PDA

View Full Version : How many solars are there?

Kaiwen
2017-10-13, 07:06 PM
I think I remember reading a 1e or 2e book that showed exact numbers of the hierarchy of the good-aligned planes, including the number of solars, the various types of archons, et cetera. Can anyone tell me what book that was, and how many solars there are?

Nifft
2017-10-13, 07:45 PM
Which setting?

Tinkerer
2017-10-13, 07:52 PM
Which setting?

I think I might vaguely recall what they are talking about and if I do then I think Greyhawk?

Geodude6
2017-10-14, 01:55 AM
How many solars are there?

Well, how many do you want there to be?

Mr Beer
2017-10-14, 04:27 AM
The question is how many can dance on the head of a pin? So really you need to solve the solar/pin conundrum first, then how many pins do you have in the Seven Heavens.

Whyrocknodie
2017-10-14, 04:57 AM
2d4 of them, accompanied by 3d6 lesser celestials and 3d6 priests of various stripes. Unless it's in their lair, then you have 10d6 solars. One in every 10 will be a solar lieutenant with 8 extra HD and 2 better AC. One will be the chieftain with 16 extra HD and 3 better AC, plus one die of damage. Oh, and 10d6 noncombative solars.

viking vince
2017-10-14, 06:59 AM
Going from memory alone, I am pretty sure that the 1e MM2 states there are at least 24.

Mastikator
2017-10-14, 08:11 AM
Approximately 100-200 solars canonically.

Source: http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Solar_Exalted

noob
2017-10-14, 08:37 AM
Right now I see no solars.
So I guess that where I am there is no solars.

Nifft
2017-10-14, 08:38 AM
Going from memory alone, I am pretty sure that the 1e MM2 states there are at least 24.

Can confirm:

https://i.imgur.com/T49hmoK.png

Anonymouswizard
2017-10-14, 02:33 PM
Approximately 100-200 solars canonically.

Source: http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Solar_Exalted

IIRC there were originally 300 Solars, who were usurped by the Sidereals and stuck in the Jade Prison because they were coming close to selfishing the world to death via their Limit Breaks or something. Then when the Deathlords managed to break the Jade Prison 150 Solar Exaltations were stolen, 100 turned into Abyssals and 50 turned into Infernals.

Now, IIRC, Abyssals are a mixture between vampires and 'dark solars', and their castes are pretty much identical to Solar castes in concept, while the Infernals are further away. So you could theoretically still count it as 250 or even 300 Solars, but in practice it's only 150 Solars still remaining, unless the gods can remember how to create more Exaltations.

Anymage
2017-10-14, 03:23 PM
So you could theoretically still count it as 250 or even 300 Solars, but in practice it's only 150 Solars still remaining, unless the gods can remember how to create more Exaltations.

In E3, any god can create exaltations, although the cost is steep and they need Unconquered Sun's permission. (Or it might be that US has a huge stockpile of blank exaltations lying around somewhere, but they're crazy expensive to fill - the power drain is implied as one reason why the celestial incarnae haven't been as active since making their exalted.) But the power drain is the limiting factor instead of only having X amounts of toys to play with and never getting another.

Back to the D&D angels/aasimon/whatever, there are more than two. As practically divine beings, you shouldn't use them except as big named characters and should most likely have the same one as a recurring character instead of having new ones stop by regularly. (If you read the Dresden Files, Harry doesn't chat with random archangels. He's occasionally dealt with Uriel, though.) If you're looking for an upper limit to how many solars can power a good aligned wish farm, the answer is that a good aligned god has a chat with you about how his top agents have more important roles in maintaining the cosmos. If you're looking to have all the solars show up to show how big an event is, that's an event that only impresses a specific and narrow subset of players; those who know that a character is a big deal in the game's mythology, while also not realizing that the number doesn't mean much when the DM could fiat up a thousand times that number if the whim struck him.

Nifft
2017-10-14, 03:32 PM
In E3, any god can create exaltations, (...)
... but Solars are a sub-set of Exalts, and NOT just any god can create Solars.

Perhaps nobody can create more Solars ever again, even in Ex3.

Anonymouswizard
2017-10-14, 07:07 PM
... but Solars are a sub-set of Exalts, and NOT just any god can create Solars.

Perhaps nobody can create more Solars ever again, even in Ex3.

Yeah, as I understand it Exingents are more like special one of a kind Exaltations, or at least each is specifically created, as compared to the 'standard' Celestial Exaltations and the Terrestrial Exaltations (the latter as far as I can tell appear out of nowhere with the right bloodline).

FWIW, as far as I can remember you're not quite the same person after becoming an Exalted, due to having gained an additional soul, more of a mixture of your mortal identity and previous Exalted lives. But Exalted really isn't my kind of fantasy.

Nifft
2017-10-14, 07:18 PM
Yeah, as I understand it Exingents are more like special one of a kind Exaltations, or at least each is specifically created, as compared to the 'standard' Celestial Exaltations and the Terrestrial Exaltations (the latter as far as I can tell appear out of nowhere with the right bloodline).
It's not even that -- Solar Exalted are one type of Celestial Exalt -- there's also Lunar and Siderial, plus whatever they add in later Ex3 splat-books.

At the dawn of the First Age, the number of Celestial Exalted was exactly 700, of which 300 were Solars.

So it's a small and very specific number which can only go down as meta-plot happens.

And yeah the Exigents are special-yet-vague one-off things which aren't accounted for, but which also aren't Solars, so they're irrelevant for the pun which started this mild detour.

Anonymouswizard
2017-10-14, 07:59 PM
It's not even that -- Solar Exalted are one type of Celestial Exalt -- there's also Lunar and Siderial, plus whatever they add in later Ex3 splat-books.

At the dawn of the First Age, the number of Celestial Exalted was exactly 700, of which 300 were Solars.

So it's a small and very specific number which can only go down as meta-plot happens.

And yeah the Exigents are special-yet-vague one-off things which aren't accounted for, but which also aren't Solars, so they're irrelevant for the pun which started this mild detour.

Yeah, I know all this, but in terms of 'how Exaltations are made' I considered all Celestials equal, 700 Exaltations were mass produced eons ago and they get recycled as their holders die.

Anymage
2017-10-14, 11:21 PM
The implication of exigents is that older editions stance of "only this many, never any more" doesn't hold any more. New exaltations can be made. There's surely a reason why the celestial incarnae haven't made any more since. But the specific statement I was replying to, that the limit is that the gods can't remember how to make more exaltations (or the official 2e stance, that they required primordial made thingamajobs that nobody can get anymore) are demonstratably false.

Joe the Rat
2017-10-16, 02:42 PM
Can confirm:

https://i.imgur.com/T49hmoK.png

I doubt there are many more. The Cosmos can only handle so much of those fabulous sideburns.

Beleriphon
2017-10-16, 09:17 PM
I doubt there are many more. The Cosmos can only handle so much of those fabulous sideburns.

Is it just me or does that Solar look kind of Joaquin Phoenix?