Cleric + Planar Binding

[Yogibear41]

I'm a LE Cleric with access to the Diabolic Domain, which gives Lesser Planar Binding and Planar Binding spells.

I want to bind LE Devils to do my bidding. But since I am LE I can cast neither protection from evil, or protection from chaos. Am I doomed to fail in my Planar binding activities? or is there away around this I am missing?

[Venger]

I'm a LE Cleric with access to the Diabolic Domain, which gives Lesser Planar Binding and Planar Binding spells.

I want to bind LE Devils to do my bidding. But since I am LE I can cast neither protection from evil, or protection from chaos. Am I doomed to fail in my Planar binding activities? or is there away around this I am missing?

Are you playing an eberron game? They ignore that stupid alignment stuff about spells. other than that, nar demonbinder technically lets you do what you want, but it might be a bit of a headache if your build's already laid out.

[Necroticplague]

I'm a LE Cleric with access to the Diabolic Domain, which gives Lesser Planar Binding and Planar Binding spells.

I want to bind LE Devils to do my bidding. But since I am LE I can cast neither protection from evil, or protection from chaos. Am I doomed to fail in my Planar binding activities? or is there away around this I am missing?

You simply have to use a different spell. Planar Ally is what you want. No circle necessary.

[Crake]

You simply have to use a different spell. Planar Ally is what you want. No circle necessary.

Pretty much this, use planar binding for summoning LN, TN or NE things. As a LE cleric, devils are at your deity's command, so you can just planar ally.

[AnimeTheCat]

As they said above, or you could talk to your DM to see if you can get a neutral cleric or a wizard of any alignment to help you when you cast it. Have them cast the Protection from X spell you need.

[Nifft]

Can you use your planar binding to snag a non-LE elemental or outsider who can cast the appropriate Abjuration spell for you?

I think you can't planar bind anything Good or Chaotic, due to alignment restrictions on Cleric casting, but you ought to be able to score something in the NE / LN / N range which can circumvent your list for at least that purpose.

Off the top of my head, the Sylph from MM2 is "usually Neutral", has 3 HD, and casts as a Sorcerer of level (HD+4). Snag two with one lesser planar binding, or seek out an advanced one.

[Segev]

It's worth noting that there's nothing preventing you from using planar binding like a planar ally spell. The creature is called, CAN try to escape, but...you just talk to it. Bargain with it. There's nothing compelling you to compel it with force.

[Nifft]

It's worth noting that there's nothing preventing you from using planar binding like a planar ally spell. The creature is called, CAN try to escape, but...you just talk to it. Bargain with it. There's nothing compelling you to compel it with force.

What you say is true, but I will point out that this is an evil Cleric calling up [Evil] creatures.

"Compelling with force" seems like a sensible default strategy both in and out of character.

[Segev]

What you say is true, but I will point out that this is an evil Cleric calling up [Evil] creatures.

"Compelling with force" seems like a sensible default strategy both in and out of character.

Certainly! There's a reason planar binding isn't usually on the cleric list, and the difficulty of using it on creatures of a cleric's own alignment is probably one of them.

But still, a magic item of the right circle, or just a helper who can cast it for you (party wizard, perhaps?) would suffice.

[noob]

Alternatively just use dimensional anchor and then use necrotic tumor(or any mind controlling way you like)
do that with back up like a bunch of skeletons readying an action to deal non lethal damage(with your turn pool+some animated outsiders you probably have enough dakka to stun the demon with only readied actions)
You might even just kill it and then animate more undead with its corpse.

[Segev]

Alternatively just use dimensional anchor and then use necrotic tumor(or any mind controlling way you like)
do that with back up like a bunch of skeletons readying an action to deal non lethal damage(with your turn pool+some animated outsiders you probably have enough dakka to stun the demon with only readied actions)
You might even just kill it and then animate more undead with its corpse.

I'm pretty sure outsiders don't leave corpses and can't become undead, unless Tenebrous is involved.

[noob]

I'm pretty sure outsiders don't leave corpses and can't become undead, unless Tenebrous is involved.

Can we do a trick with polymorph any object(pao it in an non outsider then kill it right after(before it can use the action to morph back) then animate it then dispel pao)

[RoboEmperor]

I'm pretty sure outsiders don't leave corpses and can't become undead, unless Tenebrous is involved.

Outsiders do leave corpses. Read the anatomy of a demon in Fiendish Codex I, and their death throes. Some of the death throes clearly state the deceased demon leaves their whole body, or parts of their body behind while their "essence" returns to the abyss. Also in the anatomy section the body of a dretch is fully dissected and analyzed even if its "essence" returned to the abyss.

Outsiders are dual natured. Only difference is that their body is made up of soul matter instead of physical matter.


Outside the Abyss: If a demon is killed on another plane, its body eventually returns to the Abyss—unless trapped through magical means, such as a dimensional anchor spell. (See the Demonic Death Throes sidebar for more details on how demon bodies sometimes disappear.) No matter what happens to the demon’s body, if it is killed outside the Abyss, its “essence” falls back into the raw chaos of the Abyss, where it is then be reformed as a new demon.

[Nifft]

I'm pretty sure outsiders don't leave corpses and can't become undead, unless Tenebrous is involved.

AFAICT the "no corpse" thing is always true for [Summoning] effects, but not [Calling] effects.

If you pore through some supplements...

- There's a monster in the Fiend Folio called an Abyssal Ghoul, which is an undead outsider.
- The BoVD has powerful material components like "yugoloth brain" and "demon heart".

... there's an implication that Outsiders can leave corpses -- but maybe that's only true if you visit them on their home planes. Plenty of room for interpretation.

[Venger]

I'm pretty sure outsiders don't leave corpses and can't become undead, unless Tenebrous is involved.

that's not a rule by virtue of type. outsiders sometimes can't be raised or resurrected, but that's not the same as being reanimated as an undead.

[Telonius]

How high is your UMD check? You could always just get it in Scroll form.

[Necroticplague]

that's not a rule by virtue of type. outsiders sometimes can't be raised or resurrected, but that's not the same as being reanimated as an undead.

If outsiders didn't leave corpses, the Revive Ohtsider spell we be somewhat difficult to cast (target: dead outsider touched).

Also, outsiders not being able to become undead would render the Lichfiend Lich variant (only for evil outsiders) utterly baffling.

[Venger]

If outsiders didn't leave corpses, the Revive Ohtsider spell we be somewhat difficult to cast (target: dead outsider touched).

Also, outsiders not being able to become undead would render the Lichfiend Lich variant (only for evil outsiders) utterly baffling.

Right, that's what I was saying. of course outsiders leave corpses.

[Yogibear41]

You simply have to use a different spell. Planar Ally is what you want. No circle necessary.

I don't want to spend the XP, to make a long story short, I am summoning a monster that can use Liquid pain as a SLA=standard action=lots of Liquid pain with one casting of binding. If I spent xp to do that I would be defeating the point of casting it to begin with.

[Venger]

I don't want to spend the XP, to make a long story short, I am summoning a monster that can use Liquid pain as a SLA=standard action=lots of Liquid pain with one casting of binding. If I spent xp to do that I would be defeating the point of casting it to begin with.

you must be intending to summon a kocrachon, then. you can snag him with lesser planar binding. if all you need from him is a liquid pain factory, mind controlling him through some means or another for indefinite servitude is pretty trivial. his will save sort of sucks, being only a +7, so with any effort at all invested into debuffing it, he can make as much liquid pain as you need for your crafting stuff. if you've got other spellcasters in your party, have them stand ready or just prepare yourself, it shouldn't be difficult.

[Yogibear41]

Yes, that was my intent, but even if you dominate it/some other form of mind control, won't he get ported back once the planar binding caster limit on days expires anyway?

[Venger]

Yes, that was my intent, but even if you dominate it/some other form of mind control, won't he get ported back once the planar binding caster limit on days expires anyway?

Just tell him to forgo his save when you call him again in x period of time and make sure it overlaps. Same as anything, once you fail a save vs mind control, it's pretty much game over.

[Segev]

Just tell him to forgo his save when you call him again in x period of time and make sure it overlaps. Same as anything, once you fail a save vs mind control, it's pretty much game over.

Well, as long as they don't get a bonus save for orders that cross certain lines.

And I doubt you can order them to voluntarily fail THOSE saves.

[Nifft]

Well, as long as they don't get a bonus save for orders that cross certain lines.

And I doubt you can order them to voluntarily fail THOSE saves.

Cleric: "Mr. Pitts, I want you to save those orphans..."

Pit Fiend: *picks up dice*

Cleric: "... in case we need spare sacrifices later."

Pit Fiend: *puts dice down*

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I was just looking at this:

Dragon Magazine #350 has the containment cloth (page 72) which has all four (permanent!) magic circle against C/E/G/Ls on it, so you don't have to cast that particular spell. 40,000 gp, but you should be able to get a substantial discount if you get one with just the two you want.

[edit] Also, I just realized another use for the acorn of far travel spell: an outsider can attune itself to another plane so it doesn't perma-die when killed on its own plane.