Bane Magic (3.5)

[SirNibbles]

Bane Magic (Heroes of Horror, page 119 and Lords of Madness, page 178) is a feat which adds 2d6 to all of your spell damage and increases the save DC (if any) by 2 when you use it against a certain type of target. The Heroes of Horror version directly references the fact that it is an update to the Lords of Madness version, with the change of being able to choose any type of target rather than just Aberrations.

A spell which hits multiple times (such as Magic Missile) only gets the bonus damage on a single missile, while spells which deal damage over multiple rounds get the bonus damage every round.

"Each time you take the feat, you must apply its effects to a different type of creature: aberrations, animals, constructs, dragons, elementals, fey, giants, humanoids, magical beasts, monstrous humanoids, oozes, outsiders, plants, undead, or vermin. If you choose humanoids, you must select a particular type of humanoid, such as dwarf or orc." - Heroes of Horror, page 119

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Is this feat worth taking (beyond obvious flavour purposes)? Are there too many types of enemies for it to be useful? How would you optimise it?

I could see this being useful at low levels combined with spells like Sonic Snap to deal a no-save 2d6+1 with a level 0 spell. Multi-round spells like Creeping Cold would appear to benefit greatly as well. A charitable ruling of Flash Frost Spell (Player's Handbook II, page 91) would seem to allow the extra damage to be applied to ability damage.


But, if a spell did both HP and ability damage, where would the extra damage be applied? :smallconfused:

I'm specifically thinking of a Flash Frost Thin Air spell, here.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Power Word: Pain in Races of the Dragon is a 1st level spell that deals 1d6 damage per round for quite a few rounds. It's mind-affecting, so it won't work on plenty of opponents, but it's probably one of your best choices to use with that feat.

Regarding the feat itself, I'd say it's only useful if you know you're going to be fighting quite a lot of a particular type of foe, such as orcs or giants or similar. It may be useful to pick as a Chameleon's floating feat if you know you'll be fighting a lot of a particular opponent on a given day. Otherwise it's probably not worth even considering.

[Thurbane]

In a campaign heavy on one type of enemy (and some are), it's useful at lower levels. Your 1d3 acid splash is suddenly 1d3+2d6.

If the DM allows re-training rules, maybe you could swap it out at higher levels?

[Fizban]

I'd say it's an excellent feat, assuming the obvious caveat that your DM has to be using the monster type. If your DM has told you a certain monster type will be a major feature, you're good. If you're playing a module that has a heavy focus, you're good. If you don't know what's going to feature, you can wait until you do before taking the feat.

You get potential synergy mileage with Rangers: a good DM should make frequent use the Ranger's Favored Enemy, so picking one of those should be safe- but as always, if a party is too specialized against a certain monster, it's more likely those monsters will be replaced with much more powerful examples to compensate.

And of course, through the power of Psychic Reformation you can change your type choice if it turns out you picked a dud (or just take a different feat).

As for type choices, it's fairly well known that Magical Beasts, Undead, and Outsiders have the lion's share of the creature entries, while Dragons are feared for their raw power and dragonblood subtype is another campaign theme. Meanwhile, Humanoids are rarely tough enough to require a special damage bonus (no pvp balance), Constructs are usually dumb, as are Animals and Vermin and Elementals, Monstrous Humanoids are fairly rare and only a touch tougher than Humanoids, Plants are rare. . . that leaves what, Giants? So if your DM's using Giant tribes at high levels those might be worth it. At most 5 categories to choose from, +2 DC is worth two feats, you can probably cover half the major players in the campaign.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Bane Magic seems like a nice enough low-level feat, or an NPC feat, or for flavour. I can imagine a nice druid ACF with a Bane Magic progression, similar to a ranger's Favoured Enemy progression.


[...] +2 DC is worth two feats
Well, not really. It's what you get for two feats, but those feats aren't worth it :smalltongue:.

[JustIgnoreMe]

I totally misunderstood what this thread would be about.

*voice muffled by complicated mask*
You think magic is your ally? You merely adopted the magic. I was born in it, molded by it.

[Nifft]

It's not always optimal, but it's a solid choice if you know your DM's monster palette well enough to get regular use out of it, and it's a fine choice for putting some mechanical teeth behind a role-playing choice.

Even at high levels, it can be solid: consider a cloud of knives spell inflicting an extra 3d6 as a free action every turn, or a pair of acid fog + haboob which deals 5d4+6d6 to an area each turn (no save, no SR, just death over time).

It will eventually look underwhelming on a fireball, but mostly that's at a point where fireball itself is underwhelming.

[AnimeTheCat]

In campaigns that I have experience with I would think that Bane Magic for Humanoids, Outsiders, Undead, and Magic Beasts would be good from the start all the way till the end. From the beginning you'll always be fighting Humanoids, Undead, and Magic Beasts, but in later levels you'll be fighting lots of outsiders most likely. If it were me, a feat for a permanent +2d6 damage without changing casting times, spell levels, etc. sounds great to me. I would take it for humanoids, but games i'm in usually fight humanoids rather than magic beasts.

[Deophaun]

Bane Magic + celestial brilliance = whole lot of destroyed undead/evil outsiders without really doing anything. Got a chameleon in a campaign that will be handy in. Going to have to remember it.

[Fizban]

Huh. Bane Magic does require the usual choice of a specific subtype of humanoids, but not outsiders.

[SirNibbles]

Bane Magic + celestial brilliance = whole lot of destroyed undead/evil outsiders without really doing anything. Got a chameleon in a campaign that will be handy in. Going to have to remember it.

That's actually really useful. Cast it on the front liner's weapon once a week and let him destroy undead just by drawing it. With Chameleon, you don't even need to have the feat on the day the undead are going to suffer the effects of the spell, just the day you cast it.
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Huh. Bane Magic does require the usual choice of a specific subtype of humanoids, but not outsiders.

Interesting point.

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Boneblast (Book of Vile Darkness, page 86 is a Blackguard 1/Cleric 2 spell which deals 1d3 Con damage, or 1d3+2d6 with Bane Magic (assuming you have a way to make it deal HP damage first).

Caltrops (Spell Compendium, page 42) can be effective when combined with the Sculpt Spell metamagic feat (Complete Arcane, page 83) to inundate a large area with caltrops which deal 2d6+1 damage thanks to Bane Magic with a level 1 spell slot.

Dawnburst (Complete Mage, page 101) is another spell that can really hammer undead, lasting 1 round/level and dealing 3d6 every round to undead and others. It's a first level Sorcerer/Wizard spell.

[KillianHawkeye]

Huh. Bane Magic does require the usual choice of a specific subtype of humanoids, but not outsiders.

That seems more like a simple oversight than anything. Outsider Bane weapons force you to choose a subtype. Heroes of Horror never got any errata.

[Blackhawk748]

It's not a waste of a feat slot. I'd use it if I was a blaster in an Undead heavy game, or if I ever do Expedition to the Demonweb Pits or RHoD again.

[Nifft]

It's not a waste of a feat slot. I'd use it if I was a blaster in an Undead heavy game, or if I ever do Expedition to the Demonweb Pits or RHoD again.

Yeah.

If you know what you're going to face, it's a valid feat choice.

[ayvango]

It's not a waste of a feat slot.
You have plenty of feats on the 1st level if you dare to take flaws. But sometimes you could not fulfill prerequisite on the first level. So you could take bane magic temporary and switch the feat later. Undead bane magic light of lunia would generate 16d6 damage. 2d6 from the basic spell, 2d6 from the bane feat, take 4 times: 2 uses for the caster, 2 uses for his familiar.

[jdizzlean]

The Mod Life Crisis:My Anti-Necromancy Bane Magic spell crits.