Is the OotA paladin the weakest subclass of paladin?

[Klorox]

I thought they were pretty darn good, especially since they get misty step (one of my favorite spells).

The guys in my group all told me I was gimping my character if I choose this subclass for my paladin (this was all spitballing character ideas before a campaign begins).

What’s the general consensus?

[jaappleton]

Is it the best offensively? No. Not by a long shot.

It does, however, gets Moonbeam and Ice Storm. Aside from Crown's spell Spirit Guardians (A 3rd level spell, so Paladin 9 is required) it's the only one capable of dealing any decent AoE damage.

Its channel divinity is honestly a little on the weak side.

But its lv6 is freakin' AMAZING and is one of the best abilities in the game.

[Connington]

Solid spells, weak Channel Divinity options at Level 3 (which is probably what your group is thinking of), but probably the strongest Aura at level 6. You and everyone who stands near you gets RESISTANCE TO SPELL DAMAGE. Which means that spreading out to avoid enemy fireballs is no longer a concern. That's freaking amazing, and synergizes great with your Aura of Not Failing Saving Throws.

[Nifft]

Paladins all get Divine Smite, and Divine Smite is awesome.

OotA have some really great early spell options:
- Ensnaring Strike is great, and you can use it with a bow, which means you've got more tactical options than most Paladins
- Misty Step is great, and again gives you new tactics

The level 6 Aura of Protection is awesome on all Paladins.

Your special level 7 Aura is amazing: damage resistance from spells, 10 ft. radius. You & your allies are immune to fear of being in "fireball formation". It's one of the strongest options because it spits in the face of many common control tactics.

After that you get the generic Paladin perks: Aura of Courage, Improved Divine Smite, and the option of ignoring all that for 12 or 13 Sorcerer levels.


I love OotA.

[Naanomi]

If you only care about damage, it doesn't look great. But it is top notch for defenses and (for a Paladin) control. I put it as one of the best... something like: Ancients=Vengeance>Devotion>>Crown

[Asmotherion]

Paladins all get Divine Smite, and Divine Smite is awesome.

OotA have some really great early spell options:
- Ensnaring Strike is great, and you can use it with a bow, which means you've got more tactical options than most Paladins
- Misty Step is great, and again gives you new tactics

The level 6 Aura of Protection is awesome on all Paladins.

Your special level 7 Aura is amazing: damage resistance from spells, 10 ft. radius. You & your allies are immune to fear of being in "fireball formation". It's one of the strongest options because it spits in the face of many common control tactics.

After that you get the generic Paladin perks: Aura of Courage, Improved Divine Smite, and the option of ignoring all that for 12 or 13 Sorcerer levels.


I love OotA.

Exactly this. If anything, the only Paladin that feels a bit lacking in power from the PHB in my oppinion, is the Devotion Paladin.

Still, Different things are good for different playstyles. If what you're After is building a nice Gish that is both good at Deffending his allies against Magic and Physical Assults, and can deal a lot of Damage in some Short bursts, Oath of the Ancients is just what you're looking for. I'd also second Multiclassing into Sorcerer; This Booming/Green-Flame Blade on top of your Divine Smite will do Wonders to your DPT, and will always be avalable, even when you're out of spell slots. Quicken for both, or use Green Flame (and be a Fire-Dragon Sorcerer) to add your Charisma Modifier to Damage.

There's also a Cheap way to moonlight (not the spell) as a pseudo-Vengence Paladin, if you use a Polearm+Polearm Master, and your Choice of Booming Blade+War Caster (For extra Damage) or Sentinel (For a Lockdown). Use at your Option.

With Spell-Slots from Sorcerer, you'll have more uses of Divine Smite avalable to you, wich is also a Plus.

[Contrast]

Even if you think the spells/channel divinity options are weak, after level 7 I'd argue they were probably the best choice.

Prior to level 7, I'm not convinced that the difference is so significant that I'd let it sway your decision making process, If you like the theme/spells, go for it.

[SharkForce]

this is largely a meaningless question. all paladin subclasses are strong. some of them are undoubtedly slightly better than others. but they're all quite powerful, so who cares which one is a tiny bit stronger. there is no "gimped" paladin, unless you make some really odd choices like dump statting strength, dex, con, and cha in favour of int and wisdom.

[Klorox]

Exactly this. If anything, the only Paladin that feels a bit lacking in power from the PHB in my oppinion, is the Devotion Paladin.

Still, Different things are good for different playstyles. If what you're After is building a nice Gish that is both good at Deffending his allies against Magic and Physical Assults, and can deal a lot of Damage in some Short bursts, Oath of the Ancients is just what you're looking for. I'd also second Multiclassing into Sorcerer; This Booming/Green-Flame Blade on top of your Divine Smite will do Wonders to your DPT, and will always be avalable, even when you're out of spell slots. Quicken for both, or use Green Flame (and be a Fire-Dragon Sorcerer) to add your Charisma Modifier to Damage.

There's also a Cheap way to moonlight (not the spell) as a pseudo-Vengence Paladin, if you use a Polearm+Polearm Master, and your Choice of Booming Blade+War Caster (For extra Damage) or Sentinel (For a Lockdown). Use at your Option.

With Spell-Slots from Sorcerer, you'll have more uses of Divine Smite avalable to you, wich is also a Plus.

Two things:

1) what’s DPT?

2) unfortunately, booming blade has a range of 5’, which means it won’t work with polearms. Sucks, right?

[Naanomi]

2) unfortunately, booming blade has a range of 5’, which means it won’t work with polearms. Sucks, right?learn Booming Blade from Spell-sniper; solves the range issue as well

[Asmotherion]

Two things:

1) what’s DPT?

2) unfortunately, booming blade has a range of 5’, which means it won’t work with polearms. Sucks, right?

1) Damage per Turn

2) You can work around this with Spell sniper (doubles the range of your spells that have a Range) and/or Distant Spell Metamagic from being partially a Sorcerer. :)

PS: Or what Naanomi said, basically kill two birds with one stone, best solution.

[JackPhoenix]

learn Booming Blade from Spell-sniper; solves the range issue as well

Still, BB/GFB aren't that great on anyone with Extra Attack. You're better off attacking twice (smiting twice too, if you wish) and use the feat to get BA attack (we're already talking about using polearm, so Polearm Master is given).

[EvilAnagram]

Paladins all get Divine Smite, and Divine Smite is awesome.

OotA have some really great early spell options:
- Ensnaring Strike is great, and you can use it with a bow, which means you've got more tactical options than most Paladins
- Misty Step is great, and again gives you new tactics

The level 6 Aura of Protection is awesome on all Paladins.

Your special level 7 Aura is amazing: damage resistance from spells, 10 ft. radius. You & your allies are immune to fear of being in "fireball formation". It's one of the strongest options because it spits in the face of many common control tactics.

After that you get the generic Paladin perks: Aura of Courage, Improved Divine Smite, and the option of ignoring all that for 12 or 13 Sorcerer levels.


I love OotA.
I would like to add something, but I cannot.

[LudicSavant]

Order of the Ancients boasts a superb level 7 aura which turns something that is often a weakness for paladins (AoE spell damage on people grouped up in your aura) into a strength. It also has Misty Step, which you want, because it helps with another thing that is usually a weakness for paladins (getting kited or CCed). I suggest asking your friends why exactly they think that you're hurting yourself by choosing OotA.

[SharkForce]

Still, BB/GFB aren't that great on anyone with Extra Attack. You're better off attacking twice (smiting twice too, if you wish) and use the feat to get BA attack (we're already talking about using polearm, so Polearm Master is given).

ideally, you're using it with warcaster so that it's actually coming from your opportunity attack (and making it pack quite a punch).

also ideally, you're rolling for stats and your dice were loaded that day (or you have some insane stat-boosting magic items), because paladins are already quite MAD, and needing 3+ feats certainly doesn't help any :P

[Asmotherion]

Still, BB/GFB aren't that great on anyone with Extra Attack. You're better off attacking twice (smiting twice too, if you wish) and use the feat to get BA attack (we're already talking about using polearm, so Polearm Master is given).

It's Far better to BB/GFB as a Sorcerer, Divine Smite and then Quiken for an other one.

Also, BB/GFB are great, because they consume no spell slot, and deal pseudo-Divine Smite Damage once per turn, covering even cases when you're out of Spell Slots. If you're a Fire Dragon Sorcerer, GFB adds your Cha modifier to damage on top of Str, even on the initial attack, so it's basically more damage than two attacks. If you want, you can even take a nice combination of the True Strike Cantrip and Great Weapon Fighter, so that gives even more damage (alternative option for more damage oriented Build).

In any case, Extra Attack is less good than Quicken Spell, or even a simple Scag Cantrip if you're out of Spell slots to Divine Smite (aka, also out of Spell slots to Quicken), so in both cases I belive the Scag Cantrips to be Superior, unless you invest in enough Fighter Levels to get a 3rd attack.

[Waazraath]

I'll add to the chorus. Hell no, it isn't. It's a very good subclass, on a strong base class. No gimping the party to be seen anywhere.

[djreynolds]

Vow of enmity is awesome, but when you kill the BBEG in 2 rounds and for the rest of the battle... its gone. Still very strong

Sacred weapon is awesome, but it takes an action, so you have 9 rounds to use it and during that first round your wizard is getting throttled, for me I cast a smite spell here as my bonus action

Natures wrath... lets be honest, its choice of saves. I mean even that little goblin has a good chance breaking out

But moonbeam and misty step cannot be underrated, these are 2 very good spells at 5th level

Misty step is as good as your imagination IMO

Moonbeam is an effective ranged attack using your charisma basically. It does take an action is use, but it is good for a minute and but it does eat up your concentration. But since your dexterity is a 10 and your javelin only goes like 30ft, 120ft range and even 1d10 if they make their save.

Dimension door is 13th level, misty step is 5th so its not bad

But you have to ask yourself, does aura of warding make up for this? I think it does in spades

[JackPhoenix]

It's Far better to BB/GFB as a Sorcerer, Divine Smite and then Quiken for an other one.

Also, BB/GFB are great, because they consume no spell slot, and deal pseudo-Divine Smite Damage once per turn, covering even cases when you're out of Spell Slots. If you're a Fire Dragon Sorcerer, GFB adds your Cha modifier to damage on top of Str, even on the initial attack, so it's basically more damage than two attacks. If you want, you can even take a nice combination of the True Strike Cantrip and Great Weapon Fighter, so that gives even more damage (alternative option for more damage oriented Build).

In any case, Extra Attack is less good than Quicken Spell, or even a simple Scag Cantrip if you're out of Spell slots to Divine Smite (aka, also out of Spell slots to Quicken), so in both cases I belive the Scag Cantrips to be Superior, unless you invest in enough Fighter Levels to get a 3rd attack.

Let's see... Booming Blade on polearm does 1d10+3d8+5 (24) damage on average, with the possible 4d8 for 1 feat investment. The same polearm with the same feat investment (Polearm Master) does 2d10+10+1d4+5 (28.5) damage with bonus action, and possible 1d10+5 when the target gets close to you.

The extra attack + PAM not only has better damage, but as the enemy AC gets higher, it retains better chance to cause at least some damage, thanks to multiple attacks. And more attacks also means better chance for crit, which is great when combined with smite.

You're paying limited resources (sorcery points) for quicken, and multiclassing means you'll lose at least one ASI... Also delays your other abilities. If you take 2 levels of sorcerer, you have whole 2 sorcery points for one quicken per long rest, while the pure PAM paladin can do his thing all day long.

[mephnick]

Paladin subclasses could not exist and it would probably still be the best class in the game, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

I think Ancients and Crown are the best honestly, because they give you control options the others don't and good spells. Every Paladin can do huge damage purely from their base class features, so Devotion and Vengeance adding more damage seems really overrated to me. Ancients removes the single glaring weakness of banding together in close proximity, allowing you to reap all the benefits of class features like Protection etc without worrying about the inevitable Fireball or Cone of Cold. Pretty damn good if you ask me.

[JAL_1138]

Pretty much a rehash of what others have already said, but:

OotA's Channel Divinity is weak. They're not ideal for big hits with Great Weapon Master because they can't get Advantage or +Cha to hit like other Paladins. Sword-and-board is the better pick for them; the damage isn't as good, but the extra AC makes a hard-to-kill class even harder to kill, and Dueling style helps their damage a bit—or take Defensive instead for +1 AC on top of the shield and be even harder to hit; you have Smites anyway so +2 damage to two attacks from Dueling style isn't an absolute must. (EDIT: Shield Master can be good too if you're already using a shield anyway; knock enemies prone or push them with a bonus action if you attack during the round, and while you're not likely great at Dex saves, it has some great benefits there—save for none on AoEs and add shield AC to saves against single-target).
PAM for an extra attack as a bonus action is a solid option as well, although in this case it doesn't pair as well with GWM; Sentinel would work nicely though.

But their Oath spell list is pretty great, in comparison to the others—Oath of the Crown gets Spirit Guardians, which is arguably better than any individual spell Oath of the Ancients get, but the Ancients oath spell list on the whole is really good and adds a lot of things—a ranged control/damage option, a bit of AoE, and Misty Step, which is all kinds of useful for mobility. Protection from Energy, Stoneskin, and Ice Storm later on are great--Ice Storm deals less damage than a Fireball and costs a higher slot, but is a less-often-resisted type of damage and makes an area difficult terrain (which can even help control flying enemies, depending on how you read "the storm's area of effect," potentially forcing them to land or fall if they run out of movement and can't hover).

But the kicker is that Level 7 aura. Spell Resistance as an always-on, no-Concentration ally-AoE is FANTASTIC. It's hard to overstate how awesome it is. That's the main selling point for the subclass, really. It's the rough equivalent of a 4th or 5th level Concentration spell in power, and you just have it for free. It more than makes up for the Channel Divinity being on the weak side. And even the Channel Divinity has its applications (fey creatures like hags can be nasty opponents, and having a way to Turn them can be a lifesaver when it comes up; nobody else really has something to deal with them specifically.)

TL;DR: OotA does less damage (edit: but still good damage; it's not like they can't hit hard at all), but is AWESOME defensively and has great, versatile Oath spells. It's definitely not a weak subclass.


EDIT: On a broader note, don't panic about optimization in 5e. While your group is wrong about OotA being weak, it wouldn't really matter if they were right. Practically anything works fine if it has a reasonably-competent build. Don't overdo it with multiclassing or feats, and put your stats in the right places—you don't even need to hit 20, but you should shoot for at least 16 in your attack and casting stats by 8th, 18s after that—and you're probably going to be fine. Party composition matters more than optimization; e.g., a party of four Fighters may have problems since they have limited healing, utility casting, and AoE due to class, but in a party that has a good mix of roles covered, optimization isn't terribly vital. (It helps, sure, but it's not make-or-break necessary).

[Citan]

I thought they were pretty darn good, especially since they get misty step (one of my favorite spells).

The guys in my group all told me I was gimping my character if I choose this subclass for my paladin (this was all spitballing character ideas before a campaign begins).

What’s the general consensus?
That your group clearly does not know their game, maybe because they focus too much on damagedamagedamagedamage.... (broken mind).

It's in fact the arguably best or second best (depending on taste) if you take everything into account.
Ensnaring Strike is much better as a controllish "smite spell" than normal options of that level, and works also on thrown/ranged attacks.

CD1 targets STR or DEX save, at the choice of creature, so it's obviously not great against anyone (like any spell to be honest), but it's non concentration.
CD2 can be extremely good in a pinch, because while encountering fey may be rare, they often possess annoying features. Forcing them to run away with Dash action can really save your life at times. ;)

Moonbeam allows you to greatly help controlling an area whenever there are little casters in your team or none of them can provide battlefield spell at the moment. Same with Plant Growth later (which is non-concentration, so both combined make a very potent mix).
Mysty Step and Protection from Energy well no need to explain. ;)

Aura of Warding halves the damage of any magic effect for you (and everyone around 10 feet / 30 feet at 18 level).
This is the most versatile and beneficial Oath Aura of alls, leagues beyond others unless specific settings:
- Vengeance lvl 7 is, let's say situational to stay polite.
- Devotion is great but many races have advantage against charmed or frightened already, some classes have built-in safeguards too.
- Oathbreaker is nasty but "only" adds damage on your melee attacks and those of nearby undead..
- Crown is very nice for tanking but uses your reaction (which you could also use on Protection) and is taxing for your own health.
- Ancients? Whatever save is targeted, any spell dealing damage that you would fail to avoid in spite of Aura of Protection will still see its damage halved, whatever its nature. It's like permanent Warding Bond. ;)

Don't remember the level 15 benefit...
But the level 20 incredibly increase your resilience and impose disadvantage against your paladin spells for close-by enemies.

In short, it enhances some of the core Paladin's strengths (resilience, debuff spells) while broadly expanding its tactical options.
You really can't best that. ;)



I think Ancients and Crown are the best honestly, because they give you control options the others don't and good spells. Every Paladin can do huge damage purely from their base class features, so Devotion and Vengeance adding more damage seems really overrated to me. Ancients removes the single glaring weakness of banding together in close proximity, allowing you to reap all the benefits of class features like Protection etc without worrying about the inevitable Fireball or Cone of Cold. Pretty damn good if you ask me.
Nice way of summarizing, should have read before posting... ^^



The extra attack + PAM not only has better damage, but as the enemy AC gets higher, it retains better chance to cause at least some damage, thanks to multiple attacks. And more attacks also means better chance for crit, which is great when combined with smite.

You're paying limited resources (sorcery points) for quicken, and multiclassing means you'll lose at least one ASI... Also delays your other abilities. If you take 2 levels of sorcerer, you have whole 2 sorcery points for one quicken per long rest, while the pure PAM paladin can do his thing all day long.
Some true and some false here.
Let's start with the false...
1) You need at least 3 levels of Sorcerer to get Metamagic.
2) Technically, since you can convert slots into SP, you could use the Quicken cantrip thing at the very least half-a-dosen times per day. Although with only 3 levels of Sorcerer it would be very tedious.

Now with the true.
Yes, it does eat much resources to do so, even more compared to an extra attack that is permanent (although with lesser die).
Yes, as long as you want to smite and still have slots for it, having more attacks is obviously better.

Now with the half-true
Yes, whenever your primary objective is to deal "at least some" damage, having more attacks should be objectively better...
But in comparing plain output of Extra Attack + PAM vs 2 cantrips a turn (putting aside resource cost), you are forgetting several things here.
First, damage increases on cantrips.
Second, all Paladins have ways to increase their to-hit, with the primary one being Blessing themselves.

So I have no time to make detailed maths right now, but I'm pretty sure that while martial way trumps magic way until 5th, both are on par up until 17th, where magic trumps again. ;)
Not 100% sure though since didn't do the maths.

[JackPhoenix]

Some true and some false here.
Let's start with the false...
1) You need at least 3 levels of Sorcerer to get Metamagic.
2) Technically, since you can convert slots into SP, you could use the Quicken cantrip thing at the very least half-a-dosen times per day. Although with only 3 levels of Sorcerer it would be very tedious.

Now with the true.
Yes, it does eat much resources to do so, even more compared to an extra attack that is permanent (although with lesser die).
Yes, as long as you want to smite and still have slots for it, having more attacks is obviously better.

Now with the half-true
Yes, whenever your primary objective is to deal "at least some" damage, having more attacks should be objectively better...
But in comparing plain output of Extra Attack + PAM vs 2 cantrips a turn (putting aside resource cost), you are forgetting several things here.
First, damage increases on cantrips.
Second, all Paladins have ways to increase their to-hit, with the primary one being Blessing themselves.

So I have no time to make detailed maths right now, but I'm pretty sure that while martial way trumps magic way until 5th, both are on par up until 17th, where magic trumps again. ;)
Not 100% sure though since didn't do the maths.

Right, sorcery points are from level 2, metamagic from level 3, my bad.

However, converting spell slots to sorcery points is very ineffective for a paladin. You can turn level 1 spell slot into another cantrip, but it means one less smite (and smite can't miss, and you can guarantee it crits) or bless. Average adventuring day should have about 20 rounds of combat, and you simply do not have enough spell slots and sorcery points to to the double BB thing all time. You get few slightly better bursts, you'll be worse off for the rest of the day, and you'll waste some resources on misses. You'll also have at least one less ASI (assuming the game gets to level 20, if not, your class features are still 3 levels behind) that the pure paladin can use to either increase his attributes (multiclassed paladin can't reach Str/Cha 20 and have Spell Sniper at the same time unless its vuman) or grab extra feat... say, GWM, which increases the DPR even more in pure paladin's favor.

Now, where it works is paladin 2/sorcerer 18, because you'll get more spell slots, however, you'll lose on durability and paladin goodies. And at that point, you aren't really a paladin.

[JellyPooga]

To add something new to the discussion; the actual Oaths themselves. Vengeance has the whole "at any cost" deal going on, giving it a lot of freedom so long as you can justify the ends of your actions. This could be viewed as the "best" Oath because it allows for other party members to act more or less as they wish without the Paladin getting all up in their grill about being non-Good. Ancients, on the other hand, is probably the vaguest Oath; it's basically "do good", which shouldn't be much of a problem assuming you're playing a Good character of some flavour. For a party that wants to murderhobo, or otherwise stray into neutral to evil territory, this could be seen as a problem. Devotion and Crown are both much more restrictive and potentially more problematic, depending on how seriously you as a Player take them.

To take the side of the OPs party, Ancients Paladin could be seen as "gimped" if;
A) they don't expect to get to level 7+
B) they don't expect to encounter many spellcasters
C) they expect the Paladin to be nothing but a DPR-engine.

[Tanarii]

Why are people touting Moonbeam using up a bonus oath spell like its a good thing? It's a pretty sub-par spell, one of those spells that sounds good on paper but generally isn't worth a second level slot in practice.

And that's just for Druids, they can get some use out of it because they have limited options. Paladins have far better things to do with their spell slots and actions.

[jaappleton]

Why are people touting Moonbeam using up a bonus oath spell like its a good thing? It's a pretty sub-par spell, one of those spells that sounds good on paper but generally isn't worth a second level slot in practice.

And that's just for Druids, they can get some use out of it because they have limited options. Paladins have far better things to do with their spell slots and actions.

Because its basically the only concentration spell for repeatable damage at 2nd level.

It's a 5' radius, but if you're playing on a grid (or mental grid), dropping it into the center of:

X X
X X

where X is an enemy, you're hitting all 4. Now, of course, a damage dealing 2nd level spell is actually effective for its level for a full caster and not so much for a half caster, that's absolutely true, but given how AoE is a glaring weakness in the Paladin's arsenal, we'll all take what we can get.

[Foxhound438]

The CD is bad but the rest is way better than any other oath. And CD is at most 1 per fight so even the oh so amazing vengeance guys lose out after felling one target. Advantage vs targets is easy for ancients to get anyways thanks to ensnaring strike.

[Foxhound438]

Why are people touting Moonbeam using up a bonus oath spell like its a good thing? It's a pretty sub-par spell, one of those spells that sounds good on paper but generally isn't worth a second level slot in practice.

And that's just for Druids, they can get some use out of it because they have limited options. Paladins have far better things to do with their spell slots and actions.

It's because its a more than adequate ranged damage source, plus free continual damage if your party has a thing gridlocked.

[Citan]

Right, sorcery points are from level 2, metamagic from level 3, my bad.

However, converting spell slots to sorcery points is very ineffective for a paladin. You can turn level 1 spell slot into another cantrip, but it means one less smite (and smite can't miss, and you can guarantee it crits) or bless. Average adventuring day should have about 20 rounds of combat, and you simply do not have enough spell slots and sorcery points to to the double BB thing all time.

Well, that's exactly the thing: it's not necessarily true.
It obviously true at lower levels.

But let's consider this: 1st level slot = 2d8 radiant damage (average 9) = 1 SP.
Quicken = 2 SP so you need to sacrifice an average of 9 damage.

We talk about a character that is at least Paladin 5 / Sorc 3 right? Obviously GWM is out of the way since you are concerned about accuracy, so let's take the good old quarterstaff or other 1d8 weapon.

GreenFlame Blade = (1d8+3+1d8)+(1d8+3). Let's put weapon damage out of the way, there is 1d8+1d8+3 left for an average of 12.
Booming Blade = (1d8+3+1d8)+ 2d8. Again, let's remove weapon damage, so 3d8 for an average of 13,5.

So... What Asmotherion said is confirmed but a bit lackluster, since you need to blow two smites for one quicken.

Things will get better at level 11 though.
Added magic effect is now: GFB: another +9 average, total average 21. BB, same now total average 22,5.

Now not only is Asmotherion's hypothesis confirmed, but it's also looking better than smite.

If character reaches 17 level, now average would amount to
average 30 and 31,5 respectively.

Of course, these numbers account for proper conditions being reunited (having another nearby creature for GFB, creature moving for BB). But I don't see why you would use either if you consider conditions aren't met in the first place.

Besides, unless you are in a game in which DM allows for PAM extra attack while wielding a shield (even if it's technically RAW, many DM won't allow it)...
PAM for a no-shield Paladin actually provides absolutely no benefit as far as extra attacks are concerned: any Paladin, like any character, can just go two-weapon fighting when needed: sure you deal less damage, but if you just want to smite that's enough, no feat required. Better take Sentinel if you want to improve reaction triggers.

Also, note that I followed you by politeness, but converting 1st level spells is not a good idea, precisely because you can use them on Bless.

Let's do it again: 2nd level slot = 3d8 radiant = 13,5 average = 2 SP. So by burning 2nd level slots, you make the ratio towards Quicken much better, earlier in your progression.

Finally, there is absolutely no feat involved in the BB/GFB to make it work, so it's another plus for it. Or, if you take Warcaster, it means you have chances to deal as much damage as Quicken without actually paying it since it's off-turn.

The point is: unless you want pure damage and can expect a crit, for a nova encounter, Quicken Booming Blade / GreenFlameBlade can be much better than PAM, especially once you are Paladin 6-7 / Sorcerer 4-5+.
Especially if you are the kind of people that would usually wait for a crit to activate divine smite (aka you never know when you will really go full-on). This tactic gives you a reliable amount of damage to inflict without hoping for crit and while using a very reasonable amount of resources.

[JellyPooga]

Why are people touting Moonbeam using up a bonus oath spell like its a good thing? It's a pretty sub-par spell, one of those spells that sounds good on paper but generally isn't worth a second level slot in practice.

And that's just for Druids, they can get some use out of it because they have limited options. Paladins have far better things to do with their spell slots and actions.

Moonbeam sub-par? Woah. I probably rate it higher than most because of its potential, but Moonbeam is a great control spell that can do a lot of damage in the right circumstances.

[Tanarii]

It's a 5' radius, but if you're playing on a grid (or mental grid), dropping it into the center of:
X X
X X
where X is an enemy, you're hitting all 4. Like I said, good on paper. But in actual play you're typically able to get two enemies with it on turn one, and 1 on each turn after. Unless ...


It's because its a more than adequate ranged damage source, plus free continual damage if your party has a thing gridlocked.
Otoh getting something 'gridlocked' without grapple is often hard ... for a non-Druid / non-Ancients Paladin. So that is actually a very good point. It combos well with hard movement control.

For a second level AoE spell it's not decent damage. What it does have going for it, unlike Flaming sphere (which affects more enemies/a bigger area, and occupies space), is enemies will take damage. They can't just walk away from it or past it.

Anyway, the gridlocked thing definitely wasn't something I had considered. I do see it used that way, just not all the time, and my most recent experiences with the spell have been with it actually getting in the way of PCs wanting to pursue the fleeing enemy. That biased me against it.

[Foxhound438]

Otoh getting something 'gridlocked' without grapple is often hard ... for a non-Druid / non-Ancients Paladin. So that is actually a very good point. It combos well with hard movement control.

For a second level AoE spell it's not decent damage. What it does have going for it, unlike Flaming sphere (which affects more enemies/a bigger area, and occupies space), is enemies will take damage. They can't just walk away from it or past it.

Anyway, the gridlocked thing definitely wasn't something I had considered. I do see it used that way, just not all the time, and my most recent experiences with the spell have been with it actually getting in the way of PCs wanting to pursue the fleeing enemy. That biased me against it.

That's definitely understandable. And honestly if there was a paladin that got access to flame sphere I'd probably give it a try just for that. Or spiritual weapon.

[Arkhios]

Echo: "Hell no!"

Seriously though, the Channel Divinities are a bit on the weak side, but in the right circumstances, even they can do wonders.

Aura of Warding, pure gold! Who wouldn't want an ally that you can "hug" in tight spaces and not fear as much for those destructive AoE spells.

An option to not die once per long rest? Sign me up!

The capstone is crazy good! Too bad it's rare occasion that you get to play at those levels, but heck, if you do...!!

[Citan]

Like I said, good on paper. But in actual play you're typically able to get two enemies with it on turn one, and 1 on each turn after. Unless ...


Otoh getting something 'gridlocked' without grapple is often hard ... for a non-Druid / non-Ancients Paladin. So that is actually a very good point. It combos well with hard movement control.

For a second level AoE spell it's not decent damage. What it does have going for it, unlike Flaming sphere (which affects more enemies/a bigger area, and occupies space), is enemies will take damage. They can't just walk away from it or past it.

Anyway, the gridlocked thing definitely wasn't something I had considered. I do see it used that way, just not all the time, and my most recent experiences with the spell have been with it actually getting in the way of PCs wanting to pursue the fleeing enemy. That biased me against it.
Well, consider that an Ancients Paladin that decides to use it as often as possible has many options to do so...
With Shield Master he could Shove one people while Grappling and Shoving one other.
With Sentinel he can stop keep one people right in its track for a while.
With Magic Initiate or Sorcerer/Warlock dip and possibly Warcaster he can try to keep them from moving with Booming Blade.

It's much better on a Land Druid though, although more costly obviously: cast Plant Growth, cast Moonbeam, then use Thorns Whip to "shepherd" enemies into the casting area while yourself moving freely into the Plant Growth area... ;)

The real bad thing of Moonbeam is that it uses action to be moved, so in practice if you are all alone this is probably not the best combo to use. ;)
With just one Monk or Rogue besides you though (or yourself multiclassing into Rogue/Sorcerer/EK for bonus action goodies), it can quickly add up damage.

Note that I don't suggest this PG+MB on Paladin because he has too few spell slots to my taste, but it can work wonders too if you don't mind having your own speed reduced to 1/4 of normal: shoved enemies will be basically unable to move, since standing up takes half your whole speed, and most enemies like party characters have 30 feet. Prone > Standing up takes 15 feet. 15 feet left. 15/4=3.75, which is inferior to 5 feet: whether you play on grid or not, they won't be able to move away from Moonbeam area.

So same as with Land Druid, having an Ancients Paladin multiclassed into Sorcerer or Warlock (or both ;)), with an Expertise grabbed from anywhere you can (or Enhance Ability provided by someone else) will make you a hell of a great tank, even at higher levels (of course don't expect it to work on big creatures like dragons or the like ^^).

Besides that, anyone with Ray of Frost or Web can help you greatly too. ;)

[EvilAnagram]

I think it's worth pointing oht that most persistent, damaging AoE spells have very small areas this edition, which necessitates working together to get their full effect. Cloud of Daggers comes to mind. The fact is that when multiple characters work together on them, it's extremely useful, especially when dealing with creatures that have resistances to nonmagical damage. A barbarian might not have anything better to do other than hold the wereboar in the zone, and that's a solid strategy.

[Biggstick]

"Reasonable justifications as to say why a Sorcadin has more consistent damage then a single-classed Paladin."

I mean, let's do some real calculations. We're going to go with the assumption here that both versions of this OotA Paladin have similar stats, and are level 11.

Assumption: 18 Strength, 16 Charisma, rest of the stats are irrelevant. Feat choice includes PAM for the full Paladin and Warcaster for the Sorcadin. Fighting style will be Defense for all, to keep math a bit easier.

I'm also going to include both the 1h Quarterstaff and Shield, and the 2h Polearm for the single-classed Paladin within these calculations, as any world in which a DM allows a Paladin to multiclass with Sorcerer, they're going to probably allow using a Quarterstaff with one hand and a Shield.

Quarterstaff and Shield full Paladin
Turn 1 attack rolls: Attack action, plus Improved Divine Smite. Bonus action attack from PAM, plus Improved Divine Smite
Turn 1 damage rolls: 2d6+8, +2d8. 1d4+4, +1d8. Average damage = 35 on Turn 1.
Turn 1 potential reaction attack rolls: Attack action from PAM, plus Improved Divine Smite.
Turn 1 potential reaction damage rolls: 1d6+4, +1d8. Average damage = 12 on Turn 1.

This is repeatable forever. It costs nothing, and generates a much more consistent reaction opportunity attack then simply having Warcaster. Having PAM will more consistently trigger the opportunity attack for this Paladin. Total average damage per turn if all goes according to plan = 47 damage.

Sword and Board Sorcadin (OotA Pal 7//Sorc 4)
Turn 1 attack rolls: Attack action. Bonus action Quicken BB.
Turn 1 damage rolls: 2d8+8. 1d8+4, +2d8, +3d8 if they move. Average damage = 33.5 on Turn 1 if they don't move, and 47 if they do.
Turn 1 potential reaction attack rolls: Booming Blade from Warcaster.
Turn 1 potential reaction damage rolls: 1d8+4, +2d8, +3d8 if they move. Average damage = 17.5 on Turn 1 if they don't move from their new position, and 31 if they do.

This is a pretty large amount of damage. However, it requires situations that are a bit more favorable to the character in question, as well as costs 2 Sorcery Points per turn that you run it. Now this isn't necessarily going to be something you can run every round in combat, but you'll probably be able to use it for a good portion of the day if you don't spend spell slots on anything but Divine Smite on critical hits and converting spells into Sorcery Points. Note that you do lose a bit of damage on turns you choose to convert points. Overall, you do more damage, but the conditions required for this additional damage doesn't make me value it as highly as the standard PAM build. Total average damage per turn if all goes according to plan = 78 damage.

2h Polearm (1d10) full Paladin
Turn 1 attack rolls: Attack action, plus Improved Divine Smite. Bonus action attack from PAM, plus Improved Divine Smite
Turn 1 damage rolls: 2d10+8, +2d8. 1d4+4, +1d8. Average damage = 39 on Turn 1.
Turn 1 potential reaction attack rolls: Attack action from PAM, plus Improved Divine Smite.
Turn 1 potential reaction damage rolls: 1d10+4, +1d8. Average damage = 14 on Turn 1.

While the damage doesn't necessarily increase too much from the Quarterstaff option, it at least gives you the impression of damage potential. This is probably a character that would consider GWM on it's following ASI to massively increase it's damage per turn (with the normal calculations done here, you could simply add 40 to the average damage I'm presenting at the end of this paragraph). Total average damage per turn if all goes according to plan = 53 damage.

So while the Sorcadin does have the potential for a higher damage output if certain conditions are met by actions the enemy takes, those types of things are hard to count on consistently occurring. I would take the more consistent reaction attack created through PAM and a full Paladin build over the less consistent (from my experiences), but higher damage path and combat expectations a Sorcadin requires to be more effective.

[Biggstick]

In regard to the OP's Question, it's as most of the other people in this thread have said. It depends on your campaign as to which Oath will be most effective, but all the Oaths are generally great.

Now I will say, Oath of Devotion might be a little less effective against creatures that aren't Undead or Fiends, but the same could be said for Oath of the Ancients and spell casters. Your choice of Oath should be something you communicate with the DM, as the DM might want to involve things that have nothing to do with one Oath and be pretty weak against another Oath.

[Citan]

While the damage doesn't necessarily increase too much from the Quarterstaff option, it at least gives you the impression of damage potential. This is probably a character that would consider GWM on it's following ASI to massively increase it's damage per turn (with the normal calculations done here, you could simply add 40 to the average damage I'm presenting at the end of this paragraph). Total average damage per turn if all goes according to plan = 53 damage.

So while the Sorcadin does have the potential for a higher damage output if certain conditions are met by actions the enemy takes, those types of things are hard to count on consistently occurring. I would take the more consistent reaction attack created through PAM and a full Paladin build over the less consistent (from my experiences), but higher damage path and combat expectations a Sorcadin requires to be more effective.
This is well presented maths, but you specifically chose a level at which full Paladin has a boost. Maths would be pretty different just in the few previous levels, as well as a few levels after: Sorcadin can also get IDS in the end, or more fuel to use Quicken consistently. And as you demonstrated yourself, Sorcadin can use Quicken whatever he does with his action, whereas PAM Paladin HAS to Attack to get bonus action attack. So Sorcadin has much more flexibility: when you want 3 attacks, you can get them. When you want only 2 attacks, you can get them too.

Furthermore, as I demonstrated in previous post, just the direct added damage from Booming Blade's weapon attack (3d8) ultimately ends as equal to a 2nd level slot spent on Divine Smite (3d8), only difference being that it's thunder instead of radiant, which makes it lesser against some enemies.
So when you consider long-term return on investment, even if enemy would not act as you want, blowing a 2nd level slot on Quicken...
- Is a costly investment until char level 5
- Is a significant but either slightly lesser or better than PAM+smite depending on how enemy acts until level 11...
- Is a very competitive investment from level 11 onwards (just slightly under is enemy don't move, significantly better if it moves).
- Becomes an objectively net win at 17th level, whatever way you built your character (= whether you went Paladin 11+, meaning IDS, or Sorcerer 11+, meaning more high level slots to smite AND more low level slots for Quicken).

Also, you focus on sustained damage which I understand perfectly well, ;) but in doing that you put aside the other strength of the Sorcadin, which will have an overall higher casting level, so better slots. That makes a difference as far as nova rounds goes.
Obviously this is not an appealing argument to you since you prefer guaranteeing sustained damage, but some people like to nova. :)

Finally, you make an assumption which I find non-objective: the fact that Sorcading will always pick Warcaster.
While it makes it much easier to cast Sorcerer spells, as far as BB/GFB go, you don't need it at all. And you get those cantrips naturally when picking Sorcerer.
Plus I'd argue that if you use Booming Blade during your own turns, for that enemy you hit with, it kinda works against triggering OA so for Warcaster to be reliably worth you have to be smart enough to keep at least 2 enemies close by...
So, in short, Warcaster can be nice but is absolutely unnecessary for the base tactic.

So if you want to build a real melee-geared Sorcadin and as such prefer having more often reaction attacks, you can perfectly pick Polearm Master and use that as your mundane tactic, only using the Quicken trick when it really makes a difference.
That way you have exactly the best of both worlds.

[Biggstick]

This is well presented maths, but you specifically chose a level at which full Paladin has a boost. Maths would be pretty different just in the few previous levels, as well as a few levels after: Sorcadin can also get IDS in the end, or more fuel to use Quicken consistently. And as you demonstrated yourself, Sorcadin can use Quicken whatever he does with his action, whereas PAM Paladin HAS to Attack to get bonus action attack. So Sorcadin has much more flexibility: when you want 3 attacks, you can get them. When you want only 2 attacks, you can get them too.

Furthermore, as I demonstrated in previous post, just the direct added damage from Booming Blade's weapon attack (3d8) ultimately ends as equal to a 2nd level slot spent on Divine Smite (3d8), only difference being that it's thunder instead of radiant, which makes it lesser against some enemies.
So when you consider long-term return on investment, even if enemy would not act as you want, blowing a 2nd level slot on Quicken...
- Is a costly investment until char level 5
- Is a significant but either slightly lesser or better than PAM+smite depending on how enemy acts until level 11...
- Is a very competitive investment from level 11 onwards (just slightly under is enemy don't move, significantly better if it moves).
- Becomes an objectively net win at 17th level, whatever way you built your character (= whether you went Paladin 11+, meaning IDS, or Sorcerer 11+, meaning more high level slots to smite AND more low level slots for Quicken).

Also, you focus on sustained damage which I understand perfectly well, ;) but in doing that you put aside the other strength of the Sorcadin, which will have an overall higher casting level, so better slots. That makes a difference as far as nova rounds goes.
Obviously this is not an appealing argument to you since you prefer guaranteeing sustained damage, but some people like to nova. :)

Finally, you make an assumption which I find non-objective: the fact that Sorcading will always pick Warcaster.
While it makes it much easier to cast Sorcerer spells, as far as BB/GFB go, you don't need it at all. And you get those cantrips naturally when picking Sorcerer.
Plus I'd argue that if you use Booming Blade during your own turns, for that enemy you hit with, it kinda works against triggering OA so for Warcaster to be reliably worth you have to be smart enough to keep at least 2 enemies close by...
So, in short, Warcaster can be nice but is absolutely unnecessary for the base tactic.

So if you want to build a real melee-geared Sorcadin and as such prefer having more often reaction attacks, you can perfectly pick Polearm Master and use that as your mundane tactic, only using the Quicken trick when it really makes a difference.
That way you have exactly the best of both worlds.

So right out the gate, a Sorcadin using PAM would also require Warcaster and Spell Sniper to use BB on an enemy who's approaching within the 10' reach. This is three feats with only 5 ASI's. At best, you're looking at a Human who uses the starting feat on PAM, and the following two ASI's being Warcaster and Spell Sniper. This means 3 ASI's to boost Strength or Charisma, and they're going to be most likely be taken at level 12 or higher depending on how you split your multiclass.

I do make the assumption that a Sorcadin is taking Warcaster. The only Sorcadin that isn't taking Warcaster is one that is using a 2h weapon, as they have hands free to cast the Shield spell. One of the biggest strengths of the class is having such a high potential base AC, along with spells like Blur and the Shield spell to make it near impossible to hit the Sorcadin. To have such a high AC, using a shield is pretty standard. All this is moot though if you're one of the few who advocates for Sorcadins using 2h weapons.

It's hard for me to see why you wouldn't want Warcaster on a Sorcadin. Another of it's biggest strengths is that it usually makes it's opportunity attacks with a BB. Anyways, on to the next point.

I will absolutely concede the Sorcadin having higher burst. Only a fool would argue they don't. But I see all those spell slots that a Sorcadin has, and I see many slots (6th and above) not really serving a purpose for a Divine Smiting Sorcadin. Sure, they're great for upcasting regular spells, but 6th level and above spell slots don't do anything that a 5th level spell slot wouldn't do in regards to Divine Smite.

So when I think of a Sorcadin, I typically think of Paladin 6-7 // Sorcerer 13-14. I know there are different splits on the leveling process, like one you've mentioned in which the Sorcadin gains IDS (which I'd assume is a P12/S8 or P13/S7 split), but I'm going to focus on the P6/S14 right here. This split nets you a 17th level spell caster on the multiclass table. The additional number of spell slots you gain that a regular Paladin doesn't have is one 6th, one 7th, one 8th, and one 9th level spell slot. This is a total of 4 additional spell slots. Now these function essentially as 5th level spells if we only consider them as fuel for Divine Smite (and we shouldn't, as upcasting our 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th level Sorcerer spells should be what we're looking to do), and add a total of 4 more maxed out Divine Smites. This is fantastic in regards to burst potential, as we've already gone over.

In the end game, a Sorcadin is going to most likely do more consistent damage as a DM will probably have a hard time pressing a Sorcadin to burn all of their spell slots and Sorcery Points. But the end game is a long way away, and you're going to have to go through quite a bit to get there. The Sorcadin will burst their way through, and with a DM who only runs a couple of encounters per "adventuring day," they'll do great. Sorcadins are arguably one of the strongest multiclass combinations one could find at a table if a DM only runs a couple encounters a day. But for the DM's that run a full adventuring day of 6-8 encounters, I feel the Sorcadin will start to run on fumes near the end of the day. A single-class Paladin might be running on fumes too if they spend spells on Divine Smite (personally, I'd only use them on critical hits, but that's just me), but they have a tiny bit more room for feats and stat bumps compared to a Sorcadin. I see single-class Paladins as being able to more easily take PAM, which opens up their "always available" damage opportunities in ways that being a Sorcadin doesn't. Because of this I see single-class Paladins as being more consistent in their journey to the late game.

I chose the level at which I did the math as it was one in which both sides only have 2 ASI's, and both sides gain a pretty big boost. The single-classed Paladin gains IDS, and the Sorcadin gains an additional d8 from Booming Blade on both the initial attack and the rider effect. I'd love to do the math for a different level if there is one in particular in which you think both builds would have the same number of ASI's and potential for the same stats.

Overall, a Sorcadin will definitely have more burst. And in a majority of my games, the DM's only run with 2-4 encounters (right within the Sorcadin's wheelhouse number of encounters). But I plan for the 6-8 encounter day, despite what my DM's provide me. Because of this, as you rightly pointed out, I prefer sustained damage to burst.

[Citan]

So right out the gate, a Sorcadin using PAM would also require Warcaster and Spell Sniper to use BB on an enemy who's approaching within the 10' reach. This is three feats with only 5 ASI's. At best, you're looking at a Human who uses the starting feat on PAM, and the following two ASI's being Warcaster and Spell Sniper. This means 3 ASI's to boost Strength or Charisma, and they're going to be most likely be taken at level 12 or higher depending on how you split your multiclass.

I do make the assumption that a Sorcadin is taking Warcaster. The only Sorcadin that isn't taking Warcaster is one that is using a 2h weapon, as they have hands free to cast the Shield spell. One of the biggest strengths of the class is having such a high potential base AC, along with spells like Blur and the Shield spell to make it near impossible to hit the Sorcadin. To have such a high AC, using a shield is pretty standard. All this is moot though if you're one of the few who advocates for Sorcadins using 2h weapons.

And again, WHY, seriously WHY ARE YOU EVEN MAKING THAT ASSUMPTION???

1. NOWHERE in my previous post did I ever talk about trying to combine everything from PAM to make a BB on reaction when someone just enters.
Besides, I don't see any reasonable DM forbidding a player to wait until an enemy went into the 5 feet range to declare triggering PAM benefit.
So you are trying to say "hey Sorcadin using PAM needs three feats" which is plain WRONG.

2. Yourself talked about using PAM with a quarterstaff and a shield. Quarterstaff has a 5 feet range. So Spell Sniper not needed.

Sorry, but I feel you are really trying to deform my arguments through borderline dishonesty, just for the sake of "being right against a different opinion". And, carefully avoiding the factual, number-sourced argument I made above but that's beyond the point.

As for Warcaster... Why would it be needed for a Sorcading whose main goal is to smite and quicken cantrips?
First, if you use a two-handed weapons, per official errata you can free a hand when you are not attacking, so no problem.
Second, even if you wield a shield, Booming Blade and Greenflame Blade need only material component (the weapon) and verbal component (no problem). From what I remember, even Smite spells are similar in not needing somatic components. And since you can draw/sheathe a weapon as a free interaction, in the rare occurences in which you want to cast a big spell you can either cast it before drawing, or casting after sheathing, or pick Subtle metamagic for those rare occurences.
So first benefit of Warcaster is moot.
Second benefit of Warcaster, for someone who will spend most resources on non-concentration magic, is equally moot.
So the only benefit of Warcaster is to cast Booming Blade or other spell on OA.

Yeah, it's a good benefit, but you can perfectly do without it, or take it much later, or rather pick Sentinel which has a more definitive effect than Booming Blade.

So in the end, Warcaster is as equally beneficial and dispensable to a Sorcading as PAM may be to a normal Paladin.

[Biggstick]

And again, WHY, seriously WHY ARE YOU EVEN MAKING THAT ASSUMPTION???

1. NOWHERE in my previous post did I ever talk about trying to combine everything from PAM to make a BB on reaction when someone just enters.
Besides, I don't see any reasonable DM forbidding a player to wait until an enemy went into the 5 feet range to declare triggering PAM benefit.
So you are trying to say "hey Sorcadin using PAM needs three feats" which is plain WRONG.

2. Yourself talked about using PAM with a quarterstaff and a shield. Quarterstaff has a 5 feet range. So Spell Sniper not needed.

Sorry, but I feel you are really trying to deform my arguments through borderline dishonesty, just for the sake of "being right against a different opinion". And, carefully avoiding the factual, number-sourced argument I made above but that's beyond the point.

As for Warcaster... Why would it be needed for a Sorcading whose main goal is to smite and quicken cantrips?
First, if you use a two-handed weapons, per official errata you can free a hand when you are not attacking, so no problem.
Second, even if you wield a shield, Booming Blade and Greenflame Blade need only material component (the weapon) and verbal component (no problem). From what I remember, even Smite spells are similar in not needing somatic components. And since you can draw/sheathe a weapon as a free interaction, in the rare occurences in which you want to cast a big spell you can either cast it before drawing, or casting after sheathing, or pick Subtle metamagic for those rare occurences.
So first benefit of Warcaster is moot.
Second benefit of Warcaster, for someone who will spend most resources on non-concentration magic, is equally moot.
So the only benefit of Warcaster is to cast Booming Blade or other spell on OA.

Yeah, it's a good benefit, but you can perfectly do without it, or take it much later, or rather pick Sentinel which has a more definitive effect than Booming Blade.

So in the end, Warcaster is as equally beneficial and dispensable to a Sorcading as PAM may be to a normal Paladin.

But the reaction trigger for PAM is when you come within 10' of the creature with a Polearm. When you come within 5' of a 10' Polearm, the time for the reaction attack has passed. A reasonable DM would see that the trigger timing for the reaction has passed, and no longer allow you the reaction.

Even if the creature is able to get to 5' of you, or you're using a Quarterstaff, you still need Warcaster to cast a spell as an opportunity attack. It's still a spell, and you can't cast it as a reaction without having Warcaster.

I'm not avoiding the number based argument you made, I'd like to know a level in which you think I should compare the Sorcadin and the Paladin. I chose level 11, you said it was a bad level to choose, so I asked which level you'd like me to compare in which both would have an equal number of ASI's to have a similar expected level of strength.

The value of Warcaster is that most Sorcadins I've heard talked about use SnB. This means they don't have the free hand necessary for casting the Shield spell. This is something I've seen touted as one of the best abilities a Sorcadin has, is being able to cast the Shield spell to massively increase it's already incredibly high armor. As you've pointed out, and as I've already acknowledged as being true, using a 2h weapon means you don't need Warcaster for this particular ability. I think you might be in the minority of people though who use a 2h weapon when playing a Sorcadin. I could definitely be wrong though, and would admit my mistake if I'm assuming that incorrectly.

The reason Warcaster is a feat tax for Sorcadins is that they need it (as typically SnB users) to cast the Shield spell as a reaction or to cast BB as a reaction when an enemy leaves their 5' range of attack. Having to grab Warcaster typically slows down a Sorcadin's ASI progression.