Wish like spell copying.

[noob]

lesser wish(and the other spells of the same kind: miracle and wish) says it can "Duplicate any sorcerer/wizard spell of 6th level or lower, provided the spell is not of a school prohibited to you."
Does this means the caster is considered as casting that duplicated spell or does it means that you cast lesser wish and you get the same effect as the duplicated spell without being considered as casting it?
In the former case it means that opponents can use spellcraft to see which spell is duplicated and that means that you count as being able to cast the spells you can duplicate with lesser wish and that if you duplicate an evil spell you risk to take an alignment hit and in the latter case people can not know which spell you are duplicating(making them react less efficiently) and you can duplicate evil spells without doing evil actions since the evil tag in spells only makes the casting of that spell be evil and not the effects of the spell.

[Necroticplague]

lesser wish(and the other spells of the same kind: miracle and wish) says it can "Duplicate any sorcerer/wizard spell of 6th level or lower, provided the spell is not of a school prohibited to you."
Does this means the caster is considered as casting that duplicated spell or does it means that you cast lesser wish and you get the same effect as the duplicated spell without being considered as casting it?
Just like when emulating a spell via Shadow spells, you're casting Wish, not the spell you duplicate.

[noob]

So that means that people can not use spell-craft for finding which spell I am copying and that I can use this to copy evil spells without doing evil actions?(and so that I can cast evil spells without losing exalted feats nor risking alignment change)
I guess that it means that with a rod of Excellent Magic I can copy animate dead with no xp cost and without becoming evil?(through lesser wish)

[Jack_Simth]

Spellcraft will only ID the (Limited) Wish or Miracle regardless; even if the spell casts the target spell, you need the somatic or verbal components to ID a spell during casting (although you might catch it after with the in place / in effect clause of Spellcraft; this aspect is essentially the same as descriptors, so see below). Ditto for the Shadow line of spells.

For descriptors? Depends on how you look at it - which also means "varies from DM to DM, so ask your DM".

If you look at it as a case of spell inheritance (the only spell cast is the (Limited) Wish or Miracle), then no: Descriptors don't happen - (Limited) Wish, Miracle, and the shadow line of spells all have their own School, subschool, and descriptor lines - which means they don't inherit any from whatever they're duplicating, and a Limited Wish for Dominate Person can get you control of that Mind-blanked Wizard said wizard fails the save. Again, ditto for the Shadow line.

If you look at it as a case of duplication (you cast (Limited) Wish or Miracle, then the (Limited) Wish or Miracle casts Dominate Person), then the spell in question is actually cast, and all descriptors apply.

So that means that people can not use spell-craft for finding which spell I am copying and that I can use this to copy evil spells without doing evil actions?(and so that I can cast evil spells without losing exalted feats nor risking alignment change)
I guess that it means that with a rod of Excellent Magic I can copy animate dead with no xp cost and without becoming evil?(through lesser wish)
If you're trying to work around the restrictions on Exalted feats, you're missing the point of them, and the DM should probably pull them from you anyway.

[noob]

Spellcraft will only ID the (Limited) Wish or Miracle regardless; even if the spell casts the target spell, you need the somatic or verbal components to ID a spell during casting (although you might catch it after with the in place / in effect clause of Spellcraft; this aspect is essentially the same as descriptors, so see below). Ditto for the Shadow line of spells.

For descriptors? Depends on how you look at it - which also means "varies from DM to DM, so ask your DM".

If you look at it as a case of spell inheritance (the only spell cast is the (Limited) Wish or Miracle), then no: Descriptors don't happen - (Limited) Wish, Miracle, and the shadow line of spells all have their own School, subschool, and descriptor lines - which means they don't inherit any from whatever they're duplicating, and a Limited Wish for Dominate Person can get you control of that Mind-blanked Wizard said wizard fails the save. Again, ditto for the Shadow line.

If you look at it as a case of duplication (you cast (Limited) Wish or Miracle, then the (Limited) Wish or Miracle casts Dominate Person), then the spell in question is actually cast, and all descriptors apply.

If you're trying to work around the restrictions on Exalted feats, you're missing the point of them, and the DM should probably pull them from you anyway.

Well I was speaking of rules as written.
There is silly stuff like malconvoker who remove the evil tag from summoning evil creatures(which is by excellency the most evil use of magic someone could possibly conceive: bringing creatures that are made of evil and only wants to cause sadness and evil) and a class that allows to remove the evil tag from animate dead meaning that the results of the spells is not evil but that it is the casting of those spells which is evil.
Why would a good aligned exalted malconvoker be allowed but not someone who use wish level of magic to cast a spell without causing evil?(I mean there is evil spells which does things that are 100900 times less evil than sanctified spells(like an evil spell that heals wounds when compared to a sanctified spell who imprisons and torture someone for a year))

[Crake]

Malconvoker doesn't remove the evil descriptor, they simply don't risk changing their alignment for casting evil summons/calling spells.

It's also worth noting that while the spell you're casting doesn't have those descriptors, the effect being created by the spell does, so using wish to duplicate dominate person won't affect someone who's mind blanked.

As for identifying the spell with spellcraft.... You're literally speaking out aloud your wish, so anyone can identify it just by listening to what you're wishing for.

[Necroticplague]

So that means that people can not use spell-craft for finding which spell I am copying and that I can use this to copy evil spells without doing evil actions?(and so that I can cast evil spells without losing exalted feats nor risking alignment change)
Correct. They can use Spellcraft to recognize your used Wish only, and it wouldn't inherit any [evil] descriptor.

I guess that it means that with a rod of Excellent Magic I can copy animate dead with no xp cost and without becoming evil?(through lesser wish)
This part, however, is specifically wrong. Animating undead is an inherently evil action, regardless of method used. BoVD is very clear on this issue.

[noob]

I was more thinking about using Nybor's Psychic Imprint without it being an evil act(If I use it on myself I harm nobody and I now have created an intelligent magical item which is quite hard to get even through 15% of the magical weapons are supposed to be intelligent according to the master manual).

[Psyren]

Correct. They can use Spellcraft to recognize your used Wish only, and it wouldn't inherit any [evil] descriptor.

I'd expect some table variation for that first bit. Part of IDing a spell is IDing its effects, so I see no reason that IDing a Wish shouldn't also reveal the spell its being used to duplicate, particularly since Wish requires you to verbally request that something happen. Moreover, if their Spellcraft is high enough to recognize a Wish, it's going to be high enough to recognize any other spell the Wish could duplicate.

[Jack_Simth]

Well I was speaking of rules as written.
So am I. The rules are not 'complete' in the logic sense of 'fully self-contained'. There's things in them that are occasionally demanded, but not actually covered. Depending on how the person arbitrating the rules (the DM, usually) looks at things, you will get different results. Congratulations: You've run across one of them.


There is silly stuff like malconvoker who remove the evil tag from summoning evil creatures(which is by excellency the most evil use of magic someone could possibly conceive: bringing creatures that are made of evil and only wants to cause sadness and evil) and a class that allows to remove the evil tag from animate dead meaning that the results of the spells is not evil but that it is the casting of those spells which is evil.
Why would a good aligned exalted malconvoker be allowed but not someone who use wish level of magic to cast a spell without causing evil?(I mean there is evil spells which does things that are 100900 times less evil than sanctified spells(like an evil spell that heals wounds when compared to a sanctified spell who imprisons and torture someone for a year))
Where do you get "torture" from Sanctify the Wicked? Additionally, as Crake noted: An Exalted Malconverter would "fall" for casting an [Evil] spell.

Regardless, I stand by: If you're trying to work around the restrictions in Exalted feats and do the things they forbid anyway, you're missing the point of Exalted feats.