Best Sorcerer/Warlock MC Ratio?

[Azther]

Hey guys, I'm thinking of multiclassing my Draconic Sorcerer into Undying Light/Celestial Warlock. What do you guys think is the perfect Ratio for Sorcerer/Warlock?

18/2 - Gets me Eldritch Blast and Agonizing Blast
16/4 - Gets me Pact Boon and an ASI
14/6 - Gets me Radiant Soul and 3 Invocations

I can't make up my mind. What's your opinion?

[Kane0]

Two levels is the most common, though anything works really.

3: Boon and 2nd level slots
4: ASI
5: 3rd level slots + invocation
6: patron feature
7: 4th level slots + invocation
8: ASI
9: 5th level slots + invocation
10: patron feature

It really depends on what your goal is.

[Eragon123]

17/3 is pretty good. Keep in mind warlock doesn't stack with sorcerer in terms of spell casting. So if you want those 9th level spells...

The ASI isn't super important as you are quite SAD.

Warlock 3 gives 2 invocations and 2 lv 2 spell slots to be canabolized for points before every short rest.

The thing that sucks is that you'll want to go sorcerer first and dip the warlock later. (Dat CON save proficiency).

level 5 will be painful as you will not have level 3 spells and everyone else will or extra attack.

[Matrix_Walker]

Sorcerer Level 1 - Con Saves, the Shield spell
Warlock Level 2 - EB and a pair of Invocations
Sorcerer 2&3 - Bring that metamagic online.

That's the typical path I take to level 5 for this multiclass. I have done it twice, and once I went Warlock 2 and once Warlock 3 for the tome (Shillelagh+Guidance+Whatev's) and book of secrets (Find Familiar)

I find metamagic far more compelling than Warlock goodies, so in both instances, I went pure Sorcerer after that.

[8wGremlin]

Warlock 3 is important, you get your pact kicking in, and can actually start to pick up pack related invocations.

[Rebonack]

Level 2 if you're only really interested in quickened EB nonsense.

Level 3 gives you a pretty nice pool of spell slots to convert into sorcery points and of course access to Boons.

[Chugger]

level 5 will be painful as you will not have level 3 spells and everyone else will or extra attack.

True but iirc your cantrips go off your overall level. So you can fire 2 EBs each with a cha bonus with the invo. That makes it a little better. But not having lvl 3 spells will hurt.

[BoxANT]

either 3 or 5 (6 only if the pact feature is amazing)

Personally, I like 5 for the 3rd level spells slots and 3rd invocation

[8wGremlin]

True but iirc your cantrips go off your overall level. So you can fire 2 EBs each with a cha bonus with the invo. That makes it a little better. But not having lvl 3 spells will hurt.

Funny I don't find this at all, yes you lack 3rd level spells which you can cast twice per long rest as a straight caster, or a twice a rest if warlock.

I play under 4 different GMs and none of them adhere to the "standard adventuring day" they are all excellent GMs and have played many pre written and bespoke campaigns, so not having those 3rd level slots for a level or so isn't that big a deal in my opinion, (yours will vary depending upon your experience)

I do find that versatility for me is better, and having more options to contribute to the party is more valuable that those 3rd level spells. yes they are sweet and I'll get there, but they are not the be all and end all off gaming.

You may not get high level, the campaign might end before you get to 11th (most do in my experience, been playing D&D for nearly 40 years (oh hel!))

So do what you feel is right for your game, and your party, and have fun.

[Citan]

Sorcerer Level 1 - Con Saves, the Shield spell
Warlock Level 2 - EB and a pair of Invocations
Sorcerer 2&3 - Bring that metamagic online.

That's the typical path I take to level 5 for this multiclass. I have done it twice, and once I went Warlock 2 and once Warlock 3 for the tome (Shillelagh+Guidance+Whatev's) and book of secrets (Find Familiar)

I find metamagic far more compelling than Warlock goodies, so in both instances, I went pure Sorcerer after that.
Hi OP

I'll 100% agree with proposed leveling until level 5.

After that though, I'd rather say "it's up to you".
Really depends on your Warlock patron choice, your pact choice, your metamagic choices, and how high you want your spells to go (or rather how you view your character).

Warlock Patron: if you go Celestial, it's probably because you are interested in healing, so it may be worth going at least up to 5 for Revivify and decent healing pool.

Pact choice: if you go Blade, you really want to go up to 5 for either Extra Attack or (UA) smite, or both. Even if you pick up Chain or Blade, you may still want to go up to 5 to get both dedicated invocation and still have Agonizing Repelling Blast.
Or maybe you don't care at all about pacts, but you want the nastiest control cantrip that may be by stacking Agonizing and Repelling with the UA invocation Frost Lance.

Metamagic choices: if you pick only 1-SP metamagics such as Distant, Subtle or Extended, you don't care that much about having a high pool of SP because you will use them "slow enough" to compensate with Warlock's short rest slots if needed. If you pick Quicken, you will probably want at the very least 6 SP. If you want to Twin 3+ level spells, you definitely want at least 10 SP.

Character type: if you want a fullcaster, then 17 / 3 is the only way it can work. After that it's up to you between Warlock and Sorcerer (I'd tend to favor Sorcerer, but high-level Warlock are a force to be reckoned with). If you want a gish that smites, then Warlock 11 / Sorcerer 9 is probably your best split (short rest slots for smiting, still slots for other spells), with Sorcerer 15 / Warlock 5 being another option (draconic wings + haste every short rest for example).
If you want a character with great utility, then Tome Warlock 7 is all you need (beware that how many rituals you actually learn totally rests on DM shoulder, so you have to trust him. Otherwise, I'd probably pick another pact or cap Warlock at 3).
Etc etc...

Basically "anything works" really, so the best way to decide is probably to think about every feature of both classes, pick the three high-level spells or features you absolutely want and deduce the split from that.

[Byke]

18/2 or 17/3 (with the 3rd level taken after you hit 9th Sorc spells)

As for leveling

EB + AB doesn't "really" come online until 5th.

When I level my Sorclock, I went 1-3 to get 2nd level spells and metamagic online ASAP.

1-3 Sorc
2 Lock
X Sorc

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Going to Warlock 3 to pick up Book of Ancient Secrets really helps with utility, which is the real weakness of the build otherwise in my opinion.

[ghost_warlock]

Going to Warlock 3 to pick up Book of Ancient Secrets really helps with utility, which is the real weakness of the build otherwise in my opinion.

Note that you won't be able to get more than 2nd level rituals with this. The level of the rituals you can add to the Book are capped at the level of your warlock spell slots.

Now, 1st & 2nd level rituals are still pretty good, but you won't get Leomund's Tiny Hut unless you invest 5 levels into warlock.

[8wGremlin]

The best Sorcerer combo i've played was a drow Hexblade patron, (pact of the tomb)/ Sorcerer (favoured soul)
and doing the coffee lock spell slot thingy.

Look at the spell healing elixir (UA starter spell) - use your warlock spells to create these, and then they keep for 24 hours. Whilst you short rest and get back your slots - to use again...

If you take the no sleep invocation, you can get 8 short rests per long rest = 16 potions that all do 2d4+2 healing that last 24 hours

[Zene]

Very important consideration:
18/2 gets you Wish at level 19
17/3 gets you Wish at level 20

All the others don’t get you wish.

[samcifer]

Very important consideration:
18/2 gets you Wish at level 19
17/3 gets you Wish at level 20

All the others don’t get you wish.

And the last pair of metamagics hit at sorc 18, so you'll miss those as well if you go more than 2 levels outside of sorc.

[coyote_sly]

I think lock 2/sorc X is probably most common, but I really like warlock 3. Sure you get tome/blade/chain options, but most importantly you get level two warlock spell slots. That extra warlock level gets you a total of 4 Metamagic points per short rest, which a pure sorc can't replicate until LEVEL 20.

I think it works best second tier, since you still probably want to go sorc 5 for level 3 slots first. But the warlock dip just solves so many of the mechanical problems a pure Sorcerer has, it's kind of nuts (and indicative of the sorc's poor design, IMO).

[UrielAwakened]

Warlock 2 is mandatory, Warlock 3 is optional.

I'm probably gonna take it because I really like metamagic and doubling my points I get back per short rest is awesome. Getting magic resistance from a familiar for storyline purposes is neat but the real draw for me is the sorcery points.

[samcifer]

I think lock 2/sorc X is probably most common, but I really like warlock 3. Sure you get tome/blade/chain options, but most importantly you get level two warlock spell slots. That extra warlock level gets you a total of 4 Metamagic points per short rest, which a pure sorc can't replicate until LEVEL 20.

You mean 6 sp. Level of slot -> SP:

L1 = 2 sp
L2 = 3 sp

[UrielAwakened]

You mean 6 sp. Level of slot -> SP:

L1 = 2 sp
L2 = 3 sp

It costs 3 spell points to get a level 2 slot.

You only get 2 spell points for trading in your slot.

If you keep trading slots for points over and over you will eventually end up with 0 spell points and 0 slots. It's a raw deal.

[samcifer]

It costs 3 spell points to get a level 2 slot.

You only get 2 spell points for trading in your slot.

If you keep trading slots for points over and over you will eventually end up with 0 spell points and 0 slots. It's a raw deal.

Oh, okay. Didn't remember that part.

[UrielAwakened]

Oh, okay. Didn't remember that part.

Can't say I blame you, it's silly that it doesn't work the same in both directions.

[Zene]

And the last pair of metamagics hit at sorc 18, so you'll miss those as well if you go more than 2 levels outside of sorc.

I think you're thinking of 17, and you only get one metamagic choice (two at 3, one at 10, one at 17). Level 18 is when you get the last sorcerous origin feature.

[Strangways]

Between now and the release of Xanathar’s in early November, we can only speculate. What seems optimal now may not seem that way once Xanathar material is available.

[Citan]

Can't say I blame you, it's silly that it doesn't work the same in both directions.
It may be silly at first, but it was a conscious design decision to avoid Sorcerer severely trumping any other caster, Wizard (the one with normally the most slots) and Warlock (the king of mid-level casting) included and first on the line.

Consider that, if really you had no loss when converting back and forth, one minute could be enough for you to get as many high-level slots as you'd wish. It would effectively be "use the spellpoint variant without assuming it".
And having someone that could unleash twice or thrice the normal number of his highest level spells would cause many balance problems (that's precisely why the Warlock first gets upcasts, then gets extra slots).

Soo... Yeah, as a player I'm as saddened as you by that choice, but I perfectly understands it... :)

[Azther]

btw what do you guys think of the variant spell point rule for spellcasting? I think it sounds really good if applied to sorcerers, perhaps only to them, since they already seem so lackluster compared to other classes

[Kane0]

Why yes, I do think that is a good idea. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?537049-Sorcerer-Rework)

[samcifer]

It may be silly at first, but it was a conscious design decision to avoid Sorcerer severely trumping any other caster, Wizard (the one with normally the most slots) and Warlock (the king of mid-level casting) included and first on the line.

Consider that, if really you had no loss when converting back and forth, one minute could be enough for you to get as many high-level slots as you'd wish. It would effectively be "use the spellpoint variant without assuming it".
And having someone that could unleash twice or thrice the normal number of his highest level spells would cause many balance problems (that's precisely why the Warlock first gets upcasts, then gets extra slots).

Soo... Yeah, as a player I'm as saddened as you by that choice, but I perfectly understands it... :)

Corrected again. That's what I get for posting while at work. :P