Newbie Barbarian seeking advice

[Dubkor]

Hello,

I'm basically a modern D&D newbie seeking some advice. I'm looking to play a 1st level human barbarian with a shortspear and shield loadout. I've done a lot of LARP in my life and it's just a character type that I feel I can RP effectively. Anyways, my question is, how do I make it not suck at level one?

My DM is good with any feats etc in any book so long as it's not homebrew.

My rolls weren't super great. I'm at 16str, 15 dex and con, 14 wisdom, 10 int and 13 char.

Any advice on feats or additional equipment is super appreciated.

[JNAProductions]

Not actually bad stats. Not great, but not bad.

First off, are you 100% spear and shield? Because that's pretty suboptimal. If you aren't, two-handers are MUCH better, but if you are... Well, you like what you like.

Second off, Lion Totem. Gives you pounce. Won't be any good till level 6, but will MASSIVELY help from level 6 onwards.

[Dubkor]

Oh, and I'm looking at mostly dealing damage. Our party already has an 18 con dwarf fighter.

[JNAProductions]

Oh, and I'm looking at mostly dealing damage. Our party already has an 18 con dwarf fighter.

Two-handed weapon, definitely. The shield does NOT help with damage.

[ATHATH]

Perhaps this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?105525-3-5e-Being-Bane-Eldariel-s-Guide-to-Barbarians) will help you?

[denthor]

Human 2 feats.

Improved initiative
Can not remember the name allows you multiple attacks based on dexterity when opponents get close. Wit the 2 handed long spear it should make you deadly.



Use a long spear attack 2nd rank since you have the dwarf.
At lower levels javelin is a good throwing weapon.

Get hide armor quick.

Ranks in spot, Survival are a must

[JNAProductions]

Human 2 feats.

Improved initiative
Can not remember the name allows you multiple attacks based on dexterity when opponents get close. Wit the 2 handed long spear it should make you deadly.



Use a long spear attack 2nd rank since you have the dwarf.
At lower levels javelin is a good throwing weapon.

Get hide armor quick.

Ranks in spot, Survival are a must

Combat Reflexes, I think.

[Telonius]

Barbarian is slightly feat-starved; to really get the most out of your damage, you need to plan a bit. Shock Trooper (from Complete Warrior) is one you should be aiming for, especially if you get Lion Totem. (Note that the Lion Totem JNA is talking about is the one in Complete Champion, not the one in Unearthed Arcana). Shock Trooper requires Power Attack (which you absolutely want) and Improved Bull Rush (which isn't terrific, but a prereq is a prereq).

[Nifft]

You get Pounce from Lion spirit totem (Complete Champion) -- not from plain Lion totem (Unearthed Arcana).

Pounce is great, especially if you have Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ) instead of Rage.

At level 3, I personally recommend the Trapkiller alternate class feature (ACF) from Dungeonscape.


16/15/14/14/13/10 as stats are quite decent. You'll be fine.


One very standard thing to do is Barbarian 4 / Fighter 2, to nab Leap Attack + Shock Trooper at level 6.

Less-standard but also fun is Barbarian 4 / Fist of the Forest 3 / Bear Warrior + (but that's more about claws than two-handed weapons).

[Captn_Flounder]

Water Orc player race from Unearthed Arcana and the Half-Minotaur template from Dragon Magazine will give you, IIRC, 16 strength and a bunch of constitution and other things too.

Then you go Spirit Lion Totem barbarian for 1 levels, fighter 5, frenzied berserker 10.

You will probably be at 3 intellect or around there (it only goes down to 3, even if you should go lower from race modifiers) and you will get 1 skill point per level minimum (4 at level 1). Put that point in "jump" everytime. You need +8 ranks at level 6 for Leap Strike.

Feats you get

Level 1 powerful charge
Flaw 1 power attack
Flaw 2 cleave
Fighter 1 (Level 2)Intimidating Rage
Level 3 destructive rage
Fighter 2 (Level 3) improved bullrush
Fighter 4 (level 5) leap attack.
Level 6 Shock Trooper

EDIT: Just remembered you need IMPROVED BULLRUSH for Shock Trooper. Fixed that for you. If you can't use Flaws, just take an extra level in Fighter, drop Powerful Charge (only really good for half-minotaur due to size increase) and get Shock Trooper at Fighter 6 (level 7).

(If anyone could check, believe those are the prereqs for Frenzied Berserker, not 100 on that. Been a minute since I've played melee)

Pretty standard base for the Charger, and with all that work you will almost be able to keep you with casters post level 6.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Mkay. So. 3.5 is kinda biased against shields. They're just... not an effective defensive investment. But! They can be decent offensively, if you're willing to bash with them.

Step one is to be human, for the bonus feat. Grab Improved Shield Bash and Two-Weapon Fighting, pick up a light shield (preferably spiked) and you can start smacking the crap out of people. You might also look at a better weapon than the shortspear. Tridents or Heavy Picks are generally superior choices damage-wise, with slight refluffing on the pick.

Step two is this lion totem thing people are talking about. Complete Champion has a set of "alternate class features" for the Barbarian which include the "Spiritual Totem" feature. One of these options, the lion totem, trades away your Fast Movement ability for the ability to make full attacks at the end of a charge. This is an incredible ability, since it lets you move and make your full set of attacks every round. (But, like, even better than that, because there are a bunch of things that boost damage when you're charging)

If you want to continue down this road, Shield Charge (Complete Warrior) and Shield Slam are great follow-up feats at 3rd and 6th which work well with the whole "charge-and-shield-bash" bit. The former lets you make a free trip attempt if you bash someone during a charge; the latter forces them to make a save or be dazed for a round under the same conditions. (And of course you can use them at the same time)

If flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) (Unearthed Arcana) are on the table, I highly suggest grabbing Extra Rage (Complete Warrior) as well, so you can use your key power boost more often.

[Darrin]

Lots of great advice so far.

If you're going to stick with shortspear/shield, then you may need to limit your Barbarian levels. You can combine TWF with Power Attack/Leap Attack/Shock Trooper, but you're going to need a lot of feats to get it working at lower levels. To get Power Attack damage on both your primary and offhand weapon, you're going to need either Oversized TWF (Complete Adventurer ) or Agile Shield Fighter (PHBII). How about....

Race: Human.
1) Barb 1. Feat: TWF. Human: Improved Shield Bash. Spirit Lion Totem -> Pounce.
2) Barb 2. Wolf Totem -> Improved Trip.
3) Fighter 1. Feat: Oversized TWF. Bonus: Power Attack.
4) Fighter 2. Bonus: Improved Bull Rush.
5) Fighter 3.
6) Fighter 4. Feat: Leap Attack (Complete Adventurer). Bonus: Shock Trooper (Complete Warrior).
7) Fighter 5.
8) Fighter 6. Bonus: Improved TWF.
9) Fighter 7. Feat: Knock-Down (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knockDown).
10) Fighter 8. Bonus: Shield Slam (Complete Warrior).
11) Fighter 9.
12) Fighter 10. Feat: Travel Devotion (Complete Champion). Bonus: Shield Charge (Complete Warrior).
13) Fighter 11.
14) Fighter 12. Bonus: Greater TWF.
15) Fighter 13. Feat: Travel Devotion x2.
16) Fighter 14. Bonus: Power Lunge (Ghostwalk).
17) Fighter 15.
18) Fighter 16. Feat: Travel Devotion x3. Bonus: Combat Reflexes.
19) Fighter 17.
20) Fighter 18. Bonus: Double Hit (Miniatures Handbook).

If you're *really* dead-set on shortspear/shield, then you can combine Phalanx Fighting, Formation Expert (both from Complete Warrior), and Shield Wall (Heroes of Battle) with a buddy who has the same feats for: +6 AC, +1 on Ref saves, +2 on attack rolls. However, that would require someone else in the party to blow three feat slots and then you'd have to stand next to each other every combat. (If you want to do this with just yourself, you could use Trickery Devotion to create a duplicate "you" for your shield wall. Or just use Leadership for cohort/followers.)

[Eldariel]

Spears are terribly implemented in 3.5; that's the sticking point here. I know you're going for the Phalanx style fighting but that takes a lot of work. You basically can't one-hand Spears reasonably; you could two-hand one and use a Buckler but at that point you're better off just getting a martial two-handed weapon. Anyways, there's a guide on 3.5 Barbarians here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?105525-3-5e-Being-Bane-Eldariel-s-Guide-to-Barbarians) for you to peruse should you feel so inclined. Largely, I do recommend two-handing; it's just favoured by the system, particularly if you want to do damage (and in general).

[AnimeTheCat]

As others have suggested, weapon and shield is under-loved in D&D, but it's really not all that bad. It's biggest downside is that typically you're limiting your damage output. To mitigate that you need to weaponize your shield. Others have detailed how to do this fairly effectively, however I prefer a heavy shield and a light weapon as opposed to a light shield and a 1-handed weapon. Here's what I would do for the first few levels:

Level 1: Barbarian (Spirit Lion Totem) (Whirling Frenzy Rage variant)- Feats: (H) Improved Shield Bash, (1) Two Weapon Fighting.
Level 2: Barbarian - Class ability: Uncanny dodge
Level 3: Fighter - Feats: (F) Shield Specialization (Heavy), (3) Shield Ward
Level 4: Warblade - Maneuvers:Battle Leader's Charge, Mountain Hammer, Sudden Leap , Stance: Punishing Stance, Ability Score Increase: Dexterity.

as your accompanying weaopn to your shield, I would recommend a light pick or shortsword. Those are just my personal favorites. Overall, with a breastplate and heavy wood shield, your AC is going to be 21, 16, 21 without any magic enhancements. That's plenty for you to take a -2 to for charging or punishing stance and if you rage (whirling frenzy) you get that back via a dodge bonus (with the added benefit of +4 strength meaning +2 damage and +2 to hit).

Damage spreads at level 1 will be 1d4+3 (shield)/1d6+1 (shortsword). If you get a spiked shield at level 1 1d6+3.
Level 4 has the potential to, on a charge, look more like 1d6+13+1d6 (Spiked Heavy Shield+Strength/Battle leader's Charge+Punishing Stance)/1d6+1+1d6 (Shortsword+1/2 strength+punishing stance).

It has potential, but to get the most out of your damage you need damage boosters and the Martial Adept classes from Tome of Battle provide that.

EDIT:
I like the Whirling Frenzy variant because it gives an extra attack on top of two weapon fighting (albeit at a -2 to everything) but that is mitigated by the strength bonus and by charging so on the attack roll you're at a net 0 gain but on the damage you're getting +2 to your main hand and +1 to your off hand, same as if you two handed but spread across 2 weapons.

[tiercel]

First, let me add my voice to those suggesting Eldariel’s _Being Bane_ Barbarian Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?105525-3-5e-Being-Bane-Eldariel-s-Guide-to-Barbarians). It’s a great resource (and a hilariously awesome read).

There’s a lot of good advice in this thread, so I’ll just try to summarize a bit:

What’s more important to you: simplicity of play, or weapon and shield style?

If you want a simple “Hulk Smash” type barbarian, you really probably need a two-handed weapon, Power Attack, and as many multipliers to charge-type attacks as you/your group feel comfortable with. (Interestingly, the “simple” version will be a little more complicated in tactical gameplay, since you’ll be trying to figure out *how much* to Power Attack for, since bonus damage is great, but not so great if you are whiffing your attacks.)

If you want weapon and shield, there are lots of good points in this thread, but be aware that your build will be more complicated in order to fully take advantage of (A) your shield and (B) that using weapon-and-shield is generally a weaker option if not well built — you will probably be using more Fighter levels (for piles of bonus feats) and/or Tome of Battle’s martial maneuvers to gain extra effectiveness.

[DEMON]

Two-handed weapon, definitely. The shield does NOT help with damage.

I can't find it right now, but there sure as heck is... something... that allows you to combine light shield and a spear (two handed), giving you all the goodies and letting you eat... them?, too.

[PhantasyPen]

Has anyone suggested Whirling Frenzy yet? It gives the standard Rage Str bonus, and an AC buff instead of a con boost. Also, because of how it is written, it appears to allow you to take a second attack as part of your standard action, so I consider it strictly better on a barbarian than standard rage. You won't be able to take Frenzied Berserker though if you were looking into that.

EDIT: Oh! I've also used it on an axe-and-heavy shield barbarian, and found that it was a great way to tank for my party at the level we were at.

[Captn_Flounder]

Has anyone suggested Whirling Frenzy yet? It gives the standard Rage Str bonus, and an AC buff instead of a con boost. Also, because of how it is written, it appears to allow you to take a second attack as part of your standard action, so I consider it strictly better on a barbarian than standard rage. You won't be able to take Frenzied Berserker though if you were looking into that.

EDIT: Oh! I've also used it on an axe-and-heavy shield barbarian, and found that it was a great way to tank for my party at the level we were at.

Except you can't really "tank" a group of intelligent enemies (barring Knights and their Challenges or something similar). Only a fool and his party would circle up and attack the barbarian while the guy in the back with glowy eyes shoots lightning from his hands and wipes out your squad.

Maybe if you are only fighting one animal at a time or only undead or something or you always have a doorway to bottleneck it could work out for you.

[PhantasyPen]

Except you can't really "tank" a group of intelligent enemies (barring Knights and their Challenges or something similar). Only a fool and his party would circle up and attack the barbarian while the guy in the back with glowy eyes shoots lightning from his hands and wipes out your squad.

Maybe if you are only fighting one animal at a time or only undead or something or you always have a doorway to bottleneck it could work out for you.

Exactly that, plus I was a naturally Large character with a corresponding boost to my reach. Plus I was pretty much the biggest threat on the field outside the "dragon" character (whom I do not wish to speak about. Lot of bad blood there...)

[Telonius]

I can't find it right now, but there sure as heck is... something... that allows you to combine light shield and a spear (two handed), giving you all the goodies and letting you eat... them?, too.

Looks like that's the "Shield and Pike Style" feat from Dragon 338.

[Fouredged Sword]

Another fun build is barbarian 1 / half orc paragon 3 / fighter 2. Here you want to take the whirling frenzy acf as you get rage from your paragon class. Take the extra rage and intimidating rage feat. Rage and whirling frenzy bonuses stack alongside the half orc and paragon bonus to turn that 16str into a base 20str and 28str when rageing and frenzying. Just be cautious of the backlash when your abilities wear off. Exausted happens when you stack fatuige.

[PhantasyPen]

Another fun build is barbarian 1 / half orc paragon 3 / fighter 2. Here you want to take the whirling frenzy acf as you get rage from your paragon class. Take the extra rage and intimidating rage feat. Rage and whirling frenzy bonuses stack alongside the half orc and paragon bonus to turn that 16str into a base 20str and 28str when rageing and frenzying. Just be cautious of the backlash when your abilities wear off. Exausted happens when you stack fatuige.

Um... No, they don't. Whirling Frenzy explicitly does not stack with other forms of rage or the Frenzied Berserker. (Something that modifies your rage like Bear Warrior should still work from how I understand it though...)

[Fizban]

I'm basically a modern D&D newbie seeking some advice. I'm looking to play a 1st level human barbarian with a shortspear and shield loadout. I've done a lot of LARP in my life and it's just a character type that I feel I can RP effectively. Anyways, my question is, how do I make it not suck at level one?
I do find the two statements somewhat at odds as expecting a basic build to suck implies more than zero system knowledge. Thus, I presume that your DM, who allows any source, is also the source of your expectation that a spear+shield barbarian will suck.

As such, the person I would ask for advice is your DM. Only your DM knows what power level their game is. Maybe you'll need a maxed-ubercharger, maybe you won't need anything at all, probably something in-between. If your DM does not expect the damage dealer to kill things in one round, then shield+weapon will be just fine, though you'll still want to get something special besides basic attacks.

For something that hasn't been suggested, there's Ferocity (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) from the Cityscape Web Enhancement. One of the only useful things about a shortspear is that you can throw it: Ferocity increases your dex, improving your ranged attack roll against close targets (past 30' the -2 cancels out the +2). Otherwise you can take Brutal Throw from Complete Adventurer to use str on throwing attacks instead, so Rage or Whirling Frenzy also boosts ranged attack, and since Ferocity's activation action conflicts with my next idea, might as well just go WF-

There's also the Tormtor School feat from Drow of the Underdark: it lets you melee attack with javelins (effectively making them better than shortspears), with the ability to stab a guy then suddenly throw the javelin at a different guy within 30'. Taking a level of Master Thrower (from Complete Warrior) at 6th (the same level you qualify for Tormtor School) will get you Quick Draw at the same time. The Master Thrower is not really meant for str-based javelin throwing, but thrown weapon trick options include trip by throwing, throw while tumbling, hit two people at once, and the main char-op goal of throwing attacks ignoring armor. Combine the last one with Power Throw (also Complete Adventurer), and you can get a lot of bonus damage easily.

And if you must, none of this precludes the spirit lion pounce- though keeping fast movement is pretty nice for a skirmisher.

Human Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 5/Master Thrower 5
1st: Point Blank Shot
Human Bonus: Brutal Throw
3rd: Weapon Focus (javelin) -but you're still wielding a Shortspear in melee for now
6th: Tormtor School, trick: Two with One Blow, free Quick Draw feat
8th: Master Thrower trick: Tumbling Toss
9th: Power Attack
10th: trick: Weak Spot, free Improved Crit

You can have two full bonus throws while moving and attacking a particular guy (one from Tormtor, one from Tumbling Toss), which hit adjacent targets and ignore armor. Or you can just stand and Power Throw however many attacks you can get. Or move+tumbling toss+ regular attack for two Power Throws without having to hit someone in melee. It's a bit bland up until 6th with Whirling Frenzy on just melee attacks (but see below). If you don't think hitting adjacent targets will be useful (and it will be very useful any time you fight a proper group of mooks), then you can take the trip trick instead for support/disruption.

Oh, and you're wearing a shield, because javelins only take one hand. So you've got extra AC, while Whirling Frenzy boosts your AC, and AC is good. Ranged attacks let you move around so you get attacked less, which is even better. Your tanky dwarf friend can take the Shield Wall feat (Heroes of Battle) for +2 AC whenever you swing by to hang out with him, even though you don't have any phalanx feats yourself. Throw pointy stuff, hide next to/behind the dwarf, then stab them if they think they've got you beat in melee.

Weapon loadout would be a pile of cold iron and silver javelins, maybe a Glove of Endless Javelins (in the Item Set section of Magic Item Compendium), and one buffed javelin that's for melee stabbing. You can use those extra Whirling Frenzy attacks before you get Quickdraw by buying a couple Least Crystals of Return from Magic Item Compendium.