Combining Magic armor/upgrading magic armor

[Dimcair]

Following Scenario.
PC with mining and smithing prof.
Finds Breastplate +1 (+ advantage to saves vs dragonbreath weapons)

Wants to build the breastplate into full plate.


Would the Fullplate with the Breastplate as the centerpiece retain the +1 of the breastplate? Why? Why Not?
What about the advantage to dragon breath weapons?

Why should this be allowed? Why should this be forbidden?

I am mainly interested in rules that suggest one or the other.
I was denied to smith my breastplate into a set of armor on the basis of: 'there is no mechanical rule to govern this in the book, even though it totally makes sense that you can use that breastplate in a fullplate set'

I am unable to make up my mind, what do y'all think?

[Saiga]

I think the lack of rules to cover it is intentional, not a gap in the rules. Because then wearing helmets, etc should give more AC than wearing full plate without a helmet. And while that's more logical, it requires more rules to adjudicate and reduces the freedom a player has in deciding what their character looks like. Full plate mentions being an entire set of armour, but ruleswise there's nothing to determine the AC without wearing a helmet (and you can't break it down anyway, because reducing AC by 1 gives you split armour which is missing MUCH more than the helmet),

So attempting to incorporate a +1 breastplate into a set of full plate totally makes sense to provide more protection without losing the benefits of the breastplate, but the reason the rules work that way is to avoid opening the can of worms where you need to track each part of your armour to ensure full effectiveness.

[Dimcair]

Ah, no that is not what I meant, sorry.


I want use the magic piece of Chestplate, and smith it into a full plate set. A chestplate is part of every full plate set, So for the armor, it is only a +1 to my effective ac (breastplate-> full-plate) the magical, or masterwork bonus is the question then. Do I lose it? Or does the new plate armor, benefit from having an especially magic/strong chestpiece.

[Naanomi]

Ah, no that is not what I meant, sorry.


I want use the magic piece of Chestplate, and smith it into a full plate set. A chestplate is part of every full plate set, So for the armor, it is only a +1 to my effective ac (breastplate-> full-plate) the magical, or masterwork bonus is the question then. Do I lose it? Or does the new plate armor, benefit from having an especially magic/strong chestpiece.
No set answer, magic item creation (and modification) is intentionally kept in the GM's discretion in 5e.

I would probably lose the +1 but keep the save bonuses in the situation you described (note: there is no such thing as 'masterwork bonus' in 5e)... or require a quest similar to one I would require for creating a new item for the Full Plate to 'absorb' the bonuses of the Armor

[pwykersotz]

I would absolutely allow a breatplate to be upgraded to part of a Full Plate set and retain all magical bonuses. It's downgrading that would be a problem. Parceling out bonuses between greaves, helm, breastplate, etc could get ugly.

From a rules perspective, a suit of Plate Armor does contain a breastplate with minimal modification. Does the DM have custom rules for minor cosmetic alteration removing enchantments? If not, then there is no reason not to run it as the rest of the armor granting the additional armor bonuses and the breastplate granting magic. Naturally there's nothing explicitly for or against this, so we can only extrapolate.

I don't really see an argument against it.

[JNAProductions]

Yeah, I'd allow smithing it up to full plate. I agree downgrading is likely to be problematic, and likewise, you can't go from, say, Studded Leather to Full Plate, but in this case? Go nuts.

[Slipperychicken]

I'd allow him to "upgrade" to half plate by wearing greaves, arm protection, gauntlets, pauldrons, and other metal pieces in addition to his breast-plate. They would cost the difference in price: 350gp. Also, if he gets hit by a rust monster, he loses those extra pieces (they're not magical) and gets downgraded back to breastplate.

Making all the armor-pieces interlock and interact for the benefit of full-plate armor would require modification to the breast-plate itself. To carry out those modifications without disturbing the magic, and extend the magic to the rest of the armor, I'd require the ability to craft magic armor. Once he meets that requirement or finds someone who does (depends on the game), the modifications would cost 1,100gp, which is the difference between breast plate and full plate armor.

[Naanomi]

Why are any arms and legs on armor enchanted? Seems easier then to just enchant breastplates and make the design more modular if the bonuses transfer freely

[xanderh]

I'd allow him to "upgrade" to half plate by wearing greaves, arm protection, gauntlets, pauldrons, and other metal pieces in addition to his breast-plate. They would cost the difference in price: 350gp. Also, if he gets hit by a rust monster, he loses those extra pieces (they're not magical) and gets downgraded back to breastplate.

Making all the armor-pieces interlock and interact for the benefit of full-plate armor would require modification to the breast-plate itself. To carry out those modifications without disturbing the magic, and extend the magic to the rest of the armor, I'd require the ability to craft magic armor. Once he meets that requirement or finds someone who does (depends on the game), the modifications would cost 1,100gp, which is the difference between breast plate and full plate armor.

A stand-alone breastplate would work just fine when incorporated into full plate. If it fits the wearer, it doesn't need to be modified, because a breastplate will always cover as much as possible without restricting mobility. Coverage of the armpits is done by the pauldrons, and the abdomen is done by faulds (which can either be separate from the breastplate or attached to it). It doesn't require modification to the breastplate itself, just the addition of more parts.

Besides, early plate armour (which is to say, most medieval plate) used chainmail to cover the armpits and elbows, and 15th century British plate was a chain hauberk with a breastplate on the chest, enclosed greaves on the legs, and enclosed arm protection on the arms. On that type of plate, replacing the breastplate with a magical one would be trivial.

Whether you could upgrade to plate or not is left up to the DM, but in my opinion it would be very reasonable. I might require that the magic be modified to also cover the other bits of the armour, but I also feel it would be very reasonable to not require this.

[Azgeroth]

i imagine the reason your DM is not allowing this is simply because he has decided a breast plate +1 is okay. full plate +1 not okay, else, why did he give a character who can wear heavy armour, medium armour..

its likely an issue of balance, so instead of asking can i do it, ask how can i do it, how long will it take, what/who do i need to do it, where/how can i find that/those things/people.

you did just get magical armour, turning around and sayying, can i make this magical item you just gave me better myself?? is taking liberties, personally i would of ruled the same way. not because it shouldn't be possible, but because if i wanted you to have magical full plate, that is what i would have given you.

[furby076]

No there are no rules for it, but there are no rules for gravity either :)

5e kept things intentionally rules light, to make it simpler and let the dm decide. This can be good and bad, depending on your dm. To say "if it aint in the rules, we cant do it is silly". Id bet money your campaign has some house rules changing game rules.

In my game, id let you upgrade. It would cost you the difference between breast and full, x2 since magic stuff has to happen.

But as another suggested, maybe your dm doesnt want you to have that much ac yet. Ask him/her

[JPicasso]

As everyone stated, no rules for this kind of thing.

Also, I agree with them in that I would allow you to upgrade your armor to a full plate. Actually, I'd probably require you to first upgrade to 1/2 plate, then quest s'more. Or upgrade to full plate, but no bonuses until you get to the wizard part.

But not with a handful of shaped shiny metal coins. NO! This is the stuff that quests are made of, and a terrific plot hook! I would love for my players to have such a realization, and motivation to go on an adventure. First, you'll have to find a smith who can forge this quality of armor. The only one in the area is located in a remote village, and has declared his retirement. You'll probably have to do some favors for him, or at least gather rare materials. Probably save his daughter/granddaughter/wife/pet bison from certain doom. THEN, you'll have to contact a mage who can magically connect the pieces together so that they all have the same magical properties. BUT! no, this mage is wanted for the crime of necromancy! (this is where the PCs shift uncomfortably) So you'll have to either convince him to work the armor and help hide/protect him, or clear his name, or turn him in when you're done.

So much can be done with this.

[Dimcair]

Thats not great for the other players that would like to continue the main plot line, so would I.

I want to play the story not some second hand cooked up cheesy story to be able to use my freaking tool proficiencies on my character that is a dwarven smith...
I can accept a no too, but to simply say there is no mechanics is a DM failing imo.

I didnt expect to just be handed the plate either, we headed to waterdeep to go find a smith for some advice/service but dm just straight told me that mechanically i couldnt do it and that was that...

Had nothing to do with a too powerful item yadayada =( just a sad moment


/edit: thanks for the opinions =) ^^ just venting now.