Thug Tank Build

[HackRabbyt]

Hello everyone!

We're starting a new campaign and need a good front-line fighter to take some of the heat off caster party members. I wanted to go for a non-traditional "tank-ish" character, so I was wondering if someone could let me know if the build I'm thinking is viable, in addition to offering any critiques.

I'm variant Human. Per our house rules, stats are rolled up and can't be switched around. These are (before bonuses) Str(16), Dex (17), Con (16), Int (13), Wis (12), Cha (12).

I'm thinking of going Barb 3 (bear totem), Rogue 5 (Swashbuckler), Fighter 12 (either battle master or the new cavalier). Feats I'm considering are Sentinel and Shield Master, with other possibilities being Alert or Lucky. I'm hoping that, by starting with Rogue and Barb, I'll have some durability in early levels. Fighter would give me 2 extra attacks + action surge + second wind + either more stickiness with Cavalier or more options with Battlemaster + the extra ASIs.

Thoughts? Would this be viable throughout the career of this character?

Thanks in advance!! :-)

[smcmike]

Should work fine. High physical stats + barbarian + rogue = action hero. One to your plan is that you will be getting a second attack quite late - sticking with rogue and barbarian would keep your damage a bit higher in the middle levels I think. Sentinel could help this a bit.

[djreynolds]

Hello everyone!

We're starting a new campaign and need a good front-line fighter to take some of the heat off caster party members. I wanted to go for a non-traditional "tank-ish" character, so I was wondering if someone could let me know if the build I'm thinking is viable, in addition to offering any critiques.

I'm variant Human. Per our house rules, stats are rolled up and can't be switched around. These are (before bonuses) Str(16), Dex (17), Con (16), Int (13), Wis (12), Cha (12).

I'm thinking of going Barb 3 (bear totem), Rogue 5 (Swashbuckler), Fighter 12 (either battle master or the new cavalier). Feats I'm considering are Sentinel and Shield Master, with other possibilities being Alert or Lucky. I'm hoping that, by starting with Rogue and Barb, I'll have some durability in early levels. Fighter would give me 2 extra attacks + action surge + second wind + either more stickiness with Cavalier or more options with Battlemaster + the extra ASIs.

Thoughts? Would this be viable throughout the career of this character?

Thanks in advance!! :-)

Easy_Lee has the iron scoundrel build

And just google savage duelist

These 2 builds are very influencial

But if you are using UA material brawny and squat nimbleness will allow you to get expertise in athletics without rogue and a 13 in dex

IMO you will need resilient wisdom, I cannot stress it enough, the DM I play with will target it.

The build looks great and I really like battlemaster maneuvers, and yes this build is very viable.

I'm currently playing a swashbuckler/battlemaster with shieldmaster. And I find I don't often need rakish audacity once I have proned an enemy, as I have advantage.

And reckless attack from barbarian will net you advantage

So perhaps consider arcane trickster if only for a little extra something?

Or Eldritch Knight for some spells? I understand the rage and magic issues, but you are not always in combat

In my build, I actually took a level of cleric because even with resilient wisdom I have failed many saves

But your build is very tanky and will do the job, just protect yourself from wisdom saves

[Spacehamster]

Hello everyone!

We're starting a new campaign and need a good front-line fighter to take some of the heat off caster party members. I wanted to go for a non-traditional "tank-ish" character, so I was wondering if someone could let me know if the build I'm thinking is viable, in addition to offering any critiques.

I'm variant Human. Per our house rules, stats are rolled up and can't be switched around. These are (before bonuses) Str(16), Dex (17), Con (16), Int (13), Wis (12), Cha (12).

I'm thinking of going Barb 3 (bear totem), Rogue 5 (Swashbuckler), Fighter 12 (either battle master or the new cavalier). Feats I'm considering are Sentinel and Shield Master, with other possibilities being Alert or Lucky. I'm hoping that, by starting with Rogue and Barb, I'll have some durability in early levels. Fighter would give me 2 extra attacks + action surge + second wind + either more stickiness with Cavalier or more options with Battlemaster + the extra ASIs.

Thoughts? Would this be viable throughout the career of this character?

Thanks in advance!! :-)

Would go 5 barb 3 rogue 12 fighter, that way you get your 2nd attack early, faster movement from barb and the same amount of total attacks in the end. :)

[Biggstick]

What purpose are the Fighter levels serving that Rogue or Barbarian levels couldn't? Personally, if you're looking to build a "Thug Tank," Barbarian/Rogue has everything you need. Go 5-6 levels of Barbarian, depending on if you want a 4th Rage (which I always do) and a 6th level ribbon ability (of which Bear of the Totem Path is amazing), and then go 14-15 levels of Rogue. I'd suggest Thief Rogue personally, as there is great flavor to be had with Fast Hands and the level 13 ability for Thief Rogues.

It's an incredibly tank build with a huge amount of potential movement speed (natural 40 move speed from Barbarian level 5, and Cunning Action on top of it makes it even better). It has amazing resilience if you go Bear Totem at level 3 (don't listen to other people who advise Wolf. Take care of yourself first, as it's hard to count on allies when they might not be able to keep up with your high speed).

[djreynolds]

I agree with Biggstick

But here is a thought for you S&B shield master, GWM type, or any weapon available

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If you are going S&B, more rogue and just get the extra attack from fighter or barbarian so you land that sneak attack

6 fighter/3 barbarian/ 11 rogue= 2 attacks, 6d6 SA damage got totem stuff and maneuvers

6 totem/3BM/11 rogue= same as above, you lose a feat, but 6 totem has some other stuff

6 berserker/3BM/11 rogue= same as above, mindless rage (immune to fear and charm)

Really just decide if you truly need shield master because it will tie you to S&B

Do you want to be stuck with a shield?

Too much rogue, and now you are weighing magic frostbrand long sword vs +1 dagger because of the finesse property and sneak attack

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For me, grabbing 3 attacks from fighter screams a heavy weapon and reckless attack and GWM

For me, shield master and S&B screams just 2 attacks and lots of sneak attack damage

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Or just get what you think you need from rogue, what do you really need here

Athletics and perception expertise
cunning action
fancy footwork and rakish audacity
uncanny dodge... awesome but uses your reaction that you may have used for riposte
evasion... somewhat redundant with shield master

But you see the line of thought here, the deeper you move into rogue, the tougher it is to walk away because every odd level that sneak attack damage goes up

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so really decide the weapon layout, and do you need rakish audacity, reckless attack and shield master as all 3 will aid in landing the sneak attack.

[Spacehamster]

What purpose are the Fighter levels serving that Rogue or Barbarian levels couldn't? Personally, if you're looking to build a "Thug Tank," Barbarian/Rogue has everything you need. Go 5-6 levels of Barbarian, depending on if you want a 4th Rage (which I always do) and a 6th level ribbon ability (of which Bear of the Totem Path is amazing), and then go 14-15 levels of Rogue. I'd suggest Thief Rogue personally, as there is great flavor to be had with Fast Hands and the level 13 ability for Thief Rogues.

It's an incredibly tank build with a huge amount of potential movement speed (natural 40 move speed from Barbarian level 5, and Cunning Action on top of it makes it even better). It has amazing resilience if you go Bear Totem at level 3 (don't listen to other people who advise Wolf. Take care of yourself first, as it's hard to count on allies when they might not be able to keep up with your high speed).

Curious why take so many rogue levels? I would prob go 16 barb 4 rogue(3 if you feel you can spare having 1 less ASI), gives tons more hp, better crits but still have a thuggish feel to it. :)

[Klorox]

You’re probably better off avoiding or minimizing those fighter levels. If you only want fighter for maneuvers, taking a few through a feat is less of a tax than 3 (or more) character levels.

More rogue levels or barbarian levels give you so much.

[prototype00]

Ever consider grappling? Thugs are great at grappling what with their combination of expertise on Athletics, Advantage on Athletics and the ability to knock foes on their ass with a bonus action via Shield Master. (I’d probably go more rogue as you aren’t going to be making as many attacks, you’d want the ones you do make to hurt!

[smcmike]

Curious why take so many rogue levels? I would prob go 16 barb 4 rogue(3 if you feel you can spare having 1 less ASI), gives tons more hp, better crits but still have a thuggish feel to it. :)

If you are actually using sneak attack, rogue levels are more attractive than barbarian levels. You lose out on some hit points, but evasion and uncanny dodge are both excellent defensive abilities.

[Citan]

Hello everyone!

We're starting a new campaign and need a good front-line fighter to take some of the heat off caster party members. I wanted to go for a non-traditional "tank-ish" character, so I was wondering if someone could let me know if the build I'm thinking is viable, in addition to offering any critiques.

I'm variant Human. Per our house rules, stats are rolled up and can't be switched around. These are (before bonuses) Str(16), Dex (17), Con (16), Int (13), Wis (12), Cha (12).

I'm thinking of going Barb 3 (bear totem), Rogue 5 (Swashbuckler), Fighter 12 (either battle master or the new cavalier). Feats I'm considering are Sentinel and Shield Master, with other possibilities being Alert or Lucky. I'm hoping that, by starting with Rogue and Barb, I'll have some durability in early levels. Fighter would give me 2 extra attacks + action surge + second wind + either more stickiness with Cavalier or more options with Battlemaster + the extra ASIs.

Thoughts? Would this be viable throughout the career of this character?

Thanks in advance!! :-)
Hi! ;)

Well, this will certainly be viable overall, but you will be waiting for a long time to get everything that is "core" to your character, especially Extra Attack.
Consider that if you start with Barb and Rogue, you will get Extra Attack at level 13 at the earliest!

Let me ponder a few things to make your life easier. :)
From what you have in mind, I have the feeling you don't want any magic to your character so I'll avoid any of those, only "martialish" things.

1. Shield Master
If you want to keep your initial progression, you really shouldn't take Shield Master: reason for that is as I said, you will have Extra Attack very very late. If you want to stay competitive with others, you will want another attack immediately, then you will need to go TWF.

2. Swashbuckler: the only thing you gain with this stats by selecting this archetype is the free disengage from attacking someone, and a +1 Initiative.
I get that you wanted this archetype for the fluff it bears, but honestly this is imo the worst choice of archetype for you, unless you planned to bump Charisma for some reason. Otherwise, I'd advise to instead go Mastermind (Help as a bonus action, up to 30 feet, can be "helpful" in many ways) or Thief (more mobility is nice, use an item as bonus action can be great or useless depending on your taste, BUT can be made golden simply by grabbing the Healer feat).

3. Uncanny Dodge: is a great tool for Rogue, less so for you as a tri-class.
As a Barbarian, you already have damage halved, and better AC than a plain Rogue. And using Uncanny Dodge would compete with at least OA (which would trigger more often with Sentinel), and Dex-saves AOE (if you pick Shield Master). Finally, Uncanny Dodge works only on one instance of damage.
So you have to think about your real priority...
- If your main priority is to keep one or two powerful enemies targeting you, and plan on using your speed and tactical awareness to make that happen (meaning you manage to have only those one or two enemies targeting you) then Uncanny Dodge can be a legitimate priority.
- If your main priority is to try and control enemy movement, then Uncanny Dodge is a potential trap: you will generally use either Shove+attack or Sentinel's OA to limit enemy movement, and Mobile/Swashbuckler will allow you to safely move out of their reach afterwhile, meaning only ranged attacks (there are covers for that, including a grappled creature) and DEX saves (idem, plus potential Shield Master) will be a real threat most of the time.
- If your main priority is to be as resilient as possible damage-wise while aggroing 3+ enemies on the regular, Uncanny Dodge won't cut it. You'd honestly better drop Rogue past 2 and forego some Fighter levels maybe to get Monk levels: Dodge as a bonus action, even if only a few times per short rest, will end much better. Or just go Fighter main as early as possible, picking Tough and either Healer or Inspiring Leader feats.

4. Tank options: tank means aggro as well as resilience. Sentinel is definitely one to take, Shield Master is also a good option but can ultimately be dismissed until much later (main benefit for you is "simili-Evasion", bonus action Shove can be used with TWF also). You will definitely want a Resilient feat too to cover Wisdom saves at some point.

Considering all that I suggest two ways...

Keep nearly your initial progression
Barbarian 1 > Fighter 1 > Rogue 1(or 2) > Barb 3 > whatever.
The idea here is to...
a) start with +1 in DEX (so starting 18) and +1 in WIS (preparing for later Resilient: Wisdom)
b) start with either Sharpshooter (for getting 60 feet range on thrown daggers) or Mobile (getting immediately extra mobility and free disengage).
In both cases, the idea is that you stay on top, always calculating the effective distance to be from enemies to draw some of the threat onto you while avoiding any overwhelming forces...
c) pick one level of Barbarian (raging resistance and STR advantage), one level of Fighter (TWF style) and Rogue (Athletics Expertise) to immediately get someone that can dish out two attacks in a turn and shove people effectively while pacing the threats that are locked onto him.
d) Either immediately grab another level of Rogue for Cunning Action if you think it would be useful, otherwise if you feel resilience is needed or you like keeping 2 attacks per turn immediately grab the Bear feature.

From there you can still go up to Rogue 5 right now as you wanted, then Fighter (getting Extra Attack at level 13, Improved Attack at 19). Or first pick Manoeuvers and Extra Attack, then Uncanny Dodge, then Improved Attack.

OR... Make a very different progression
Start Barbarian 1 > Rogue 1 > Fighter 5-6 > Barb 3 > whatever.
Same idea of taking one level of each to make at least partially your character online. Difference here is that you rush for Extra Attack.
The advantage here is that...
a) it's more flexible: you can go either S&B, picking Shield Master as your starting feat because you won't get other use for your bonus action for a long time anyways and you get Extra Attack "not too late", or still go TWF and get better damage earlier.
b) you can use Manoeuvers much much earlier, and those are very nice to use as a short-rest resource.
c) you still get all damage resistance soon enough (of course it's different in each game so YMMV, but in my experience, other than DEX-saves -which Shield Master can cover-, you will face little spellcasting until character level 6 so you won't have so long to wait from the moment you feel this would useful).
d) you can get another ASI much earlier by going Fighter 6 as a priority, so you can pick either Sentinel to be even better tank, or Healer feat to help healing now in anticipation of Thief archetype, or even grab a totally different feat (Inspiring Leader thanks to the stray +1 in CHA from VHuman, Resilient:Wisdom ealier with +1 in WIS, or even Martial Adept for one more die).

OR... Just drop the idea of getting Fighter's 3rd attack...
Which means you can pick Extra Attack much earlier, by picking it from Barbarian 5, and just grab basic Manoeuvers from Battlemaster 3, and then go Rogue up to 7 to get Uncanny Dodge AND Evasion.
Then Shield Master would be totally avoidable, and you can still get a feat progression not too different than normal...
Barbarian 1 > Rogue 2 > Barbarian 5 > Battlemaster 4 > Rogue 5 > whatever.

OR... Drop the idea of getting Fighter's 3rd attack AND Uncanny Dodge until late, and instead increase general resilience
So you can grab Monk levels with Variant Human's +1 in WIS. ;)
Barbarian 1 > Monk 1 > Rogue 2 > Barb 3 > Open Hand or Long Death Monk 8 > Rogue 5 > Barb 4 > Monk X...
You still get a bonus action, although unarmed, but you get many other things: obviously Extra Attack, but also much better movement (important for a melee), still Evasion, THP on kill (should happen right? ;)), Dodge as bonus action (extra tankiness) or FoB (extra damage or extra Shoves).

Have fun ;)