Indicating heightened alertness outside of combat

[excommunicated]

Discussing suspicious areas with the GM, lamenting the inability to ready an action out side of combat initiative. I can't help but feel there should be some means to indicate a heightened state of alertness, but one with a down side, or limit so the party are not doing it all the time in the dungeon. Kind of like how soldiers cover each others movement while advancing in hostile territory. Can anyone think of any existing rules for 5th Edition that could be used to simulate such a heightened state of alertness in game?
The trigger for this discussion was a suspicious room where the monster was not visible and spot checks were unlikely to make it visible. We could have sneaked through the room and avoided the encounter, but I feel one party member should have advanced, while others were ready to react to any danger with ranged attacks, but I don't think existing rules I could think of at the time would allow us to simulate the situation.

Any suggestions?

[bid]

Activity While Traveling, p182.

By not going faster and taking risks, you indicate "heightened alertness".

[DarkKnightJin]

I don't see why you wouldn't be able to ready an action outside of combat.
Sending someone ahead, while the rest of the party covers them from ranged in case they get jumped.. That feels like it should be standard operating procedure if you're in a suspicious location that gives you the creeps.

[StoicLeaf]

I don't see why you wouldn't be able to ready an action outside of combat.
Sending someone ahead, while the rest of the party covers them from ranged in case they get jumped.. That feels like it should be standard operating procedure if you're in a suspicious location that gives you the creeps.

No, because the problem with that is the DM can then say: "my guys were readied as well!" and then you start arguing over who goes first. Hence why you need an initiative order and why ready actions are limited to combat.

Re: OP's question:
I can't tell how mechanical the solution needs to be and whether or not your DM just enjoys ******* you over.
If it's just a mechanical solution you're after, I'd talk to the DM about passive checks vs active checks.
A DM can also apply advantage to passive checks (+5 iirc), perhaps by taking your time you could garner an advantage.

The way you ask the question sounds like your party keeps running into ambushes that end horrifically for your guys, can you give some examples of situations?

[DeTess]

No, because the problem with that is the DM can then say: "my guys were readied as well!" and then you start arguing over who goes first. Hence why you need an initiative order and why ready actions are limited to combat.


If there where guys readying actions that would interfere with the parties readied actions nearby, initiative should already have been rolled.

If you're worried about this occuring, just allow a party to enter combat mode whenever they want, which includes them rolling for initiative.

[excommunicated]

The encounter did not end horribly. We were jumped by a water weird lurking in a pool that I was suspicious of. It was fairly much impossible to detect the water weird with perception. I'm just trying to think in character for a more cautious way to advance in the dungeon and trying to find a way to translate that into mechanics. I have no problem with the water weird acting first. Reaction's normally occur after what trigggered them.

I feel it is a little mechanically lacking to have an advancing thief, being covered by two effective ranged characters (Bow & eldrich Blast) where, if they made poor initiative rolls, they must wait for two attacks (or an attack and an attack sequence) on the thief, before they can respond.

[StoicLeaf]

If there where guys readying actions that would interfere with the parties readied actions nearby, initiative should already have been rolled.

If you're worried about this occuring, just allow a party to enter combat mode whenever they want, which includes them rolling for initiative.

See, you're doing it too!

[MrStabby]

My rule of thumb - regularly broken is that normally you detect threats through sight and sound. Remove a sense and you get disadvantage (say something being stealthy in a silence spell, something invisible or something moving behind concealment). Conversely add a sense and you get advantage. A zombie may stink for example.

As a modifier I also tend to give some people a sixth sense - the cleric devoted to hunting undead can sense undead, the paladin who fights demons can sense them and so on. Rangers favoured enemy being another example.

In this case I would rule intellect as a sense. If the PCs role played reducing that there was something hostile in the pool - something more than day to day adventuring paranoia, then I would give advantage on perception.

Advantage through intellect as a sense counteracts the invisible weird in water effect so neither advantage not disadvantage.

Then simple roll stealth vs perception and PCs that fail perception are surprised. There is an advantage to the ambush but deducing it is an ambush lessens its effects and you need a non metagame reason to suspect it.

Anyway, that is how I would DM it.

[Naanomi]

Walk around 'helping' your scout's perception to increase their passive perception?

[Unoriginal]

The encounter did not end horribly. We were jumped by a water weird lurking in a pool that I was suspicious of. It was fairly much impossible to detect the water weird with perception. I'm just trying to think in character for a more cautious way to advance in the dungeon and trying to find a way to translate that into mechanics. I have no problem with the water weird acting first. Reaction's normally occur after what trigggered them.

I feel it is a little mechanically lacking to have an advancing thief, being covered by two effective ranged characters (Bow & eldrich Blast) where, if they made poor initiative rolls, they must wait for two attacks (or an attack and an attack sequence) on the thief, before they can respond.

If the Weird is not detectable with Perception, then your character would not be ready for it. If someone beat you in initiative, it means your reaction time is slower than them, at least this time.

If you want to have a cautious character, they need to act cautious, not have rules that let them say "well, this guy just attacked, but I was ready so I get a reaction".

Like, if you can't detect anything but you're sure there is something weird with a pool in a dungeon, you can say "I hold my shield to protect myself and poke the pool with my sword" or something like that.

Heightened alterness gives you an higher Passive perception/Wis(Perception) check, or translate into things like "can't be surprised by ambushing enemies"

[StoicLeaf]

The encounter did not end horribly. We were jumped by a water weird lurking in a pool that I was suspicious of. It was fairly much impossible to detect the water weird with perception. I'm just trying to think in character for a more cautious way to advance in the dungeon and trying to find a way to translate that into mechanics. I have no problem with the water weird acting first. Reaction's normally occur after what trigggered them.

I feel it is a little mechanically lacking to have an advancing thief, being covered by two effective ranged characters (Bow & eldrich Blast) where, if they made poor initiative rolls, they must wait for two attacks (or an attack and an attack sequence) on the thief, before they can respond.

From an RP point of view, you either know that the water can attack you, in which case you didn't poke it/interact with it in a meaningful way or you didn't, in which case expecting your squad mates to be on the spot with their attacks is unrealistic.

Furthermore, why should a water weird that's standing right next to you not hit you before ranged projectiles reach it?
As a piece of advice: you need to view the 6 second combat round as an abstract. everything takes place more or less at the same time but you can't simulate that mechanically in a sensible way.
The situation as you describe it is fine, imo.

[Slipperychicken]

Here's how you represent a heightened state of alertness:
-Don't blunder into rooms; instead examine doors for traps, set your ear to the door and floor to detect movement in advance, have a precise marching order, test the handle before trying to enter.
-Check the ceiling, floor, walls, and other suspicious objects
-Use spells like detect magic or detect evil and good to see threats and treasure in advance
-Be active in calling to use your knowledge skills to identify environment-pieces and monsters
-Proceed in a thoughtful and considered manner; keep squishy PCs in the middle, your perception/trap specialist in front, move your close-combat people up when you expect violence.
-Have your sneaky/perceptive guy sneak ahead, but no further than he can run in a round, so he can retreat to you safely and quickly
-Have discipline regarding interaction with objects; put people in advantageous positions in expectation of negative results
-Scrutinize objects from a distance before approaching them. Consider tossing debris or prodding at some objects with a polearm or stick
-Draw weapons before combat

Your generally increased level of readiness will indicate your party that is actually trying to survive, while consuming more of your time and attention so you can't practically do it 24/7.


Can anyone think of any existing rules for 5th Edition that could be used to simulate such a heightened state of alertness in game?

I don't think so. Previous editions of D&D treated dungeon-crawling almost like a board-game in itself, with 10-minute intervals acting almost like 'dungeon turns' where the party could choose specific actions like searching for traps and hidden doors, fighting, resting, or doing anything else. If you didn't consume 10 minutes carefully checking for traps, then you don't get a roll to spot it in advance because traps are designed to elude casual observation. Proceeding carefully meant using up time and torches. D&D has since moved away from that idea, with players getting to automatically roll to see traps without spending time or even declaring their intention to search for them, and getting free torchless light in the form of 0th level spells.