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View Full Version : Clever Wordplay (Diplomacy) vs Student of Philosophy



Zhentarim
2017-10-13, 10:21 PM
I made a wispling for a pathfinder game, and I intend to be a conjurer. The problem is, my INT is 20, but my CHA is 5, and I interpret the "charisma" checks to influence creatures I call to mean the face skills. Am I correct, and, if so, is student of philosophy or clever wordplay (Diplomacy) better?

A wispling is a tiefling born to a halfling mother, so a wispling is just like a tiefling except small, and any alternate trait that involves humans involves halflings instead. They have the same variant heritages, but for this game, I took a vanilla tiefling.

Venger
2017-10-13, 11:45 PM
I made a wispling for a pathfinder game, and I intend to be a conjurer. The problem is, my INT is 20, but my CHA is 5, and I interpret the "charisma" checks to influence creatures I call to mean the face skills. Am I correct, and, if so, is student of philosophy or clever wordplay (Diplomacy) better?

A wispling is a tiefling born to a halfling mother, so a wispling is just like a tiefling except small, and any alternate trait that involves humans involves halflings instead. They have the same variant heritages, but for this game, I took a vanilla tiefling.

student of philosophy only affects bluff and diplo. it doesn't affect your cha checks for planar binding or whatever. between those two things, take student of philosophy since it gives the same benefit as clever wordplay, but also gives you bluff keyed off int.

bahamut920
2017-10-14, 12:05 AM
Pretty sure "Charisma check" means exactly that; you make a Charisma check, not a skill check. If you can sell the DM on allowing you to make a Bluff or Diplomacy check in place of the check listed in the spell, more power to you.

Unless you're planning on doing a lot of gathering information or feinting, Student of Philosophy seems like the better choice, like Venger said. It affects the usage your character is most likely to need of both skills, rather than covering all aspects of just one.

torrasque666
2017-10-14, 02:08 AM
If it calls out an ability, then it is only the ability modifier. In this case, its not using diplomacy/bluff/intimidate/etc, but the pure charisma modifier. Which for you will.... suck.

Zhentarim
2017-10-14, 09:26 PM
If it calls out an ability, then it is only the ability modifier. In this case, its not using diplomacy/bluff/intimidate/etc, but the pure charisma modifier. Which for you will.... suck.

Meh, I might need to move some stats around

Grimspawn tiefling could work, I guess

Kallimakus
2017-10-15, 03:43 AM
To be more clear, Clever wordplay changes one skill of your choice to key from Cha to Int instead. Student of Philosophy allows you to use Int in place of charisma on some subsets of two skills.

Eldariel
2017-10-15, 04:03 AM
You can however just brute force it. Especially later with Moment of Prescience, but even before then, buff yourself and debuff the enemy. And you can always Diplomacy and Bluff them while they're bound to make them more willing to help you, even willingly. Definitely Student of Philosophy.