Making Harry Dresden (possible spoilers for the books)

[nickl_2000]

I just finished reading to the current Dresden Files books and thought it would be interesting to build a Harry Dresden character. Some notes prior to making him

1) He would need to be a multiclass Wizard/Warlock
2) He needs very high intelligence and moderately high charisma and high con since he can take a beating and still keep going
3) He carries a club and staff as foci and weapons
4) Focuses on Fire and force magic as well as rituals, but can also cast some earth magic when necessary
5) How do you do his inner eye? Would that be True Seeing?
6) For magic items, he needs a magical duster (re-fluffed robe) that gives resistance to piercing and slashing and something with the force rings

Any other thought you would need to make him effectively?

[SaA]

now i know hes a Wizard, but you would prob have an easier time making him with the Mystic Class

Mastery of Ice
Mastery of Fire
Mastery of Force
Nomadic Mind - for the Find Creature ability , for his tracking spell
Third Eye - For his sight, you can Get truesight as a bonus action

at level 5
also to get these 5 disciplines only requires 5 levels

take it to 6th level and you get

+3 Wizard spells with the Order of the Wu Jen
which can be from 1st-3rd level, with a Meta Magic like Spell Points/Psi Points trade off sysem

[Ventruenox]

Evocation wizard with the Archfey warlock patron. (Or Fiend patron if he's from the earlier books and using the coin) I would say either Tome or Chain (Toot-Toot as a sprite) pacts , and the Detect Magic invocation to simulate the Sight. Instead of Human, go Aasimar for his Soulfire abilities. Shield spell is a must, Fire Bolt for Fozare, Prestidgitation for Flickus Bicus, and talk with your DM to make Hex have an effect on constructs.

[Mister_Squinty]

Despite what he calls himself, I always saw Harry as a Sorcerer with Ritual Caster over a straight Wizard. Then he MC into Warlock with, get this, multiple and shifting Patrons. First Lash, then Mr. Sunshine, and now the Fey.

Given his ability to make items of power, he might have some Artificer in there, or he's still playing 3.5 with the Item Creation feats.

I wanted to classify Bob as a Tome of the Chain familiar, but he's really an artifact.

[DivisibleByZero]

I just finished reading to the current Dresden Files books and thought it would be interesting to build a Harry Dresden character. Some notes prior to making him

1) He would need to be a multiclass Wizard/Warlock
2) He needs very high intelligence and moderately high charisma and high con since he can take a beating and still keep going

Moderately high Charisma?
I always thought of Cha as a pseudo-dump stat for him.
He's absolutely terrible at social interactions with just about everyone.

[nickl_2000]

Despite what he calls himself, I always saw Harry as a Sorcerer with Ritual Caster over a straight Wizard. Then he MC into Warlock with, get this, multiple and shifting Patrons. First Lash, then Mr. Sunshine, and now the Fey.

Given his ability to make items of power, he might have some Artificer in there, or he's still playing 3.5 with the Item Creation feats.

I wanted to classify Bob as a Tome of the Chain familiar, but he's really an artifact.

Given that he a fictional character, he really doesn't fit well into the D&D styles. Honestly though, I was wondering is he was actually a multiclass Warlock/Artificer who took ritual caster Wizard. Considering that he really only casts Fireball, Shield, Cone of Cold (later on), some sort of force blast, and Reverse Gravity it would be pretty fitting to skip Wizard completely

[nickl_2000]

Moderately high Charisma?
I always thought of Cha as a pseudo-dump stat for him.
He's absolutely terrible at social interactions with just about everyone.

He is terrible with social interactions because he chooses to be a wise ass. Despite that he has a loyal group of followers/friends who will follow him into the most dangerous possible situations. That implies to me that he has a least a decent cha. I'm open to disagreement though if I'm misinterpreting.

I would argue that his Wisdom is certainly a dump stat, though. He rarely is wise enough to keep his mouth shut and he puts himself in some pretty nasty situations.

[DivisibleByZero]

He is terrible with social interactions because he chooses to be a wise ass. Despite that he has a loyal group of followers/friends who will follow him into the most dangerous possible situations. That implies to me that he has a least a decent cha. I'm open to disagreement though if I'm misinterpreting.

He's gruff, dour, confrontational, has trouble interacting with people because of his demeanor, he's a wise ass, and he even drives his close friends completely nuts on a regular basis.
His Cha is absolute crap as far as I'm concerned.
His "loyal group of followers/friends who will follow him into the most dangerous possible situations" isn't because he has a way with people or with words, it's because he's proven himself to them. This is not because of his Cha, it's in spite of it.

My honest take, if I were building a "Harry Dresden" to be accurate in my mind, would be simple. No stat, and I mean nothing, higher than 14. Mostly 10s and 12s.
Wis and Cha would be 8 or 10.

[Gignere]

Moderately high Charisma?
I always thought of Cha as a pseudo-dump stat for him.
He's absolutely terrible at social interactions with just about everyone.

He is anti social but his force of spirit is second to none so high charisma. I agree with previous poster sorcerer/lock makes the most sense given the magic system of the Dresden system. Their wizards are more like sorcerers in D&D world with ritual casting and meta magic.

Actually I think 3.5 models the Dresden wizard much better with meta magics, item creation feats. Hell Butcher himself may have been influenced by 3.x given his age.

[Mister_Squinty]

Given that he a fictional character, he really doesn't fit well into the D&D styles. Honestly though, I was wondering is he was actually a multiclass Warlock/Artificer who took ritual caster Wizard. Considering that he really only casts Fireball, Shield, Cone of Cold (later on), some sort of force blast, and Reverse Gravity it would be pretty fitting to skip Wizard completely

Hey! Be fair! He doesn't just cast Fireball... He also casts Burning Hands, Fire Bolt, Flaming Sphere, Scorching Ray and Summon Doughnut.

Oh, and Forzare seems to be a straight Eldritch Blast.

I'm not sure what spell "Parkour" is though.

[Gignere]

Hey! Be fair! He doesn't just cast Fireball... He also casts Burning Hands, Fire Bolt, Flaming Sphere, Scorching Ray and Summon Doughnut.

Oh, and Forzare seems to be a straight Eldritch Blast.

I'm not sure what spell "Parkour" is though.

Tenser's transformation

[nickl_2000]

He's gruff, dour, confrontational, has trouble interacting with people because of his demeanor, he's a wise ass, and he even drives his close friends completely nuts on a regular basis.
His Cha is absolute crap as far as I'm concerned.
His "loyal group of followers/friends who will follow him into the most dangerous possible situations" isn't because he has a way with people or with words, it's because he's proven himself to them. This is not because of his Cha, it's in spite of it.

My honest take, if I were building a "Harry Dresden" to be accurate in my mind, would be simple. No stat, and I mean nothing, higher than 14. Mostly 10s and 12s.
Wis and Cha would be 8 or 10.

An interesting take on his Cha, and certainly worth considering. I'm not sure I completely agree with you there, but I'm going to have to mull it over in my head to decide.

What would you stat him out to be then?




Hey! Be fair! He doesn't just cast Fireball... He also casts Burning Hands, Fire Bolt, Flaming Sphere, Scorching Ray and Summon Doughnut.

Oh, and Forzare seems to be a straight Eldritch Blast.

I'm not sure what spell "Parkour" is though.

Parkour - Enhance Ability: Cat's Grace or Tensors Transformation would be the way to go there :)
He summoned a Doughnut once! That wasn't a spell, that was the use of a magical artifact anyways :smallyuk:


So maybe a Fire Sorcerer would be a better build for him?

[Dr.Samurai]

I just finished reading to the current Dresden Files books and thought it would be interesting to build a Harry Dresden character.
Welcome, brother.

1) He would need to be a multiclass Wizard/Warlock
2) He needs very high intelligence and moderately high charisma and high con since he can take a beating and still keep going
3) He carries a club and staff as foci and weapons
4) Focuses on Fire and force magic as well as rituals, but can also cast some earth magic when necessary
5) How do you do his inner eye? Would that be True Seeing?
6) For magic items, he needs a magical duster (re-fluffed robe) that gives resistance to piercing and slashing and something with the force rings
1. I haven't looked at Mystic closely, but if you can get all that by level 5, SaA may be onto something. Otherwise, straight Warlock might be able to do it, I think (though the ability scores don't quite match up).

2. I'd say reasonably high mental stats across the board. He is intelligent, but not a genius, and he is clever and thinks outside the box. His charisma is interesting. He bucks authority and pushes people's buttons, which makes him seem socially stupid, but I'd say Harry is charismatic. At the very least, he is certainly proficient in social skills, and I'd say he's got a positive charisma modifier to add to them. He navigates the world of the supernatural, and a lot of that has to do with the power he wields, but he also reads situations well and can convince others to work with him.

His physical stats are decent as well. Nothing crazy.

3. Simple enough to do.

4. We can probably simulate the common ones with cantrips I think.

4a. Forzare - Eldritch Blast cantrip+Repelling Blast Invocation?
4b. Fuego - Firebolt cantrip (with higher level fire spells as stronger versions)
4c. Infriga - Frostbite (though stronger versions like Cone of Cold work as well, when Harry used Infriga the first time, it tired him)
4d. Vento Servitas - Gust cantrip.

5. True Seeing is good. Detect Magic as well. And the Warlock invocation Witchsight works as well, though that's higher level.

6. I think the Force rings can just be Eldritch Blast.

I think a lot can be done with Warlock (Tome Pact). But their number of spells known might hurt them. Harry uses a few spells often, which can be simulated. But I'm not sure about all the other stuff.

[Mister_Squinty]

An interesting take on his Cha, and certainly worth considering. I'm not sure I completely agree with you there, but I'm going to have to mull it over in my head to decide.

What would you stat him out to be then?

Any stats are going to have to be adjusted to reflect pre/post Winter Knight. But even before he gets the Mantle, he's tall, strong, above average quickness, and really really tough. He's not stupid, and, unless we want to give him proficiency in Perception and Insight, he's above average Wisdom as well.

Since folks have gone back and forth on Charisma, I have to side with the high Charisma side. Skill wise, he is extremely able to Persuade, Deceive, and Intimidate. The force of his personality and will has turned war into peace (and vice versa).

Although I think he would be better represented in GURPS, with that system's Advantages/Disadvantages character options, I would stat him in the early books as:

ST: 14
DX: 12
CN: 18
IN: 12
WS: 14
CH: 16

Later in the books, once he gets the Mantle:

ST: 18
DX: 18
CN: 20
IN: 14
WS: 16
CH: 18

[nickl_2000]

Any stats are going to have to be adjusted to reflect pre/post Winter Knight. But even before he gets the Mantle, he's tall, strong, above average quickness, and really really tough. He's not stupid, and, unless we want to give him proficiency in Perception and Insight, he's above average Wisdom as well.

Since folks have gone back and forth on Charisma, I have to side with the high Charisma side. Skill wise, he is extremely able to Persuade, Deceive, and Intimidate. The force of his personality and will has turned war into peace (and vice versa).

Although I think he would be better represented in GURPS, with that system's Advantages/Disadvantages character options, I would stat him in the early books as:

ST: 14
DX: 12
CN: 18
IN: 12
WS: 14
CH: 16

Later in the books, once he gets the Mantle:

ST: 18
DX: 18
CN: 20
IN: 14
WS: 16
CH: 18

Personally I would play him as pre-winter mantle because after he is to powerful for a normal PC. Also, that removes the need for cold based spells. I am curious as to why you put his Wisdom so high?

[TheTeaMustFlow]

I'm not sure what spell "Parkour" is though.

Rogue dip.

[Joe the Rat]

You're going to need to think "Dresden-Inspired" rather than "Absolut Dresden." There are going to be some conversion tweaks, and some of his elements are not buildable as they come from play experience (That whole island thing, f'rex.) Full Dresden is probably best done with the eponymous FATE Accelerated game.

Also decide where you want to pick up - Storm Front Dresden is quite a bit different from Turn Coat which is Very different from post-Changes.

Essentials: Evocation (Fire focus), divination magic, crafting & brewing, ritual casting arcane foci; Tough as Nails, private detective, Incredibly effective button-pusher; strange luck, stranger friends.

Background: Yes, I want this out of the way first. Investigator (SCAG) works really well, particularly the feature. You may be able to get thieves' tools here. This is where his training was.

Race: VHuman. Resilient (Con or Wis - depending), Tough, Elemental Adept (Fire), Warcaster, or Skilled (mainly for tools). I'd be half-tempted to say Fire Genasi, but he's not particularly fireproof.

Stats: You will need a primary in your casting stat (more on that later). Con heavy. Wisdom is tricky. If you are using it as Wisdom - the sense of what one should go garnered on life experiences... Well, that's probably still a strong one. The ability to notice things and pick up on the vibe of the world? Yeah. Willpower? Yup.
Remember, he does stupid things, but he knows what he is doing is a stupid thing.
Charisma: Assuming you aren't taking one of my deviant approaches, can be argued for a strong suit. Charisma isn't about being likeable, it's about being able to influence others and your sense of self. And he can certainly influence others. You could go mediocre with Cha, if you use intimidation as "make people angry at me," where a success can result in things coming after him rather than running away.
DBZ's even distribution would probably work well - The only thing he's particularly exceptional on is height and stubbornness. This would almost make a case for Standard Human.

Class: I am split between wizard and sorcerer. Ignore the titles, which better fits how he works? In the Dresdenverse, magical foci are about giving you safe shortcuts and forms for your casting - it's easier to use an actual circle rather than just imagine one, but you can cast with NOTHING if necessary. If that is something you want to keep, you need Sorcerer for the Metamagics (For Subtle(ha!), Empowered, maybe Distant, possibly Quickened. But not Careful.) This also plays nicely into not requiring a ton of intelligence - he tends to run a bit bone-headed, but he does know his stuff. This also ticks on the inborn/inherited nature of magic. Trick is finding the right subtype. Mechanically, Dragon would be most useful, as it gives him some of the ridiculous resilience Wizards in general (and he in particular) has. I say Brass, for the fire angle, and because he's a bit of a smart ass. Wild magic doesn't fit, but you might be able to use the mechanic for strange luck... or the Techbane quality of Dresden Wizards (in this case, more green flames and curdling milk).

Wizard gets a lot of the fundamentals - ability to specialize, ritual casting, skill options, the class name. This is probably the simplest. Evocation is tempting, if for one small problem. Sculpted Spell. Doesn't feel right for him. Divination and Abjuration each have their benefits and themes. Abjuration makes for good shield talisman simulation - one that can protect others as well, until it fails.

This will be your core.

Other bits and pieces: (multiclassing)
Rogue One. For expertise in Investigation, and thieves' tools (if you coudn't finagle elsewhere). I'd be tempted to put that in first for the hand crossbow proficiency, but that has more to do with setting practicality.
Or he just carries one.

Warlock: Adds a lot to the build mechanically, though the official Pact aspect is late in the game. I would go Tome here. No magic summoned weapon, and linking senses with other beings and mind control are not his thing. Bob is sort-of a familiar, but practically would be best thought a stand-in for a Patron (and nearly a Book of Shadows) if you make it an early element. (though a sprite familiar sort of works...). This would also let you get ritual casting if you go sorcerer for the core. Eldritch Sight (at-will detect magic) is a good stand-in for the Sight at early levels. Plus Fozare! via repelling blast. Going by personal/suspected-by-Wardens history, you could start Warlock2+ (Long Death is oddly functional, or Fiend for the Lash period) and do a rebuild at later levels/years with Archfey.
I'd be inclined to make this the core of the build, but that's because of Signature reasons.

Proficiencies:
Musts: Investigation, Arcana, Stealth. Possibly: Intimidation, Nature. Dubious: Insight - though this could help cover some Sight angles.

Items:
Assume the DM has a magic item crafting/ enchanting plan to cover potion-work.

Thy Rod and Thy Staff: Arcane foci. You could make the case for the blasting rod to be a wand of fireballs. charm bracelet and pendant can also act as foci. He tends to have multiple function-specific foci.

The Duster: Warlock first could make this some sweet enchanted leather armor (my recommendation), but going by the garment equivalent (Cloak), It's effects are in line with a cloak of protection.

Force Rings: That looks like a Ring of the Ram, straight-up.

Hat: Never.

Spells:
Fuego: Fire bolt. Bonfire. Burning Hands. Aganazzer's Scorcher. Fireball. Delayed Blast Fireball. Wall of Fire. You get the idea.
Fozare: Repelling Eldritch Blast is a good start. Gust, Thunderwave, gust of wind also can work in.
Other elements: Earthbind. Shatter can simulate some of the Gravity Crush features (particularly the collateral damage).
Shield, Absorb Elements, Alarm, Prot Good Evil, Magic Circle, probably Warding Rune while we're at it. Dude likes security on his sanctum.
Detect object, Divination, Clairvoyance, some expensive foci that are CRAZY strong boosters, if not magic items in themselves. (Little Chicago?)
Animate Object (Storm Front), Animate Steaks* (Dead Beat)
Eventually you can stock up on the Ice spells.


* Animate dead, only targets beasts, and upcasting increases the number OR size of your to-be-animated beast.

[Mister_Squinty]

Personally I would play him as pre-winter mantle because after he is to powerful for a normal PC. Also, that removes the need for cold based spells. I am curious as to why you put his Wisdom so high?

Because, throughout the books, he's very good at both being aware of his surroundings, including seeing through Molly's illusions (Perception), and reading people's motives (Insight). He was the one who was able to find the mole in the White Council even though everyone on the Council is far more powerful than he is. Plus he makes a LOT of Will saves against Glamour, Charm, Seduction, etc.

[nickl_2000]

SNIP for size purposes

Dang Joe, as always your summaries are pretty darn amazing.

[nickl_2000]

Because, throughout the books, he's very good at both being aware of his surroundings, including seeing through Molly's illusions (Perception), and reading people's motives (Insight). He was the one who was able to find the mole in the White Council even though everyone on the Council is far more powerful than he is. Plus he makes a LOT of Will saves against Glamour, Charm, Seduction, etc.

I see your point there, I guess that is where my struggle lies. He is good at those, but he is also really dumb in other cases. The man runs his mouth off at some of the most powerful beings in existence, that implies low Wisdom to me, although as DBZ said it could also be lower Charisma. I wonder if the perception, insight, and saves could be covered with feats/proficiency

[dejarnjc]

I see your point there, I guess that is where my struggle lies. He is good at those, but he is also really dumb in other cases. The man runs his mouth off at some of the most powerful beings in existence, that implies low Wisdom to me, although as DBZ said it could also be lower Charisma. I wonder if the perception, insight, and saves could be covered with feats/proficiency

Everyone knows this but worth stating anyway, D&D wisdom =/ real world wisdom. I'd just lump his mouthiness in as a personality flaw.

[nickl_2000]

Everyone knows this but worth stating anyway, D&D wisdom =/ real world wisdom. I'd just lump his mouthiness in as a personality flaw.

Very true, it's more of a discussion of how to handle the various aspect of what Wisdom means in D&D. There is more than one way to accomplish it.




Another aspect I didn't think about. What about Mouse? How do we get Mouse into all of those? Sure a beastmaster would get it done easily, but Harry is definitely not a beast master.

[DivisibleByZero]

I see your point there, I guess that is where my struggle lies. He is good at those, but he is also really dumb in other cases. The man runs his mouth off at some of the most powerful beings in existence, that implies low Wisdom to me, although as DBZ said it could also be lower Charisma. I wonder if the perception, insight, and saves could be covered with feats/proficiency

That's why I said I'd start him with 12s and 14s pretty much across the board.
I think DnD is the wrong game to attempt to emulate it, but if I were to try:
Str: 12
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 10
Cha: 8
Proficiencies in many different areas, and lots of them. So maybe a Rogue beginning as a VHuman with the Skilled feat?
2 from BG, 1 from VHuman, 4 from Rogue, 3 from feat: 10 skills
Leading into Wizard after that.

[Mister_Squinty]

I see your point there, I guess that is where my struggle lies. He is good at those, but he is also really dumb in other cases. The man runs his mouth off at some of the most powerful beings in existence, that implies low Wisdom to me, although as DBZ said it could also be lower Charisma. I wonder if the perception, insight, and saves could be covered with feats/proficiency

I agree that, from a reader's point of view, it's really dumb to insult beings of power. However, given the predatory nature of so many of those beings, Dresden has learned that he cannot show any hint of weakness or submissiveness when around them. He has to show willing to throw down with anyone lest he get eaten. The White Court, the Fey, etc may be able to crush him, but they have to weigh how much it will cost them to do so, especially if he has time cast a Death Curse.

That and, by the later books, if he doesn't mouth off, people would think he's a doppleganger.

[Mister_Squinty]

Another aspect I didn't think about. What about Mouse? How do we get Mouse into all of those? Sure a beastmaster would get it done easily, but Harry is definitely not a beast master.

Mouse is a DMPC. If we have to stat him, he's a perma-Wild Shaped Druid.

[DKing9114]

Mouse is a DMPC. If we have to stat him, he's a perma-Wild Shaped Druid.

Can't be a Wild Shaped Druid, Mouse is a higher CR than even Moon Druids can reach. He's a homebrew creature, probably a celestial.

[GlenSmash!]

Hat: Never.

This guy knows what he is talking about.

[Kuulvheysoon]

This guy knows what he is talking about.

But he's always got a hat on the covers...:smalltongue:

[GlenSmash!]

I think most Fictional heroes can be modeled with no stat higher than 14 and having the lucky feat. I think it works well for Harry Before he gets the Mantle of the Winter Knight.

It looks like Xanathar's is getting a War Magic Wizard, which might be a pretty good take on Harry. It looks like it gets Shield as an ability rather than just the shield spell. Reading that reminded me of Harry's liberal use of his shield bracelet. As to what the rest of the subclass holds. I'll just have to wait and see.

[nickl_2000]

I think most Fictional heroes can be modeled with no stat higher than 14 and having the lucky feat. I think it works well for Harry Before he gets the Mantle of the Winter Knight.

It looks like Xanathar's is getting a War Magic Wizard, which might be a pretty good take on Harry. It looks like it gets Shield as an ability rather than just the shield spell. Reading that reminded me of Harry's liberal use of his shield bracelet. As to what the rest of the subclass holds. I'll just have to wait and see.

Ya, when I heard JC talking about War Wizard it seemed like it would be a pretty straight fit