0" is pretty normal for in shape athletes.

Well I'm 5'7'', so there might be some risk? Not in a massive position to do cardio yet anyway.

[Knaight]

Well I'm 5'7'', so there might be some risk? Not in a massive position to do cardio yet anyway.

That does suggest that swimming and cycling are better options.

[Anonymouswizard]

That does suggest that swimming and cycling are better options.

Nonononononononononononononono. If I was an RPG character I'd have taken low dexterity coupled with poor sense of balance*, I feel like I'm going to fall over enough when on my own two feat.

Swimming I'd get back into if there was anywhere to do it here. Hopefully I'll see today if I've lost any weight over the past couple of weeks.

* Among my other disadvantages, which include such gems as poor depth perception, headaches without vision correction, hindered sense of smell, and lowered empathic perception. I worked out my player is a munchkin a couple of years ago.

[Knaight]

Nonononononononononononononono. If I was an RPG character I'd have taken low dexterity coupled with poor sense of balance*, I feel like I'm going to fall over enough when on my own two feat.

The bike actively corrects your balance for you, assuming that you're not trying to do track stands. It's actually really hard to fall off a bike in normal conditions, and I don't remember recommending mountain biking or riding on ice.

I mean, they're fun, but that doesn't make it a good idea.

[Tvtyrant]

Yeah, on the other hand I actually enjoy running and wish I owned a treadmill (nowhere to put the thing though). But I should be able to do weights, I did some at this weight a few years ago with no problems, and if I can get access to a cross trainer or the like that should let me do Cardio with few problems.



Well I'm 5'7'', so there might be some risk? Not in a massive position to do cardio yet anyway.

We don't have an envy emoji so...

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/fma/images/d/d1/7s_envy.png/revision/latest?cb=20140622215303

I hate running with a passion. Nothing quite like the feeling of your heart screaming at you while your lungs inform you they can't fill up fast enough while getting passed by a kid on a tricycle.

[Solaris]

Nonononononononononononononono. If I was an RPG character I'd have taken low dexterity coupled with poor sense of balance*, I feel like I'm going to fall over enough when on my own two feat.

My wife is terribly clumsy, too. The problem she has with riding a bike is ridiculously low muscle strength coupled with hesitation. When she forgets to be scared of the damned thing and just pedals, she can ride it.
And hey, if all else fails there's the stationary bicycle at the gym. At 5'7" and over 200 lb, you do not want to be doing something as high-impact as running on the regular, especially running on asphalt or other hard surfaces. Not if you want to keep your knees.

As for not being in a position to exercise... I really wouldn't discount the advantage of taking fifteen minutes a day to do some calisthenics. If you're not slacking off while you're doing it, it really will pay out.


We don't have an envy emoji so...

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/fma/images/d/d1/7s_envy.png/revision/latest?cb=20140622215303

I hate running with a passion. Nothing quite like the feeling of your heart screaming at you while your lungs inform you they can't fill up fast enough while getting passed by a kid on a tricycle.

It gets better as you get better at it. Time was when I could run a couple miles in ten minutes - when I was in good shape, running was a breeze and actually rather enjoyable, especially compared to other forms of exercise. Right now, though, you've got some physiological constraints that make running... less than fun.


My hiking partner. He has the opposite problem as me, being anorexic. He weighed 130 as a 30 year old that is 6ft before we started out, and rarely eats (thankfully he is going up with the weight lifting, which makes him eat more).

We get some help from the local football coach, my partner being a teacher, and I worked out through my undergraduate years so we are decent with forms and not pushing too hard. Although honestly I can't go too fast because he can't save me if I fail on a big lift :/

Good!
It sounds to me like you've gotten pretty much everything squared away, and I can't think of any ways to improve your regimen. Outstanding work.

On the topic of general health, how are you with gardening? My wife observed that, once I started sticking seeds in pots and growing things out of them, we started eating a lot healthier. We're coming up on winter now, so that's not something to start right away, but it's certainly something to think about when springtime rolls around. Even living in an apartment (as I am) you can grow tomatoes, herbs, peppers, and strawberries out of reasonably-sized pots in the 1-2 gallon range. Blueberries don't seem particularly thrilled about it, but they've at least put out some berries. Citrus do well enough in pots, but those things take forever to ripen. The ones I've gotten the most benefit out of have been the leafier herbs (dill didn't really thrive, but basil and rosemary are doing fine), leafy vegetables (shallow root systems, natch), and a couple of dirt-cheap serrano pepper bushes I bought at Wal-Mart for $5 each that have more than made their money back in ripe serranos and will keep paying off if I can manage to keep them alive indoors over the winter.
The downside is that now I'm really noticing how meh grocery store produce really is.


Although there is the matter of height here - 260 pounds at 5'0" (regardless of musculature) is enough to damage joints, 260 pounds at 7'0" is pretty normal for in shape athletes.

Those athletes still have a serious tendency towards musculoskeletal injury. The taller you are, the bigger you are, the more likely you are to get injured. Unfortunately, not everyone can be the ideal height of 5'7" like myself, so we have to adjust what we do to compensate. 'S what I did when we got the big-and-tall fellow reassigned to my squad; he'd gotten knee injuries and shin splints from the halfwits in his old platoon running him like he was a li'l guy to try and get him to lose weight. If you're a sedentary sort like mot Americans are, you don't have the bones to go out and run 3-5 miles every other day. I adjusted the PT regimen to include a lot more wind sprints and other exercises that had less of a duration and more breaks in between, retrained his stride, watched him to make sure he didn't start limping while we ran, that sort of thing. It's all doable, just not doable the same way for every body type - and you need to be cognizant of potential foibles. Exercise is all about suffering in the now for the long-term payoff later; it doesn't make sense to undermine that entirely by exercising in a way that can lead to long-term damage.

[Anonymouswizard]

We don't have an envy emoji so...

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/fma/images/d/d1/7s_envy.png/revision/latest?cb=20140622215303

I hate running with a passion. Nothing quite like the feeling of your heart screaming at you while your lungs inform you they can't fill up fast enough while getting passed by a kid on a tricycle.

I'm not kidding, I often forget that I'm supposed to walk and break into a light run, and love doing a proper ten minute treadmill workout. Yes, I get out of breath, but it's the good kind where I feel like it was worth it and anyway, I'll be done in ten minutes. I can't do long distance running, but my plan when I lose this weight is to keep it off by ideally taking up sprinting. It's what happens when you get into the habit of breaking into a 30 second or minute long run regularly, I can keep a proper run up for the better part of two minutes without a problem.


My wife is terribly clumsy, too. The problem she has with riding a bike is ridiculously low muscle strength coupled with hesitation. When she forgets to be scared of the damned thing and just pedals, she can ride it.
And hey, if all else fails there's the stationary bicycle at the gym. At 5'7" and over 200 lb, you do not want to be doing something as high-impact as running on the regular, especially running on asphalt or other hard surfaces. Not if you want to keep your knees.

As for not being in a position to exercise... I really wouldn't discount the advantage of taking fifteen minutes a day to do some calisthenics. If you're not slacking off while you're doing it, it really will pay out.

Oh, I'm perfectly capable of it, but I can't get past the sensation that I'm going to tip over. It's why I can do spinning (the stationary bikes) but not actual cycling.

But yeah, maybe I shouldn't run regularly. I'll look into seeing if there's some form of cardio I can do that won't deknee me.

[GloatingSwine]

Swimming.

Swimming is great cardio no matter your weight, no joint impact and full body exercise because you use arms and legs to propel yourself through a resistive medium.

[paddyfool]

I think the actual knee injury risk from running depends a lot on technique and training method. The risk is always there, but how bad it is depends a lot on how you run. Could be worth looking into specific training if it's what you like and you aren't getting knee pain.

[Honest Tiefling]

On the topic of general health, how are you with gardening? My wife observed that, once I started sticking seeds in pots and growing things out of them, we started eating a lot healthier.

I personally hate gardening myself, but I have heard that growing your own lettuce makes it taste much better. You can also try different varieties of lettuce since you mentioned that one might fit your diet.

Just make sure that the wild life doesn't eat it. Or get some exercise spraying deer with a hose?

[Solaris]

I think the actual knee injury risk from running depends a lot on technique and training method. The risk is always there, but how bad it is depends a lot on how you run. Could be worth looking into specific training if it's what you like and you aren't getting knee pain.

At his height, weight, and build? There's no technique improvement you can use to avoid increased injury risk. Not that developing a good technique isn't a good idea, mind, but still. I'm speaking from experience on this one.


I personally hate gardening myself...

Heretic! Blasphemer!


...but I have heard that growing your own lettuce makes it taste much better. You can also try different varieties of lettuce since you mentioned that one might fit your diet.

Very much so. Iceberg lettuce is mostly water and worthlessness. Lettuce is also rather easy to grow with minimal maintenance and is pretty forgiving about how much sunlight it gets, which is another plus. Just don't let it bolt, 'cause most leafy vegetables and herbs get bitter if they flower.
Another leafy green that grows well in containers? Arugula. My wife loves the stuff, too. Borage likes a bigger pot that it can put some serious roots in, but its leaves taste just like cucumber and the flowers are rather pretty - it doesn't get bitter when it flowers, either, which is nice. I put some plants in the 15-gallon pot with my Japanese maple to take up standing water, and they just about exploded.


Just make sure that the wild life doesn't eat it. Or get some exercise spraying deer with a hose?

It's a lot easier to protect things growing in pots. For example, I bring in my strawberry plants when they're about to ripen so the varmints don't get them.
With lettuce, you really need to watch out for rabbits - deer are a bit situational. There are some tricks you can find online, but I haven't had to battle the little buggers yet so can't offer much advice there.

[GloatingSwine]

I think the actual knee injury risk from running depends a lot on technique and training method. The risk is always there, but how bad it is depends a lot on how you run.

Eh, whilst that's likely true in the right conditions, having a lot of weight above the knee means that you are going to cause a lot of impact on the knees when running, no matter your technique.

[Honest Tiefling]

Heretic! Blasphemer!

Hey, not a lot of room to grow things in. As far as I'm concerned, I'm saving room for others.


It's a lot easier to protect things growing in pots. For example, I bring in my strawberry plants when they're about to ripen so the varmints don't get them.
With lettuce, you really need to watch out for rabbits - deer are a bit situational. There are some tricks you can find online, but I haven't had to battle the little buggers yet so can't offer much advice there.

We might live in different areas. No rabbits here but I'm in the suburbs. Slugs and deer are more likely then bunnies. Keep in mind that the deer here will eat most flowers, so a pot on a patio they can access will not deter them in the slightest.

Gardening will also get you out of the house and some fresh air, which surely can't hurt. Getting proper amounts of sunlight is important, as my doctor keeps reminding me.

[Knaight]

Very much so. Iceberg lettuce is mostly water and worthlessness.

It's not exactly hard to find Romaine lettuce, which has much more flavor.

With that said: I don't mind iceberg lettuce. It fills a niche similar to that of celery, more for texture than anything else and can be good in that role. It's when it gets used the way one might use more flavorful leafy vegetables (all other lettuces, spinach) that it doesn't work well. That this happens often doesn't reflect on the vegetable so much as the vegetable market.

[paddyfool]

*Borage likes a bigger pot that it can put some serious roots in, but its leaves taste*just*like cucumber and the flowers are rather pretty - it doesn't get bitter when it flowers, either, which is nice.

Plus the cute thing about it is that the flowers themselves are edible.

[Solaris]

Hey, not a lot of room to grow things in. As far as I'm concerned, I'm saving room for others.

I live in a one-bedroom apartment with a fairly small patio. I improvised. The herbs and snack things did well enough that we only needed to buy the kinds I didn't grow, like cumin.
My wife's a little concerned about what I might do when we finally manage something with an actual yard, much less get myself a greenhouse.


We might live in different areas. No rabbits here but I'm in the suburbs. Slugs and deer are more likely then bunnies. Keep in mind that the deer here will eat most flowers, so a pot on a patio they can access will not deter them in the slightest.

Gardening will also get you out of the house and some fresh air, which surely can't hurt. Getting proper amounts of sunlight is important, as my doctor keeps reminding me.

Are you sure you don't have rabbits? A lot of people miss just how much of a rabbit population they have because the critters are pretty good at not getting noticed. I've never seen any where I live (although I have spotted a few other varmints), but that hasn't stopped the little bastards from eating my mulberry seedlings.

The deer are pretty ballsy where you live. Here they stay a bit farther out from development; I don't think I've seen one within a mile of my apartment complex. That's a mercy, too - they love to murder apple and maple saplings.
The wife apparently thought I was joking when my response to her protesting that we didn't have the room for the trees was "CHALLENGE ACCEPTED". I learned her good!


Plus the cute thing about it is that the flowers themselves are edible.

They are! And they're blue, too, which is pretty neat. I was actually growing mine mainly for the flowers to use as a garnish on my wife's lemonberry pies (think "lemon meringue without the meringue, add berries" - and next year they're going to be made with my own grown strawberries, raspberries, and lemons), but derped on pot size until about two months ago and am only just now seeing flowers. Those suckers really do get pissy if they can't send their tap root down at least a good foot.
Reportedly, the flowers are sweet with a honey-like taste. I do know that if you sniff 'em the morning they first open, they have a pleasantly cinnamon-like scent to them. I'm not wanting to eat my flowers this year on account of wanting to get seeds out of 'em for next year's planting.

A surprising number of flowers are edible (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_edible_flowers). Roses, for example, although my wife's rose is one of the bitter varieties... and she said I'm not allowed to eat her rose anyways. Onion flowers are actually pretty good, although the onion-and-garlic family do not get along with me in the slightest when I'm trying to grow the little buggers. Turns out tubers don't do well in pots.

[Honest Tiefling]

Are you sure you don't have rabbits? A lot of people miss just how much of a rabbit population they have because the critters are pretty good at not getting noticed. I've never seen any where I live (although I have spotted a few other varmints), but that hasn't stopped the little bastards from eating my mulberry seedlings.

Not sure how I'd check for those to be honest. Through I'd rather not detract from TVTyrant's thread, if you don't mind chatting about this some more.

[Tvtyrant]

Recently dropped another 5 pounds after a month long plateau. I keep bouncing and dropping each week, my nutritionist believes I am collecting water weight.

So my bounce went from 375-378 down to 370-375, I usually lose weight over the weekend and gain it over the week.

[Honest Tiefling]

Congratulations, Tvtyrant. Good to hear you're doing good!

[Tvtyrant]

Congratulations, Tvtyrant. Good to hear you're doing good!

Thanks!

Feeling super ground down for no reason though. Losing weight is hard.

[Corsair14]

I have been working out heavily for about 4 going on 5 years. I fight SCA and wanted to pull off a gladiator persona but being overweight I didn't want to look like my squire brother in our fighting kit, he was more overweight than I was. I am 6'4"(so I find your ideal height of 5'7" somewhat amusing) and weighed 274 when I started work(oddly also I got married 5 years ago... correlation? hmmmm). I am also in the military and was getting nailed on my waist measurement even though I maxed push ups and sit ups and passed the run. Its a flat 39" waist for the PT test, above that you fail, you can max at 31 or 32" or something impossible for someone my build to ever get to. So I started with p90x3 and then Combat cardio. I was able to drop to my low of 254 and dropped from a 42" waist to a 36.5". That was cool and all but I hated getting up that early and working out in the living room. So I joined a gym 3.5 years ago and started weight lifting. I jumped up immediately taking bad advice like the whole twice your weight in grams of protein that is still bandied about, creatine is good for you, take some with your protein. I was back again to the upper 260s in no time. Sure I was putting on muscle but you couldn't see it. So I stopped creatine, went down to one dedicated protein shake a day immediately after a workout and I dropped into the low 260s. A little better.

But the biggest change I have noticed visually although no sign of it on a scale was in the last several months I have added a half hour+ of cardio a day into my workout. Either on an elliptical or I go swim a mile. Much improvement and I can see it. The swimming especially works the shoulders and the waist. Talking to some actually professional models and such, they agree with me that weights or cardio alone wont do it. Combining the two is by far the best way to slim down(I wont say lose weight since they aren't the same thing). Dude I have crappy knees and feet from my time in the army so I don't run unless I am working up for a PT test in the AF. The elliptical is a life saver but swimming, while boring is awesome.

[Tvtyrant]

I have been working out heavily for about 4 going on 5 years. I fight SCA and wanted to pull off a gladiator persona but being overweight I didn't want to look like my squire brother in our fighting kit, he was more overweight than I was. I am 6'4"(so I find your ideal height of 5'7" somewhat amusing) and weighed 274 when I started work(oddly also I got married 5 years ago... correlation? hmmmm). I am also in the military and was getting nailed on my waist measurement even though I maxed push ups and sit ups and passed the run. Its a flat 39" waist for the PT test, above that you fail, you can max at 31 or 32" or something impossible for someone my build to ever get to. So I started with p90x3 and then Combat cardio. I was able to drop to my low of 254 and dropped from a 42" waist to a 36.5". That was cool and all but I hated getting up that early and working out in the living room. So I joined a gym 3.5 years ago and started weight lifting. I jumped up immediately taking bad advice like the whole twice your weight in grams of protein that is still bandied about, creatine is good for you, take some with your protein. I was back again to the upper 260s in no time. Sure I was putting on muscle but you couldn't see it. So I stopped creatine, went down to one dedicated protein shake a day immediately after a workout and I dropped into the low 260s. A little better.

But the biggest change I have noticed visually although no sign of it on a scale was in the last several months I have added a half hour+ of cardio a day into my workout. Either on an elliptical or I go swim a mile. Much improvement and I can see it. The swimming especially works the shoulders and the waist. Talking to some actually professional models and such, they agree with me that weights or cardio alone wont do it. Combining the two is by far the best way to slim down(I wont say lose weight since they aren't the same thing). Dude I have crappy knees and feet from my time in the army so I don't run unless I am working up for a PT test in the AF. The elliptical is a life saver but swimming, while boring is awesome.

32'? That seems fairly impossible for anyone with a naturally large frame. Like the large foot test, just seems unreasonable. (I am a size 15 for shoes btw).

[Corsair14]

Very unrealistic. Why I will never get close to perfect on the PT test even if my feet were in better condition to run. People like to post "Arnold was 34" when he competed so you can do it too." Yeah he was competing at the end of a hyper intense cut phase, had next to no body fat for energy stores and likely would have ripped someones arm off while taking a burger from them at that point. He might have passed the tape test but would fail the rest with lack of stamina from semi-starving.

[Algeh]

So...I have a pretty stupid question for those of you who keep suggesting swimming. How do you get around the fact that you're not supposed to swim alone? It's past the pool season here now, but I have a pool at my new place and I enjoy swimming, I just only get to do it on rare occasions because I live alone so I have no one to keep an eye on me in the water.

[paddyfool]

Very unrealistic. Why I will never get close to perfect on the PT test even if my feet were in better condition to run. People like to post "Arnold was 34" when he competed so you can do it too." Yeah he was competing at the end of a hyper intense cut phase, had next to no body fat for energy stores and likely would have ripped someones arm off while taking a burger from them at that point. He might have passed the tape test but would fail the rest with lack of stamina from semi-starving.

Arnold is also only 6'1 or 6'2, and waist circumference is generally considered in proportion to your height, with an ideal being no more than 50% of your height (so no more than 38" if you're 6'4). At 32", you're getting into underweight territory (for a well muscled dude the ideal range should be 45 to 50% of your height, so anything from 34" to 38" for a 6'4 guy; for slimmer physique overall, it's fine to go down to 40%, but less than that is definitely underweight).

[Corsair14]

Um, unless you have some kind of issues, swimming in a pool alone is perfectly safe. I wouldn't do open water here in Fl due to numerous hazards but a pool is fine. I don't think those "rules" are more for kids horse playing and not someone swimming laps. If I had to wait for someone to be in the pool area with me I would never be able to get in the water at 615 in the morning when I go.

Air Force doesn't care what your height or age is or if you work out. It a flat male is x - y and female is x - y regardless of age. I managed 36.5 last test which I think was good for me. I would look like a concentration camp survivor if I lost more size there. If I had the will power to do a real cut phase I could easily drop it lower but wouldn't have the power to pass the rest of the test.

A professional level cut phase will drop your waste line extremely drastically along with every other bit of fat you have. Its why those big body builders look so freakish, hate to say it, women especially. But they aren't doing it for aesthetical beauty, they are doing it to show muscle, thus removing as much subcutaneous fat that they can. Give them a week after the competition and normal eating and they look fairly buff normal. Its actually fairly unhealthy long term which is why they don't look like that except for competition. Also destroys their energy stores since they have no fat and they cant do a lot of strenuous activity. This is opposite of say strong man competitions where the dudes look like absolute fatasses since they need so much energy to power their muscles. I always kind of wondered what one of those dudes would look like in a before/after pic strong man comp followed say a month later by a physique comp.

[Tvtyrant]

So...I have a pretty stupid question for those of you who keep suggesting swimming. How do you get around the fact that you're not supposed to swim alone? It's past the pool season here now, but I have a pool at my new place and I enjoy swimming, I just only get to do it on rare occasions because I live alone so I have no one to keep an eye on me in the water.

The usual answer is find someone to do it with you. That or go to a public pool with a life guard.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

How do you get around the fact that you're not supposed to swim alone?

... I've never heard of this fact. So I just don't follow it. If you are that concerned, I recommend you swim with a lifejacket. It will make the swimming just slightly less exercise-y (and not even by that much), but it will remove the danger of drowning (which I assume is what the "always have someone there" is meant to address?).

Grey Wolf

[paddyfool]

Air Force doesn't care what your height or age is or if you work out. It a flat male is x - y and female is x - y regardless of age. I managed 36.5 last test which I think was good for me. I would look like a concentration camp survivor if I lost more size there. If I had the will power to do a real cut phase I could easily drop it lower but wouldn't have the power to pass the rest of the test.

Fairly daft of the air force, since for every 2" of height your waist circumference should increase by 1". 36" is a good target for dudes over 6 foot.

[Knaight]

So...I have a pretty stupid question for those of you who keep suggesting swimming. How do you get around the fact that you're not supposed to swim alone? It's past the pool season here now, but I have a pool at my new place and I enjoy swimming, I just only get to do it on rare occasions because I live alone so I have no one to keep an eye on me in the water.

I blow it off entirely - plus it doesn't really apply if the water is shallow enough that you can stand on the bottom and just walk out of the pool/river/whatever.

[paddyfool]

Regarding not swimming alone: personally I only use public pools, so this has never been an issue. But I think it could be safe enough if you're careful and have no medical contraindications (e.g. prior seizures). Or put up a post on a local board saying you're looking for a swim training buddy.

Going back to the back issues, these are quite a good set of exercises for back protection and pain prevention: https://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/psychosocial/backexercises.html

[Tvtyrant]

So I did a 15 mile hike 2 weeks ago, tweaked my back a bit and it twinges from time to time. Makes certain postures painful, especially hunched sitting (the best kind!)

Anyone have any suggestions for persistent backache (besides losing weight, doing that as fast as I can).

On the plus side, I finally dropped to 360 and managed to do a 15 mile hike in five hours, so major improvements there.

[AMFV]

32'? That seems fairly impossible for anyone with a naturally large frame. Like the large foot test, just seems unreasonable. (I am a size 15 for shoes btw).
That's why the US uses that neck to waist rather than a straight waist. So like if you're a dude with naturally larger bone structure he you can do better because your neck will be bigger. I don't know how they do it wherever he's from but that seems like a really kooky way to do it.

Edit: apparently the USAF doesn't do neck measurements which is really odd. That seems bad since it's a DOD standard.

[Jormengand]

Yes, my nutritionist told me to.

I should point out that you might need to be careful here - I don't know what country you're from, but in some countries such as the United Kingdom the title "Nutritionist" isn't a protected title. I won't get into the legal details for mutliple reasons, but basically it means that anyone can call themselves a nutritionist. That is, I could just as easily call myself a nutritionist, and so could a ten-year-old. This doesn't necessarily mean that the person you're seeing isn't qualified, but it's something to watch out for.

[Tvtyrant]

I should point out that you might need to be careful here - I don't know what country you're from, but in some countries such as the United Kingdom the title "Nutritionist" isn't a protected title. I won't get into the legal details for mutliple reasons, but basically it means that anyone can call themselves a nutritionist. That is, I could just as easily call myself a nutritionist, and so could a ten-year-old. This doesn't necessarily mean that the person you're seeing isn't qualified, but it's something to watch out for.

No worries. Mine was recommended by my doctor, things have worked extremely well with the diet, and I double check everything with my doctor before making major changes.

[Jormengand]

No worries. Mine was recommended by my doctor, things have worked extremely well with the diet, and I double check everything with my doctor before making major changes.

That's fair enough. It's just something I want to make certain people are aware of, particularly because I've seen people duped by it before.

[Douglas]

That's why the US uses that neck to waist rather than a straight waist. So like if you're a dude with naturally larger bone structure he you can do better because your neck will be bigger. I don't know how they do it wherever he's from but that seems like a really kooky way to do it.

Edit: apparently the USAF doesn't do neck measurements which is really odd. That seems bad since it's a DOD standard.
For the Air Force, it might be partly a matter of whether you can physically fit into the pilot seat and (if necessary) safely go through the ejection opening, etc., rather than just how physically fit you are. That kind of requirement would be an absolute measurement, not relative.

[Knaight]

I should point out that you might need to be careful here - I don't know what country you're from, but in some countries such as the United Kingdom the title "Nutritionist" isn't a protected title. I won't get into the legal details for mutliple reasons, but basically it means that anyone can call themselves a nutritionist. That is, I could just as easily call myself a nutritionist, and so could a ten-year-old. This doesn't necessarily mean that the person you're seeing isn't qualified, but it's something to watch out for.

"Dietitian is the legally protected term - dietitian is like dentist; nutritionist is like toothiologist", to quote (or possibly paraphrase, this is from memory) Dara O'Brian's comedy.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

"Dietitian is the legally protected term - dietitian is like dentist; nutritionist is like toothiologist", to quote (or possibly paraphrase, this is from memory) Dara O'Brian's comedy.

Excellent memory. Practically word for word (I'd have put in a few ellipsis to indicate his pauses, but that's style, not substance)

I suspect all three of us were thinking, in fact, of the same exact skit:

(skip to 3:53)

https://youtu.be/uRqB5-egs1s?t=233

Grey Wolf

[Jormengand]

I suspect all three of us were thinking, in fact, of the same exact skit

I wasn't: I was thinking of Ben Goldacre's excellent book Bad Science, where he goes into faux-nutrition, and other examples of pseudoscience, in great detail.

[Knaight]

Excellent memory. Practically word for word (I'd have put in a few ellipsis to indicate his pauses, but that's style, not substance)

I might have seen that particular skit a few times.

[AMFV]

For the Air Force, it might be partly a matter of whether you can physically fit into the pilot seat and (if necessary) safely go through the ejection opening, etc., rather than just how physically fit you are. That kind of requirement would be an absolute measurement, not relative.

Nope they have a sub requirements that are job-specific for people that have job specific requirements. But like if you're an Air Force Security Officer or an Air Force admin clerk you don't have to fit through the Jackson Hole cover any more than like an admin person in your local office might have to


It's probably because of whatever whoever is in charge of the Air Force thinks looks best in uniform.

[Tvtyrant]

Before and after progress. First two are at my heaviest, third one is today (been working outside and have helmet hair so hat.) Apologies about the picture quality, my phone has a crappy camera.



May:
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16265778_10100206739559354_2418687461927682237_n.j pg?oh=62216642e0d9acc7ee7f4178ae5481e2&oe=5A989C86

August: (started dieting in June)
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14022314_10100122942231730_5748115974149668324_n.j pg?oh=4e23c8b620fb58efcfb72669ce318834&oe=5A9A3346

Today:
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/24173202_10210829390187041_8854167604250345307_o.j pg?oh=e0ff0c9f05e7badad26759ff3a915239&oe=5AD49C1C

Waist size dropped from 52 to 44, my tummy isn't shrinking as much.

[Douglas]

Looks like some good progress, the third picture doesn't have nearly the obvious bulge that the first one does. It's still there, but it doesn't stick out as much.

For some reason the second one looks a great deal fatter than either of the other two. Maybe it's because of the viewing angle or posture?

[Tvtyrant]

Looks like some good progress, the third picture doesn't have nearly the obvious bulge that the first one does. It's still there, but it doesn't stick out as much.

For some reason the second one looks a great deal fatter than either of the other two. Maybe it's because of the viewing angle or posture?

I think I put them in the wrong order. Picture 2 was in May, 1 was August and 3 is today. So by picture one you can see improvements. I will rearrange them as such.

In order now.

[Douglas]

In that case your progress is quite a bit more pronounced than I had thought. Good work!

[Sivarias]

I'm digging this thread. TvTyrant do you mind if we turn this into a general fitness thread. For questions/support?

I've been looking for one for a while, and I bet others are too.

[Tvtyrant]

I'm digging this thread. TvTyrant do you mind if we turn this into a general fitness thread. For questions/support?

I've been looking for one for a while, and I bet others are too.
Not at all! The more the merrier!

[Sivarias]

Not at all! The more the merrier!

Well, with that endorsement I think I might jump in here.

I'm going to start trying to phase into better eating habits.

My ultimate health goals are
No more sugary drinks
Cook all my meals
Gym 5x a week lifting heavy
180g protein / day
100g carbs / day
1500-1800 Calories / day

I've been able to dial all those in before, and the results were great. Unfortunately I had a bad reaction to some meds and it all went out the window.

I'm on new meds now and I've been told flat out that I'm going to be really moody for 3 weeks, high on dopamine and feeling like a greek god for 3 weeks, and I should float back down to normal after that and stabilize.

The plan is to start dialing in the first two goals in the next 3 weeks or so, then start working out around week 3. Once I'm working out and I have the energy back I'll be able to start worrying about macros and making sure I'm hitting actual calorie goals besides "eat healthier".

[Vinyadan]

Five heavy workouts a week look like a lot to me. What is your aim?

[Sivarias]

I'm still young so I wanna build heavy muscle, use it as a base for martial arts

I'm also currently 42% BF so there's a bit of multitasking.

[Tvtyrant]

I'm still young so I wanna build heavy muscle, use it as a base for martial arts

I'm also currently 42% BF so there's a bit of multitasking.

I think you are going to burn out fast. Usually you want three x week, look into ppl.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/37ylk5/a_linear_progression_based_ppl_program_for/

[Sivarias]

I think you are going to burn out fast. Usually you want three x week, look into ppl.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/37ylk5/a_linear_progression_based_ppl_program_for/

The 5x a week is for my mental health, not just physical. I would actually be doing a modified PPL or a PPL P/P L if you will.

[Tvtyrant]

The 5x a week is for my mental health, not just physical. I would actually be doing a modified PPL or a PPL P/P L if you will.

Fair enough. I would do 3x weights, 2x cardio so you dont overwork your muscles though. If pure cardio is boring get some people for basketball or soccer.

[Knaight]

The 5x a week is for my mental health, not just physical. I would actually be doing a modified PPL or a PPL P/P L if you will.

Five times a week is enough to damage your physical health if you're not careful - recovery time is important.

[Sivarias]

Five times a week is enough to damage your physical health if you're not careful - recovery time is important.

This is the first I've heard of it. Are you assuming a total body workout 5 days a week? Because I'll be seperating all the major muscle groups. Each group will only get worked twice a week.

[MrZJunior]

For what it's worth the thing that really helped me loose weight was when I started biking to work. It's a twenty mile round trip.

I've also been doing calisthenics and chin-ups/pull-ups.

I've been doing largely the same calisthenic exercises for the last couple months. Do you guys know where I could find some resources to help me vary my workout?

[Tvtyrant]

This is the first I've heard of it. Are you assuming a total body workout 5 days a week? Because I'll be seperating all the major muscle groups. Each group will only get worked twice a week.

The answer I was given it because you can only build so much muscle at a time (half a pound a week). You do that by converting protein into muscle, but your body has a limited amount it can do at once. So working out more often can burn calories but not build muscle.


For what it's worth the thing that really helped me loose weight was when I started biking to work. It's a twenty mile round trip.

I've also been doing calisthenics and chin-ups/pull-ups.

I've been doing largely the same calisthenic exercises for the last couple months. Do you guys know where I could find some resources to help me vary my workout?

Anything to do with military exercises should work, that is their primary focus.

gymnasticbodies.com/forum
antranik.org/bodyweight-training
globalbodyweighttraining.com
/r/bodyweightfitness
fitloop.co

[AMFV]

I'm still young so I wanna build heavy muscle, use it as a base for martial arts

I'm also currently 42% BF so there's a bit of multitasking.

Well building muscle for martial arts isn't usually accomplished by what I might call "lifting heavy" normally at fairly moderate weights you run into a point of diminishing returns. Also if you're that heavy you're probably going to run into a point where you want to cut and a heavy lifting habit may not help that much. Although to be fair I might have a different perspective than most folks here do on what should be considered "lifting heavy".

Also 1800 calories is definitely not enough to support lifting heavy, especially if you're a heavier chap. It just isn't. The best you'll manage is moderate lifting without the significant weight improvements you might see with better caloric intake.


The 5x a week is for my mental health, not just physical. I would actually be doing a modified PPL or a PPL P/P L if you will.

After the very initial stages I've seen that programs especially those with linear increases can be limiting rather than helpful. That's why you see all those folks on Reddit Fitness talking about how they bench 225, squat 310, and deadlift just over 400, after several years of training. Because a program reduces heavily the amount of actual thinking you're doing.

Five times a week is definitely not enough for the average person to overtrain. I would say if you are around 200-300 lbs, and you aren't benching 400+, squatting 500-600, and deadlifting around 6 or 7, overtraining is probably not a serious risk, although training more times does increase the risk of injury simply because you're doing the thing that risks injury more often.


Fair enough. I would do 3x weights, 2x cardio so you dont overwork your muscles though. If pure cardio is boring get some people for basketball or soccer.

Well if he's doing a good split that shouldn't be an issue, and even if not, his body will let him know if he's overworking it just fine.


Five times a week is enough to damage your physical health if you're not careful - recovery time is important.

For most people five times a week is just fine, especially if they're doing a reasonable split. And you can recover from a lot more than you would think. I mean there are athletes who do intense workouts everyday of the week and they wind up alright.


The answer I was given it because you can only build so much muscle at a time (half a pound a week). You do that by converting protein into muscle, but your body has a limited amount it can do at once. So working out more often can burn calories but not build muscle.

That's not strictly speaking true, and it varies for every single person. I mean you had guys like Arnold who worked out 6-7 days a week and you could certainly not argue that they weren't building muscle. And that was during the bulking season, and no that isn't just because of chemical assistance. I've known and had experience with training with and without, the main difference is in speed of results not anything else.

The thing is that if you're working out more times a week you're burning more energy. Like a Deadlift, say you're deadlifting 800 lbs, it takes a LOT of caloric energy to pull that bar up, so if you're doing that more times a week, you're going to either have to eat a lot more to compensate or you're going to wind up losing weight rather than building muscle. There's a reason strongmen eat like 10,000 calories a day.

[Sivarias]

Five times a week is definitely not enough for the average person to overtrain. I would say if you are around 200-300 lbs, and you aren't benching 400+, squatting 500-600, and deadlifting around 6 or 7, overtraining is probably not a serious risk, although training more times does increase the risk of injury simply because you're doing the thing that risks injury more often.

My goals are to get to 1.5xBW Bench 2x Squat, and 2.5x Deadlift. (These are minimums for what I consider "lifting heavy").

My soft goal weight is ~185lbs and/or sub 15% BF as that's the recommended lb for my height. I'll fine tune once I get closer as I am a large framed guy, and ultimately the mirror will be my guide to dialing it in. I just needed some soft number so I can track my progress more empirically rather than by "feeling it".

[AMFV]

My goals are to get to 1.5xBW Bench 2x Squat, and 2.5x Deadlift. (These are minimums for what I consider "lifting heavy").

Well if you aren't really close already you probably aren't going to hit that on 1800-2000 calories on a cut. I mean it's possible but not very likely. You would probably have to periodize somewhat to get that sort of thing. Also for martial arts stuff that's probably some wasted effort on your part. Since most of that is probably more than what you need for most martial arts stuff and getting to some of that is going to require effort and training that is counterproductive for martial arts stuff. I mean if lifting is your goal those are very good beginner steps, but if martial arts is your goal, you may be overreaching depending on your natural lifting talent and what-not.



My soft goal weight is ~185lbs and/or sub 15% BF as that's the recommended lb for my height. I'll fine tune once I get closer as I am a large framed guy, and ultimately the mirror will be my guide to dialing it in. I just needed some soft number so I can track my progress more empirically rather than by "feeling it".

Well weight can be a good or bad metric, depending on your goals, if you're aiming to compete in your martial art of choice then you need to start looking at how competitive particular weight classes are and how tall you have to be in those classes to be successful. Also most fighters are very cut, so like if 185 would be where you'd be at to be a good looking dude, and you were a fighter you'd probably weigh in at 160 (at most).

So pretty much everything here is goal dependent. I would say though that trying to lift heavy at a deficit like that is going to not give good results from the lifting and what-not. I mean you could maintain what you already have, maybe gain a little bit from CNS adaptation and improved form work, but there's no miracles there really.

[Sivarias]

Well if you aren't really close already you probably aren't going to hit that on 1800-2000 calories on a cut. I mean it's possible but not very likely. You would probably have to periodize somewhat to get that sort of thing. Also for martial arts stuff that's probably some wasted effort on your part. Since most of that is probably more than what you need for most martial arts stuff and getting to some of that is going to require effort and training that is counterproductive for martial arts stuff. I mean if lifting is your goal those are very good beginner steps, but if martial arts is your goal, you may be overreaching depending on your natural lifting talent and what-not.



Well weight can be a good or bad metric, depending on your goals, if you're aiming to compete in your martial art of choice then you need to start looking at how competitive particular weight classes are and how tall you have to be in those classes to be successful. Also most fighters are very cut, so like if 185 would be where you'd be at to be a good looking dude, and you were a fighter you'd probably weigh in at 160 (at most).

So pretty much everything here is goal dependent. I would say though that trying to lift heavy at a deficit like that is going to not give good results from the lifting and what-not. I mean you could maintain what you already have, maybe gain a little bit from CNS adaptation and improved form work, but there's no miracles there really.

I said martial arts as a catch all. I plan on getting into krav-maga, mma, and defendu. In that order. I've had a rough life, and coupled with my natural paranoia I want to be in peak physical shape so that if the **** hits the fan I can protect myself and loved ones.

That being said, I'll keep everything you've said in mind if/when I run into the problems you're predicting.

[AMFV]

I said martial arts as a catch all. I plan on getting into krav-maga, mma, and defendu. In that order. I've had a rough life, and coupled with my natural paranoia I want to be in peak physical shape so that if the **** hits the fan I can protect myself and loved ones.

That being said, I'll keep everything you've said in mind if/when I run into the problems you're predicting.

That sounds like you're probably looking for something like "Enter the Kettlebell" or "Tactical Barbell" as opposed to a more conventional lifting program which probably won't be well suited to "when **** hits the fan" type situations, unless there are a very few specific when **** hit's the fan's that you're expecting.

Honestly if you're talking practical fitness applications you run into a wall much sooner than if you're talking martial arts fighting, since practical fights tend to be much fastier and much dirtier and therefore conditioning is often less important than other factors like ruthlessness and training.

[Sivarias]

That sounds like you're probably looking for something like "Enter the Kettlebell" or "Tactical Barbell" as opposed to a more conventional lifting program which probably won't be well suited to "when **** hits the fan" type situations, unless there are a very few specific when **** hit's the fan's that you're expecting.

Honestly if you're talking practical fitness applications you run into a wall much sooner than if you're talking martial arts fighting, since practical fights tend to be much fastier and much dirtier and therefore conditioning is often less important than other factors like ruthlessness and training.

I agree, but right now I get winded going up a long flight of stairs. That's why I want to get to my baseline for "lifting heavy" before I get into krav-maga and mma, because I'd rather only be conditioning my muscle memory and my insticts, rather than trying to train my fitness as well.

I want a stamina and power foundation to build on. Right now my fat is in the way more than anything else, so I need to cut. What's I'm in range of 200lbs I'll focus more on lifting rather than cutting. Once I have some power from my noob gainz, I'll start looking into local martial arts studios that cater to what I want. I'd love to fine a high level marine certified combatant that's willing to teach me military combat techniques, but I might as well be wishing for flying pigs there.

[Tvtyrant]

Went and did "an hour" of backstroke tonight. Who knew not doing something for five years would make you bad at it?

I also made the mistake of buying a waterproof cellphone bag and waterproof bluetooth headphones, not knowing that the connection would cut out the instant the cellphone was underwater. :smallannoyed:

[Vinyadan]

Rear delts watch you while you do push ups.

Really, I think that they must be the least known posture muscles. It's also difficult to think of calisthenics for them.

[rakkoon]

Keep up the good work!
I like cardio exercises that have a Martial Arts theme, so stuff like Tae-Bo or Body combat.
Easier on the joints and badck than training with resistance (punching bags).
You can find stuff on youtube and do that at home. Otherwise find a gym where they stuff like that and join the fun.
Our group on Monday contains several 70-year-olds and everyone does it at their own level.

[AMFV]

Rear delts watch you while you do push ups.

Really, I think that they must be the least known posture muscles. It's also difficult to think of calisthenics for them.

Pull-ups and chin-ups would be the ones you want. Some variety of dips also work for that.

Edit: And inverted rows I can't believe I forgot those.

[Tvtyrant]

I am prettu sure I am eating too much or working out less then I think. According to online calculators I should still be on target for 5lbs a month if I keep below 3000 calories a day, so the stall means I am eating closer to 3500 somehow or I am not burning as much as I think.

My TDEE is supposedly 3700.

[Sivarias]

I am prettu sure I am eating too much or working out less then I think. According to online calculators I should still be on target for 5lbs a month if I keep below 3000 calories a day, so the stall means I am eating closer to 3500 somehow or I am not burning as much as I think.

My TDEE is supposedly 3700.

Check how your cooking things. Oil or butter in the pan can mess that up. It's what happened to me.

[Tvtyrant]

Check how your cooking things. Oil or butter in the pan can mess that up. It's what happened to me.

Oh good point. I had a fight this morning over buttering the pan or not, because they didn't want to wash stuck eggs and I did not want butter.

[Sivarias]

Oh good point. I had a fight this morning over buttering the pan or not, because they didn't want to wash stuck eggs and I did not want butter.

The 0 butter spray? It's <5 calories per half second burst, that's the measurement. :smallmad:

2 tbsp of oil in the pan is ~180 cal give or take ~20 calories based on the oil.

It adds up quick.

[AMFV]

I am prettu sure I am eating too much or working out less then I think. According to online calculators I should still be on target for 5lbs a month if I keep below 3000 calories a day, so the stall means I am eating closer to 3500 somehow or I am not burning as much as I think.

My TDEE is supposedly 3700.

It's probably not butter in the pan that's making a significant difference here, honestly. I mean you might just need to be more aggressive with your caloric stuff, like your calculator might not be right, if it doesn't taken into account body fat it almost certainly isn't, and if it does, if you don't have a very accurate measurement then you're off. And if there is something it isn't taking into account, like how active you are in the day even how fidgety you are. All kinds of things. Basically if you are losing weight and lbs, then you're probably close, if that slows down then maybe you need to adjust the numbers. Like try a week at 3200 or 3000, that definitely won't kill you.

If you were I, and I was trying something I'd drop to like 2,800, even, although that's a pretty drastic drop so that will make it much harder as far as willpower goes. Basically until you're in the 800-900 range you aren't going to be seeing signs of severe malnutrition, and if you're carefully watching your supps you can definitely cut a lot more aggressively than 3,500 calories. Like I'm a serious lifter and when I was doing bodybuilding I cut more aggressively than that, and I'm not a small dude. So you're probably fine.

The best advice I can give is to pay attention to the scale, and don't use exercise in your calculations. Like if your TDEE is 3700, take that without any of the added exercise stuff, and any exercise will be a bonus, unless you really have to improve lifting performance eating slightly under won't kill you, worst case is that you'll lose a little muscle and that's really easy to get back.

[Tvtyrant]

So the big issue is that I thought I was eating 3000 calories a day, and my weight loss for the last month reveals I am closer to 3500. Cutting down further is rough but I will do it, just shocked to realize how wrong my food scale calculations are.

[AMFV]

So the big issue is that I thought I was eating 3000 calories a day, and my weight loss for the last month reveals I am closer to 3500. Cutting down further is rough but I will do it, just shocked to realize how wrong my food scale calculations are.

As long as you're about the same wrong, you'll be okay. So if you're underestimating by 15% and that's consistent then you can play with it a lot more. The key is that you should trust the scale a lot more than your actual measurements, and also your activity might vary by a few hundred calories a day, like if you walk a mile more or a mile less some days (possible with just general movement) that can swing it like a hundred calories, and then after that you add other activity variations and you can get a 500 calorie swing pretty easily day-to-day.

[Tvtyrant]

As long as you're about the same wrong, you'll be okay. So if you're underestimating by 15% and that's consistent then you can play with it a lot more. The key is that you should trust the scale a lot more than your actual measurements, and also your activity might vary by a few hundred calories a day, like if you walk a mile more or a mile less some days (possible with just general movement) that can swing it like a hundred calories, and then after that you add other activity variations and you can get a 500 calorie swing pretty easily day-to-day.

Good point. It is also difficult because I drink about 2 gallons of water a day (diabetes and keto are very water consumptive) and so my weight fluctuates wildly, which is why it took so long for me to be sure.

[AMFV]

Good point. It is also difficult because I drink about 2 gallons of water a day (diabetes and keto are very water consumptive) and so my weight fluctuates wildly, which is why it took so long for me to be sure.

Hmmm you could be holding water, so depending on what you're eating that can affect water retention quite a bit. Which can make it very hard to figure out weight gain and loss. I would just cut more aggressively until you're on a pace to lose 1-2 lbs a week consistently. Also make sure that you're weighing yourself at a consistent time and after eating consistently (you probably already know this bit but it can make a huge difference), especially if holding water is an issue.

[Tvtyrant]

Hmmm you could be holding water, so depending on what you're eating that can affect water retention quite a bit. Which can make it very hard to figure out weight gain and loss. I would just cut more aggressively until you're on a pace to lose 1-2 lbs a week consistently. Also make sure that you're weighing yourself at a consistent time and after eating consistently (you probably already know this bit but it can make a huge difference), especially if holding water is an issue.

I usually weigh myself after getting up in the morning, and at the gym before workouts. Making a weight journal has proved I weigh 3-5 pounds more by night as in the morning, and vary 2-3 pounds from night to night with less variation from morning to morning.

[AMFV]

I usually weigh myself after getting up in the morning, and at the gym before workouts. Making a weight journal has proved I weigh 3-5 pounds more by night as in the morning, and vary 2-3 pounds from night to night with less variation from morning to morning.

Three to five pounds is about normal morning to night. I'm somewhere between five and seven it depends how much you eat and how your digestive system is working. I would do daily weigh ins and then average over the week. Like take the trendline for your morning weigh ins.

[AMFV]

Hey again Fit Playgrounders! It's two days after New Years so that means it's resolution time at the gym. I figured we could all post some of our fitness resolutions here so we can encourage each other and what-not. Or at least that's what I'm doing cause I could use the encouragement.

I have three major fitness goals/resolutions/whatever for the year 2018:

I want to pull over 750 lbs, if I can manage it. I'm hanging out around the mid-low 6s, so that's a lofty goal, but not completely unattainable.

I want to hit 260 lbs by the last strongman competition of the year.

And I want to place in the top 3 at one of the four strongman competitions I'm doing this year.

So what's everybody else's goals for the year?

[Cozzer]

Well, it's a bit abstract, but my resolution is not to stop at "acceptable". I got into fitness a few times already, each time with an ideal goal in mind, but each time, at a certain point I was, like, "eh, good enough" and let myself backslide. I'd say where I'm now is already perfectly acceptable, but for once I want to push past "acceptable" and see what's there.

So yeah, the light-ish daily exercise and dieting I'm already doing is probably going to be enough, since I don't care about big muscles or super endurance. I'm going to fine-tune the intensity a bit if/when I hit a plateau, but the important part is that I don't want to stop at "eh, good enough".

To be a little more specific, I'm trying to lose another 5 kilos, possibly before the summer because hey, narcissism is powerful motivation. Meanwhile, I'm going to keep completing Darebee programs and see when I can move up to Level 4 ones.

[Tvtyrant]

Fine goals! 700 is amazing to me, I wish you the best of luck and post pictures!

Setting micro-goals seems like the best way to get past the settling issue.

Personally I have three physical goals this year. Lose at least 70lbs, hike a 5000 ft elevation change hike, do a 20 mile hike in preparation for a 60 mile hike the year after that.

[AMFV]

Well, it's a bit abstract, but my resolution is not to stop at "acceptable". I got into fitness a few times already, each time with an ideal goal in mind, but each time, at a certain point I was, like, "eh, good enough" and let myself backslide. I'd say where I'm now is already perfectly acceptable, but for once I want to push past "acceptable" and see what's there.

I think the best advice I can give (although I don't know if you want it, but giving unsolicited advice is what the internet was invented for) is to do something competitive. That way you always have to be pushing yourself further even if you've nominally hit your goals. I'm not sure what kind of competitive things you could find that would suit your tastes but that's definitely the way to go, as far as my own experience at least.


Fine goals! 700 is amazing to me, I wish you the best of luck and post pictures!

Will do! If I make it that is. My arm was broken last year and it's still giving me a little bit of trouble on really heavy lifts.



Personally I have three physical goals this year. Lose at least 70lbs, hike a 5000 ft elevation change hike, do a 20 mile hike in preparation for a 60 mile hike the year after that.

Those are all awesome goals! I wish you the best of luck.

So anyone else have any fitness goals for the year? I'd love to hear from more folks as well.

As far as mine goes, today I wound up working out, I did 10 minutes of deadlifting at a relatively light weight, I will tell you though that even with a super light weight 80 repetitions of deadlifts in 10 minutes is no joke, that was a very intense workout. At the very end of it I was about as physically drained as I have been from doing sets to maximum weight, and a lot more wore out in terms of endurance, just a really awesome exercise routine, and quick too.

[Cozzer]

Well, I love giving unsolicited advice so I can't really complain about receiving some, can I? :smallbiggrin:

That said, I don't think this particular piece of advice would work for me... It would work for other things, but apparently physical exercise is one of these areas where adding pressure somehow makes me do less instead of more. Also, I love having complete control over when and where I exercise, which fits perfectly with the do-at-home programs...

But the existence of several programs, spread over various levels, is still a challenge in its own way. I'm not really competing against anyone in particular, but I do feel a small competitive tingle when I think about becoming able to complete high-level workouts.

(Meanwhile, apparently I got myself an inflammed tendon by partying too hard during New Year's Eve. :smalltongue: It's in the leg, so from personal experience I know I absolutely have to take a few days of rest or it will take weeks to go away).

Oh, and best of luck to you guys too!

[AMFV]

Well, I love giving unsolicited advice so I can't really complain about receiving some, can I? :smallbiggrin:

That said, I don't think this particular piece of advice would work for me... It would work for other things, but apparently physical exercise is one of these areas where adding pressure somehow makes me do less instead of more. Also, I love having complete control over when and where I exercise, which fits perfectly with the do-at-home programs...

Generally the competitive part isn't the training part it's like a result of the training. So like two powerlifters may train very differently, train different amounts of time and still have the same sort of goals. Although the pressure thing may prove true. A lot of it depends on what you enjoy and what-not. If that's not an options you can definitely do the high level workout thing.

[Tvtyrant]

New pictures. The left is me at the end of the hike, the right is me at the beginning. Taken about 10 ft. and five hours apart so I linked them together (the perspective made it hard to sync them perfectly).https://k2.okccdn.com/php/load_okc_image.php/images/150x150/558x800/0x0/250x250/0/1236223449023766446.jpeg?v=1

For other Oregonians, this is at Firelane 15 (that is the southern tip of Sauvie's Island in the background).

[Sivarias]

Hey again Fit Playgrounders! It's two days after New Years so that means it's resolution time at the gym. I figured we could all post some of our fitness resolutions here so we can encourage each other and what-not. Or at least that's what I'm doing cause I could use the encouragement.


I want to be happy looking in the mirror.
In more detail. I've run some numbers, and I can get to where I want to be in a year, but it'll be an aggressive year as far as cuts and gym is concerned. I want to refrain from spitting any numbered goals out, simply because the consensus seems to be that when you share the specifics of a goal your brain releases dopamine as a way of rewarding that you actually have a goal set. So to avoid prematurely rewarding myself, I will instead only be discussing how far I've come, not how much farther I have to go.

Some other more specific goals however.

Cut Soda out of my diet
Cut fried food out of my diet
Don't munch while at work (Captain D's)
Workout at home when I can't get to the gym
Increase my protein intake


I know from past experience that after about two/three weeks of no soda and fried food, I'll stop craving it at all. The difficulty lies in my being on break from school, which means I'm working full time. Since I work at a captain d's, it's far to easy to grab a french fry or chicken tender or whatever. Or fill up a Dr. Pepper from the machine. It's the compulsive eating hand-to-mouth that is too easy to fall into that honestly kills all my attempts at weight loss.

Generic Nutrition question. I've heard you're supposed to eat your weight in grams of protein, or your goal weight if you are grossly over weight. How is that even possible. I've run the numbers, for me that would be between 1 and 1.5 lbs of meat a day, and that's using a protein shake for breakfast. That seems obscene.

Furthermore, I really just need to go to the store and get some rope so I can do rows at home. I tried tying a bunch of old shirts together, but my fat-ass pulled the knot free and cracked my head. I've been leery to try ever since. I also hate that I can't do 10 push-ups in a row either.

[Tvtyrant]

I want to be happy looking in the mirror.
In more detail. I've run some numbers, and I can get to where I want to be in a year, but it'll be an aggressive year as far as cuts and gym is concerned. I want to refrain from spitting any numbered goals out, simply because the consensus seems to be that when you share the specifics of a goal your brain releases dopamine as a way of rewarding that you actually have a goal set. So to avoid prematurely rewarding myself, I will instead only be discussing how far I've come, not how much farther I have to go.

Some other more specific goals however.

Cut Soda out of my diet
Cut fried food out of my diet
Don't munch while at work (Captain D's)
Workout at home when I can't get to the gym
Increase my protein intake


I know from past experience that after about two/three weeks of no soda and fried food, I'll stop craving it at all. The difficulty lies in my being on break from school, which means I'm working full time. Since I work at a captain d's, it's far to easy to grab a french fry or chicken tender or whatever. Or fill up a Dr. Pepper from the machine. It's the compulsive eating hand-to-mouth that is too easy to fall into that honestly kills all my attempts at weight loss.

Generic Nutrition question. I've heard you're supposed to eat your weight in grams of protein, or your goal weight if you are grossly over weight. How is that even possible. I've run the numbers, for me that would be between 1 and 1.5 lbs of meat a day, and that's using a protein shake for breakfast. That seems obscene.

Furthermore, I really just need to go to the store and get some rope so I can do rows at home. I tried tying a bunch of old shirts together, but my fat-ass pulled the knot free and cracked my head. I've been leery to try ever since. I also hate that I can't do 10 push-ups in a row either.

Look up egg whites and milk for the protein question, but yes you need to eat a ton of protein. It is very hard to gain muscle while losing weight, and you need a lot of protein or you will straight up lose muscle.

The list looks good though! I would suggest counting macros just to get in the habit of reading nutrition labels. It will help immensely.

[Sivarias]

Look up egg whites and milk for the protein question, but yes you need to eat a ton of protein. It is very hard to gain muscle while losing weight, and you need a lot of protein or you will straight up lose muscle.

The list looks good though! I would suggest counting macros just to get in the habit of reading nutrition labels. It will help immensely.

I already do. I'm still transitioning into my goals. (As in, they exist, but I'm not rigid about them).

Another issue I have is just not being hungry enough. Like, if I focus on just the protien, suddenly it's the end of the day and I've only had 1500 calories and I'm not hungry. I don't like force feeding myself because it reminds me too much of the stress eating or bored eating I used to/still do. So I'll finish the day with about 100g of protein and only 1200-1500 calories. I'm not starving myself. (By that I mean I'm not getting hunger signals from my body).

It's very odd, to say the least. There was one day where I decided to just cut fat out for the day and see what happened. I finished the day with 800 calories by only eating when hungry and only eating a mix of carbs and protein. No heavy fat foods. I ended up swinging by McDonalds for a McChicken just to bump me over the 1500 minimum male calorie requirements.

[Iruka]

I set three goals for this year:

1. Participate in three running events

One will be the 12 km campus run at my university; the second possibly a local run involving a lot of hills and flights of stairs; the third is still undecided, maybe some kind of obstacle run/mud run thing.

2. Finally complete the 100 push-ups challenge

Third try, got to about 50 maximum before something interrupted my training and then I could not find the motivation to regain lost ground.

3. Lose weight until I am at 79 kg average

Put on some weight during the holidays, before that I was between 79 kg and 80 kg and pretty happy with that; getting lower than that would possibly put me in the best shape I had since I quit competetive swimming but would need more attention and willpower that I can currently spare.

The first two goals need 2-3 exercise units per week which should be doable even when time is a little tight, the third goal will follow from that once i have finished the last leftover sweets from christmas. :smalltongue:

[Tvtyrant]

I set three goals for this year:

1. Participate in three running events

One will be the 12 km campus run at my university; the second possibly a local run involving a lot of hills and flights of stairs; the third is still undecided, maybe some kind of obstacle run/mud run thing.

2. Finally complete the 100 push-ups challenge

Third try, got to about 50 maximum before something interrupted my training and then I could not find the motivation to regain lost ground.

3. Lose weight until I am at 79 kg average

Put on some weight during the holidays, before that I was between 79 kg and 80 kg and pretty happy with that; getting lower than that would possibly put me in the best shape I had since I quit competetive swimming but would need more attention and willpower that I can currently spare.

The first two goals need 2-3 exercise units per week which should be doable even when time is a little tight, the third goal will follow from that once i have finished the last leftover sweets from christmas. :smalltongue:

Remember with the inclined run that training on flat ground insufficient preparation. You want to do stairs and inclined tracks to prepare your heart and lungs.

[AMFV]

Awesome you guys, I'm glad that this thread is growing! I've put my responses to you folks in spoilers to save length and at the end I'll talk about how my fitness stuff is going.


New pictures. The left is me at the end of the hike, the right is me at the beginning. Taken about 10 ft. and five hours apart so I linked them together (the perspective made it hard to sync them perfectly).https://k2.okccdn.com/php/load_okc_image.php/images/150x150/558x800/0x0/250x250/0/1236223449023766446.jpeg?v=1

For other Oregonians, this is at Firelane 15 (that is the southern tip of Sauvie's Island in the background).

Awesome, that looks like a really awesome hike, how far was it? (Not that distance is the best measure if that's hilly terrain and it looks like it might be). And at least now that you've had that idea you can sync pictures better next hike! That is a really cool idea.



I want to be happy looking in the mirror.
In more detail. I've run some numbers, and I can get to where I want to be in a year, but it'll be an aggressive year as far as cuts and gym is concerned. I want to refrain from spitting any numbered goals out, simply because the consensus seems to be that when you share the specifics of a goal your brain releases dopamine as a way of rewarding that you actually have a goal set. So to avoid prematurely rewarding myself, I will instead only be discussing how far I've come, not how much farther I have to go.

Some other more specific goals however.

Cut Soda out of my diet
Cut fried food out of my diet
Don't munch while at work (Captain D's)
Workout at home when I can't get to the gym
Increase my protein intake



Those all definitely sound doable and admirable once you get them.



Generic Nutrition question. I've heard you're supposed to eat your weight in grams of protein, or your goal weight if you are grossly over weight. How is that even possible. I've run the numbers, for me that would be between 1 and 1.5 lbs of meat a day, and that's using a protein shake for breakfast. That seems obscene.

Usually the general "rule of thumb" is 1 g per lb of bodyweight at goal weight. From what I've heard for most people, although there have been some studies that show that this is excessive. If you aren't trying to build a whole crapton of muscle you might not have to worry so much about it, even if you're gorging on protein you're going to lose some muscle, and that's just part of losing weight, I mean you can strive to mitigate that, but you won't. You just will lose some amount of muscle when you lose drastic amounts of weight.

1 to 1.5 lbs of meat sounds about right to me, right now my protein is at something like 12 eggs in the morning, 1-2 lbs of meat with lunch and several more lbs of meat in the evening. And that's in addition to the protein I get from eating whole wheat noodles and things like that. I mean it's not uncommon for me to finish out the day with like 400g plus of protein without really making any significant effort on that front. Although I do have a lot more calories most likely.



Furthermore, I really just need to go to the store and get some rope so I can do rows at home. I tried tying a bunch of old shirts together, but my fat-ass pulled the knot free and cracked my head. I've been leery to try ever since. I also hate that I can't do 10 push-ups in a row either.

Best thing to do for something like rows at home is to get like a bucket or a bag full of stuff, like a sack. Then you can do bent over rows with the sack without having to worry about ropes or securing things or pulling arm over arm or anything.


I already do. I'm still transitioning into my goals. (As in, they exist, but I'm not rigid about them).

Another issue I have is just not being hungry enough. Like, if I focus on just the protien, suddenly it's the end of the day and I've only had 1500 calories and I'm not hungry. I don't like force feeding myself because it reminds me too much of the stress eating or bored eating I used to/still do. So I'll finish the day with about 100g of protein and only 1200-1500 calories. I'm not starving myself. (By that I mean I'm not getting hunger signals from my body).


That's really odd, if you're used to a diet where you're maintaining a fairly high weight, you should be VERY hungry having consumed that few calories. Like you might want to get your hormones levels checked, or at the very least bring that sort of thing up with a doctor, that sounds like there might be medical issues or something going on with that. I mean you might want to try a more extreme calorie reduction for a few days and see what happens, it's also possible that your 1500 calories is undercounting or missing all those fries you snuck at work. But if your numbers are accurate I would be concerned about some kind of medical condition. I mean let's take it this way. I eat like a strongman, to gain a lot of weight. I weigh about 256 lbs (116 kg roughly) if I eat less than 3k calories I start getting headaches and shakes and stuff, so that low calories and not even feeling hunger is a sign of some kind of problem.



It's very odd, to say the least. There was one day where I decided to just cut fat out for the day and see what happened. I finished the day with 800 calories by only eating when hungry and only eating a mix of carbs and protein. No heavy fat foods. I ended up swinging by McDonalds for a McChicken
just to bump me over the 1500 minimum male calorie requirements.

Well it's important to remember a few things, 1500 is a minimum averaged over a few days. Like you could eat nothing at all for a couple of days and it wouldn't hurt I imagine. And you could probably eat as low as 900 depending on your composition and stuff, if you have a lot of fat reserves your body doesn't need as many calories to prevent starvation cause it'll consume of the fat for that. I mean I wouldn't starve yourself, but don't get too hung up on if you're slightly lower than you ought to be if you aren't getting serious hunger pangs (provided you've checked with a doc and it's not something medical you need to worry about). Also milk or diary is better for calories.




I set three goals for this year:

1. Participate in three running events

One will be the 12 km campus run at my university; the second possibly a local run involving a lot of hills and flights of stairs; the third is still undecided, maybe some kind of obstacle run/mud run thing.

2. Finally complete the 100 push-ups challenge

Third try, got to about 50 maximum before something interrupted my training and then I could not find the motivation to regain lost ground.

3. Lose weight until I am at 79 kg average

Put on some weight during the holidays, before that I was between 79 kg and 80 kg and pretty happy with that; getting lower than that would possibly put me in the best shape I had since I quit competetive swimming but would need more attention and willpower that I can currently spare.

The first two goals need 2-3 exercise units per week which should be doable even when time is a little tight, the third goal will follow from that once i have finished the last leftover sweets from christmas. :smalltongue:

Awesome goals! As far as the pushups go, the way I've done the most pushups is by doing max sets whenever I had a break throughout the day.
I don't know if the 100 pushup challenge is doing 100 in a sitting or 100 /day or what it is. But if it's 100 in a setting then doing repeated max sets is the way to go, and you don't really need to take days off or anything. And this is from somebody who has done very well in pushup contests like in the military and stuff.

Anyways, my goals are moving apace, I'm not at around 255 lbs after eating, probably 250 fasted, which is bringing me much closer to my goal of being at the top of my weight class, which is 265 (for most of the competitions I'm in) and 275 for the last one (different federations and stuff). I didn't do any deadlifting this week so far, but I did some overhead work and it was definitely awesome. The heaviest set of overhead presses since I've broken my arm. I didn't use a lot of leg drive to get myself more used to strict pressing, which isn't necessary but it it's fun. I do need to put another 30 or so lbs on my overhead before may, although that includes leg drive, so we'll see how easy that is. I imagine not so bad.

[Sivarias]

I'll get tired and headaches on a cut, but only on days with sub 100 carbs or super low fat. My stomache just doesn't rubble.

I'll get a gurgle at the top but that's always been a need more water for me. I'll drink some water and it goes away.

The reason I'm so heavy is I'm a compulsive as well as stress eater. If food is in front of me I feel compelled to eat it even when not hungry. It's almost impossible for me to not clean my plate. I also eat junk when stressed which is only moderately better than smoking.

[Tvtyrant]

Awesome you guys, I'm glad that this thread is growing! I've put my responses to you folks in spoilers to save length and at the end I'll talk about how my fitness stuff is going.

Awesome, that looks like a really awesome hike, how far was it? (Not that distance is the best measure if that's hilly terrain and it looks like it might be). And at least now that you've had that idea you can sync pictures better next hike! That is a really cool idea.

Actually pretty short, about five miles and 1000ft. elevation change but it basically dives straight down the hill to the river and then back up to the top again. Been about a month and a half since my last hike, endurance cut a bit.



Anyways, my goals are moving apace, I'm not at around 255 lbs after eating, probably 250 fasted, which is bringing me much closer to my goal of being at the top of my weight class, which is 265 (for most of the competitions I'm in) and 275 for the last one (different federations and stuff). I didn't do any deadlifting this week so far, but I did some overhead work and it was definitely awesome. The heaviest set of overhead presses since I've broken my arm. I didn't use a lot of leg drive to get myself more used to strict pressing, which isn't necessary but it it's fun. I do need to put another 30 or so lbs on my overhead before may, although that includes leg drive, so we'll see how easy that is. I imagine not so bad.

Sounds like things are going well! So you are going to be 10lbs less then the maximum weight for the last competition?

[Iruka]

Remember with the inclined run that training on flat ground insufficient preparation. You want to do stairs and inclined tracks to prepare your heart and lungs.

It is pretty hilly around here, so I think I got that covered. I will keep an eye out for stairs that I could use for training.



1 to 1.5 lbs of meat sounds about right to me, right now my protein is at something like 12 eggs in the morning, 1-2 lbs of meat with lunch and several more lbs of meat in the evening. And that's in addition to the protein I get from eating whole wheat noodles and things like that. I mean it's not uncommon for me to finish out the day with like 400g plus of protein without really making any significant effort on that front. Although I do have a lot more calories most likely.



Awesome goals! As far as the pushups go, the way I've done the most pushups is by doing max sets whenever I had a break throughout the day.
I don't know if the 100 pushup challenge is doing 100 in a sitting or 100 /day or what it is. But if it's 100 in a setting then doing repeated max sets is the way to go, and you don't really need to take days off or anything. And this is from somebody who has done very well in pushup contests like in the military and stuff.



Wait, did I read that correctly, you eat several kg of meat per day?

It's about 100 pushups in one set. Thanks for the tip, I will give your approach a try. :smallsmile:

[AMFV]

I'll get tired and headaches on a cut, but only on days with sub 100 carbs or super low fat. My stomache just doesn't rubble.

I'll get a gurgle at the top but that's always been a need more water for me. I'll drink some water and it goes away.

The reason I'm so heavy is I'm a compulsive as well as stress eater. If food is in front of me I feel compelled to eat it even when not hungry. It's almost impossible for me to not clean my plate. I also eat junk when stressed which is only moderately better than smoking.

Yeah, I'd still be cautious about it, since that sort of thing seems odd to me, although it could just be. I mean if that's the key problem I think that getting the food out of in front of you would be the best solution.


Actually pretty short, about five miles and 1000ft. elevation change but it basically dives straight down the hill to the river and then back up to the top again. Been about a month and a half since my last hike, endurance cut a bit.


Winter air probably doesn't help either, it winds up feeling a lot harder to do even simple things when it's cold, at least for me.



Sounds like things are going well! So you are going to be 10lbs less then the maximum weight for the last competition?

Well in an ideal world my weight would be something like this, around 260 for the competition in May, then for the next competition I'd be right around 265, then for the third one (the 275) one I'd be up in the 270s. Then for the last one I'd cut back down to 260 for the last competition, then I'd figure out my offseason gains and stuff.



Wait, did I read that correctly, you eat several kg of meat per day?

Well a couple, something like 2. Like 2-5 lbs, so a couple kg. Which is awesome.



It's about 100 pushups in one set. Thanks for the tip, I will give your approach a try. :smallsmile:

Yeah, that's definitely doable, I think my best was 135 in two minutes, which I got to by doing that.

[Tvtyrant]

Well in an ideal world my weight would be something like this, around 260 for the competition in May, then for the next competition I'd be right around 265, then for the third one (the 275) one I'd be up in the 270s. Then for the last one I'd cut back down to 260 for the last competition, then I'd figure out my offseason gains and stuff.



Martial arts level of weight changing there. I salute your will power, I don't think I could bulk, cut, bulk like that. The permacut is working because I never give myself more then I am allowed.

[AMFV]

Martial arts level of weight changing there. I salute your will power, I don't think I could bulk, cut, bulk like that. The permacut is working because I never give myself more then I am allowed.

Not quite that much, hopefully, it's mostly increasing with occasional stepping down. With any luck by the time it's next year I'll be in the weight classes where I won't have to cut anymore ever. I mean it isn't that far to superheavy and that's where I'd like to be in the end. Although that might not be the best thing for maintenance.

[Tvtyrant]

Not quite that much, hopefully, it's mostly increasing with occasional stepping down. With any luck by the time it's next year I'll be in the weight classes where I won't have to cut anymore ever. I mean it isn't that far to superheavy and that's where I'd like to be in the end. Although that might not be the best thing for maintenance.

Is there an uncapped weight class? Because I figure as long as you stay one below that you are probably okay, but after that bloatmax becomes a thing.

[AMFV]

Is there an uncapped weight class? Because I figure as long as you stay one below that you are probably okay, but after that bloatmax becomes a thing.

Well typically with strongman stuff the goal is to get to the uncapped class. Which would be 275+ for one and 300+ for the other. (There's very rarely a 330 class, but usually it's folded into the one below it, so it's not typically a thing that comes up). I mean if you want to move the biggest weights you probably have to be in the heaviest class typically. Although given my height disadvantage I'll probably never be able to be as heavy as some of the bigger dudes on the circuit (some of them are like 400 lbs), but I could get probably to low mid threes. We'll see though. As long as I don't feel too terribly unhealthy and I can still move around decently I'm okay with it.

[Tvtyrant]

Well typically with strongman stuff the goal is to get to the uncapped class. Which would be 275+ for one and 300+ for the other. (There's very rarely a 330 class, but usually it's folded into the one below it, so it's not typically a thing that comes up). I mean if you want to move the biggest weights you probably have to be in the heaviest class typically. Although given my height disadvantage I'll probably never be able to be as heavy as some of the bigger dudes on the circuit (some of them are like 400 lbs), but I could get probably to low mid threes. We'll see though. As long as I don't feel too terribly unhealthy and I can still move around decently I'm okay with it.

Yeah, just looking at guys like Hafthor and Svickas. Those guys are impossibly huge.

On a side note, pissed my hiking partner cut out this weekend. I need my calorie loss dang it!

Has anyone else noticed they need less sleep as they get fitter? I thought working out a lot I would need more rest.

[sophiajerome]

Leafy green vegetables contain less carbohydrates than root vegetables.

Eating green vegetables supplied all the essential vitamins required for your body.
Green vegetables contain starch which acts as a good supply of required carbohydrates for your body.
You can lose weight by eating more green vegetables.
Also your blood hemoglobin levels are maintained by eating them, as they contain iron that is essential for your body.

[Tvtyrant]

Pulled something in my shoulderblade at the gym last night. Not a good feeling.

[Sajiri]

Hello all, today I made my (belated) new years resolution that I am going to lose weight and get fit. I just happened to see this thread after making that decision, so I guess Im jumping in here for support, while also seeing others working at it too. A bit of background to my situation.

My whole life growing up, I was very active. Played a lot of different sport, had highly physical jobs, was always thin and fit. But when I say thin, I mean unhealthily so, I was clearly underweight. This is due to the fact that my mother (while being quite overweight herself, smothering huge plates of food in gravy each night) would go out of her way to make sure I couldn't eat, sometimes up to two days at a time. Not sure why that was, but it resulted in me being able to eat whatever I wanted when I did get the chance without really putting on much weight. This has basically translated into me having no idea how to have a healthy diet now that Im married and not living with my parents. Along with some sporting injuries in the past that had me stop playing all the sport I used to, I've put on a lot of weight, and with other health issues I stopped getting out so much.

Along with my anxiety issues, I don't like to get out much because Im incredibly self conscious. This isnt helped by the fact that my mother and sisters like to go out of there way to make me feel like I am far larger than I am (one sister bought me a dress for christmas that was multiple sizes too large for me, and made a big deal about how it would fit me perfectly, just to try to mask her insults as kindness). I am probably not what is considered 'fat', but definitely overweight, and I dont want to let myself keep going this way when it will only be harder the longer I wait.

Part of this is about my confidence and self image, but another big part is my health. I need to learn how to eat healthier in general, and I want to be able to feel better physically and mentally. I have actually been losing weight lately, but not through any conscious effort- I've been tending to skip meals because some medication Im on just makes me lose my appetite, and I know that starving myself isn't the way to get healthy either.

[FinnLassie]

This year's plan is to lose the 5 kilos i gained last year, and then 5-10kg more. Biggest thing for me to do right now is cut my sugar and fat intake by a mile - that alone should make me lose the 5kg I gained in the past year quick since it was the main reason I got those kilos in me.

There's about 4,5km to my campus, to which I am currently taking the bus in and walking home, but soon will be walking both ways. That'll mean 20-40km of just walking per week. I have no other plans besides that at this point. More random cycling when spring arrives and I get my chains fixed by my friend.

I know I could easily lose even more and so on, but my eating disorder is a limiting factor; 2015 I ended up starving myself for two weeks when I wasn't meeting my requirements as an example. My mental health comes first.

[Tvtyrant]

Hello all, today I made my (belated) new years resolution that I am going to lose weight and get fit. I just happened to see this thread after making that decision, so I guess Im jumping in here for support, while also seeing others working at it too. A bit of background to my situation.

My whole life growing up, I was very active. Played a lot of different sport, had highly physical jobs, was always thin and fit. But when I say thin, I mean unhealthily so, I was clearly underweight. This is due to the fact that my mother (while being quite overweight herself, smothering huge plates of food in gravy each night) would go out of her way to make sure I couldn't eat, sometimes up to two days at a time. Not sure why that was, but it resulted in me being able to eat whatever I wanted when I did get the chance without really putting on much weight. This has basically translated into me having no idea how to have a healthy diet now that Im married and not living with my parents. Along with some sporting injuries in the past that had me stop playing all the sport I used to, I've put on a lot of weight, and with other health issues I stopped getting out so much.

Along with my anxiety issues, I don't like to get out much because Im incredibly self conscious. This isnt helped by the fact that my mother and sisters like to go out of there way to make me feel like I am far larger than I am (one sister bought me a dress for christmas that was multiple sizes too large for me, and made a big deal about how it would fit me perfectly, just to try to mask her insults as kindness). I am probably not what is considered 'fat', but definitely overweight, and I dont want to let myself keep going this way when it will only be harder the longer I wait.

Part of this is about my confidence and self image, but another big part is my health. I need to learn how to eat healthier in general, and I want to be able to feel better physically and mentally. I have actually been losing weight lately, but not through any conscious effort- I've been tending to skip meals because some medication Im on just makes me lose my appetite, and I know that starving myself isn't the way to get healthy either.

Sorry to hear about your family, sounds like they haven't treated you well.

If you can start doing a sport again I would, it will help with motivation. For food I would just make sure you get plenty of nutrients when you do feel hungry, and maybe get some protein shakes for when you aren't feeling hungry but your body needs to eat.

Fasting is complicated but can be done in healthy ways. How long are you going between meals with this medication?

@Finnlassie
Walking seems like a great plan, and cutting out junk that is always good. What are your typical meals like?

[Sajiri]

Fasting is complicated but can be done in healthy ways. How long are you going between meals with this medication?


Typically, I would only think to eat something in the mornings when I take my meds, and the husband has to remind me to eat meals the rest of the day. On average I probably only eat some fruit in the morning, then (maybe) dinner at night. There's also the fact Im hypoglycemic, so Im supposed to be eating a small snack every few hours or I start to feel really ill and shaky, but when I do think to do that its usually me just finding whatever is easiest which is often not something that is going to be particularly healthy

[Tvtyrant]

Typically, I would only think to eat something in the mornings when I take my meds, and the husband has to remind me to eat meals the rest of the day. On average I probably only eat some fruit in the morning, then (maybe) dinner at night. There's also the fact Im hypoglycemic, so Im supposed to be eating a small snack every few hours or I start to feel really ill and shaky, but when I do think to do that its usually me just finding whatever is easiest which is often not something that is going to be particularly healthy
Sounds like Ensure or Slimfast would be useful. There are lots of prepackaged drinks like that, including atkins protein shakes. Set a timer and drink them when it goes off.

Just keeping a little under your daily caloric intake will get you slow weight loss, and the shakes are easy to count calories for.

[Sajiri]

As I'm too self conscious to go to a gym (not that I could even if I wanted to since there's concrete being laid right outside my front door today) I found some home workout videos from a channel on youtube to get me started. A lot of the exercises were things I used to do when younger, and I have to say it is so much harder than I remember @_@ But I managed to get through every single one (right now focusing on arms and stomach).

I will have to see about those drinks once I can get outside without wet concrete. Something like that I suppose I wouldnt put off as readily as actual meals.

[Stadge]

The reason I'm so heavy is I'm a compulsive as well as stress eater. If food is in front of me I feel compelled to eat it even when not hungry. It's almost impossible for me to not clean my plate. I also eat junk when stressed which is only moderately better than smoking.

Oh I get this hugely. Luckily it seems I got rid of a big contributor to my stress a month ago- and I'm now just not buying the delicious delicious snacks that I wish I could ration out to myself. I can't ration, so I just won't give myself the temptation.


Anyway, I'm new to the thread, but figured I'd post as I'm trying to get fitter after a few years of injuries, followed by complacency and an energy draining living situation. I'd done bits and pieces in that time (mostly running, but nothing great). But yes, I'm throwing myself into getting more active and healthy, whilst still trying to balance my enjoyment of things.

The last few days have been good, managed a 5.2k run a few days ago, without having to walk at any point for the first time in ages. Hoping tomorrow morning is also a success, but I'll try not to beat myself up if its not as good. Running some and walking some is still better than not going right?

On a whim I decided to join some friends who are signing up for a half tough mudder in September, I reckon if an entire new person can grow in that timescale, I can get a bit leaner and fitter. I figure it gives me something concrete to aim at.

Anyway, I'll shush for now, but best of luck to everyone in their journeys!

[Douglas]

As I'm too self conscious to go to a gym (not that I could even if I wanted to since there's concrete being laid right outside my front door today) I found some home workout videos from a channel on youtube to get me started. A lot of the exercises were things I used to do when younger, and I have to say it is so much harder than I remember @_@ But I managed to get through every single one (right now focusing on arms and stomach).

I will have to see about those drinks once I can get outside without wet concrete. Something like that I suppose I wouldnt put off as readily as actual meals.
I've been learning recently that your own body can serve as an impressively good weight to lift in many various exercises, using little or no equipment. Professional athletes and people looking to go from "fit" to "extremely fit" need something more, but it's plenty for someone out of shape looking to get decently fit and maybe lose some weight. It's called "bodyweight" exercising, if you need any help finding resources on it.

For meal replacement drinks, one that's been getting a lot of popularity and press recently is Soylent (https://www.soylent.com/). I've started drinking about 1 bottle a day of it (substituting maybe a quarter of my overall food). It took a little getting used to at first, but now I actually like the Cacao flavor.

[Sajiri]

I've been learning recently that your own body can serve as an impressively good weight to lift in many various exercises, using little or no equipment. Professional athletes and people looking to go from "fit" to "extremely fit" need something more, but it's plenty for someone out of shape looking to get decently fit and maybe lose some weight. It's called "bodyweight" exercising, if you need any help finding resources on it.

For meal replacement drinks, one that's been getting a lot of popularity and press recently is Soylent (https://www.soylent.com/). I've started drinking about 1 bottle a day of it (substituting maybe a quarter of my overall food). It took a little getting used to at first, but now I actually like the Cacao flavor.

Yeah I could realise the body weight thing. The exercises I was doing used (small) weights but I didnt have any yesterday but could still feel it. Today I did it all again, but filled up some empty bottles to work until I get something better. Have to say I was still feeling sore from yesterday and just didnt want to do it today, but I know if I start skipping a day this quick it'll happen more and more often.

Tomorrow's the weekend so Im going to go on a shopping trip with the husband to look for healthy meals and those drinks.

[Stadge]

For meal replacement drinks, one that's been getting a lot of popularity and press recently is Soylent (https://www.soylent.com/). I've started drinking about 1 bottle a day of it (substituting maybe a quarter of my overall food). It took a little getting used to at first, but now I actually like the Cacao flavor.

Ooh could be worth a look. I've only ha experience with Huel, which I'd say is pretty decent and unoffensive. I think it just comes in Original and Vanilla. Original isn't a wonderful taste, but is a savoury base if you want to add herbs/spices/anything else to it. These days I just take it as part of my hiking kit really, but when I first moved flat I was skint, my pans were boxed up and the cooker didn't work, so I was on it for about two weeks. I missed the texture of food, but it worked nicely. I might make it a lunch again when the weather warms up a bit.

[Douglas]

Have to say I was still feeling sore from yesterday and just didnt want to do it today, but I know if I start skipping a day this quick it'll happen more and more often.
Make sure you switch up which exercises you do from day to day. Your muscles need time to rest and recover to benefit well from exercise, but it's on a per-muscle basis. From everything I've read a typical pattern is to alternate upper body exercises one day and lower body the next, and it's important to take at least one day per week completely off with no exercise. So, pick one day of the week to be your rest day and commit to exercising all the other days of the week, with a rotating schedule of which exercises you do each day.

Also, proper form is very important. On exercise videos, make sure to look for one that explains in detail exactly how to do whatever exercise you're doing, no matter how simple it is or how well you think you already know it. For example, I had no idea that I hadn't actually known how to properly do a pushup until I came across this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuLP-D2VkOo) - I was doing the first of the four common form errors it points out, angling my elbows out to the side rather than keeping them close.


Tomorrow's the weekend so Im going to go on a shopping trip with the husband to look for healthy meals and those drinks.
I don't think Soylent is available in stores much, if you're thinking of that one specifically. You might be able to find it, there are some places that stock it, but most Soylent is sold through their web site and shipped to the customer directly. Ensure and a few other brands of such things are commonly stocked in grocery stores, though.

[Vinyadan]

There are different kinds of sore. The strong soreness/pain that you feel the day after you get back to training after a long pause (weeks or months) goes away by training during the following days, and lasts a lot longer if you don't train. Then there are the kinds of pain by which your body is telling you that it's tired or to look out for damage (in different parts, like muscles or tendons or joints or the skin).

[Tvtyrant]

Yeah I could realise the body weight thing. The exercises I was doing used (small) weights but I didnt have any yesterday but could still feel it. Today I did it all again, but filled up some empty bottles to work until I get something better. Have to say I was still feeling sore from yesterday and just didnt want to do it today, but I know if I start skipping a day this quick it'll happen more and more often.

Tomorrow's the weekend so Im going to go on a shopping trip with the husband to look for healthy meals and those drinks.

It is likely Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness at this point, or DOMS. The only way to get rid of DOMS is to exercise more often.

[Sajiri]

It is likely Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness at this point, or DOMS. The only way to get rid of DOMS is to exercise more often.

Possible, but it also turns out I woke up sick today and achy all over (even my jaw hurts) which Im pretty sure wasnt just from exercising.

[Cozzer]

Whenever I start exercising after a long-ish inactivity, I'm basically guaranteed to get slightly ill for a couple days. I think since the body isn't used to consume that much energy, it uses the energies it would normally reserve for self-defense. :smallbiggrin:

[Sivarias]

Just to jump on the train, I've noticed that too.

As a rule though, if I can get through a month of 3-4 times a week exercising, the fat starts melting off and I feel like a Greek God. It's so glorious. The trick is getting my depression to let me get that far. If I can fight through the depression for a month. I'm golden.

[Cozzer]

Oh god yes, that feeling. The best part is when I start feeling the muscles even when I'm not exercising, usually not long before the changes start becoming visually noticeable.

[AMFV]

Pulled something in my shoulderblade at the gym last night. Not a good feeling.

Well if that's a muscle pull that sucks, if it's pain in the bone, and it persists you definitely should get that checked.


Hello all, today I made my (belated) new years resolution that I am going to lose weight and get fit. I just happened to see this thread after making that decision, so I guess Im jumping in here for support, while also seeing others working at it too. A bit of background to my situation.

My whole life growing up, I was very active. Played a lot of different sport, had highly physical jobs, was always thin and fit. But when I say thin, I mean unhealthily so, I was clearly underweight. This is due to the fact that my mother (while being quite overweight herself, smothering huge plates of food in gravy each night) would go out of her way to make sure I couldn't eat, sometimes up to two days at a time. Not sure why that was, but it resulted in me being able to eat whatever I wanted when I did get the chance without really putting on much weight. This has basically translated into me having no idea how to have a healthy diet now that Im married and not living with my parents. Along with some sporting injuries in the past that had me stop playing all the sport I used to, I've put on a lot of weight, and with other health issues I stopped getting out so much.

Along with my anxiety issues, I don't like to get out much because Im incredibly self conscious. This isnt helped by the fact that my mother and sisters like to go out of there way to make me feel like I am far larger than I am (one sister bought me a dress for christmas that was multiple sizes too large for me, and made a big deal about how it would fit me perfectly, just to try to mask her insults as kindness). I am probably not what is considered 'fat', but definitely overweight, and I dont want to let myself keep going this way when it will only be harder the longer I wait.

Part of this is about my confidence and self image, but another big part is my health. I need to learn how to eat healthier in general, and I want to be able to feel better physically and mentally. I have actually been losing weight lately, but not through any conscious effort- I've been tending to skip meals because some medication Im on just makes me lose my appetite, and I know that starving myself isn't the way to get healthy either.

That sucks, I'm sorry your family sucks sometimes. At least one good thing about working out is that it might reduce the amount of meals you skip, cause you might be hungrier, especially if you're doing some kind of weightlifting. Although since I'm at the point where I'm doing facestuffing stuff, I'm not sure I could give as much advice about the whole eating healthy thing.


This year's plan is to lose the 5 kilos i gained last year, and then 5-10kg more. Biggest thing for me to do right now is cut my sugar and fat intake by a mile - that alone should make me lose the 5kg I gained in the past year quick since it was the main reason I got those kilos in me.

There's about 4,5km to my campus, to which I am currently taking the bus in and walking home, but soon will be walking both ways. That'll mean 20-40km of just walking per week. I have no other plans besides that at this point. More random cycling when spring arrives and I get my chains fixed by my friend.

I know I could easily lose even more and so on, but my eating disorder is a limiting factor; 2015 I ended up starving myself for two weeks when I wasn't meeting my requirements as an example. My mental health comes first.

I would mostly try and do stuff with exercise first if you have eating disorder problems, I don't know if that's the best way to do it, but that way you might not have to focus on food, which seems like it could be a frustrating thing if that's been a problem. Cycling is definitely good for most stuff. And walking 9 km a day is probably a good start, if you have a place to shower and change you could maybe even up that to running or jogging later. Depending on how you like that sort of thing.


Oh I get this hugely. Luckily it seems I got rid of a big contributor to my stress a month ago- and I'm now just not buying the delicious delicious snacks that I wish I could ration out to myself. I can't ration, so I just won't give myself the temptation.


Anyway, I'm new to the thread, but figured I'd post as I'm trying to get fitter after a few years of injuries, followed by complacency and an energy draining living situation. I'd done bits and pieces in that time (mostly running, but nothing great). But yes, I'm throwing myself into getting more active and healthy, whilst still trying to balance my enjoyment of things.

The last few days have been good, managed a 5.2k run a few days ago, without having to walk at any point for the first time in ages. Hoping tomorrow morning is also a success, but I'll try not to beat myself up if its not as good. Running some and walking some is still better than not going right?

On a whim I decided to join some friends who are signing up for a half tough mudder in September, I reckon if an entire new person can grow in that timescale, I can get a bit leaner and fitter. I figure it gives me something concrete to aim at.

Anyway, I'll shush for now, but best of luck to everyone in their journeys!

Awesome! I know a lot of people who've done tough mudders and they all seemed to have a good time. I would recommend signing up as soon as you can, on account of if you've already spent the monies then it'll encourage better training.


I've been learning recently that your own body can serve as an impressively good weight to lift in many various exercises, using little or no equipment. Professional athletes and people looking to go from "fit" to "extremely fit" need something more, but it's plenty for someone out of shape looking to get decently fit and maybe lose some weight. It's called "bodyweight" exercising, if you need any help finding resources on it.

For meal replacement drinks, one that's been getting a lot of popularity and press recently is Soylent (https://www.soylent.com/). I've started drinking about 1 bottle a day of it (substituting maybe a quarter of my overall food). It took a little getting used to at first, but now I actually like the Cacao flavor.

Definitely true, especially if you weigh as much as I do. Calisthenics can have some pretty heavy stopping points though, since there's a point where you won't weigh enough to actually make a movement worth it for improving heavy lifting strength. Like for example, in pushups, for me, I might be pressing the equivalent of... like we'll say between 130 and 190 lbs (between 1/2 and 2/3rds of my body weight). But for a guy who weighs 255, that's not a lot to press. So I would wind up being able to do enough reps that the pressing would be difficult. And then you hit points where to do more challenging calisthenics stuff you have to have enough natural flexibility and joint strength to do it.

As far as meal replacement stuff, I don't know, I mean if you're trying to gain, but otherwise it's always been a pain for me, cause you don't get nearly as satiated for it. As far as the best one, I would say that a lot of the time, milk is a really good one, and cheap too. I mean it's very close to the ideal ratios for something. And it's pretty filling, a little heavy on carbs though.


Possible, but it also turns out I woke up sick today and achy all over (even my jaw hurts) which Im pretty sure wasnt just from exercising.

Well working out can weaken your immune system, and if you're going immediately out in to the cold (like to walk to your car after the gym) that can cause problems too. I mean there's no real way around that. Now your sore jaw could be from exercising, a lot of people clench their jaws when they're straining and that would produce a sore jaw especially if you weren't used to it... It is more likely that you're just sick though, but if your sore jaw persists I might look into a mouth guard or what-not.


It is likely Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness at this point, or DOMS. The only way to get rid of DOMS is to exercise more often.

Actually the way to deal with DOMS is to eat. Like if you're cutting, you'll get DOMS no matter what, even if you've been working out for years. Basically if you feed yourself enough you'll get a lot less soreness, but then you'll have the negative consequences of eating a lot. Which in my case winds up being okay, but for a lot of people might be an issue.



Update on me as well:

Today I started a new deadlifting program, which is a modification of a Russian squatting program, and since it's Russian it's super sadistic. At the peak it will involving deadlifting four days a week, which is definitely going to be the most I've ever deadlifted in terms of volume. It'll also involve deadlifting on unusual work days, which is good because on event days I'll have to deadlift and then do other things, but is going to take some getting used to on the regular. Today wasn't super heavy (for the deadlifting) heaviest I went was 325ish for a single (I say 'ish' cause I was using bumper plates for some of it, cause there weren't enough tens about, and those aren't always calibrated as well).

After that I got to jump right into my regular pushing type stuff. My overhead press is finally moving back up after my broken arm deal, I managed to overhead around 285 today, seated. Which is not bad, and I felt pretty good about it, not being able to overhead my bodyweight has been super discouraging for me. Mostly back to a lot of sets to failure and stuff.

In any case, it was an awesome workout, at least measured in terms of soreness/hunger. Which is good cause that means I'll be making more muscle. So that's how I'm doing, I'll also include my post-gym snack, since I'm super proud of it, but I'm spoilering it, on account of the fact that folks who are trying to lose might not want to see it.

It was four ice cream sandwiches and an entire can of Pringles, not the healthiest choice, but it worked out well, and I'm hungry still, so probably I needed at least some of those empty calories to help my body recover from that absolutely miserable lifting day. Miserable in a good way though.

Edit: Actually it was five ice cream sandwiches...

And in bad news, my trainer apparently has discovered Zercher Squats, which is probably equivalent to some form of medieval torture. Or at least that was how I was feeling on Thursday.

[Douglas]

Definitely true, especially if you weigh as much as I do. Calisthenics can have some pretty heavy stopping points though, since there's a point where you won't weigh enough to actually make a movement worth it for improving heavy lifting strength. Like for example, in pushups, for me, I might be pressing the equivalent of... like we'll say between 130 and 190 lbs (between 1/2 and 2/3rds of my body weight). But for a guy who weighs 255, that's not a lot to press. So I would wind up being able to do enough reps that the pressing would be difficult. And then you hit points where to do more challenging calisthenics stuff you have to have enough natural flexibility and joint strength to do it.
Well, part of the routine I'm doing will eventually become handstand pushups. It's exactly what it sounds like, and involves pressing 100% of your body weight.

But yes, if you get to that point you can't go any further without additional weights, which is why I mentioned that serious athletes and professionals need more.

[Tvtyrant]

I've been learning recently that your own body can serve as an impressively good weight to lift in many various exercises, using little or no equipment. Professional athletes and people looking to go from "fit" to "extremely fit" need something more, but it's plenty for someone out of shape looking to get decently fit and maybe lose some weight. It's called "bodyweight" exercising, if you need any help finding resources on it.

For meal replacement drinks, one that's been getting a lot of popularity and press recently is Soylent (https://www.soylent.com/). I've started drinking about 1 bottle a day of it (substituting maybe a quarter of my overall food). It took a little getting used to at first, but now I actually like the Cacao flavor.

I hear some good things about Soylent, but be warned it is banned in Canada for making unproven health claims.

[AMFV]

Well, part of the routine I'm doing will eventually become handstand pushups. It's exactly what it sounds like, and involves pressing 100% of your body weight.

But yes, if you get to that point you can't go any further without additional weights, which is why I mentioned that serious athletes and professionals need more.

Well there are ways to involve torque and stuff and gymnastic type movements to where you can actually load more than your bodyweight into a bodyweight movement. But the issue is that those tend to require flexibility and stability and stuff that not everybody has.

Is that the Prison Workout one? I remember that being a super intense awesome workout.

And there are definitely some movements that always involve your whole bodyweight, like pullups or whatnot. And you can add weights to things sometimes. Or just be really large like me.

[2D8HP]

Well dang!

I don't make resolutions, and normally my attitude towards physical effort, is to do it when I'm paid to (except bicycling, I like exploring but hate driving, and I gave up on motorcycles when my son was born).

But this week, I had to get a drum snake (one of these (http://www.spartantool.com/model-100-drain-cleaning-machine-with-1-2--drum-products-800.php?page_id=675), a 100 feet of cable, and an "optional" control head, add about another 100 pounds to it), to a clean out inside a plumbing chase in the jail, and a couple of years before, me and a co-worker (who's about a year younger than me) have done it by lifting the machine up over the vent pipes, and getting it inside. Not this time! I had to disassemble the machine, carry it piece by piece, and than guess right on re-assembling it, taking much longer to do the job.

I hate that my job depends not just on skill, but on physical ability (as a better person than I posted at this Forum "Also, I hate sports"), but I now need to get stronger and have better endurance.

Dang it!

[AMFV]

I hate that my job depends not just on skill, but on physical ability (as a better person than I posted at this Forum "Also, I hate sports"), but I now need to get stronger and have better endurance.

Dang it!

That sucks man, actually I've found that "gym fitness" and "work fitness" are very often not as related as I would like. I'm not sure if there's a perfect solution to that, but it makes it a lot harder to train for.

[Tvtyrant]

Well dang!

I don't make resolutions, and normally my attitude towards physical effort, is to do it when I'm paid to (except bicycling, I like exploring but hate driving, and I gave up on motorcycles when my son was born).

But this week, I had to get a drum snake (one of these (http://www.spartantool.com/model-100-drain-cleaning-machine-with-1-2--drum-products-800.php?page_id=675), a 100 feet of cable, and an "optional" control head, add about another 100 pounds to it), to a clean out inside a plumbing chase in the jail, and a couple of years before, me and a co-worker (who's about a year younger than me) have done it by lifting the machine up over the vent pipes, and getting it inside. Not this time! I had to disassemble the machine, carry it piece by piece, and than guess right on re-assembling it, taking much longer to do the job.

I hate that my job depends not just on skill, but on physical ability (as a better person than I posted at this Forum "Also, I hate sports"), but I now need to get stronger and have better endurance.

Dang it!

When I worked for UPS the older drivers told me that despite carrying boxes briskly for most of the day you still needed to go the gym or you would wear out. Not sure why gym excercises led to better muscle development and more energy, but it did.

[Jormengand]

So, I have a problem which is kinda the inverse of the problem a lot of people have been having in this thread: I'm way, way too thin.

It's not like I'm not eating enough. I eat like anything, easily getting through my 2000 calorie recommendation one and a half to two times over and sometimes eating up to 8000 calories (no, I'm not accidentally reading the joule values instead), and I still get comments worrying that I'm not eating enough or asking if I'm anorexic. And in fairness, my body shape does little to dispel that: you can see my collarbones clearly and the top few bones of my ribcage without particular issue (the rest are visible if I take off my top). The shape of my body is defined by the fact that my ribcage is noticeably bigger than my waist (which you can see through my top). And I have no idea how to put on more weight - I'll be sick if I try to eat more than quadruple what I should be on a regular basis, in the first instance. Plus, given that I'm (finally) developing in certain areas (like my chest) I imagine that a lot of my body fat will wind up there (which isn't a bad thing necessarily, because I would quite like to have decent growth in that area, but it doesn't really help with the fact that I'm really quite thin everywhere else). So I'm entirely not sure what the hell to do. Any thoughts?

[Tvtyrant]

So, I have a problem which is kinda the inverse of the problem a lot of people have been having in this thread: I'm way, way too thin.

It's not like I'm not eating enough. I eat like anything, easily getting through my 2000 calorie recommendation one and a half to two times over and sometimes eating up to 8000 calories (no, I'm not accidentally reading the joule values instead), and I still get comments worrying that I'm not eating enough or asking if I'm anorexic. And in fairness, my body shape does little to dispel that: you can see my collarbones clearly and the top few bones of my ribcage without particular issue (the rest are visible if I take off my top). The shape of my body is defined by the fact that my ribcage is noticeably bigger than my waist (which you can see through my top). And I have no idea how to put on more weight - I'll be sick if I try to eat more than quadruple what I should be on a regular basis, in the first instance. Plus, given that I'm (finally) developing in certain areas (like my chest) I imagine that a lot of my body fat will wind up there (which isn't a bad thing necessarily, because I would quite like to have decent growth in that area, but it doesn't really help with the fact that I'm really quite thin everywhere else). So I'm entirely not sure what the hell to do. Any thoughts?

What does your food consist of? What forms of excercise do you do regularly? Have you had tests done for T1 Diabetes or other conditions?

My workout parter went from 6ft 130lbs to 163 pounds by lifting, he won't put on fat period. He drinks a shake with each meal after eating what he can make himself put down, abd we work out 4x a week. Weightlifting and cycling have been very effective with high protein content.

[AMFV]

When I worked for UPS the older drivers told me that despite carrying boxes briskly for most of the day you still needed to go the gym or you would wear out. Not sure why gym excercises led to better muscle development and more energy, but it did.

It depends though. I've found that even when I was in really good shape gym-wise, I was not always in really good shape, construction carpentry wise. So a lot of it depends on exactly what kind of job you have and how physically involved it is.


So, I have a problem which is kinda the inverse of the problem a lot of people have been having in this thread: I'm way, way too thin.

It's not like I'm not eating enough. I eat like anything, easily getting through my 2000 calorie recommendation one and a half to two times over and sometimes eating up to 8000 calories (no, I'm not accidentally reading the joule values instead), and I still get comments worrying that I'm not eating enough or asking if I'm anorexic. And in fairness, my body shape does little to dispel that: you can see my collarbones clearly and the top few bones of my ribcage without particular issue (the rest are visible if I take off my top). The shape of my body is defined by the fact that my ribcage is noticeably bigger than my waist (which you can see through my top). And I have no idea how to put on more weight - I'll be sick if I try to eat more than quadruple what I should be on a regular basis, in the first instance. Plus, given that I'm (finally) developing in certain areas (like my chest) I imagine that a lot of my body fat will wind up there (which isn't a bad thing necessarily, because I would quite like to have decent growth in that area, but it doesn't really help with the fact that I'm really quite thin everywhere else). So I'm entirely not sure what the hell to do. Any thoughts?

Well the first problem is that gaining weight is a great deal more complex than losing is. I mean you don't have any way of ensuring that the calories you're eating are actually being used by your body. You could try upping your liquid calories or setting up your gym regimen. But I don't think any of hat is gaurantee

[Sajiri]

So, I have a problem which is kinda the inverse of the problem a lot of people have been having in this thread: I'm way, way too thin.

It's not like I'm not eating enough. I eat like anything, easily getting through my 2000 calorie recommendation one and a half to two times over and sometimes eating up to 8000 calories (no, I'm not accidentally reading the joule values instead), and I still get comments worrying that I'm not eating enough or asking if I'm anorexic. And in fairness, my body shape does little to dispel that: you can see my collarbones clearly and the top few bones of my ribcage without particular issue (the rest are visible if I take off my top). The shape of my body is defined by the fact that my ribcage is noticeably bigger than my waist (which you can see through my top). And I have no idea how to put on more weight - I'll be sick if I try to eat more than quadruple what I should be on a regular basis, in the first instance. Plus, given that I'm (finally) developing in certain areas (like my chest) I imagine that a lot of my body fat will wind up there (which isn't a bad thing necessarily, because I would quite like to have decent growth in that area, but it doesn't really help with the fact that I'm really quite thin everywhere else). So I'm entirely not sure what the hell to do. Any thoughts?

Just to throw it out there, there are health reasons that could prevent you from putting on weight too. Im not a doctor so I cant really say anything based on what you've described, but one of my sisters once looked like what you described, and it wasnt until her late 20s it was realised she had an overactive thyroid, which, among other things, caused her to always be incredibly thin despite what she ate.

[Jormengand]

What does your food consist of? What forms of excercise do you do regularly? Have you had tests done for T1 Diabetes or other conditions?

My diet is a vegan diet for reasons I won't compromise on, which I know doesn't help, but I regularly eat some kind of substitute-meat at about 1.5-2 times the recommended portion, some kind of carbohydrate (usually pasta, rice, chips, the relatively-standard kinds of foods for our western standard of what ordinary food is I guess) to multiple times (2-3) the recommendation and some kind of vegetable (I usually have a bit of a variety) to a decent level. For lunch I'll usually have a couple of sandwiches ("Butter" with nutritional values nigh-identical to spreadable mostly-butter substances anyway and some kind of fake meat) and I'll usually have cereal with milklike substance (I'm really selling the diet, I know) for breakfast, easily devouring triple what's listed. I also get hungry sometimes and eat entire packets of snacks at once then look and realise I've had multiple times the serving suggestion on those too.

Exercise is a problem because I don't have enough upper body strength for decent upper body exercises (I can do all of nine push-ups before becoming exhausted, just as a quick test). As for lower body, I usually get a fair deal of exercise just from my propensity for walking everywhere (I remember having the choice between spending a few pounds on a train and walking five miles to get home after a long day, and just thinking "Screw it, I'll walk") but I have difficulty sustaining high-intensity exercise just because I get exhausted quickly.

I'm pretty certain I don't have diabetes, especially since there's no family history of it, but I honestly have no idea what I do have that's causing me to eat several times what I should be with no real effect.


Well the first problem is that gaining weight is a great deal more complex than losing is. I mean you don't have any way of ensuring that the calories you're eating are actually being used by your body. You could try upping your liquid calories or setting up your gym regimen. But I don't think any of hat is gaurantee

To be honest, I don't really have a great idea of how to make my body do the things I want (I'm great to have around if bits of your body are actually damaged or suddenly stop working, but my biology knowledge doesn't extend much beyond that and a low-level qualification that I've mostly forgotten and mostly isn't relevant anyway) so I have absolutely no idea what an effective gym regimen for putting on weight and making sure I have the right body fat distribution and whatever would even look like.


Just to throw it out there, there are health reasons that could prevent you from putting on weight too. Im not a doctor so I cant really say anything based on what you've described, but one of my sisters once looked like what you described, and it wasnt until her late 20s it was realised she had an overactive thyroid, which, among other things, caused her to always be incredibly thin despite what she ate.

Yeah, this is another problem. I have no idea what's going on with my body, honestly. I have no doubt that my hormones doing abnormal things to my body at abnormal times and my unusual diet aren't helping with the "Know what the hell is going on with own body" attempts, but not knowing anything health-related either is a pain.

[Iruka]

My diet is a vegan diet for reasons I won't compromise on, which I know doesn't help, but I regularly eat some kind of substitute-meat at about 1.5-2 times the recommended portion, some kind of carbohydrate (usually pasta, rice, chips, the relatively-standard kinds of foods for our western standard of what ordinary food is I guess) to multiple times (2-3) the recommendation and some kind of vegetable (I usually have a bit of a variety) to a decent level. For lunch I'll usually have a couple of sandwiches ("Butter" with nutritional values nigh-identical to spreadable mostly-butter substances anyway and some kind of fake meat) and I'll usually have cereal with milklike substance (I'm really selling the diet, I know) for breakfast, easily devouring triple what's listed. I also get hungry sometimes and eat entire packets of snacks at once then look and realise I've had multiple times the serving suggestion on those too.

Exercise is a problem because I don't have enough upper body strength for decent upper body exercises (I can do all of nine push-ups before becoming exhausted, just as a quick test). As for lower body, I usually get a fair deal of exercise just from my propensity for walking everywhere (I remember having the choice between spending a few pounds on a train and walking five miles to get home after a long day, and just thinking "Screw it, I'll walk") but I have difficulty sustaining high-intensity exercise just because I get exhausted quickly.

I'm pretty certain I don't have diabetes, especially since there's no family history of it, but I honestly have no idea what I do have that's causing me to eat several times what I should be with no real effect.

To be honest, I don't really have a great idea of how to make my body do the things I want (I'm great to have around if bits of your body are actually damaged or suddenly stop working, but my biology knowledge doesn't extend much beyond that and a low-level qualification that I've mostly forgotten and mostly isn't relevant anyway) so I have absolutely no idea what an effective gym regimen for putting on weight and making sure I have the right body fat distribution and whatever would even look like.

Yeah, this is another problem. I have no idea what's going on with my body, honestly. I have no doubt that my hormones doing abnormal things to my body at abnormal times and my unusual diet aren't helping with the "Know what the hell is going on with own body" attempts, but not knowing anything health-related either is a pain.

Getting strong on vegan diet is definitely possible. Some strongmen are vegan, like Patrik Baboumian (http://www.greatveganathletes.com/patrik-baboumian-vegan-strongman) and several (https://barbend.com/strongest-vegans-on-earth/) more. I cannot speak on the quality of this advice but there is a lot information out there about being vegan (http://www.nomeatathlete.com/vegetarian-recipes-for-athletes/) and athletic (https://www.amazon.de/Attila-Hildmanns-Challenge-Kochb%C3%BCcher-Hildmann/dp/3954530120).

Now, your inabilty to put on any weight is a different thing. I strongly recommend getting this looked into by a medical expert. Could be just a highly unusual metabolism, could be a symptom of some kind of medical condition.

9 push-ups on the first try is not that bad by the way. I think I am already reasonably fit, but manage about 15 when I really watch my form.


On the topic of push-ups: Someone linked a video about proper form earlier. The guy stressed the importance of keeping the arms close to the body. I had understood previously that close or wide are not a matter of proper form but about which muscles you want to target. Can someone shed some more light on this?

[Honest Tiefling]

...And I'll usually have cereal with milklike substance (I'm really selling the diet, I know) for breakfast, easily devouring triple what's listed.

Out of curiosity, what milk-like substance do you favor, and how does it compare nutritionally? I have issues finding dairy I can consume.

As for your issue, have you had your thyroid checked recently? It's worth a shot. I hope you find out what is happening to you.

[paddyfool]

@Jormengand,

How old are you, out of curiosity, and how long have you had difficulty putting on weight for? I won't quiz you on the rest of the history as this isn't the place for it, just looking for a bit of context.

In any case, I second the advice to go see a doctor. They should go through this history with you in more detail, do a physical examination and probably some blood tests.

Also, don't worry about the 9 push ups - it's not a bad point to start at. Train and it will get better. Should it turn out that you're just naturally skinny, maybe look into climbing. It's a fun sport that favours people who are relatively light (on account of power to weight ratio), and it'll help you get stronger too.

[Sivarias]

I have some great news and some not so great news. As well as a question.

Great News! Now that the semester has started for real I'm able to consistantly work out. I have hit the gym for the last two days like I wanted to. Apart from some DOMS I'm feeling so great. I feel like a Greek demi-god after workouts. Just call me Percy Jackson 2.0! :smallbiggrin: I've also been able to fix my schedule so I can graduate on time and not have to delay my graduation!!

But that's the bad news. I'm taking 20 hours this semester :smalleek: (Thank you prerequisites and 4 classes that are only offered once a year at one of the largest engineering schools in the south :smallmad:) That means that while I have time for exercise. I don't have time for accurate meal prep. That means that I don't have time to weigh and measure everything. So while I'm still able to cook good stuff (chicken, cauli-mash, rice, quinoa, broccoli, etc.) I don't have time to measure amounts and record it. Frankly I'm just eyeballing it and guesstimating. Since I'm guesstimating, I can't expect the awesome results I normally do, if any results at all frankly. *shrug* I'll get over it. Right now it'll just be a routine adjustment until I get used to it or finish the semester.

Funnily enough, I have to take 9 hours over the summer, then THREE in the fall. Then I graduate. So WOOHOO!!

About DOMS. I find that after Push or Pull day (especially pull day) I don't have the full range of motion in my arms. It's EXTREMELY painful to fully extend my arm, and in fact I usually have to assist to fully extend and stretch it out (lean on a wall and such). I feel this isn't normal. I suspect it's because I'm not stretching right. For those of you who are more in the know. How should I stretch? I've heard that static stretching is bad from you and you should do "dynamic" stretching, but I have no idea how that works aside from at the beginning of your exercise doing that exercise on a low weight to warm up.

That being said, I'm still at REALLY low weights and even then it'll easily add close to 30 minutes to my workouts. I can't imagine what that would do to someone whose lifting like AFV does.

[Jormengand]

Out of curiosity, what milk-like substance do you favor, and how does it compare nutritionally? I have issues finding dairy I can consume.

I've had all sorts - soya milk, almond milk, even rice milk. Most of them are roughly comparable nutritionally, AFAICR, but you might wanna look them up. Soya milk contains phytoœstrogens which may affect - or even effect - breast growth if you have it regularly, though.


As for your issue, have you had your thyroid checked recently? It's worth a shot. I hope you find out what is happening to you.

That's something that a lot of people have suggested getting checked, so it might be a good idea. Haven't yet, though.


How old are you, out of curiosity, and how long have you had difficulty putting on weight for? I won't quiz you on the rest of the history as this isn't the place for it, just looking for a bit of context.

I'm 20. I've had difficulty putting on weight since I was a little kid (going through Bulimia for a few months probably didn't help, but doesn't seem to be related to the problem in general). My entire family eats a little bit more than normal, but one of them is a professional athlete and the rest have relatively standard healthy bodies.

[AMFV]

Jor, I'm going to be pretty honest with you, the vegan diet is probably a BIG part of your problem, barring any kind of thyroid problem, people on vegan diets are known to have problems with gaining weight. Not necessarily because of calories, but because it is more difficult to break down a lot of the veggies and veggie-derived stuff to get the caloric value from it. In the case of Clarence Kennedy and Patrick Baboumian they were both very large already when they switched over to that diet, and notably none of them have performed well since. So it's going to be an uphill battle for sure.

Pretty much the only solid advice I can give for that is to increase your intake of oils, there are plenty of very fatty vegan oils that your body will be able to absorb relatively quickly and that can definitely improve your ability to deal with stuff like that. Also if you're doing anything with hormones or anything like that (I don't remember if you were one of the folks that was or not, so please forgive me if I'm not attaching the right forum person to the right set of posts) but that can a very significant effect on how your body is dealing with fat production and retention as well as muscle development, so keep that in mind as well.


Sivarius! DOMS is pretty normal, although not being able to extend your arms out all the way is not... so much. You may be overworking in the gym, or it might just be extra soreness for a number of reasons. It's possible that you are undereating, that's the most common cause of post-workout soreness is if you don't have enough fuel to deal with the problems caused by working out. Generally though when you start having problems like you're describing it may be time for a deloading week, although if you aren't lifting heavy yet, then you probably don't need one. I would try maybe some ibuprofin, that's a pretty solid solution for post workout soreness and if it's only a couple days a week it probably won't be that big a deal, but if you have to take pills everyday then you want to adjust things cause that is not the best for you.

Also that could be caused by muscle imbalances, particularly between your tricep and bicep, which are the main movers in extending and pulling the arm in. If you have overworked and over-developed your biceps and underdeveloped your triceps, then arm extension and lockout is going to be a problem for you. What's your pushing workout like?

Yeah, definitely the more I think about it the more that sounds like muscle imbalances. So definitely that's something you should look into, and part of the problem with triceps is that basically you could do "tricep" exercises and not work them that much if you're cheating the lockout at all.


On pushups... no you don't have to keep your arms next to your body. What you don't want is for your arms to start creeping further forward so they're above your shoulders or what not. Hand placement-wise anyways. As far as muscles worked. General rule is that wider spread will involve more chest activation and narrow spread will involve more tricep activation. But that's super dependent on exactly how you are constructed and your bio mechanics. Like a slight difference in forearm length to the rest of your arm length can make a huge difference.

[Tvtyrant]

AMFV do you know of anyway to gain muscle while cutting? I am losing weight like mad but my gym performance is slow to develop and my muscle gains are minimal.

If not what weight do I need to cut to before bulking? How quickly do you gain muscle bulking vs. Cutting?

[AMFV]

AMFV do you know of anyway to gain muscle while cutting? I am losing weight like mad but my gym performance is slow to develop and my muscle gains are minimal.


You can't. Not even on Ronnie Coleman's bucket o'drugs, you can't. I mean you can do a recomp and switch some fat for muscle, but that's generally a bad plan in terms of getting results faster. Basically the reason that people do recomp things is generally that they don't want to gain any fat at all. (Like fitness models or actors who have to look good most of the time), or people who are self conscious about their weight and don't want to look worse for any period of time. But there is a reason why every single bodybuilder does a bulk-cut cycle.

So when you're cutting you can actually expect when you get further developed that you'll actually lose strength, like a ten percent strength loss is not unusual. Although undesirable.



If not what weight do I need to cut to before bulking? How quickly do you gain muscle bulking vs. Cutting?

Depends... are you prepping for a show or for a specific event? If so then what you want to do is figure out how much fat you have, in lbs, and figure out where you want to be on stage date. Assume that when you're gaining 50% (or more) of your gains are going to be just more fat. And then you can reliably lose between 1-2 lbs a week, so that should give you a very solid idea about when you need to start cutting. Especially if you do body fat measurements more regular.

If you aren't prepping for a specific event then these are the criteria you need to think about... how good are you at packing on muscle pounds? Like if you're still increasing in strength you could theoretically gain weight until you weighed however much you are comfortable with as a maximum and cut from there. But again it's mostly comfort more than anything else. If you're okay being heavier you can bulk for longer, if you don't want to be heavier, then you can't bulk for as long.

As far as how you gain, it depends completely on your genetics, your diet, and if you have "help". And I don't know any of those variables, gaining 10 lbs of muscle in a year if you are doing both a cut/bulk cycle is considered to be quite good, and I would expect more like 5 for the average person. Although the further you are from gaining as much muscle as you can the faster you'll gain.

That's about all the advice I know to give, I'm the guy who went to the gym when I was cutting and said "**** this, I'm just going to be the strongest dude in the gym". So that's what I started to work towards. So I never cut, and I have some healthy abdominal fat, although for a guy who does strongman that's actually not a bad thing. But yeah it all depends on your goals and how comfortable you are with stuff. Basically if you aren't show-prepping, start bulking once you've gotten as lean as you wanted to get, then stop bulking when you get as fat as you can handle being.

[Tvtyrant]

I started lifting back in September because I wanted to keep losing weight (I was/am immensely obese) and walking 10+ miles a day in the Oregon rain wasn't going to work. I dropped from 420 in June to 348 now, combining Keto with 4x week workouts but my muscles haven't developed much since November (beginner improvements).

I'm pretty much stuck at the same weights and intensity for a couple months, and I an getting a little frustrated as it is much lower then I did in highschool or college with much less consistency.

I feel like I am still too heavy to bulk, but I want to get stronger too. No drugs btw.

[Jormengand]

Jor, I'm going to be pretty honest with you, the vegan diet is probably a BIG part of your problem, barring any kind of thyroid problem, people on vegan diets are known to have problems with gaining weight.

The weight gain problems predate the veganism by practically the entirety of my life, so I will respectfully disagree that it's as substantial as you're making it out to be.


Pretty much the only solid advice I can give for that is to increase your intake of oils, there are plenty of very fatty vegan oils that your body will be able to absorb relatively quickly and that can definitely improve your ability to deal with stuff like that. Also if you're doing anything with hormones or anything like that (I don't remember if you were one of the folks that was or not, so please forgive me if I'm not attaching the right forum person to the right set of posts) but that can a very significant effect on how your body is dealing with fat production and retention as well as muscle development, so keep that in mind as well.

Yeah, I'm transitioning MtF (hormonally speaking, at least - "F" barely even begins to describe my actual gender) and acutely aware that a lot of the fat development may easily be going straight to my chest, and that it'll mess a bunch of other stuff up besides. I have absolutely no idea what to do about that, though.

[AMFV]

I started lifting back in September because I wanted to keep losing weight (I was/am immensely obese) and walking 10+ miles a day in the Oregon rain wasn't going to work. I dropped from 420 in June to 348 now, combining Keto with 4x week workouts but my muscles haven't developed much since November (beginner improvements).

That's a lot of weight to carry around. Conventional wisdom would tell you to keep cutting, but again it's all what you want out of your workouts and what you want as your goals. You could maybe slightly up your caloric intake and then start cutting after a short short (like 2 weeks) gaining or strengthing cycle, that might be something I would try. Like just whenever you're getting super frustrated do that, and then keep doing that until you're at point where you are able to manage that better.

Also for some people Keto can be really really bad for strength gains. Like for me personally... I can't even lift when I try Keto it kills my energy completely to the point where I can barely function, and so that could be impacting things somewhat, but from what I've heard that's different for different people.

How long are your workouts and what kind of intensity level are you managing during them? Cause that'll help too.



I feel like I am still too heavy to bulk, but I want to get stronger too. No drugs btw.

Yeah, you're in a difficult place. I would say that for somebody as heavy as you are, you've got some advantages over very thing people who are trying to cut and gain. I mean you could try doing more lifts to maximal effort that would be the typical way to keep that strength improving.


The weight gain problems predate the veganism by practically the entirety of my life, so I will respectfully disagree that it's as substantial as you're making it out to be.

I think you may be overreading how substantial I think veganism is in this case. It is something that is definitely going to make gaining more difficult, it just is. I mean I live in a world of strength athletes. Vegan strength athletes need to do a LOT more work to put on pounds than non-vegan strength athletes. And that filters down to nonathletic folk.

I mean I wouldn't say that you should stop being vegan at all. I would say that you should be aware that you are coming at weight gain from a position where you're at a disadvantage. I'd say the same thing to somebody who was wanting to gain weight and they ran five miles a day, it's something that you have to consider as something to work around. Again my recommendation would be more oils, peanut oil, coconut especially (coconut oil is like magic in some ways). And then you can use that to substitute out for things where you're not getting as much caloric density as you need for the weight gain.



Yeah, I'm transitioning MtF (hormonally speaking, at least - "F" barely even begins to describe my actual gender) and acutely aware that a lot of the fat development may easily be going straight to my chest, and that it'll mess a bunch of other stuff up besides. I have absolutely no idea what to do about that, though.

Good news is that estrogen makes it easier to gain fat and weight of that kind. I mean harder to gain muscle weight but easier to gain fatty weight, which if you're chronically underweight as you describe, would probably be a good thing. So you might try definitely oils and increasing your fat intake, that would definitely be what I would try. Even maybe to the point of doing things like straight up warming up and then drinking coconut oil, which I've done, it sucks but it's a ton of calories fairly easily. (Like I've done two tablespoons at a time, which is a couple hundred calories, tastes awful though by itself.

[Tvtyrant]

That's a lot of weight to carry around. Conventional wisdom would tell you to keep cutting, but again it's all what you want out of your workouts and what you want as your goals. You could maybe slightly up your caloric intake and then start cutting after a short short (like 2 weeks) gaining or strengthing cycle, that might be something I would try. Like just whenever you're getting super frustrated do that, and then keep doing that until you're at point where you are able to manage that better.

Also for some people Keto can be really really bad for strength gains. Like for me personally... I can't even lift when I try Keto it kills my energy completely to the point where I can barely function, and so that could be impacting things somewhat, but from what I've heard that's different for different people.

How long are your workouts and what kind of intensity level are you managing during them? Cause that'll help too.



Yeah, you're in a difficult place. I would say that for somebody as heavy as you are, you've got some advantages over very thing people who are trying to cut and gain. I mean you could try doing more lifts to maximal effort that would be the typical way to keep that strength improving.

Not a bad idea honestly. Could add some oats and peanut butter for a while, then go back in a few weeks once I see some results.

Intensity wise not fantastic, my workout partner is not enthusiastic at all and would stop going if I made it any harder then it is. Basically we do:
Bicycle
Bench
Inclined Bench
Rope Resistance for Biceps and Triceps 8 minutes each
Leg machines
100 reaches
Walking lunges
Fin

Or:
Bicycle
Squat
Good Morning
Rows
Chinups
OHP
Skullcrushers
Planks
Fin

About 1 1/2 hours now, used to take 2.

[Sivarias]

If you promise not to laugh at the weights I'm "tossing" around, I can share my workout plan with you.

Google Sheets here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10eZPCcShqsaolLc2BsN0FJ_i2RY1kOVQLTC7Jv_AaGM/edit?usp=sharing)
It's a modified PPL-PPL 6 day a week program. I have access to the school gym 5 days a week and it's actually better for my mental health if I go the the gym 5-6 times a week. That's why I'm not on a beginner 3-day a week program.

I'm trying to cut and bulk at the same time. I know it's impossible to get any serious gains when you are cutting, but I'm finally getting my 200g of protein a day. I'm hitting between 1800-2000 calories a day, and I plan on staying on the cut until I'm comfortable looking in the mirror. Which I suspect will be around the 200lb mark. (I'm 6' dude and my family is all very large framed. Less classic athletic and more viking tree-trunk. It helps that I'm on testosterone for my hypogonadism. (I recently took an inbody and found I've put on 5 lbs of skeletal muscle mass in the last 2 months :smallbiggrin:)

[AMFV]

Not a bad idea honestly. Could add some oats and peanut butter for a while, then go back in a few weeks once I see some results.

Intensity wise not fantastic, my workout partner is not enthusiastic at all and would stop going if I made it any harder then it is. Basically we do:
Bicycle
Bench
Inclined Bench
Rope Resistance for Biceps and Triceps 8 minutes each
Leg machines
100 reaches
Walking lunges
Fin

Or:
Bicycle
Squat
Good Morning
Rows
Chinups
OHP
Skullcrushers
Planks
Fin

About 1 1/2 hours now, used to take 2.

Mostly what I was meaning in terms of intensity and stuff is like your rep ranges. Like when you do OHP are you doing a weight that you could do comfortably for ten reps and then stopping at ten? Are you doing a weight that you can do for seven reps going to failure and then going to where literally you're forced to dump the weight cause you're about to drop it on your head. Or going for speed and explosiveness. That sort of thing is really what's going to determine your strength gain, for most people.


If you promise not to laugh at the weights I'm "tossing" around, I can share my workout plan with you.

Google Sheets here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10eZPCcShqsaolLc2BsN0FJ_i2RY1kOVQLTC7Jv_AaGM/edit?usp=sharing)
It's a modified PPL-PPL 6 day a week program. I have access to the school gym 5 days a week and it's actually better for my mental health if I go the the gym 5-6 times a week. That's why I'm not on a beginner 3-day a week program.


That doesn't sound too bad, I would say that looking at your program I can't see necessarily why you'd have an imbalance. But I think that what I would do if I were in your shoes is instead of doing a push/pull day, the second half of the week, I'd do another pushing day until you feel that your triceps are starting to match up, or until you stop having that same soreness after pull days. I would try about a month at first, but that's just me personally.



I'm trying to cut and bulk at the same time. I know it's impossible to get any serious gains when you are cutting, but I'm finally getting my 200g of protein a day. I'm hitting between 1800-2000 calories a day, and I plan on staying on the cut until I'm comfortable looking in the mirror. Which I suspect will be around the 200lb mark. (I'm 6' dude and my family is all very large framed. Less classic athletic and more viking tree-trunk. It helps that I'm on testosterone for my hypogonadism. (I recently took an inbody and found I've put on 5 lbs of skeletal muscle mass in the last 2 months :smallbiggrin:)

Well, recomping is a thing, it's just less efficient. Like I said there are definitely reasons to do it. Like if you don't want to gain a bunch of weight to also gain the muscle. Which is fine, I mean if you aren't prepping for a specific show or event, then it shouldn't matter if you're squeezing out slightly less gains than you otherwise might be.

Test definitely helps. I can tell you that if you had been all out bulking 10 lbs wouldn't be unusual for your first time on test and lifting. In a two monthperiod. Now, you'd have put on a considerable bit of fat with that though, so again everything is your comfort level for that sort of thing.

[Sivarias]

That doesn't sound too bad, I would say that looking at your program I can't see necessarily why you'd have an imbalance. But I think that what I would do if I were in your shoes is instead of doing a push/pull day, the second half of the week, I'd do another pushing day until you feel that your triceps are starting to match up, or until you stop having that same soreness after pull days. I would try about a month at first, but that's just me personally.

Well, recomping is a thing, it's just less efficient. Like I said there are definitely reasons to do it. Like if you don't want to gain a bunch of weight to also gain the muscle. Which is fine, I mean if you aren't prepping for a specific show or event, then it shouldn't matter if you're squeezing out slightly less gains than you otherwise might be.

Test definitely helps. I can tell you that if you had been all out bulking 10 lbs wouldn't be unusual for your first time on test and lifting. In a two monthperiod. Now, you'd have put on a considerable bit of fat with that though, so again everything is your comfort level for that sort of thing.

Thanks for the tips. I try to push to failure while still in those rep ranges. After some trial and error this week, it was definitely a lack of proper warming up. Now I'm making sure to stretch every day, and in some cases between exercises or even sets if I'm experiencing any tightness. It's definitely a lot better.

I'm starting to run into lower-back pain issues again on leg day. :smallmad: I had a herniated disc at one point and while I don't think I still have it (I'm no longer in constant nauseating pain anyway) anytime I put serious pressure on my lower back I'll get a pain spike warning me I'm doing to much. The issue is I need to strengthen those support muscles because they've atrophied from desk work and poor posture, as well as being extremely cautious about flair ups. I think I'm slowly learning to discern between "Push through this pain" and "stop before you hurt yourself again." It's just frustrating that my lower back is the limiting factor with all of my leg weight.

In other news I just finished my first week of nutrition and exercise as well. Even when I was hungry and wanted a snack, I resisted. Even when I felt like hell today I still hit the gym. It's good to feel like I'm getting into the swing of things here. Two rest days, and then I'm back in the saddle. Having my hormones approaching normal is DEFINITELY making a difference in everything. I'm actually hungry now, rather than eating because I'm supposed to be. I've got the energy to get that explosive power. The willpower is there to push through that ONE LAST REP while I'm shaking and tired. It's just great.

Also, for those looking for a protein powder or source, Forza Pro Chocolate Mint tastes the EXACT same as mint cookies and cream ice cream. I have to stop myself at two scoops post workout, it's SOOO good.

[Cozzer]

In other news I just finished my first week of nutrition and exercise as well. Even when I was hungry and wanted a snack, I resisted. Even when I felt like hell today I still hit the gym. It's good to feel like I'm getting into the swing of things here. Two rest days, and then I'm back in the saddle. Having my hormones approaching normal is DEFINITELY making a difference in everything. I'm actually hungry now, rather than eating because I'm supposed to be. I've got the energy to get that explosive power. The willpower is there to push through that ONE LAST REP while I'm shaking and tired. It's just great.

That's great! :smallbiggrin: My leg has been healing way slower than I would have expected, but I've managed to restart my usual workouts a few days ago, and it makes all the difference in how I feel, even emotionally.

[AMFV]

Thanks for the tips. I try to push to failure while still in those rep ranges. After some trial and error this week, it was definitely a lack of proper warming up. Now I'm making sure to stretch every day, and in some cases between exercises or even sets if I'm experiencing any tightness. It's definitely a lot better.

Stretching can be pretty key, something else that might help is running through the movements a few times before executing them with heavy weights. Like barbell squat with just the bar for a few sets (I usually don't even count for those but I do something like 5-10, pretty slowly) just to open your hips up and make sure that your set up is really good.

That's especially important if you're getting pain in places you ought not to be, like back pain on squat day and stuff. Although RDLs could potentially be your culprit there.



I'm starting to run into lower-back pain issues again on leg day. :smallmad: I had a herniated disc at one point and while I don't think I still have it (I'm no longer in constant nauseating pain anyway) anytime I put serious pressure on my lower back I'll get a pain spike warning me I'm doing to much. The issue is I need to strengthen those support muscles because they've atrophied from desk work and poor posture, as well as being extremely cautious about flair ups. I think I'm slowly learning to discern between "Push through this pain" and "stop before you hurt yourself again." It's just frustrating that my lower back is the limiting factor with all of my leg weight.


I would get a belt, honestly. Especially if you've already had some lower back problems. There's not really a strong reason not to play with a belt if you're already having problems. I mean you don't have to use it all the time, just when you start having problems. especially if it's a good size powerlifting one. Although that will be slightly worse for some movements. I mean the best way to do it probably for you would be to have two belts, like one for powerlifting movements and then one for more dynamic movements, that way you can give yourself proper back support and avoid aggravating a previously injured disk.



In other news I just finished my first week of nutrition and exercise as well. Even when I was hungry and wanted a snack, I resisted. Even when I felt like hell today I still hit the gym. It's good to feel like I'm getting into the swing of things here. Two rest days, and then I'm back in the saddle. Having my hormones approaching normal is DEFINITELY making a difference in everything. I'm actually hungry now, rather than eating because I'm supposed to be. I've got the energy to get that explosive power. The willpower is there to push through that ONE LAST REP while I'm shaking and tired. It's just great.

Also, for those looking for a protein powder or source, Forza Pro Chocolate Mint tastes the EXACT same as mint cookies and cream ice cream. I have to stop myself at two scoops post workout, it's SOOO good.

That is good to hear, definitely being able to eat and getting that sort of stuff sorted out is probably really important.

[Florian]

@Jorm:

Gaining weight in a healthy way can be more trouble than trying to lose weight. I've been "gifted" with a highly efficient metabolism that manages to convert nearly any kind of food and not build up fat as a body mass, which is simply necessary to convert into muscle with exercise. So, yeah, at your age, I was nearly 2 meters tall and skinny as a whip.

Body weight training, like the previously mentioned Convict Conditioning, is a good start. Keep in mind that there's a rough 3 to 1 ratio when converting mass into muscle, so take this into account with your diet, else there is nothing to "burn" and convert.

Being vegan is actually not that much of a hindrance, you're "just" as often as not eating "too healthy" for your own good in this case. You want raw sources of protein and fat to provide your body with something to actually work with and that can be done with Tofu, Nuts (Cashew stand out here) and fruit like Avocado that have a high amount of natural fats. Funny thing, but unfiltered beer, especially the ones heavily based on malt and yeast, can have a high nutritional value.

Attila Hildmann did great work covering the topic of vegan lifestyle and the effects on the body and training development, the books Vegan for Fit and Vegan for Youth should be available in english (to my knowledge), and you should have no problems getting your hands on Convict Conditioning and The Naked Warrior.

Point is: It is frustratingly hard to pull thru under these starting conditions. I'm now twice your age and I'm at it for a while now, surprising people when talking about weight as 200pt in muscle look and feel different than in fat, while still having not found out the limits of abuse my body is able to handle.

Edit: To put emphasis on this - no, it is no fun and hard work going up against your basic body type.

[drakir_nosslin]

On the topic of push-ups: Someone linked a video about proper form earlier. The guy stressed the importance of keeping the arms close to the body. I had understood previously that close or wide are not a matter of proper form but about which muscles you want to target. Can someone shed some more light on this?

You can typically generate more force with your arms close to your body, which is one of the reasons. The further out from your body you position your hands the more difficult it becomes to keep your elbows directly stacked above your wrists as you descend (this is something which wasn't discussed in the video, but is critical if you want to build to more advanced pushups such as plance etc.), as you need more shoulder mobility and strength to do so.

The wider hand position also reduces the distance you'll move your body, reducing the amount of work done, drecreasing the ganiz.

There is some benefit in wider hand positioning if you're looking to target different muscle groups, but IMO that's a waste of time. Learn to do a proper pushup instead, with good form (including proper plank/hollow position which I didn't see in the video), and increase the difficulty over time and you'll build a very strong upper body if it is coupled with some pulling motion (e.g rope climbs).

For pushing variation instead look at the dip, it puts larger reqs on mobility and engages different muscle groups.

[Florian]

On the topic of push-ups: Someone linked a video about proper form earlier. The guy stressed the importance of keeping the arms close to the body. I had understood previously that close or wide are not a matter of proper form but about which muscles you want to target. Can someone shed some more light on this?

Basically, that´s about your joints. They will degrade and you will have to build up certain muscle groups to counteract this.Video like his shows methods of training that don´t overly stress your joints by trying to be as natural to your body as possible.

[AMFV]

You can typically generate more force with your arms close to your body, which is one of the reasons. The further out from your body you position your hands the more difficult it becomes to keep your elbows directly stacked above your wrists as you descend (this is something which wasn't discussed in the video, but is critical if you want to build to more advanced pushups such as plance etc.), as you need more shoulder mobility and strength to do so.

Well that is true, supposing that your goal is to get to more advanced types of pushups, if your goal is to do more pushups, then a wider stance is generally slightly better. And again proper form REALLY depends on your actual physical construction. If you have a really big chest and very large biceps, close to your body may prove to be impossible or extremely uncomfortable. Especially if you have to go down to a specific height. So again how one performs a motion depends more on your goals and your build than any set of rules.



The wider hand position also reduces the distance you'll move your body, reducing the amount of work done, drecreasing the ganiz.

Not necessarily the amount of reduction in work done isn't going to significantly affect your gains, and if you're just doing pushups you aren't really going to have great gains.



There is some benefit in wider hand positioning if you're looking to target different muscle groups, but IMO that's a waste of time. Learn to do a proper pushup instead, with good form (including proper plank/hollow position which I didn't see in the video), and increase the difficulty over time and you'll build a very strong upper body if it is coupled with some pulling motion (e.g rope climbs).

It depends again on what your training objectives are, if that's a waste of time. Again, for doing as many pushups in as short time as possible, spreading your arms a little can help a lot, and this is coming from somebody who has won basewide pushup contests in the military. There are times when you want to do things differently for a variety of reasons. And understanding those is important if you want to be serious about exercising.



For pushing variation instead look at the dip, it puts larger reqs on mobility and engages different muscle groups.

Eh, dips should engage exactly the same muscle groups as pushups, it's the whole chest/triceps/shoulders deal. I mean you can alter which ones are the primary movers a little more, but it's the same set being worked.


Basically, that´s about your joints. They will degrade and you will have to build up certain muscle groups to counteract this.Video like his shows methods of training that don´t overly stress your joints by trying to be as natural to your body as possible.

Wide placement pushups aren't really going to strain your joints that much though. It's not a lot of weight and your shoulder joints (barring prior injury) can definitely handle that kind of thing with very little problems.I mean a 130 lb person is probably only pressing 50-70 lbs during the course of a pushup. That's not really enough injure yourself, at least not seriously, unless you do a lot of them.

Also everybody is built different. Again, all human beings have slight differences in build. So for some people arms close might be "natural" but not for everybody. Length of levers, all kinds of things helps you figure what natural is. General rule for exercises is that you should set up and perform the motion in a way that is comfortable for you. Like if arms wide is comfortable and arms close is not, you should do arms wide unless there is a specific training reason to do things the other way.

[Vinyadan]

For me, the big reveal was doing push-ups on wood flooring, instead of carpeting. Suddenly I had a frame of reference for the distances at which I was putting my hands, and whether the line between them was perpendicular to my spine. As it turned out, I had been keeping my right hand much closer to the body than the left, I had been oscillating towards the right when exercising, and the line between my hands wasn't perpendicular to my body, which was why my shoulder made weird noises.

[drakir_nosslin]

Well that is true, supposing that your goal is to get to more advanced types of pushups, if your goal is to do more pushups, then a wider stance is generally slightly better. And again proper form REALLY depends on your actual physical construction. If you have a really big chest and very large biceps, close to your body may prove to be impossible or extremely uncomfortable. Especially if you have to go down to a specific height. So again how one performs a motion depends more on your goals and your build than any set of rules.

Well, my view of the pushup is that it's the foundation for the pushing motion and leads into more advanced body weight exercises while building strength and mobility. If you enjoy competing in number of reps for pushups, sure, but that's not what my advice are for, if they were, I'd give different advice. When discussing the benefits of different approaches to an exercise we should have the same goal in mind, just as when one discusses anything within fitness.

Proper form does to some extent depend on your body, true, but in most cases the argument 'I can't because I'm too big' merely means 'I can't because I don't have the mobility'. The amount of muscle you need before 'too big' becomes a serious argument against shoulder-wide pushups is a lot. Look at elite gymnasts as an example.

I believe that building strength should always be done together with increasing the mobility, otherwise we end up with a body which operates at a sub-optimal capacity.



Not necessarily the amount of reduction in work done isn't going to significantly affect your gains, and if you're just doing pushups you aren't really going to have great gains.

If we limit the movement, the body will adapt to that limitation, shortening the muscles and training the nervous system to stop us from operating in positions which are completely possible, and for a person with full mobility, normal. When I talk about 'gainz', it's not only strength, and you do not train only strength when you do a movement properly.

If you think that pushups will not give you 'great gains' I'd say that you've been doing pushups wrong, if we're talking body-weight exercise and becoming great at those.



It depends again on what your training objectives are, if that's a waste of time. Again, for doing as many pushups in as short time as possible, spreading your arms a little can help a lot, and this is coming from somebody who has won basewide pushup contests in the military. There are times when you want to do things differently for a variety of reasons. And understanding those is important if you want to be serious about exercising.

Yea, as I said above, I don't do pushups for competition and I don't teach pushups with competing in mind. I would agree that there are situations where a wider stance is beneficial.


Eh, dips should engage exactly the same muscle groups as pushups, it's the whole chest/triceps/shoulders deal. I mean you can alter which ones are the primary movers a little more, but it's the same set being worked.

Sure, but dips and pushups lead in quite different directions once you start getting into the more advanced versions. Pushups transition neatly into handstands, handstand pushups and planches, while dips lead into more advanced ring exercises.


Wide placement pushups aren't really going to strain your joints that much though. It's not a lot of weight and your shoulder joints (barring prior injury) can definitely handle that kind of thing with very little problems.I mean a 130 lb person is probably only pressing 50-70 lbs during the course of a pushup. That's not really enough injure yourself, at least not seriously, unless you do a lot of them.

Also everybody is built different. Again, all human beings have slight differences in build. So for some people arms close might be "natural" but not for everybody. Length of levers, all kinds of things helps you figure what natural is. General rule for exercises is that you should set up and perform the motion in a way that is comfortable for you. Like if arms wide is comfortable and arms close is not, you should do arms wide unless there is a specific training reason to do things the other way.

Teaching someone to have a bad shoulder position (which, in my experience, tends to be the reason why they find shoulder-wide pushups uncomfortable.) only increases the risk of a future injury once they try different exercises in the same area. Pushing should be done with the shoulder joint in a stable position, because one day we might find that we're not pushing, but bracing against something pushing us, which has a pretty high risk factor.

I try to teach with the mindset that the movement and it's variations will be used outside of the gym and from that perspective, widening the hand position and opening the shoulder joint is not beneficial.

With that said, there are lots of differing opinions and most people will probably not notice a difference if they have their hands shoulder-wide or wider when doing pushups.

[Florian]

Also everybody is built different. Again, all human beings have slight differences in build.

While true, when trading tips with complete strangers on the internet, it´s better to be safe then sorry.
You simply cannot know pre-existing damage or whether or not some of the conditions that are common in our society are there unless the person you talk to volunteers that information.

[AMFV]

Well, my view of the pushup is that it's the foundation for the pushing motion and leads into more advanced body weight exercises while building strength and mobility. If you enjoy competing in number of reps for pushups, sure, but that's not what my advice are for, if they were, I'd give different advice. When discussing the benefits of different approaches to an exercise we should have the same goal in mind, just as when one discusses anything within fitness.


Well that's why it's really important to state what the end-goal of your advice is, because I think that most people doing pushups are not working towards a planche. I mean outside of a very small group of calisthenics folks that's definitely the case. Like I've not been giving folks the same sort of advice as I would give somebody with my goals. Because frankly, some of my goals require that you give up things in terms of general fitness and stuff.

But most dudes who do pushups are just looking for a simple exercise that will make them stronger, and if you have your arms a little further out, you'll still get that. Probably 5-10% of them are looking to do as many pushups in a set as possible, and they'd be well advised to train both wide and narrow grips and variations as well. Probably 2-5% of them are wanting to move onto planches (or at least would seriously consider doing so outside of saying "dude wouldn't it be cool if?") and they'd be probably advised to limit their training to narrower pushups, even if that might make them not as good at doing pushups as the person that did a lot of different training variations.



Proper form does to some extent depend on your body, true, but in most cases the argument 'I can't because I'm too big' merely means 'I can't because I don't have the mobility'. The amount of muscle you need before 'too big' becomes a serious argument against shoulder-wide pushups is a lot. Look at elite gymnasts as an example.

Yes, lets look at Olypmic Gymnasts! In 2016, all of the Olympic male gymnasts (from the US) were roughly around my height 5'7", and only one of them was less than a hundred pounds less than my weight. And I'm not that high in body-fat (not crazy low), but the point is that there is a point when you do get too large to do certain kinds of movements as well. And that's just how it is. That's a sacrifice you make when you're deciding to get a certain size.



I believe that building strength should always be done together with increasing the mobility, otherwise we end up with a body which operates at a sub-optimal capacity.


Well that depends entirely on what you are optimizing for. If you're optimizing for moving the biggest weights possible you are going to have to sacrifice mobility some of the time. That's just how it is. Because optimal performance depends on what thing you are doing as your performance.



If we limit the movement, the body will adapt to that limitation, shortening the muscles and training the nervous system to stop us from operating in positions which are completely possible, and for a person with full mobility, normal. When I talk about 'gainz', it's not only strength, and you do not train only strength when you do a movement properly.

You CANNOT shorten your muscles by exercise. You can't change your insertions bud. I mean you can lose some mobility but gaining more muscle or altering your muscle isn't really the thing that steals your mobility, as much as it is not working on doing mobility.



If you think that pushups will not give you 'great gains' I'd say that you've been doing pushups wrong, if we're talking body-weight exercise and becoming great at those.

Well when 90% of people talk about "gains" they mean strength and size, more typically size. So that's probably something to keep in mind. And I've never seen somebody I would call sizable who got that way doing just pushups. I mean it's certainly possible, but I've never seen it.



Yea, as I said above, I don't do pushups for competition and I don't teach pushups with competing in mind. I would agree that there are situations where a wider stance is beneficial.


Well the thing that's most beneficial for somebody serious about doing pushups is to do a bunch of different variations and then accessory exercises. But for the average person, putting your arms slightly outside of your shoulders is just fine, not going to hurt anything.



Sure, but dips and pushups lead in quite different directions once you start getting into the more advanced versions. Pushups transition neatly into handstands, handstand pushups and planches, while dips lead into more advanced ring exercises.

I would say that handstands are almost completely divested from pushups, I mean that's all core stability and shoulder strength, and not shoulder strength in the same section of your shoulders that pushups primarily train. Pushups train primarily your front deltoid head, not the center one, which is the one most involved in handstands. I mean it'd help some, but you'd be better off doing wall stands and stuff to get handstands than regular pushups, basically as close as you can get to the actual motion. Dips can get you closer to ring work, but it really depends on how you're doing them and all kinds of things.



Teaching someone to have a bad shoulder position (which, in my experience, tends to be the reason why they find shoulder-wide pushups uncomfortable.) only increases the risk of a future injury once they try different exercises in the same area. Pushing should be done with the shoulder joint in a stable position, because one day we might find that we're not pushing, but bracing against something pushing us, which has a pretty high risk factor.

In that case, they should train both wide and narrow grip, because if I'm pinned, it's not like I'm going to be able to tell a falling object "hol' up, let me just adjust my arms", actually if I'm pinned, I'm dead, there is nothing at my work that I could lift off my body if it falls and pins me, generally speaking. And I'm a guy who can bench a considerable amount.



I try to teach with the mindset that the movement and it's variations will be used outside of the gym and from that perspective, widening the hand position and opening the shoulder joint is not beneficial.

That's not really true though, because again, outside of the gym you may not get a choice about your hand placement and so you need to know how to function at a variety of different hand placements. Dude, I'm a strongman, I would bet you 100 dollars that I have more experience moving odd-shaped **** closer to the real world than most people, and I'm a heavy highway carpenter, the best thing for real world training is not to obsess over form, cause real world you won't get a ****ing choice, the object will be where it is, you are where you are, and you have to be able to stabilize all that crap.



With that said, there are lots of differing opinions and most people will probably not notice a difference if they have their hands shoulder-wide or wider when doing pushups.

Again, it depends entirely on what your goals are.


While true, when trading tips with complete strangers on the internet, it´s better to be safe then sorry.
You simply cannot know pre-existing damage or whether or not some of the conditions that are common in our society are there unless the person you talk to volunteers that information.

That's why you have to bookend your advice with talking about what certain things might work towards or what certain concerns might be, that's why I always say why I would give certain advice, because you don't know that person or really what their specific goals are.

[drakir_nosslin]

Ok. You go ahead and teach people what you think is right, and I'll do the same. :smallsmile:

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Hey guys, first time posting in this particular thread. Personal stuff below.

I've been overweight from the at least the age of...ten? Based on family testimony and old pictures, I used to be a skinny hyperactive kid that ran around and kept bumping my head into things, but at some point there was a switch and I just got fat. And it's just gotten worse as time passed. I was forced to go to a specialist store "big people ok!" because at a normal clothes store I'd just skip to the biggest size they had and flip a coin as to whether or not that would fit.

I'm not 100% comfortable sharing exact numbers (sorry), but I am fat. Vehicles lower when I get in. I've broken chairs that were fine until I sat on them. I've lived with ankle and foot problems that I'm ashamed to admit I have. I also get out of breath easily. A girl 1/3 my weight beat me at arm wrestling. I can hurt myself trying to scratch my back. Whatever I think about fat acceptance as a concept, I know I am in bad shape. And I'm not getting any younger so when my dad bought a treadmill (supposedly for everyone, but pretty obvious who in the house needs it most) I decided to get on it.

So my current issue is, a kind of tension in my lower back when I do my treadmill walk. So far there's no long term effect, it goes away when I stop, but I have concerns for the future. Our treadmill has horizontal hand grips (the kind with pulse-measuring metal plates) and I often put my hands there. Could that be an issue? I have to let go of the grips if I want to have a straight back, though there are side rail-like things I can balance myself on. Or should I just be swinging my arms organically.

[Florian]

@HP:

The human body type can only handle a certain amount of stress caused by weight until the wear and tear will start to have a permanent effect. In addition, we try to make ourselves "comfortable", which comes down to avoiding work and exercise of any kind as unnecessary and unpleasant.

Basically, when you're overweight, your body has to build up certain muscle groups to compensate the stress on joints, ligaments and so on to compensate that, before being able to develop any "strength". So if you weight, say, 300 pounds, then you must first train up the ability to handle that before you can lift a bottle of beer and don´t feel exhausted by doing so.

Roughly put, it is a good sign when you feel "tension" while doing an exercise. In most cases, it means your body goes to work adapting to a situation and that is rarely a pleasant feeling but more often than not a sign of (necessary) improvement.

[Sivarias]

So I'm keeping a running weekly average of my weight. (I weigh myself every day and take and average on Sunday.) For the last 10 or so days I've been fluctuating around the same weight by half a pound, sometimes up to a pound.

Because my previous weight-loss experience was so lightning fast (I was NEVER hungry due to hormone imbalance). Is it normal to stall at a certain weight this long? I'm used to dropping close to 5 pounds in the first week, so seeing myself lose MAYBE pound and then stay the same is disconcerting to say the least. My wife says I'm definately shrinking around the middle, and I am getting bigger in all the right places, but I'm not sure. If this keeps up I might just take another InBody next week even though I usually only do those monthly. I dunno, I'm confused.

[Florian]

@Sivarias:

Imagine it like this: You have to "hurt" a muscle group to cause it to grow and develop, provided it has enough body mass to convert for doing so. Once you've reached a certain performance level, no further development takes place and your body just sustains itself at that level, broadly meaning that once you have trained yourself up to go with the dog for 10 miles and afterwards go jogging for 2 miles, there will be no further gains by repeating those.

[Glass Mouse]

Okay, I'm throwing in my hat.

I'm starting small. Mostly I'm terribly out of shape and energy-deprived and have been putting on weight for the past year. So if I don't want to replace all my jeans (again), I have to do something.

In December, I decided to bike to work at least twice every week. In between, four weeks were lost to vacations and Christmas, but I have actually managed to stick to it on weeks where I was working. It's roughly 11 km per day, so nothing majorly ambitious, but doable beats ambitious right now, and it's better than anything I've done in the past year and a half (go me!).

I want to keep it up throughout February. On March 1st, I'll evaluate and decide whether to upgrade the minimum, but so far I just want to stick to it 100% through a month at least.

Biking is good for my general well-being and for getting into some semblance of shape, but I also need to do something serious about my weight. So since the bike thing is actually going well, I'll add one, actually ambitious thing: No sweets at all throughout February. I usually just try to cut down and never succeed, so I wanna experiment with going cold turkey for a temporary period of time.

I'm mostly posting here so I'll have the public shame element in March if I fail either of those. Good luck to everyone else!

[Florian]

@Mouse:

"No sweets" might not be the best strategy, sugar being a prime power source. Rather, try to be more conscious on your intake and adopt a "reward strategy" and thereby avoid your "public shaming" come march.Try to avoid the cheap stuff, like Coke, Oreos and that heavily sugared coffee over at Starbucks, but rather grab some of the more expensive belgian pralines and enjoy the taste.

[Tvtyrant]

Okay, I'm throwing in my hat.

I'm starting small. Mostly I'm terribly out of shape and energy-deprived and have been putting on weight for the past year. So if I don't want to replace all my jeans (again), I have to do something.

In December, I decided to bike to work at least twice every week. In between, four weeks were lost to vacations and Christmas, but I have actually managed to stick to it on weeks where I was working. It's roughly 11 km per day, so nothing majorly ambitious, but doable beats ambitious right now, and it's better than anything I've done in the past year and a half (go me!).

I want to keep it up throughout February. On March 1st, I'll evaluate and decide whether to upgrade the minimum, but so far I just want to stick to it 100% through a month at least.

Biking is good for my general well-being and for getting into some semblance of shape, but I also need to do something serious about my weight. So since the bike thing is actually going well, I'll add one, actually ambitious thing: No sweets at all throughout February. I usually just try to cut down and never succeed, so I wanna experiment with going cold turkey for a temporary period of time.

I'm mostly posting here so I'll have the public shame element in March if I fail either of those. Good luck to everyone else!

I approve of the cutting out sweets, especially if you have tried limiting them to little success. Pretty much my entire philosophy on weightloss has been "cut out compulsive behaviors" and it has been very effective.

You may want to look up your TDEE (Total Daily Energy Expenditure), it will help prevent your body from making you eat the calories you are losing.

Decent site here (http://www.sailrabbit.com/bmr/): http://www.sailrabbit.com/bmr/

For instance, my TDEE is 4,544. That is for "Moderately active," walking 10 miles a day, 3 trips to the gym a week and a moderate hike on Saturdays (8-10 miles, 1,000-2,000 ft elevation change).

December I lost 10lbs by eating 2800 calories a day, January I didn't lower my calories and lost 5lbs and now I need to go down to 2600 a day (three pieces of bacon difference).

[Ancient]

"Sweets", can be pretty ambiguous, and your body/mind is pretty good at tricking you into getting them from one source if you restrict another. To truly cut out sugars, you have to give up the obvious culprits, (candies, cakes, sodas (diet too, even without calories it produces an insulin response), but also fruits (fructose), and dairy (lactose), and the high amount of sugars in pastas and starchy vegetables. It can be a rough hall and expect some feelings of unwellness for a day or two (headaches, cravings).

[AMFV]

Hey guys, first time posting in this particular thread. Personal stuff below.

So my current issue is, a kind of tension in my lower back when I do my treadmill walk. So far there's no long term effect, it goes away when I stop, but I have concerns for the future. Our treadmill has horizontal hand grips (the kind with pulse-measuring metal plates) and I often put my hands there. Could that be an issue? I have to let go of the grips if I want to have a straight back, though there are side rail-like things I can balance myself on. Or should I just be swinging my arms organically.

As some people have pointed out, some soreness and tension is normal. I wouldn't stress too much over it if you haven't had any functional problems because of it and if it goes away. What I would suggest trying is doing a regular walk at the same intensity as your treadmill experience, if you don't get the soreness doing that (or try a different cardio method for the same intensity and time), then you know that something with treadmills isn't working for you. Lower back tension from walking is probably not productive, I mean it's not necessarily bad but it isn't "good pain" so I wouldn't try to seek it out if you can find an exercise methodology that can maintain the same intensity without it you're probably well enough off.


So I'm keeping a running weekly average of my weight. (I weigh myself every day and take and average on Sunday.) For the last 10 or so days I've been fluctuating around the same weight by half a pound, sometimes up to a pound.

Because my previous weight-loss experience was so lightning fast (I was NEVER hungry due to hormone imbalance). Is it normal to stall at a certain weight this long? I'm used to dropping close to 5 pounds in the first week, so seeing myself lose MAYBE pound and then stay the same is disconcerting to say the least. My wife says I'm definately shrinking around the middle, and I am getting bigger in all the right places, but I'm not sure. If this keeps up I might just take another InBody next week even though I usually only do those monthly. I dunno, I'm confused.

Cut your calories by 500, for one week, see how that treats you. On a cut you're going to have to continue to reduce calories and 4500 is really high for cutting, so I'd cut down at least 500 and see if you start losing again, if you don't cut another 5, and then keep doing that until you either start seeing response or you're clearly able to identify it as a different issue. Also you could increase the volume of work you're doing and the volume of cardio.


I approve of the cutting out sweets, especially if you have tried limiting them to little success. Pretty much my entire philosophy on weightloss has been "cut out compulsive behaviors" and it has been very effective.

You may want to look up your TDEE (Total Daily Energy Expenditure), it will help prevent your body from making you eat the calories you are losing.

Decent site here (http://www.sailrabbit.com/bmr/): http://www.sailrabbit.com/bmr/

For instance, my TDEE is 4,544. That is for "Moderately active," walking 10 miles a day, 3 trips to the gym a week and a moderate hike on Saturdays (8-10 miles, 1,000-2,000 ft elevation change).

December I lost 10lbs by eating 2800 calories a day, January I didn't lower my calories and lost 5lbs and now I need to go down to 2600 a day (three pieces of bacon difference).

One thing you have to remember with TDEE calculations is they tend to grossly overestimate your physical activity level. I've found the best results come from stating that I do no physical activity, and then adjusting as needed based on how the scale responds. Since that's a much more accurate way of figuring out your actual TDEE than it's guess at your activity level.

As far as the "cutting out sweets" I think people are using that to refer to removing junk carbs, rather than just a straight reduction in sugars. Like I'm not going to eat those extra pastries with breakfast, instead of, I'm going to weigh out all my sugars and get rid of fruits and certain veggies and dairy because of the sugar potential in them, which is a much more extreme process than just reducing sugary carbs.

[Tvtyrant]

One thing you have to remember with TDEE calculations is they tend to grossly overestimate your physical activity level. I've found the best results come from stating that I do no physical activity, and then adjusting as needed based on how the scale responds. Since that's a much more accurate way of figuring out your actual TDEE than it's guess at your activity level.

As far as the "cutting out sweets" I think people are using that to refer to removing junk carbs, rather than just a straight reduction in sugars. Like I'm not going to eat those extra pastries with breakfast, instead of, I'm going to weigh out all my sugars and get rid of fruits and certain veggies and dairy because of the sugar potential in them, which is a much more extreme process than just reducing sugary carbs.

I hear that a lot, but it has been pretty accurate for me. I put in 10lbs a month and I lose 10lbs a month, my mistake was not dropping more calories when I lost weight. It also helps give people a baseline, as I had no idea how much I was actually eating when I started.

True. I don't think you need to cut all carbs and sugars to get rid of the compulsive need for them, but you certainly need to make sure you don't replace muffins and poptarts with a bucket of strawberries (I did that before I went on Keto, was eating berries and bananas with every meal).

[Sivarias]

I approve of the cutting out sweets, especially if you have tried limiting them to little success. Pretty much my entire philosophy on weightloss has been "cut out compulsive behaviors" and it has been very effective.


This! So much this!



One thing you have to remember with TDEE calculations is they tend to grossly overestimate your physical activity level. I've found the best results come from stating that I do no physical activity, and then adjusting as needed based on how the scale responds. Since that's a much more accurate way of figuring out your actual TDEE than it's guess at your activity level.

As far as the "cutting out sweets" I think people are using that to refer to removing junk carbs, rather than just a straight reduction in sugars. Like I'm not going to eat those extra pastries with breakfast, instead of, I'm going to weigh out all my sugars and get rid of fruits and certain veggies and dairy because of the sugar potential in them, which is a much more extreme process than just reducing sugary carbs.

And as always AMFV states more or less what I'm thinking and from a more informed and better position than me.



Cut your calories by 500, for one week, see how that treats you. On a cut you're going to have to continue to reduce calories and 4500 is really high for cutting, so I'd cut down at least 500 and see if you start losing again, if you don't cut another 5, and then keep doing that until you either start seeing response or you're clearly able to identify it as a different issue. Also you could increase the volume of work you're doing and the volume of cardio.

Um, I'm only doing 1850 calories a day right now, so cutting a further 500 calories a day will literally make it impossible for me to get the 200g of protein and 150g or so of carbs I need. Do you maybe have me mixed up with TVTyrant? The last TDEE I took put me at 3500 calories at a baseline of no activity, and that's what I've been basing my cut at.

[AMFV]

I hear that a lot, but it has been pretty accurate for me. I put in 10lbs a month and I lose 10lbs a month, my mistake was not dropping more calories when I lost weight. It also helps give people a baseline, as I had no idea how much I was actually eating when I started.

Well, it can help, also in the case of somebody that's more overweight, you'll lose easier and so finicky stuff with caloric counts isn't really the best bet. Like in the case of somebody who is relatively low body fat and still trying to cut it's a lot more important to be accurate and not be a little off.



True. I don't think you need to cut all carbs and sugars to get rid of the compulsive need for them, but you certainly need to make sure you don't replace muffins and poptarts with a bucket of strawberries (I did that before I went on Keto, was eating berries and bananas with every meal).




Um, I'm only doing 1850 calories a day right now, so cutting a further 500 calories a day will literally make it impossible for me to get the 200g of protein and 150g or so of carbs I need. Do you maybe have me mixed up with TVTyrant? The last TDEE I took put me at 3500 calories at a baseline of no activity, and that's what I've been basing my cut at.

That is exactly what happened, sorry there's a bunch of numbers floating around here and I'd been reading things on my phone, which is screen damaged so I got the numbers mixed up.

I would probably cut 250, only from carbs, and increase your activity level in terms of cardiovascular stuff. I mean 1500 is probably about the lowest I would want to go in terms of caloric intake unless it's extremely short term. So I'd aim for that sort of goal. As far as being stalled, you can either cut calories or increase activity, or accept that you're just in a slower gain/lose spot.

Sometimes what can be really good is a short bulkup period, a couple weeks maybe, with a very high volume of work. Then that can help jumpstart things again, since you're going to be adjusted to working more and eating more and that will help if you're stalled, and it can help mentally if you're stalled.

Also as things get tougher it might be time to evaluate where you want your body fat to sit at. Unless you're aiming to do comps, then you don't necessarily need (or want trust me) that shredded 8% body fat. And so you might be wanting to start gaining again once you get to a reasonable amount. One of the key things to remember is that how good you look is largely a factor of body fat percentage, not total fat mass. So if you gain muscle, you can have higher fat mass and still look decent. Like if you have 20 lbs of fat at 150 lbs, you're in pretty good shape but if you have 20 lbs of fat at 220, you'll look much better and you won't have to have lost a single fat pound for that transition. So again stalling out is pretty bad, I would re-evaluate if you've tried corrective actions and nothing changes in the next week or two.

[Sivarias]

Also as things get tougher it might be time to evaluate where you want your body fat to sit at. Unless you're aiming to do comps, then you don't necessarily need (or want trust me) that shredded 8% body fat. And so you might be wanting to start gaining again once you get to a reasonable amount. One of the key things to remember is that how good you look is largely a factor of body fat percentage, not total fat mass. So if you gain muscle, you can have higher fat mass and still look decent. Like if you have 20 lbs of fat at 150 lbs, you're in pretty good shape but if you have 20 lbs of fat at 220, you'll look much better and you won't have to have lost a single fat pound for that transition. So again stalling out is pretty bad, I would re-evaluate if you've tried corrective actions and nothing changes in the next week or two.

My end point doesn't have a specific poundage in mind. Right now I'm at 36.3% BF according to my last in body. I want that down to about 15% or so. I want to get an adonis belt at least once to say I did it and to see what it would look like on me. We'll see how hard it was to get before I determine whether or not I maintain it.

Lifting Goals, I wanna Bench 1.5x, squat 2.25x, and dead-lift 2.5x my body-weight.
(Those are old numbers I read a while back for baseline for "fit" men. They seem reasonable so in lieu of anything else that's what I'm sticking with as far as lifting goals.)

I suspect when I'm done cutting fat and bulking up I'll be floating around 200lbs or so just from eyeballing the rest of my family. Right now I just need to get below 20% BF as fast as possible for hormone reasons. Once I'm sub 20%, that's when I'll start doing a more classic bulk/cut cycle. Until then everything is just cut, cut, cut.

[Tvtyrant]

My end point doesn't have a specific poundage in mind. Right now I'm at 36.3% BF according to my last in body. I want that down to about 15% or so. I want to get an adonis belt at least once to say I did it and to see what it would look like on me. We'll see how hard it was to get before I determine whether or not I maintain it.

Lifting Goals, I wanna Bench 1.5x, squat 2.25x, and dead-lift 2.5x my body-weight.
(Those are old numbers I read a while back for baseline for "fit" men. They seem reasonable so in lieu of anything else that's what I'm sticking with as far as lifting goals.)

I suspect when I'm done cutting fat and bulking up I'll be floating around 200lbs or so just from eyeballing the rest of my family. Right now I just need to get below 20% BF as fast as possible for hormone reasons. Once I'm sub 20%, that's when I'll start doing a more classic bulk/cut cycle. Until then everything is just cut, cut, cut.

I admire your goals! I'm satisfied with getting lean mass up to 200lbs and bodyfat under 50.

[Glass Mouse]

@Mouse:

"No sweets" might not be the best strategy, sugar being a prime power source. Rather, try to be more conscious on your intake and adopt a "reward strategy" and thereby avoid your "public shaming" come march.Try to avoid the cheap stuff, like Coke, Oreos and that heavily sugared coffee over at Starbucks, but rather grab some of the more expensive belgian pralines and enjoy the taste.

Oh no, not for me. That's been my strategy the last five times I've tried cutting down junk sweets, and I've failed spectacularly each time. I guess it would work for someone who doesn't eat sweets compulsively, but, uh.

This may be getting too into psychology and behavioural theory, but I've been reading a lot of Kahneman (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11468377-thinking-fast-and-slow) lately. He pioneered the idea of two cognitive systems:

System 1 is the intuitive, fast, lazy ways of decision making, such as determining your friend's mood from the way they say "hi" on the phone, or a firefighter realizing that a house is about to crumble without even knowing why he knows. We use this for the vast majority of our decisions, its internal workings are subconscious, and it is highly optimized for efficiency.
System 2 is the analytical, logical process, used to solve complicated tasks. System 2 is more meticulous and reliable but also uses up a lot of resources, and gets tired over time. We have to actively engage with this type of decision making, and it is optimized for correctness of conclusions.

System 1 is prone to jumping to conclusions and to substituting questions, like answering "which political candidate would be better for X political issue?" with "which candidate do I like better?". Or, relevant here, substituting "Is it a worthwhile decision for me to eat this piece of cake right now?" with "Do I want cake right now?". Like I said, this process happens subconsciously, and it takes energy for System 2 to activate and catch the error.

AFAIK, Kahneman doesn't touch on dieting, but I just realized that making complicated rules (like "only 'good' sweets and only when I truly desire the taste") is basically an outsourcing of my sweets habit to System 2. Which is bound to fail when I'm tired or hungry or it's late in the day.

Basically, the way to not fall in the System 1 trap regarding habit changes is to make the change as easy as possible. So I'm trying to achieve that by making "should I have cake?" into as easy a question as possible, the answer always being "no". No System 2 needed. No way for System 1 to cheat me with question substitutions.

Come to think of it, I should probably simplify the biking even more. New rule is: "If I haven't biked twice yet, and there's no actual traffic-related reason not to, I have to bike now." Which incidentally means I have to bike today :smalltongue:


I approve of the cutting out sweets, especially if you have tried limiting them to little success. Pretty much my entire philosophy on weightloss has been "cut out compulsive behaviors" and it has been very effective.

You may want to look up your TDEE (Total Daily Energy Expenditure), it will help prevent your body from making you eat the calories you are losing.

Thanks for the link, but I have to be honest: Calorie Counting gives me the heebie-jeebies. I can definitely see why it would work - there is a gamification element and it's an easy way to keep in control, and I know people who use it to great effect. It's just... I don't even know what. I just know my mental health has taken a nosedive every time I've gotten in the habit of considering health for every meal.

It could be an interesting experiment to go all in some day, though: buy a fitbit, use a fitness app, and outsource my eating decisions to technology for a period. It jibes pretty well with the simplicity principle.


As far as the "cutting out sweets" I think people are using that to refer to removing junk carbs, rather than just a straight reduction in sugars. Like I'm not going to eat those extra pastries with breakfast, instead of, I'm going to weigh out all my sugars and get rid of fruits and certain veggies and dairy because of the sugar potential in them, which is a much more extreme process than just reducing sugary carbs.

Yup. That's what I meant, at least. My big culprits are not carbs, per se, but the easy sugars like chocolate, soda and cake.

[Douglas]

Basically, the way to not fall in the System 1 trap regarding habit changes is to make the change as easy as possible. So I'm trying to achieve that by making "should I have cake?" into as easy a question as possible, the answer always being "no". No System 2 needed. No way for System 1 to cheat me with question substitutions.
I had some success a while back with a rule of a fixed specific amount of one fixed specific treat as dessert at lunch and dinner, and nothing at any other time. It's still very simple, and equally objective. You really have to stick to it, though, no making an exception "just this once".

Then I thought about the numbers a bit more and decided I really should cut it out entirely.

[caden_varn]

Re. cycling into work - about a decade ago I started to do this, and I set 2 targets. One, to cycle at least once a week, and over the entire year, to cycle at least 40% (which I tracked on a simple spreadsheet. This had the advantage of having the second target to motivate me when the first failed on the second week due to heavy snow (well, heavy for the south of england, so about 3 whole inches!). It's really easy to miss a week due to illness or bike malfunction, so I needed something to focus on after that so I did not give up.
After a few years I got to cycling to work 100% (OK, with a few days working from home, but I find that really tedious & avoid if possible).

Obviously, this will work for going to the gym etc. as well as cycling.

[Sivarias]

I have good news and bad news. The good news is the scale finally changed today, and going back exactly a week I did lose about 4lbs. Which is much more of what I was expecting. So YAY!

The bad news is I was dumb, and I wanted to hurry up and bench a heavier weight today and I didn't warm up properly in my haste. I strained something in my shoulder. While I finished my set, because my shoulder was in pain I couldn't increase the weight on the hypertrophy party of my routine.

I'm still young And judging from the pain I should be ok by next week. Just means I have to take it easy on Thursday.

Oh well, lesson learned.


I admire your goals! I'm satisfied with getting lean mass up to 200lbs and bodyfat under 50.

The the reason for sub 20% is because at higher numbers than that the male body starts converting testosterone to estrogen in large amounts.

[AMFV]

My end point doesn't have a specific poundage in mind. Right now I'm at 36.3% BF according to my last in body. I want that down to about 15% or so. I want to get an adonis belt at least once to say I did it and to see what it would look like on me. We'll see how hard it was to get before I determine whether or not I maintain it.


Yeah, if you're at 36.3% BF you should still be losing in a fairly smooth curve. Like for me when I started to have problems with consistent loss was usually at 16 percent and lower. What I might try doing is a non-scale focused training for a little bit, like a month. Like focus on improving your strength, cause if you can handle more weight fro more volume you'll be able to have a much better response from your workouts.

So I'd do like a period focused on improving a few lifts or on getting stronger, or maybe on bulking up just a tiny bit, to gain more muscle (although at 36.3 percent, bulking up is probably not what most people would recommend, but if you're stalling...)



Lifting Goals, I wanna Bench 1.5x, squat 2.25x, and dead-lift 2.5x my body-weight.
(Those are old numbers I read a while back for baseline for "fit" men. They seem reasonable so in lieu of anything else that's what I'm sticking with as far as lifting goals.)


Those are (I believe) numbers from Mark Rippletoe, they're good for a general guideline I think, but I wouldn't use them as gospel or anything. It's also worth noting that those numbers start to get further and further out of whack the heavier and bigger you are. Like take a 150 lb man, if they can pull 375, that's reasonable, not world class, but very reasonable. Let's go way up (just for purposes of demonstration) and say like a 400 lb person (like worlds strongest man weight), they'd have to be pulling 1000 lbs to be considered "fit" but in real life if they were pulling 1000 lbs, they'd be among the best deadlifters in the world. So as the weight goes up those numbers go down.

At your suggested end-weight, that would come out to a 300 lb bench (definitely doable), a 450 squat, and a 500 lb pull. None of those are world class numbers, but they're all pretty reasonable. Depending on your personal biomechanics and what-not (I've always been better comparatively at squatting than either deadlifting or bench). Although I would qualify as "fit" by most of Mark's baselines up there.

I also don't like Rippletoe, because he's given people a lot of advice without having trained a single world class powerlifter or strongman or having been one himself, which is something to watch for.



I suspect when I'm done cutting fat and bulking up I'll be floating around 200lbs or so just from eyeballing the rest of my family. Right now I just need to get below 20% BF as fast as possible for hormone reasons. Once I'm sub 20%, that's when I'll start doing a more classic bulk/cut cycle. Until then everything is just cut, cut, cut.

Well I think that's a good plan, of course, it's important to remember that if you're starting to be spinning your wheels some adjustment is probably called for.


Re. cycling into work - about a decade ago I started to do this, and I set 2 targets. One, to cycle at least once a week, and over the entire year, to cycle at least 40% (which I tracked on a simple spreadsheet. This had the advantage of having the second target to motivate me when the first failed on the second week due to heavy snow (well, heavy for the south of england, so about 3 whole inches!). It's really easy to miss a week due to illness or bike malfunction, so I needed something to focus on after that so I did not give up.
After a few years I got to cycling to work 100% (OK, with a few days working from home, but I find that really tedious & avoid if possible).

Obviously, this will work for going to the gym etc. as well as cycling.

That's really awesome! I'll have to try something like that.


I have good news and bad news. The good news is the scale finally changed today, and going back exactly a week I did lose about 4lbs. Which is much more of what I was expecting. So YAY!

Congrats man! Are you weighing yourself at the same time of day with the same stuff going on?



The bad news is I was dumb, and I wanted to hurry up and bench a heavier weight today and I didn't warm up properly in my haste. I strained something in my shoulder. While I finished my set, because my shoulder was in pain I couldn't increase the weight on the hypertrophy party of my routine.

I'm still young And judging from the pain I should be ok by next week. Just means I have to take it easy on Thursday.

Oh well, lesson learned.


Shoulder issues on the bench are common. Generally when you start having those problems it's a really good idea to start incorporating some bench variations. Like incline and decline bench, and definitely dumbbell benching. Those are a lot of fun and they have the advantage of not being quite as ego driven. (Since much fewer peeps know what impressive numbers on an incline bench are).

That and definitely do your shoulder cradle exercises, especially for your rear delts, those are often the cause of a lot of benching trouble, and frankly benching trouble is why a lot of lifters don't do flat bench at all.




The the reason for sub 20% is because at higher numbers than that the male body starts converting testosterone to estrogen in large amounts.

I've heard that, but I've been over 20 before and not really seen a spike in my estrogen levels. I think there are too many factors there to be certain that that's the only culprit. Also it's really easy to have chicken or the egg questions. Do overweight men have higher estrogen because they are overweight or are they overweight because of higher estrogenic levels, type-thing.

[Tvtyrant]

Anyone else get shin splint feelings in their shins during squats? I used to get them in highschool, when I was squatting 400lbs+, started getting them again at a lower weight.

[AMFV]

Today is my second day (of three) this week doing relatively moderately heavy deadlifts, and it's definitely catching up to me, although since I've been conservative with the weights I can say that it's not as bad performance-wise as I was expecting. Eventually with my new crazy program I'll be peaking at four deadlift days in a week. Trying to fix that lagging deadlift after the injury. It's definitely getting stronger though.

Also I can say that the worst possible combination (to my surprise) is deadlift and then overhead push-presses. My personal trainer had me doing relatively heavy presses and that was definitely killer after I'd been doing those pulls. It does do good prepwork for the event days though since you're pretty much always pulling and pressing on the same day, which is absolute misery (although on event day you have a lot more adrenaline to keep it going).

The worst pain and stuff has been in my core, since the deadlifts aren't super heavy I've been doing them unbelted so my core is definitely feeling it, especially in my upper abdominal region and some in my lower back, from both exercises which require a lot of core stability.


Anyone else get shin splint feelings in their shins during squats? I used to get them in highschool, when I was squatting 400lbs+, started getting them again at a lower weight.

I have not, although research suggests that it may stem from knee placement. Often when you have a problem that creeps as the weight creeps up it's form related primarily. At least from what I've experienced. So assuming that the internet is correct and it's knee placement there are a few things that you should try:

1.) Make sure your hips are open. Do some warming up and stuff, to make sure that your hips are well open so get a really good hip hinge, definitely do some squats without any weight probably just the bar to get that feeling and pay particular attention to your hips, because fewer things in a squat affect your knees as much as your hip placement.

2.) Adjust your foot placement, try wider and narrower stance squats and see if that improves it. I would guess that wider stance would be the way to go, and I know that most big guys (myself included) tend to find it a lot more comfy to squat with a wider stance, it just feels more natural and feels like there's less pressure on your knees and other ligaments and what-not, which could be part of your problem.

3.) Adjust your bar placement. Try moving to a lower bar squat position, since that will force your upper torso forward, your hips and will therefore adjust the track your knees are moving on to less of a track directly over your feet. As an added benefit you'll get ten percent more out of your squat in terms of weight, and that's always cool.

4.) Change your shoes, make sure that you're squatting in appropriate shoes for it, since that really impacts your knee location. Flat soled shoes are the preferred option since the heel is going to force your track and your knees forward. I buy cheap skater shoes usually, another option is to squat barefoot (or in socks in a gym), so that way you can really feel your heel placement and where the weight is actually tracking and stuff. That's always a fun thing to try too, because it makes you that weird guy who squats in socks, and people will think you're super serious about it, especially if you're low bar squatting.

5.) Stretch more, try and improve your hip and leg flexibility so that you can better control your track and kind of have a better less likely to injure knee position.

Those are the things I would try in the order I would try them, or just try all of them. But that's what I would recommend provided of course that it is a knee track, but that seems to be the consensus view on the internet and it makes sense to me. I just can't find any trainer whose opinion I value saying the same. Although Mark Rippletoe does for whatever the hell that's worth.


Edit: And if you have the cash laying around I'd bump your shoes to number 1.

[Sivarias]

I've heard that, but I've been over 20 before and not really seen a spike in my estrogen levels. I think there are too many factors there to be certain that that's the only culprit. Also it's really easy to have chicken or the egg questions. Do overweight men have higher estrogen because they are overweight or are they overweight because of higher estrogenic levels, type-thing.

The estrogen gets used up storing and maintaining the fat IIRC. While your estrogen didn't spike, did your Test noticeable drop?

So I ran the numbers for protein intake, and realized that I'm eating 3lbs of straight protein a week more or less. Does anyone know what the protein mass to muscle mass conversion rate is? Or know where I can develop an approximation? I'm just curious at this point, wondering how "efficient" my body is with this. Obviously some of that goes to muscle repair and other system needs, but the question is how much?

I assume for bigger guys lifting heavier, more protein is needed to repair the more severe muscle damage done by a workout routine. This will obviously leave less for new musculature to form.

I dunno. I'm a numbers guy. Spreadsheets, percentages, and efficiencies are kind of my thing.

[Tvtyrant]

Today is my second day (of three) this week doing relatively moderately heavy deadlifts, and it's definitely catching up to me, although since I've been conservative with the weights I can say that it's not as bad performance-wise as I was expecting. Eventually with my new crazy program I'll be peaking at four deadlift days in a week. Trying to fix that lagging deadlift after the injury. It's definitely getting stronger though.

Also I can say that the worst possible combination (to my surprise) is deadlift and then overhead push-presses. My personal trainer had me doing relatively heavy presses and that was definitely killer after I'd been doing those pulls. It does do good prepwork for the event days though since you're pretty much always pulling and pressing on the same day, which is absolute misery (although on event day you have a lot more adrenaline to keep it going).

The worst pain and stuff has been in my core, since the deadlifts aren't super heavy I've been doing them unbelted so my core is definitely feeling it, especially in my upper abdominal region and some in my lower back, from both exercises which require a lot of core stability.


Edit: And if you have the cash laying around I'd bump your shoes to number 1.

That does sound tough! I can see the relationship there, the OHP requires you to stabilize your back and the Deadlifts rough up the stabilizers. Interestingly I think combining them means you reinvented the powerclean :P

Glad to hear your deadlift is improving. When you do your competition remember to post photos/videos.

Okay, new shoes it is and trying to fix my stance. You said you use flat shoes, are lifting shoes a meme then?

[AMFV]

The estrogen gets used up storing and maintaining the fat IIRC. While your estrogen didn't spike, did your Test noticeable drop?


Not really. I mean in the worst case you could try and take an AI and see if that works for that. I think that there's probably more to that, because those are complicated things, like the inherent complexity there makes it very hard to assess, and typically the studies that talk about that tend to be not all that great, or have small sample sizes. I can tell you that IPF tested powerlifters and WADA tested Oly lifters in the 300+ lb range probably (almost definitely) have more than 20% bodyfat, and they probably DO NOT have a lower test rating. So I think that other factors are probably significantly involved in that relationship.

Here is my take, people in sedentary jobs tend to have lower test, basically people who are not using their test for muscle development and working tend to wind up producing less of it. So I imagine that's where the actual relationship comes in. People who are obese tend not to be the ones who are using their musculature and physical stuff as much and so they would tend to have lower test levels. That's mostly just speculation though.



So I ran the numbers for protein intake, and realized that I'm eating 3lbs of straight protein a week more or less. Does anyone know what the protein mass to muscle mass conversion rate is? Or know where I can develop an approximation? I'm just curious at this point, wondering how "efficient" my body is with this. Obviously some of that goes to muscle repair and other system needs, but the question is how much?

I assume for bigger guys lifting heavier, more protein is needed to repair the more severe muscle damage done by a workout routine. This will obviously leave less for new musculature to form.

I dunno. I'm a numbers guy. Spreadsheets, percentages, and efficiencies are kind of my thing.

I think that there'd be a lot of noise you'd have to account for in order to get that to an accurate representation. Generally if you are getting the bodybuilder/powerlifter recommended amount of protein you are probably getting more than your body can actually use. Which is good, too much protein isn't usually a bad thing. So go for it, I guess! I mean unless you have preexisting kidney troubles.


That does sound tough! I can see the relationship there, the OHP requires you to stabilize your back and the Deadlifts rough up the stabilizers. Interestingly I think combining them means you reinvented the powerclean :P

Glad to hear your deadlift is improving. When you do your competition remember to post photos/videos.

Okay, new shoes it is and trying to fix my stance. You said you use flat shoes, are lifting shoes a meme then?

Lifting shoes will be the wrong kind actually for squatting in. Like Romaleos and stuff will be mostly for Oly lifts. So they'd help with your overhead, but not with your squats. Well, some people really like squatting in them, but I personally prefer barefoot or with really flat shoes. I mean you could get Romaleos and they're really good for Oly lifts and deadlifts (I deadlift barefoot also normally though), and they might work superb for your squats. They cost like 200 a pair though so that's like a choice you'd have to make.

As far as reinventing the power clean, I'd have to have combined them directly instead of just doing them on the same day. I'm missing about half of the power clean, since I did deadlifts and then push-presses, rather than deadlifts into push-presses.

[Corsair14]

Just jumping in with my current program. I am prepping for a PT test in April and trying to lose waist size, I need a couple inches to get =<39" not that I really care too much if I fail since I deploy right after, have a six month grace period when I get back and I expect to retire before that hehe so the least stressful PT test with bogus metrics I have taken.

So I am doing a Weighted HIIT workout which takes 7 weeks and I am on week 3. Ill spoiler tag it so it doesn't take up as much space.

On each exercise that is 10 sets of 10 you start with 60 seconds on week 1 and each week reduce the rest time by 10 seconds. Week 2 is 50 seconds, week 3 is 40... etc. So yes on the final week you are doing 100 reps with no break.

For obvious reasons do lighter weight than normal. 50-65% of your normal working weight.
In the early weeks when you still have high rest time, push to do them as fast as possible intermixed with slow negatives.

Day 1 Chest and back
bench press 10 sets of 10
Bench press 3 sets to fail with 60 seconds rest in between
Dumbbell incline press 3 sets to fail, 60 seconds rest
Cable Crossover 3 to Failure 60s
Wide-Grip Pulldown 10 of 10
Wide-Grip Pulldown 3 to fail 60 seconds
Barbell Bentover Row 3 to fail 60s
Straight-Arm Pulldown 3 to fail 60s
Reverse Crunch Body weight 10 sets of 10
Crunch Body weight 10 sets of 20 +
Super setted with 20 pushups do the countdown rest
Dead/Curl/Press Light dumbbells 10 of 10

Day 2 Legs and triceps
Squat 10 of 10
Squat 3 to fail 60s
Leg Press 3 sets to fail 60s
Leg Extension 3 sets to fail 60s
Leg Curl 3 sets to fail 60s
Triceps Pressdown 10 sets of 10
Triceps Pressdown 3 to Failure 60s
Lying Triceps Extension 3 to Failure 60s
Standing Calf Raise 10 sets of 40 for each leg with a 45lbs weight 30 seconds(don't drop until your weekly goes below 30)
Standing Calf Raise 3 to fail Fail 30s
Seated Calf Raise 3 sets to fail 60s
Kettleball Swing 10 of 10

Day 3 Arms and shoulders
Dumbbell Shoulder Press 10 of 10
Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3 to fail 60s
Dumbbell Lateral Raise 3 to fail 60s
Dumbbell Rear-Delt Raise 3 to fail 60s
Dumbbell Shrug 10 of 10
Dumbbell Shrug 3 sets to fail 60s
Dumbbell Curl 3 sets to fail 60s
Dumbbell Curl 3 sets to fail 60s
Incline Dumbbell Curl 3 sets to fail
Barbell Wrist Curl 10 of 10
Barbell Wrist Curl 3 to fail 60s
Dumbbell Clean 10 of 10

Days 4 5 and 6 simply starts over but the 3 to fail exercises are switched out
Day 4
Reverse-Grip Incline Bench Press 3 to fail 60s
Incline Dumbbell Flye 3 to fail 60s

One-arm Dumbbell Bentover Row 3 to fail 60s
Reverse-Grip Pulldown 3 to fail 60s

Day 5
Dumbbell Lunge 3 to Failure 60s
Romanian Deadlift 3 to Failure 60s
Cable Overhead Triceps Extension 3 to failure 60s

Day 6
One-arm Cable Lateral Raise 3 to fail 60s
Machine Rear-Delt Flye 3 to Failure 60s
Behind-the-Back Cable Curl 3 to failure 60s

[Tvtyrant]

Down to 340 now, from 360 at the beginning of December. My original goal of losing 80lbs in a year has been done in seven months, the 160 pounds in two years should be done pretty early too.

June

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16265778_10100206739559354_2418687461927682237_n.j pg?oh=62216642e0d9acc7ee7f4178ae5481e2&oe=5A989C86

December

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/24173202_10210829390187041_8854167604250345307_o.j pg?oh=e0ff0c9f05e7badad26759ff3a915239&oe=5AD49C1C

Now

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/27500447_10211279244273112_7053285824027599567_o.j pg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=b8d4c52dc0599b10b36f3c4ec51c185d&oe=5B19451D

[Sivarias]

Down to 340 now, from 360 at the beginning of December. My original goal of losing 80lbs in a year has been done in seven months, the 160 pounds in two years should be done pretty early too.

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27332374_10211272248458221_2679043216441023248_n.j pg?oh=59344e3370539b16ce1ec748d371e4d3&oe=5B1A4038
With a better shirt.
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/27500447_10211279244273112_7053285824027599567_o.j pg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=b8d4c52dc0599b10b36f3c4ec51c185d&oe=5B19451D

Excellent work TvTyrant!! That's some major progress. We're all here rooting for you!

I don't like before pics because it's hard enough looking in the mirror. I don't want a permanent reminder. I like my spreadsheets, keeps the self loathing at arms length. (Again this is for my neurotic behind).

Taylor had a fun birthday today! Her family and I made sure to throw her a HELL of a party. Unfortunately she wanted waffle house for breakfast and tacos for dinner. Not wanting to make her feel bad about my diet on her birthday I just ate without concern with calories or macros. I tried to damage control at dinner by skipping cake and soda but my macros where still all messed up and I finished the day with 2600 calories (800 over).

The important thing is my wife enjoyed her birthday, and I kept myself somewhat under control under the circumstance. I hope everyone is having a great weekend, goodnight!

[AMFV]

Down to 340 now, from 360 at the beginning of December. My original goal of losing 80lbs in a year has been done in seven months, the 160 pounds in two years should be done pretty early too.


Awesome man! I wouldn't get too hung up on the numbers dropping at the same rate though, since as you get further along they are going to slow down, and need adjustment and that sort of thing. So I wouldn't get too happy about things moving faster, or too depressed when they slow some as long as overall you're making your goal markers, if that makes sense.


Excellent work TvTyrant!! That's some major progress. We're all here rooting for you!

I don't like before pics because it's hard enough looking in the mirror. I don't want a permanent reminder. I like my spreadsheets, keeps the self loathing at arms length. (Again this is for my neurotic behind).

Well, I mean those kind of pics are most significant if the primary reason for a fitness regimen is appearance. But if it's not there's not really a reason to make that the focus. I mean if it is, then you'd want to keep track of your appearance because that's important.



Taylor had a fun birthday today! Her family and I made sure to throw her a HELL of a party. Unfortunately she wanted waffle house for breakfast and tacos for dinner. Not wanting to make her feel bad about my diet on her birthday I just ate without concern with calories or macros. I tried to damage control at dinner by skipping cake and soda but my macros where still all messed up and I finished the day with 2600 calories (800 over).

The important thing is my wife enjoyed her birthday, and I kept myself somewhat under control under the circumstance. I hope everyone is having a great weekend, goodnight!

One day is definitely not going to throw off a regimen, I wouldn't take any of the weigh-ins for the next week or so as being completely accurate though, cause you may have some bloating if you're coming off a cut. And I wouldn't have more than one or so days like that a month, give or take.

[Iruka]

Down to 340 now, from 360 at the beginning of December. My original goal of losing 80lbs in a year has been done in seven months, the 160 pounds in two years should be done pretty early too.

[snip]


Congrats on your progress!


Push-ups are coming along nicely. Spent some time on improving my form and am now up to 30 reps maximum.
Since I noticed I had trouble keeping my core stable during longer sets, I started doing additional core excercices: planks, jack knifes and supermans mostly.

Also went for a run in a snow storm yesterday. It was great. :smallbiggrin:

[Cozzer]

After a pretty bad January, fitness-wise (inflammed tendon, then a nasty fever), I've managed to start exercising daily again (with the usual exceptions for Thursday, since my schedule really doesn't allow it, and the days after a particularly tiring night). This feels great! :smallbiggrin:

[Tvtyrant]

After a pretty bad January, fitness-wise (inflammed tendon, then a nasty fever), I've managed to start exercising daily again (with the usual exceptions for Thursday, since my schedule really doesn't allow it, and the days after a particularly tiring night). This feels great! :smallbiggrin:

Sorry to hear that you pulled a tendon. Hopefully February is smooth sailing!

[Sivarias]

So for the first time in I don't know when, when I stepped on the scale I was below 260lbs!

Small celebration for that. Mean's I'm down close to 30lbs since May of last year, counting the break I took (unintentionally, but I didn't know I had a hormone imbalance then) from Mid-July to beginning of January. Mean's I'm down ~8lbs in 3 weeks or so, which is very nice.

I'm trying to stay positive today, but it's been rough. I feel like crap, I dropped my brand new phone and shattered the screen, and I got a call from the hormone doc saying my bloodwork was seriously out of whack and I needed to follow up with my regular doc for his opinion/more tests.

I haven't seen my regular doc in almost 2 years because I've moved and he's over an hour away at this point.

[Tvtyrant]

So for the first time in I don't know when, when I stepped on the scale I was below 260lbs!

Small celebration for that. Mean's I'm down close to 30lbs since May of last year, counting the break I took (unintentionally, but I didn't know I had a hormone imbalance then) from Mid-July to beginning of January. Mean's I'm down ~8lbs in 3 weeks or so, which is very nice.

I'm trying to stay positive today, but it's been rough. I feel like crap, I dropped my brand new phone and shattered the screen, and I got a call from the hormone doc saying my bloodwork was seriously out of whack and I needed to follow up with my regular doc for his opinion/more tests.

I haven't seen my regular doc in almost 2 years because I've moved and he's over an hour away at this point.

First: congrats on the weight loss!

Second: you may want to change doctors then. Having regular access to a doctor is one of the finest perks of civilization.

[Cozzer]

Sorry to hear that you pulled a tendon. Hopefully February is smooth sailing!

And I hope you're right! :smallbiggrin:

In other news, I'm finally under 80 kgs (you anglophone guys and your silly pounds and inches and inferior systems). This means I'm officially in "good weight" zone, and my final assault to that annoying belly fat reserve has begun!

[Sivarias]

First: congrats on the weight loss!

Second: you may want to change doctors then. Having regular access to a doctor is one of the finest perks of civilization.

Thank you!

And while I agree, i had to move to finish school, which I do in either 5 or 11 months depending on if my last class is over the summer, and I'll probably be out of state after that. I had no desire to leapfrog doctors, and because I'm young and invincible, I rarely need them anyway. It was a calculated gamble on my part, that and no insurance.

I might have lost that last one. :smalleek:


And I hope you're right! :smallbiggrin:

In other news, I'm finally under 80 kgs (you anglophone guys and your silly pounds and inches and inferior systems). This means I'm officially in "good weight" zone, and my final assault to that annoying belly fat reserve has begun!

I know, it's the worst. Remember crunches are great for toning up those core muscles, but don't do anything for the fat on top.

Also, 80 kilos? That's ~185 IIRC from my conversion tables, how tall are you that you have any significant pooch?

[Cozzer]

I'm about 1.79m tall (you anglophone guys and your silly feet and inches). Being under 80 kgs, I'm already in the "look good enough" range so I don't really have a significant pooch... but I want to keep going until I reach my personal top shape, nevertheless.

That said, thanks for the encouragement and good luck with your own journey!

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Down to 340 now, from 360 at the beginning of December. My original goal of losing 80lbs in a year has been done in seven months, the 160 pounds in two years should be done pretty early too.

June

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16265778_10100206739559354_2418687461927682237_n.j pg?oh=62216642e0d9acc7ee7f4178ae5481e2&oe=5A989C86

December

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/24173202_10210829390187041_8854167604250345307_o.j pg?oh=e0ff0c9f05e7badad26759ff3a915239&oe=5AD49C1C

Now

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/27500447_10211279244273112_7053285824027599567_o.j pg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=b8d4c52dc0599b10b36f3c4ec51c185d&oe=5B19451D

Wow, congrats on the progress and thanks for the sharing. I'm in a similar boat with Sivarias regarding pics, but maybe I'll get there someday.

Personally I'm still keeping at it, but on a positive note the "back tension" I reported earlier has stopped. I guess it really was just my body adapting to a new activity after all.

Had to help move some boxes and shelves around as part of workplace renovation, which only served to remind me why I need to get fit. I've always been quick to sweat, heh.

[Tvtyrant]

Wow, congrats on the progress and thanks for the sharing. I'm in a similar boat with Sivarias regarding pics, but maybe I'll get there someday.

Personally I'm still keeping at it, but on a positive note the "back tension" I reported earlier has stopped. I guess it really was just my body adapting to a new activity after all.

Had to help move some boxes and shelves around as part of workplace renovation, which only served to remind me why I need to get fit. I've always been quick to sweat, heh.

I use the pictures to prove to myself I am actually progressing. My self loathing is pretty deep and I have difficulty seeing anything good about myself.

I'm glad to hear your back problems were temporary!

[Sivarias]

I use the pictures to prove to myself I am actually progressing. My self loathing is pretty deep and I have difficulty seeing anything good about myself.

I'm glad to hear your back problems were temporary!

That's what my spreadsheets are for. Mine runs pretty deep as well and, frankly it's hard to get over the fact that I'm "still fat"

However I can look at my numbers and say, "I've made serious progress" no matter how I feel about my self.

[Tvtyrant]

That's what my spreadsheets are for. Mine runs pretty deep as well and, frankly it's hard to get over the fact that I'm "still fat"

However I can look at my numbers and say, "I've made serious progress" no matter how I feel about my self.

I can see that. The photos help me visually I guess, they help me to not look in the mirror and see the blob I used to be.

[Florian]

I can see that. The photos help me visually I guess, they help me to not look in the mirror and see the blob I used to be.

That's kind of funny. My metabolism is highly efficient, so I can practically eat anything I want and don't change, the potential fat reservoirs get burned right away. Same with alcohol, I've got to consume faster than my body can break it down even to get a bit tipsy, let's not talk about the volumes it needs to get me drunk. I started to do certain sports and training exercises for health reasons, mainly back musculature, strengthening the spine and anything that builds muscle to help take pressure off of the joints, especially knees, simply because I felt the wear and tear set in already.

Looking in the mirror or at older photos kind of depresses me by showing me what kind of progress is not possible.

[Tvtyrant]

That's kind of funny. My metabolism is highly efficient, so I can practically eat anything I want and don't change, the potential fat reservoirs get burned right away. Same with alcohol, I've got to consume faster than my body can break it down even to get a bit tipsy, let's not talk about the volumes it needs to get me drunk. I started to do certain sports and training exercises for health reasons, mainly back musculature, strengthening the spine and anything that builds muscle to help take pressure off of the joints, especially knees, simply because I felt the wear and tear set in already.

Looking in the mirror or at older photos kind of depresses me by showing me what kind of progress is not possible.

How is the stomach? My workout partner has a very cantankerous stomach and can't make himself eat much without getting sick, so he is very limited calorie wise.

If you have a more palatable palate you might consider oil as a way to add a lot of calories for bulking.

I am sorry to hear about the image issues, I know I am hoping mine will fade a bit as I get healthier.

[AMFV]

Well, today was rough, like crazy rough. I'd forgot to tell my coach about exactly what my brutal deadlift plan was, so he added a day of deadlifting into my workouts. Which I did anyways since next week I'll be at four days a week and that's just brutal. I'm definitely feeling a lot of soreness in my back, and in my stabilizers. This is also the heaviest I've pulled without a belt, and it's definitely more of a challenge.

Although in a super-good note, my biceps are exploding. I'm definitely seeing visual improvements, which are secondary for me, but it's still nice to see. And the weight is definitely moving up easier, although four days pulling heavy a week is really rough on the body. I don't think I would ever do this longterm. But hopefully it'll put my deadlift up decently for my first comp.

Also there's something super primal about lifting without any equipment, I'll have to adjust that the other way before the comp, since that's an equipped lift, but it's just amazing to have nothing but the weight and you, especially if you lift barefoot or in socks, cause then you can feel yourself pressing into the ground and what-not.

I'm also considering increasing my cardio stuff and adding some more flexibility, since I'm starting to get to the weight where I'm wanting to have some improvements in that way. So I'm trying to think of effective lower impact things, since I'm now weighing like 260+ lbs and I don't want to be putting that weight on my knees more than necessary, I'm already squatting enough to beat the hell out of them. And I'll probably be looking into Yoga with my sister, but that seems to be pretty involved. It's a pain to even figure out what each class involves, so I guess I'll have to not be lazy and do research.



Congrats on your progress!


Push-ups are coming along nicely. Spent some time on improving my form and am now up to 30 reps maximum.
Since I noticed I had trouble keeping my core stable during longer sets, I started doing additional core excercices: planks, jack knifes and supermans mostly.

Also went for a run in a snow storm yesterday. It was great. :smallbiggrin:

30 reps is a pretty good milestone! Are you actually holding your core tight during sets or noticing that it wasn't tight when it collapses? There are a few things you can try to get pushups to be more. First is to increase your volume, especially in short order. Like instead of doing one set of 30, do like one set to failure, rest for a couple seconds, then a second set to failure, then a third. Basically for that your rest time should be the time it takes you to move back to the front leaning rest.

The other thing is to have some training sessions where you focus on doing as many pushups as quickly as possible, and then some training sessions where you really concentrate on the movement, slow it down so that each repetitions takes about four seconds to complete, pause both at the top and bottom of the movement. And then once you've mastered those two, you can add in a third style where you lower to the bottom of the movement and pushup as explosively as possible after pausing for a couple seconds. If you get it right you'll be able to do clapping pushups and that impresses people, especially if you can get two to three claps in.

The only other thing I'd try is pushup variations, like raise your legs (you won't be able to do as many this way) put them on a chair or something so they're elevated. Adjust your hand position, do some "Diamond" pushups where your hands are together and some wider pushups, just so that you can make sure that ALL of the muscles involved are improving and you can also highlight particular failure points more easily.


So for the first time in I don't know when, when I stepped on the scale I was below 260lbs!

Small celebration for that. Mean's I'm down close to 30lbs since May of last year, counting the break I took (unintentionally, but I didn't know I had a hormone imbalance then) from Mid-July to beginning of January. Mean's I'm down ~8lbs in 3 weeks or so, which is very nice.

I'm trying to stay positive today, but it's been rough. I feel like crap, I dropped my brand new phone and shattered the screen, and I got a call from the hormone doc saying my bloodwork was seriously out of whack and I needed to follow up with my regular doc for his opinion/more tests.

I haven't seen my regular doc in almost 2 years because I've moved and he's over an hour away at this point.

Well sounds like you should probably get a different doc. On that note, you are probably lighter than me now, so awesome work man!


Wow, congrats on the progress and thanks for the sharing. I'm in a similar boat with Sivarias regarding pics, but maybe I'll get there someday.

Personally I'm still keeping at it, but on a positive note the "back tension" I reported earlier has stopped. I guess it really was just my body adapting to a new activity after all.

Had to help move some boxes and shelves around as part of workplace renovation, which only served to remind me why I need to get fit. I've always been quick to sweat, heh.

Sad part is that when you get fitter, you'll actually sweat more easily. I don't know why that is, but I've noticed that complaint from many folks (and these weren't just people trying to get massive, these were just regular fit folk.)


That's what my spreadsheets are for. Mine runs pretty deep as well and, frankly it's hard to get over the fact that I'm "still fat"

However I can look at my numbers and say, "I've made serious progress" no matter how I feel about my self.

Spreadsheets and numbers of weights lifted are probably the best measures of progress you can get. If you can't do like an accurate body-fat. Especially because the way you feel about yourself is (in my experience) largely internalized. Like I feel relatively the same as I did when I weighed almost one-hundred lbs less. I mean there are a few times when I'll notice, but like I feel the same, and I don't necessarily even always see a difference just looking in a mirror, even though I know that there is a HUGE difference.

That's why numbers are a handy tool, because your eyes can trick you, numbers can also trick you, but will probably trick you less.


That's kind of funny. My metabolism is highly efficient, so I can practically eat anything I want and don't change, the potential fat reservoirs get burned right away. Same with alcohol, I've got to consume faster than my body can break it down even to get a bit tipsy, let's not talk about the volumes it needs to get me drunk. I started to do certain sports and training exercises for health reasons, mainly back musculature, strengthening the spine and anything that builds muscle to help take pressure off of the joints, especially knees, simply because I felt the wear and tear set in already.

Looking in the mirror or at older photos kind of depresses me by showing me what kind of progress is not possible.

That does suck man, the truth is that gaining is a LOT more complicated and dicey than losing is. I mean probably some progress is possible, and honestly probably more than you would think. But gaining is a pain, not just in terms of getting enough calories but in terms of the fact that you could eat 1,000,000 calories and you might just have some really spendy bowel movements as your body expunges rather than uses.

One thing you might try is creatine actually, I know that's kind of a trendy thing to suggest, but the way it works is that it pulls more water into your muscles which can really help with soreness in general and stuff, and help reduce the kind of pressure you're describing. It also can make gaining easier if you're a hardgainer, but again, it's a much dicier proposition.

What's your wrist size like? What's your bone structure? Cause that's going to really be the key to figuring out what kind of muscle gain you can actually manage, if you are trying to figure out what's possible. Since bones are like the foundations for your muscles, and while working out can improve your bone density and size, there are limits based on what you started with.

[Haruki-kun]

So I ran the numbers for protein intake, and realized that I'm eating 3lbs of straight protein a week more or less. Does anyone know what the protein mass to muscle mass conversion rate is? Or know where I can develop an approximation? I'm just curious at this point, wondering how "efficient" my body is with this. Obviously some of that goes to muscle repair and other system needs, but the question is how much?

I assume for bigger guys lifting heavier, more protein is needed to repair the more severe muscle damage done by a workout routine. This will obviously leave less for new musculature to form.

I dunno. I'm a numbers guy. Spreadsheets, percentages, and efficiencies are kind of my thing.

For bodybuilding and strength training? The recommended amount is usually around 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight per day. This tends to get skewed depending on your body composition.

Research on this is sort of observational, but it's what professionals generally recommend.

EDIT: By my math that puts you at about 194~ grams a day, which sounds about right, give or take.

[Tvtyrant]

Anyone here into outdoors stuff? I hike and hunt and fish, and I was thinking of getting into kayaks or canoes (rowing and fishing).

Is a rowing machine sufficient to build up muscle for canoes, or would it be better to practice on a rowboat? I have a small river for the latter near my house, but I live dead center of the nose hell triangle of a waste treatment plant, a dump and a dairy so the water is none too fresh. Going to a cleaner source is too far to do regularly, hence the machine idea.

[Florian]

*Shrugs*

We actually call it "water hiking" around here. Flat land, stable waterways all up to the north or baltic sea. Pretty common hobby and a good way to cover some distance.

Using a rowing machine does train up the basic musculature, but is not the same. No curves, no waves, no wind, just rowing in a straight line, no training to keep your balance in a Kayak.

[Knaight]

Anyone here into outdoors stuff? I hike and hunt and fish, and I was thinking of getting into kayaks or canoes (rowing and fishing).

Is a rowing machine sufficient to build up muscle for canoes, or would it be better to practice on a rowboat? I have a small river for the latter near my house, but I live dead center of the nose hell triangle of a waste treatment plant, a dump and a dairy so the water is none too fresh. Going to a cleaner source is too far to do regularly, hence the machine idea.

A rowing machine helps build up muscle, but fundamentally the movements for paddling a canoe are different from the movements of a rowing machine, which are different from the movements for paddling a kayak. The easiest way to build up muscles for canoeing is to go canoeing, the easiest way to build up muscles for kayaking is to go kayaking. Just start in a reservoir or similar instead of jumping straight into white water.

With that not being regularly doable just generally building arm strength then going canoeing when you can works fine. I'd look around for water sources first though - it's entirely possible that you've missed some small lake or reservoir nearby; canoes have very shallow drafts and kayaks are yet shallower and you can get by in surprisingly small waterways.

I'd also recommend trying both before buying either, so that you can discover whether you favor canoeing as is good and proper, or you're some sort of degenerate who would rather kayak for some inexplicable reason. :smallamused:

[Tvtyrant]

A rowing machine helps build up muscle, but fundamentally the movements for paddling a canoe are different from the movements of a rowing machine, which are different from the movements for paddling a kayak. The easiest way to build up muscles for canoeing is to go canoeing, the easiest way to build up muscles for kayaking is to go kayaking. Just start in a reservoir or similar instead of jumping straight into white water.

With that not being regularly doable just generally building arm strength then going canoeing when you can works fine. I'd look around for water sources first though - it's entirely possible that you've missed some small lake or reservoir nearby; canoes have very shallow drafts and kayaks are yet shallower and you can get by in surprisingly small waterways.

I'd also recommend trying both before buying either, so that you can discover whether you favor canoeing as is good and proper, or you're some sort of degenerate who would rather kayak for some inexplicable reason. :smallamused:

The only problem is kayaks transport more easily then canoes, and the water around is here is mostly rough.

Why do you prefer canoes?

[Knaight]

The only problem is kayaks transport more easily then canoes, and the water around is here is mostly rough.

Why do you prefer canoes?

Partly because they're more stable and easier to steer, but mostly due to them just feeling more fun. It's largely an emotional reaction, but preference often is. I've had fun kayaking before, particularly the one time I went sea-kayaking (they have better steering).

[Florian]

The only problem is kayaks transport more easily then canoes, and the water around is here is mostly rough.

Why do you prefer canoes?

To expand a bit on what Knaight wrote earlier, rowing is parallel arms movement, the double-sided paddles of a kayak is asynchronous arms movement and the single-sided paddles of a canoe is counter arms movement. So all very different.

Canoes are more stable and offer better storage capacity for longer trips. It´s also quite fun to rent a 3 or 4 person version and go on a weekend trip with family or friends.

[AMFV]

The good news is that my second deadlift day this week was way easier than the first. Although that has me a little worried, since I'm wanting the most benefit possible out of this deadlift training and that should mean that things should get progressively more difficult or maintain the same. Also it was interesting as today was Ash Wednesday so I hadn't gotten the feeding I'd really have wanted for this. But it was not so bad, we'll see how the remaining two days go, since the weight really ratchets up there.

I also have all kinds of other fitness things I need to think about, my cardio is not where it really should be for my health, but it's hard to figure out any kind of cardio that would work for me without me losing too much strength and since I'm getting much heavier impact is an issue, so it's a complex thing. Of course, when I start work again that'll probably sort itself.

And I also have to figure out what things I want to buy, between squat and deadlift suits and stuff. And I have to make decisions about chemical assistance and if that's a route I want to go back down. Which is to say the least a super complicated matter.

Anyways that's what's on my mind.


For bodybuilding and strength training? The recommended amount is usually around 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight per day. This tends to get skewed depending on your body composition.

Research on this is sort of observational, but it's what professionals generally recommend.

EDIT: By my math that puts you at about 194~ grams a day, which sounds about right, give or take.

Yeah, this is a hugely disputed area. I think generally my advice is to take the higher recommendations when people suggest them, which tends to be 1.5g to a pound, just because unless you have kidney problems there's not really a problem with getting too much protein, and that way you'll wind up with less carb calories anyways which can be beneficial.


Anyone here into outdoors stuff? I hike and hunt and fish, and I was thinking of getting into kayaks or canoes (rowing and fishing).

Is a rowing machine sufficient to build up muscle for canoes, or would it be better to practice on a rowboat? I have a small river for the latter near my house, but I live dead center of the nose hell triangle of a waste treatment plant, a dump and a dairy so the water is none too fresh. Going to a cleaner source is too far to do regularly, hence the machine idea.

My advice is pretty much the same as everybody else's although my experience is somewhat less. If you want to get better at something, you have to do that thing. That's pretty much it. Like you can do other stuff to help some, but the best thing is to focus on that thing. That's why powerlifters focus on their main lifts and do the rest as accessories. And you'll find the same in most sports.

[hq27]

lol go fr your dreamssssss :smallcool:

[Sivarias]

So spent the last two weeks falling off the wagon.

Apparently the depression wasn't gone, just in remission. As soon as I paused my workout routine it came back with a vengeance. This killed self esteem and I ate a bunch of fast food. I'm back up to 165. Two weeks of progress flushed in a week.

Means I can't get below 250 by my bday without starving myself (March 7th) Worse, I'm seriously considering it because I HATE being fat. I've been fat for so long. I PROMISED myself that I would NEVER be above a 40" waist or more than 250lbs.

Considering I'm currently above both just ****ing hurts.

So the trifecta of suck is

Poor self care
Depression
Compulsive behaviors


I need to fix them in that order unfortunately otherwise the ones on top trigger the ones on bottom. Time to bootstrap again.

I'm just so tired of having to hate myself up off the floor.

[AMFV]

So spent the last two weeks falling off the wagon.

Apparently the depression wasn't gone, just in remission. As soon as I paused my workout routine it came back with a vengeance. This killed self esteem and I ate a bunch of fast food. I'm back up to 165. Two weeks of progress flushed in a week.

Means I can't get below 250 by my bday without starving myself (March 7th) Worse, I'm seriously considering it because I HATE being fat. I've been fat for so long. I PROMISED myself that I would NEVER be above a 40" waist or more than 250lbs.
.

Well if you're already having hormone problems you DEFINITELY should not starve yourself. That will really throw your hormones out of whack. All you really can do here is probably recalculate. I mean one bad week will kill two weeks, so you've lost two weeks, you still have 42 weeks left this year to have better progress. So I wouldn't stress it, any kind of stressful knee-jerk reaction is going to make things worse, particularly if you have hormonal issues.

I would recommend getting back to working out, and focusing on that, since that can help with both kinds of issues, at least in some sense. And then focus on what you're doing well, rather than what you're failing at. Focusing on the negative stuff makes people quit, focusing on what they've accomplished and what they are accomplishing helps them keep it up.

[Sivarias]

I know you're right, I just also know I can drop to 1200 calories for a month and drop twenty lbs. (I've done it before). Then bump back up to normal once I'm passed the "disgusting" zone.

It's part of the compulsive behaviors issue. I want the quick fix reward to absolve my guilt and encourage me forward. If I do this slow and steady I know I'm going to be discouraged until I'm below 258 which would mark my "should have" progress.

It's just SO SO tempting. I'll be maybe sort of hungry (depression spikes the **** out of my appetite). Right now I just need to pre-cook my meals, and workout. Get to the gym today. Go for a walk tomorrow. Etc.

[AMFV]

I know you're right, I just also know I can drop to 1200 calories for a month and drop twenty lbs. (I've done it before). Then bump back up to normal once I'm passed the "disgusting" zone.

It's part of the compulsive behaviors issue. I want the quick fix reward to absolve my guilt and encourage me forward. If I do this slow and steady I know I'm going to be discouraged until I'm below 258 which would mark my "should have" progress.

It's just SO SO tempting. I'll be maybe sort of hungry (depression spikes the **** out of my appetite). Right now I just need to pre-cook my meals, and workout. Get to the gym today. Go for a walk tomorrow. Etc.

Well as somebody who has done a lot of research on hormone stuff, I can tell you that starvation drops your testosterone levels into the garbage. You'll lose a lot more doing that, if you aren't super careful with it. And also the vast majority of what you loose on a super quick cut like that is water weight, so it's kind of pointless.

Here's what I would recommend, take a break from the scale for a bit, focus on other measures of improvement (like gym capacity and what-not) keep your diet consistent and then weigh yourself after you're going to be closer to where you want to be. That way the temptation isn't there.

[Glass Mouse]

TVTyrant: That's frikkin' awesome, noticable progress! Keep it up!

Sivarias: Oh man, I know that desire to overcorrect once you've messed up. For me, it works so well to forgive myself and just reboot with no dramatics. The past doesn't matter. What matters is what I do today and in the future, because those I can change. No need to atone or punish myself. Just course correct and keep going.


A small status for me: The biking thing is going... ehhh. Last week I biked only once, but before that I was going strong. Forgive, and back in the saddle, then :smallsmile:
However, the cold turkey on sweets is going amazingly. I've messed up two days since I started, eating a small serving of cake on both days, which is still much less than I used to binge. So that marks twenty successful days, no current cravings, and the craziest of all... I seem to be losing weight! Noticably so!* After THREE WEEKS. I've never tried this before, and it is frikkin' awesome! I didn't know I could feel control over my body and my eating habits like this, and oh man it's amazing!

Yes, I know it's silly to be so worked up over a simple three weeks, but I've literally never had this amount of control over it before. Sugar addiction is a beast, and it says a lot about my mental health that I can do it right now. It's a huge confidence boost.

I'm currently debating with myself about whether to institute a fast food ban in March, too, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. It's gonna be much harder, definitely.

* I haven't owned scales for ten years, so I have no numbers, but my jeans don't lie.

[Cozzer]

Sivarias: Oh man, I know that desire to overcorrect once you've messed up. For me, it works so well to forgive myself and just reboot with no dramatics. The past doesn't matter. What matters is what I do today and in the future, because those I can change. No need to atone or punish myself. Just course correct and keep going.

Absolutely true. Sivarias, self-shaming and self-flagellation are rotten feelings and even if you can use them as fuel to reach some short-term goals quickly, they will only lead you to bad places in the long run. Mistakes and bad times happen in any long-term project, you just need to accept that and move on. You can do it and, in fact, you're already doing it. That feeling is the fuel you need to actually accomplish things.

Incidentally, I've just had what I like to call a "carbs-only weekend". Whoops. :smalltongue:

[Sivarias]

Well as somebody who has done a lot of research on hormone stuff, I can tell you that starvation drops your testosterone levels into the garbage. You'll lose a lot more doing that, if you aren't super careful with it. And also the vast majority of what you loose on a super quick cut like that is water weight, so it's kind of pointless.

Here's what I would recommend, take a break from the scale for a bit, focus on other measures of improvement (like gym capacity and what-not) keep your diet consistent and then weigh yourself after you're going to be closer to where you want to be. That way the temptation isn't there.



Sivarias: Oh man, I know that desire to overcorrect once you've messed up. For me, it works so well to forgive myself and just reboot with no dramatics. The past doesn't matter. What matters is what I do today and in the future, because those I can change. No need to atone or punish myself. Just course correct and keep going.


A small status for me: The biking thing is going... ehhh. Last week I biked only once, but before that I was going strong. Forgive, and back in the saddle, then :smallsmile:
However, the cold turkey on sweets is going amazingly. I've messed up two days since I started, eating a small serving of cake on both days, which is still much less than I used to binge. So that marks twenty successful days, no current cravings, and the craziest of all... I seem to be losing weight! Noticably so!* After THREE WEEKS. I've never tried this before, and it is frikkin' awesome! I didn't know I could feel control over my body and my eating habits like this, and oh man it's amazing!

Yes, I know it's silly to be so worked up over a simple three weeks, but I've literally never had this amount of control over it before. Sugar addiction is a beast, and it says a lot about my mental health that I can do it right now. It's a huge confidence boost.

I'm currently debating with myself about whether to institute a fast food ban in March, too, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. It's gonna be much harder, definitely.

* I haven't owned scales for ten years, so I have no numbers, but my jeans don't lie.


Absolutely true. Sivarias, self-shaming and self-flagellation are rotten feelings and even if you can use them as fuel to reach some short-term goals quickly, they will only lead you to bad places in the long run. Mistakes and bad times happen in any long-term project, you just need to accept that and move on. You can do it and, in fact, you're already doing it. That feeling is the fuel you need to actually accomplish things.

Incidentally, I've just had what I like to call a "carbs-only weekend". Whoops. :smalltongue:

Thanks for the pep talk guys. It's just that I swore I'd never be over 250lb or a 40in waist and I looked up last year and realized I'd done BOTH of those things. It's been almost a year and I keep falling off the wagon. I'm still only down 30lbs. Still above 250. Still a 42 waist.

It's just..... GAHHH! Why did I let myself get this bad. It's the magic non-disgusting number you know? I wonder if this is how eating disorders start?

Glassmouse: I definitely get it. Three weeks without doing a daily binge is definitely something to be exceedingly proud of. It's good to realize you're in a good mental place.

Cozzer: Just overcorrect and stop having carbs ever! :smallbiggrin:

[Cozzer]

Cozzer: Just overcorrect and stop having carbs ever!

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/LLpIMRowndg/maxresdefault.jpg

How could have I not noticed this simple solution?!

[Tvtyrant]

@Glass Mouse cutting out sugar made me feel way better too! To the point where I wonder why my family is so resistant..

@Sivarias Can you get your family to diet with you? What about a support group? From my experience watching others do what you aren't allowed to wears down your will.

Body is in full revolt now. First my back started having problems months ago, then my right knee a few weeks ago, noe my left ankle. I am 80lbs lighter and in far better shape then last year, why are these problems starting now?

[Sivarias]

@Sivarias Can you get your family to diet with you? What about a support group? From my experience watching others do what you aren't allowed to wears down your will.

Body is in full revolt now. First my back started having problems months ago, then my right knee a few weeks ago, noe my left ankle. I am 80lbs lighter and in far better shape then last year, why are these problems starting now?

My wife does. If either of us fall off the wagon it's usually away from each other.

Regarding soreness, your body had adjusted to a different set of extreme stresses under all that weight. Now that you aren't under those stresses, coping mechanisms are out of whack with your needs. It's why they don't recommend losing a lot (50+) lbs super fast. Lets your cartilage and ligaments adjust.

[Glass Mouse]

@Glass Mouse cutting out sugar made me feel way better too! To the point where I wonder why my family is so resistant..

I know right! It took, like, a week before my blood sugar stabilized and now my energy levels are just so consistent. I'm starting to feel regular, actual hunger rather than the energy nosedives that have usually signified time for food. In fact, the spells of pure exhaustion seem to have disappeared entirely. I also haven't had a spot of acne for three weeks.