Let me get this right.

[Sornjss Lichdom]

Ok so teleportation only takes V components.

So if you have the metamagic feat Silent Spell, then making it a 6th lvl you can simpley activate it as a standard action, no talking, no material, and no hand gestures. So why wouldn't you use this if your about to break into a enamies castle, even if your bound, gag, and dont have axcess to material components. or any where really so if your trapped or struck deef, dumb and blind. You can still get away, so why isn't this used more often. Cause let me tell you, Sensory Depravation is a right pain if you fail your will save.

Theres an easy get away.

Im getting this right, right?

[Fax Celestis]

You are indeed. It's part of the exploitability that is Teleportation.

[ufo]

Just took a qucik read through 'Teleport' on the SRD. It seems that what you're saying is very possible, yes.

EDIT: Simu'd.

[Sornjss Lichdom]

ok cool, thought that would be super niffty. Always need that easy way out.

DM: All of the sudden the room becomes magically silent, and darkness fills the corners of the room. The tempature drops rabidly and you start to feel as if acid is eating into your enchanted clothing.

Fighter: &*#$

Cleric: $#@&%*

Rogue: &($%#

Bard: Double #@&%

Me: *Poof*

[Arbitrarity]

And at epic levels, get automatic still, silent, and quicken spell, as well as ignore material components.

*BOOOM!*

"What the **** was that?!"
"A fireball, clearly"
"You're the wizard, did you do it?!"
"Obviously not. Did you see me do anything?"

[Nerd-o-rama]

ok cool, thought that would be super niffty. Always need that easy way out.

DM: All of the sudden the room becomes magically silent, and darkness fills the corners of the room. The tempature drops rabidly and you start to feel as if acid is eating into your enchanted clothing.

Fighter: &*#$

Cleric: $#@&%*

Rogue: &($%#

Bard: Double #@&%

Me: *Poof*
This is exactly what Dimensional Anchor and Dimension Lock are for.

[Fax Celestis]

ok cool, thought that would be super niffty. Always need that easy way out.

DM: All of the sudden the room becomes magically silent, and darkness fills the corners of the room. The tempature drops rabidly and you start to feel as if acid is eating into your enchanted clothing.

Fighter: &*#$

Cleric: $#@&%*

Rogue: &($%#

Bard: Double #@&%

Me: *Poof*

...Sorry, this made me laugh. The temperature! It has rabies!

[RoboticSheeple]

also because every spell you ready in case you fail is one spell you didn't ready to help you succeed! :smallamused:

If you get to the point of being bound, gagged, and otherwise unable of casting spells you can be sure you'll be anchored too.

[psychoticbarber]

Also keep in mind that it's a 6th level spell, as said in the OP. You have to be at least 13th level to cast it. If you play die-hard from first level, that's a long way to go.

[Arbitrarity]

And in an AMF, because a 1 min/level duration on Dimensional anchor just isn't good enough. Dimensional shackles, on the other hand...

[Behold_the_Void]

Just remember, the concentration required for casting a spell is still readily evident. Anyone paying attention will see that you're entering the trance required to draw out the mystic power, and will probably try to stick a sword in you to stop it if they can (in the bound-and-gagged example, you won't be able to defensively cast as you're helpless).

[Grey Paladin]

Just remember, the concentration required for casting a spell is still readily evident. Anyone paying attention will see that you're entering the trance required to draw out the mystic power, and will probably try to stick a sword in you to stop it if they can (in the bound-and-gagged example, you won't be able to defensively cast as you're helpless).

":smalleek: : OM*G! That guy looks really focused! KILL HIM!"
:smallconfused:

[Creeps]

":smalleek: : OM*G! That guy looks really focused! KILL HIM!"
:smallconfused:

If I have an inkling of an idea that the guy is a wizard, you're bloody correct! If a guy who can shoot bolts of lightning out of his fingertips looks slightly *constipated*, you kill him. Dead. Twice.

Of course, I dm from the perspective that anyone with half a brain will kill the casters first.

[goat]

All wizards should have to wear pointy hats. It should be a basic component for all spells.

[Jasdoif]

":smalleek: : OM*G! That guy looks really focused! KILL HIM!"
:smallconfused:That's exactly right. Unless you also quicken that silent teleport, casting it still provokes an attack of opportunity.

Without verbal or somatic components, it's not obvious what you're doing, but it's obvious that you're doing something along the lines of casting a spell. The same holds for powers without display, or for spell-like and psi-like abilities.

[Arbitrarity]

AOO != CDG, and AOO != usable when flatfooted.

[Jasdoif]

AOO != CDGCorrect.


AOO != usable when flatfooted.Correct in the standard case, though Combat Reflexes appears to be a popular feat.

[Damionte]

Games been on the shelf for like a decade now, and you guys are just now figuring this one out?

[Arbitrarity]

Very true, though I doubt all guards happen to have it. Possible, Ok.

[Tokiko Mima]

And in an AMF, because a 1 min/level duration on Dimensional anchor just isn't good enough. Dimensional shackles, on the other hand...

Antimagic Fields aren't a very good solution, because they have a problem with instantaneous conjuration spells.


Source: Antimagic Field (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/antimagicField.htm)

The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.

So you can freely teleport inside/outside an AMF, drop walls of stone/iron/etc, or even plane shift. AMF even assures that you can teleport, because while it doesn't supress teleportation, it does supress the spells that prevent teleportation, like Dimensional Anchor and Lock.

[Arbitrarity]

Yeah, that'd be if not for that you can't cast spells in an antimagic field. Please tell me you are joking.
Likewise, it prevents the functioning of any magic items or spells within its confines.

An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it.

[Decoy Lockbox]

After playing a wizard quite a bit, I came to the realization that there are a lot of things you can do which would just piss the DM off and make the game less challenging. I'm not saying not to use teleport, but just don't abuse it to the point where the DM goes nuts. I think stoneshape has some of the same problems:

DM: In front of you lies the arcane door to the treasure room, but you do not yet have the key required to gain access

Me (as cleric): Are the walls made of stone?

DM: Yes

Me: Would it ruin this adventure if I just said "stoneshape! We enter the room"

Dm: .....yes

Me: Alright. Wont do it then, I guess.

It is true that DMs need to take teleportation and terrain altering spells into consideration when they plan adventures, but no DM can plan for everything. And it is in these moments when the player must restrain himself, for the good of the game.

[lukelightning]

A wizard's teleportation spell can easily be foiled with some simple iron or steel—inserted into the brain.

[Tokiko Mima]

Yeah, that'd be if not for that you can't cast spells in an antimagic field. Please tell me you are joking.

An antimagic field is not a magic "dead-zone." It's an area where almost all supernatural effects are supressed as soon as they begin. If there was no magic there it all, it would actually end the spell effects, and unsummon summoned creatures. As it is, assuming your summoned pet had adequate spell resistance, it could walk around in an AMF completely undisturbed. Could it do that if no magic existed there?

Spells can also be cast inside an AMF and effect other targets inside an AMF... but the effects are supressed until the effected target leaves the AMF. It's even possible to cast spells which modify how the AMF works from inside the AMF. For example an AMF can be ended by a spell like Disjunction (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magesDisjunction.htm) which you can cast while inside the AMF bringing the AMF's duration to an end prematurely.

Here's my justification of why AMF works this way in this case. When you deal with certain instantaneous effects, like instantaneous conjurations, you deal in magic that exists for such a short time (no time at all, really) that the AMF cannot suppress them because before the spell casting completed there is no magic invested to suppress. Then as soon as the spell completes the non-magical results are already there. A Wall of Iron is not in your AMF, then it instantly is inside your AMF with no inbetween state for an AMF to suppress. Teleports are similiar in this way: the mage stands there, invoking the arcane magic (which would be supressed the moment it had an effect, per the rules) and the moment the spell finishes, the mage is no longer there. There's no magical 'partially teleported' state.

That is my rationale, for what it's worth. Your quote is correct. However, instantaneous conjuration effects, by RAW, are clearly an exception to the rule you stated since they are literally listed as being an exception to the spells effect in the same spell description that you are quoting. Does that make sense?

[Fax Celestis]

That is my rationale, for what it's worth. Your quote is correct. However, instantaneous conjuration effects, by RAW, are clearly an exception to the rule you stated since they are literally listed as being an exception to the spells effect in the same spell description that you are quoting. Does that make sense?

Be more specific. In almost all cases you're referencing, the spells in question are Conjuration (Creation) spells, not Conjuration (Teleportation), or Conjuration (Healing), or Conjuration (Summoning) or otherwise. Creation spells create a nonmagical object or objects with magical energies, and thereby bypass an AMF because their resultant effect is nonmagical.

[Sornjss Lichdom]

Ya but in any good adventure you get caught to get back out, so your left alone for a bit to get a plan into action. And a standered action isn't that hard to pull off if your marching or somthing, and my char has skill focus (concentration), screw deffensive casting.

[Tokiko Mima]

Be more specific. In almost all cases you're referencing, the spells in question are Conjuration (Creation) spells, not Conjuration (Teleportation), or Conjuration (Healing), or Conjuration (Summoning) or otherwise. Creation spells create a nonmagical object or objects with magical energies, and thereby bypass an AMF because their resultant effect is nonmagical.

Isn't the result of a teleportation spell likewise non-magical? You couldn't be dispelled back into your point of origin, for example.

[Fax Celestis]

Isn't the result of a teleportation spell likewise non-magical? You couldn't be dispelled back into your point of origin, for example.

Kindasortanotreally. Creation doesn't move anything, it just makes a nonmagical object. Teleportation moves something from one place to another, without actually placing the item anywhere in between--something impossible but for magic.

Look, if it were up to me, antimagic field would have no exceptions and prevent casting from within; as it is, it's kinda a misnomer.

[Arbitrarity]

Wait, I can cast in an AMF? News to me. I suppose I could, but it would have no effect, being surpressed... Until the person moves. Huh.

Curse you NWN! Your dead-magic zone created my expectations for anti-magic! I.e. not being able to cast.

[Lavidor]

...what? Explain what you are talking about.
Edit: Directed at sornjss.

[Arbitrarity]

Technically Fax, IIRC, your teleport is routed through the Astral Plane somehow, and this allows you to travel faster or somesuch.

Of course... how one acesses the Astral without using magic is beyond me.

I can't.

[Tokiko Mima]

Kindasortanotreally. Creation doesn't move anything, it just makes a nonmagical object. Teleportation moves something from one place to another, without actually placing the item anywhere in between--something impossible but for magic.

Look, if it were up to me, antimagic field would have no exceptions and prevent casting from within; as it is, it's kinda a misnomer.

It causes something to appear where nothing was before. Teleportation from inside an AMF does the reverse, causing something to not exist where it existed before.

I understand the frustration on the lack of clarity for the AMF's parameters and description. No spell breaks D&D spell system quite the way AMF does. The whole difference between Spells, Spell-like abilities, Supernatural and Extraordinary abilities derives from attempting to solve this single enigma. You really could argue this either way, which means that a DM pretty much has to house-rule it as it comes up. :smallwink:

[Fax Celestis]

Usually how I houserule it is by adding the (Su) descriptor to any "Spellcasting" entry in a class' features.

[Tokiko Mima]

Usually how I houserule it is by adding the (Su) descriptor to any "Spellcasting" entry in a class' features.

That's a reasonable house-rule. I just state that the spells effect is to prevent anything magical from happening, and by that I mean anything that you wouldn't see on Planet Earth. If a creature/effect is obviously magical they are shunted outside, or uneffected if they make the SR check. Oh, and it's a 8th level spell for wizards and domain casters, 9th for clerics.

[Sornjss Lichdom]

Im saying that I dont take deffensive casting, its a waste, jsut get skill focuse (concentration) that way you get to you it all the time, as long as you make a concentration check.

[Arbitrarity]

You mean combat casting is a waste? Because anyone can defensively cast, it doesn't require a feat.

[Dausuul]

If I have an inkling of an idea that the guy is a wizard, you're bloody correct! If a guy who can shoot bolts of lightning out of his fingertips looks slightly *constipated*, you kill him. Dead. Twice.

Oh, hell, yeah! Constipated casters are dangerous, man! Haven't you ever watched "Conan the Destroyer?" They can set your brain on fire...


Of course, I dm from the perspective that anyone with half a brain will kill the casters first.

Well, obviously...

[Sornjss Lichdom]

ya combat casting my bad.

[Dhavaer]

Also keep in mind that it's a 6th level spell, as said in the OP. You have to be at least 13th level to cast it. If you play die-hard from first level, that's a long way to go.

11th level, actually. Or 12th, if you're a Sorcerer.

[Zeful]

According to the order of effects Anitmagic Field (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/antimagicField.htm) gives you can't cast any spells within a Antimagic Field.

Here's why I think that. Antimagic Field does the following:
Prevents the functioning of any magic items or spells within its confines

Surpresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area.

Time spent within the antimagic field counts against spell durations normally.

Summoned creatures of any type and incorporeal undead wink out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away. Time spent winked out counts normally against the duration of the conjuration that is maintaining the creature. If you cast antimagic field in an area occupied by a summoned creature that has spell resistance, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the creature’s spell resistance to make it wink out. (Exception: The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.)

Magic items have their powers surpressed but still retain whatever quality they had before enchantment. (A rod of python is still a masterwork quarterstaff for example) Golems and constructs can't use any supernatural, spell-like or spell abilities but fuction normally (Exception: Summoned golems or constructs are treated as normal summoned monsters.

Some spells are not effected by Antimagic field and are listed as such in their descriptions.

According to the placement of the instantaneous conjurations exception, it becomes clear that summoning them outside and pushing/throwing them inside the bounds of an Antimagic field is allowed, because the objects aren't kept there through magic, they will stay indefinatly.
However attempting to summon them within an antimagic field is not allowed because there is no listed exception to the "Prevents the functioning of any magic items or spells within its confines." and it is blanketed. The instantaneous conjurations exception is only for the, "Summoned creatures of any type and incorporeal undead wink out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away. Time spent winked out counts normally against the duration of the conjuration that is maintaining the creature. If you cast antimagic field in an area occupied by a summoned creature that has spell resistance, you must make a caster level check against the creature’s spell resistance to make it wink out," part of antimagic field.

So in conclusion, you cannot cast any spell within an antimagic field, period. You can however cast instantaneous conjurations before an antimagic field is cast or outside and have their effects enter the field because the summoned object is just moved by magic and will stay their indefinatly anyways.

[Sornjss Lichdom]

So if you were to try to enter into a Antimagic field with teleportation would it be like entering a brick wall or something, you take the damage and then move to the closest place available. At least thats how i see it, its like theres a solid wall to magic right there.

[Zeful]

Something like that, though you may be stranded in the astral untill the antimagic field's duration runs out.

[Thrawn183]

I thought that you couldn't cast in an anti-magic field and that conjuration [creation] only worked because you were magically creating mundane stuff and then somehow getting it into the AMF (orb of acid for example) whereas an ongoing magical effect like a summoning would be suppressed. :(

[Josh the Aspie]

Just remember, the concentration required for casting a spell is still readily evident. Anyone paying attention will see that you're entering the trance required to draw out the mystic power, and will probably try to stick a sword in you to stop it if they can (in the bound-and-gagged example, you won't be able to defensively cast as you're helpless).

No. Concentrating in that way does not mean you suddenly look like you're doing something.

If I'm standing in combat, and am dodging around, watching all of my opponents, and suddenly... stop dodging... and stare at something, or into space, I'm focusing on the concentration. This is indeed obvious. However until combat begins, I am not jumping and dodging around, paying that type of attention to my enemies. For all anyone knows, I'm just laying there slumped against the wall. I can concentrate slumped against the wall.

In real life, sometimes while paying rapt attention to someone that is speaking, I close my eyes, and let my head drop a little bit so that I can concentrate on them better. Other times, I just stare intently at their mouth. Other times I cant my head to one side... there are many things that are associated with me concentrating, and some of them can also seem entirely like signs of something else. Sometimes, I am intensely focused on an object in front of me, but it looks like I'm just lackadaisically staring off into space, or just sitting there bored.

The main indication of that 'focus' you're talking about is... that you're not doing something everyone is assuming you'd be doing.

And then... there's the concentration skill. DC 15+spell level not to provoke would be a pretty darn good way to prevent giving any sign you're casting.

[DaMullet]

One thing I haven't seen brought up that if I recall might end this debate is, that AMF blocks line of effect, except to note that a caster always has line of effect to himself.

You cannot cast any conjuration(anything) spells inside an AMF, but if they are cast Outside, their effects can live in harmony with it. That's my take on the wording.

[Curmudgeon]

Just remember, the concentration required for casting a spell is still readily evident. Anyone paying attention will see that you're entering the trance required to draw out the mystic power Well, maybe it's obvious that you're concentrating, but that's about it. You could just as easily be making a conscious Listen check to try to better pick up some noise that you heard indistinctly.

That you're actually casting a spell is indistinguishable from some other activity that has neither hand movements nor vocalizations.

[Tor the Fallen]

An antimagic field is not a magic "dead-zone." It's an area where almost all supernatural effects are supressed as soon as they begin. If there was no magic there it all, it would actually end the spell effects, and unsummon summoned creatures. As it is, assuming your summoned pet had adequate spell resistance, it could walk around in an AMF completely undisturbed. Could it do that if no magic existed there?

Actually, ANY summoned pet that walks into the field winks out. You only have to make the caster check if you cast the field and the pet's already there.

[Tokiko Mima]

Actually, ANY summoned pet that walks into the field winks out. You only have to make the caster check if you cast the field and the pet's already there.

I reiterate, this is another aspect of the spell that makes no sense. So, say I cast an AMF on top of a summoned succubi. The Succubi makes the SR/level check and doesn't wink out, but steps out of the field next round, then back inside. According your interpratation, it would wink out as it reentered. How much sense does that make, though, since it has resisted the AMF's effects already? Could my theoretical succubi use its spell-like abilities while still initially inside the AMF?

[Arbitrarity]

Don't you only check for SR once?

Like, walking into a Repulsion field, SR made, walk out, walk back in, still immune?

[Tokiko Mima]

Don't you only check for SR once?

Like, walking into a Repulsion field, SR made, walk out, walk back in, still immune?

Yes, what Tor the Fallen is saying (I believe) is that summoned creatures with SR who are outside the AMF when it's cast automatically wink out as they enter. You're only allowed to roll SR if you're a summoned creature inside the AMF when it's cast, and by inference if you exit you become subject to the spell again. Which I'm saying is more evidence that the spell description itself is broken, since it breaks the SR mechanic now, too.

[Arbitrarity]

Oh, right. I thought that you'd be immune to the spell when inside, and remain so after leaving, but since you don't get SR when entering, you actually don't. Whooaaa.


This shows that anti-magic makes less sense than magic, and thus, magic is a necessary part of the world, because the lack of it is riddled with illogic.

[Sornjss Lichdom]

nice ^ :-} ill have to remeber that the next time my DM wants to play no magic.

[Feralgeist]

or, if you wanna circumvent this apparent "OMFG IF HE IS INTERACTING WITH MAGIC HE MUST BE CONCETRATING SO HARD THAT I NOW SMELL POOP" just take the conceal spellcasting skill trick from complete scoundrel.