Looking for Advice on a Character for a Survival-Horror Game

[Dr. Cliché]

My group is doing a special Halloween session. It'll be a one-off involving a big mansion or such. The rules are:
- Lv7 characters
- Very strict/limited vision (we're all going to be separated at the start and may not even find one another)
- There will be no short rests (or long rests). However, we can use an action to spend a HD or attune to an item.
- All currently released material is allowed.

My question is, are there any classes/builds that you think would be good in this scenario?

[SaA]

will there be lots of Undead ?

then Undying Warlock is a good place to start

[Throne12]

will there be lots of Undead ?

then Undying Warlock is a good place to start

Warlock is out because he'll only have 2 spell to use the hole game.

[SaA]

Warlock is out because he'll only have 2 spell to use the hole game.

level 7 warlock gets 4 invocations

thats all you need for a super EB

thats + the benefits from whatever pact he takes

Hell at that level he could easily go V-Human and get Pole arm master , with a pole arm pact weapon, and sentinel and Still have a super powerful EB

or pact of the chain and have his Pet scout each room for him or go off on its own invisible to search for the other people

[nickl_2000]

A rogue would probably be best in this situation. They have very little that is rest dependent compared to all other classes. Plus, the ability to effectively hide in a horror type situation seems extremely useful for all.

I would personally play a Lightfoot Halfling. You can pretty much hide anywhere anytime. To heck with the rest of the party, a horror story is every person for themselves.



If you don't like that, a Moon Druid could be a decent place to go from a resource perspective. You have 2 Wild Shape form options that last 3 hours each and gives you a large HP pool to work with. Even if you are knocked out of Wild Shape form, you still have a full set of spells to work with that includes cannon fodder (summons).

[Trampaige]

Warlock is out because he'll only have 2 spell to use the hole game.

Everybody is going to be super limited with no rests, though.

Warlocks, however, get unlimited temporary hp with Fiendish Vigor. You can pretty much guarantee you're always going to have 8 temp hp while running around, and in a game where you only get 7HD to heal with, that is going to be huge. Agonizing blast gives you solid sustained damage, repelling blast keeps you and other people safe, and you have another invocation to play around with (probably devil's sight, because you'll probably need to be able to see well in the dark.)

[Dr. Cliché]

Would it be worth mixing a bit? e.g. having a few levels of Swashbuckler-rogue (for Cunning Action and Sneak Attack), and then having some levels of Fiend Warlock (for spells and Fiendish Vigour)?

[solidork]

Something to keep in mind if you go with a Rogue is that you should probably to pick a subclass that can sneak attack solo, which means Swashbuckler or Inquisitive.

[Sigreid]

Deep gnome abjurer wizard with their racial magic feat to recharge your ward at no resource cost.

[the_brazenburn]

Don't forget sorcerer! Obviously Wild Magic is too dangerous if you're alone, but sorcery points can keep giving you spells long after everyone else has burned through their resources. I suppose if you needed more melee potential, you could take a dip into Thief rogue, but sorcerer is a solid choice.

[Dr. Cliché]

Don't forget sorcerer! Obviously Wild Magic is too dangerous if you're alone, but sorcery points can keep giving you spells long after everyone else has burned through their resources. I suppose if you needed more melee potential, you could take a dip into Thief rogue, but sorcerer is a solid choice.

I had been considering a Phoenix Sorcerer - since this would be one of the few instances where the once-per-day limit on his main abilities wouldn't really matter.

[Mister_Squinty]

My group is doing a special Halloween session. It'll be a one-off involving a big mansion or such. The rules are:
- Lv7 characters
- Very strict/limited vision (we're all going to be separated at the start and may not even find one another)
- There will be no short rests (or long rests). However, we can use an action to spend a HD or attune to an item.
- All currently released material is allowed.

My question is, are there any classes/builds that you think would be good in this scenario?

At Level 7, a OOTA Paladin would get both auras. Huge saving throws, immune to disease, resistance to magic, 7 spell slots for Divine Smiting big nasties, 35 points of Lay on Hands, and Divine Sense.

[JellyPooga]

Let's break it down;


- Lv7 characters
This means you're only getting one Feat/ASI unless you go V.Human and/or Fighter. It also limits a lot of multiclass builds to a 5/2 or 6/1 split due to that significant power-bump at Class level 5 that most Classes enjoy. There are a couple of possible exceptions for a 4/3 split, but they are few.

- Very strict/limited vision (we're all going to be separated at the start and may not even find one another)
Solo capability is an issue.

- There will be no short rests (or long rests). However, we can use an action to spend a HD or attune to an item.
With no rests at all, Classes that have abilities that recharge on a Long Rest are preferable to ones that recharge on a Short Rest, if only because Long Rest abilities tend to be stronger than Short Rest ones.

With that in mind, I would suggest playing as a Bard.

As a team-player, playing a Bard may feel a little underwhelming due to being unable to use Bardic Inspiration until teaming up with another player. On the flipside, playing as a Bard may encourage other Players to actively seek you out, if possible. With more Skills than most others, as well as Expertise in any skill (unlike the Rogue, who has a more limited selection), a Bard may find the early solo portions of the game easy-breezy, on the assumption that skills=survival. With 4th level spells and Skills, the only place a Bard may fall down is in a straight up 1v1 fight due to relatively poor armour choices. Lore vs. Valour could be a hard choice; the former provides further proficiencies in Skills and 2 off-list spells, which further expands upon the strengths of the Bard in this scenario. Additionally, Cutting Words gives you the ability to use BI dice on your enemies, turning BI into a solo tool. The latter provides abilities that shore up the weaknesses of the core Bard; armour, weapons and Extra Attack turn that Core Bard into a true all-rounder; a very tempting prospect in a survival situation.

There are some other factors to consider; this is a survival-horror game after all:
1) Don't be slow. When it comes to survival, you only need to be faster than the slowest party member. This rules out Dwarf, Halfling and Gnome as Races. As good as they may be under normal circumstances, you probably don't want to be wasting a Feat or Spell slots compensating for that lack of speed. Wood Elf, as much as it doesn't enjoy the Charisma bonus we'd want as a Bard, does enjoy extra speed (check), enhanced Wisdom and free Perception proficiency (double check) and superior hiding capability in natural surrounds (possible extra check if things go outside the mansion). Bonus Dex never hurts (god stat, woo!) and resistance to Charm/immunity to Sleep may save your life.

2) Don't be the Good-guy. In survival horror it's not the noble hero that survives to the end; that guy usually dies early trying to protect someone else. A practical do-whatever-I-must attitude will keep you alive. That said, you don't need to be completely selfish; helping your team-mates is preferable to going solo. How does this affect our character choice? As a Bard, Healing magic is on the table, but yo-yo team-mates are probably just a way of delaying the inevitable; as such, I'd fly in the face of conventional 5ed wisdom and steer clear of the likes of Healing Word. If there's doubt that you'll ever team up with others, then party-buffs are probably also off the table (though personal or single-target buffs certainly are not).

[Ivor_The_Mad]

I think a ranger might be a good choice (Wood elf) because you might be able to track your friends and get some backup while also having the increased stealth to avoid enemies.

[EvilAnagram]

snip

I agree with everything but your conclusion. I would suggest a Cleric: War, Tempest, or Nature. They have better armor and more spells prepared, plus they work better with the Wood Elf ability boosts.

Also, radiant damage and Destroy Undead could easily be helpful.

[Quoxis]

Deep gnome abjurer wizard with their racial magic feat to recharge your ward at no resource cost.

Don't forget to throw in a level of fighter for heavy armor and martial weapons, that way you can use all kinds of neat loot and don't have to rely on mage armor and the shield spell. Extra points for investing the ASI in heavy armor master!

[EvilAnagram]

You know, a Drow Rogue would have good visibility and can just hide the entire time. Swashbuckling would be good for lone sneak attacks (as others have said), but Thief might be better for cowardice.

[JellyPooga]

I agree with everything but your conclusion. I would suggest a Cleric: War, Tempest, or Nature. They have better armor and more spells prepared, plus they work better with the Wood Elf ability boosts.

Also, radiant damage and Destroy Undead could easily be helpful.

I'm not convinced that having a good Save DC (or attack modifier) is as valuable in a survival horror scenario as it might be in a typical campaign; if the idea is that the bad-guy(s) are so strong that taking offensive action is tantamount to suicide, as may well be the case in a survival scenario, then your abilities want to be primarily defensive in nature and those typically don't require a good casting stat. Granted, a Cleric has a slightly better selection of defensive spells than a Bard, but Bards certainly don't have a lack in that department. Spells aside, the Cleric has little going for it unless (as you mention) Undead are a significant presence (and survival horror doesn't necessarily mean undead will be involved), whereas the Bard has superior Skills and little to no requirement for Strength unlike the Cleric, who might want a invest in Strength to take advantage of heavier armour types than are available to the Bard. This allows the Bard to invest more in other, more valuable, stats like Wisdom and Constitution.

[EvilAnagram]

I'm not convinced that having a good Save DC (or attack modifier) is as valuable in a survival horror scenario as it might be in a typical campaign; if the idea is that the bad-guy(s) are so strong that taking offensive action is tantamount to suicide, as may well be the case in a survival scenario, then your abilities want to be primarily defensive in nature and those typically don't require a good casting stat. Granted, a Cleric has a slightly better selection of defensive spells than a Bard, but Bards certainly don't have a lack in that department. Spells aside, the Cleric has little going for it unless (as you mention) Undead are a significant presence (and survival horror doesn't necessarily mean undead will be involved), whereas the Bard has superior Skills and little to no requirement for Strength unlike the Cleric, who might want a invest in Strength to take advantage of heavier armour types than are available to the Bard. This allows the Bard to invest more in other, more valuable, stats like Wisdom and Constitution.

If you aren't worried about casting stats, though, you can easily sneak by with a 14 Wis, Str, Con, and Dex, which will keep you as defensive as possible, with an athletics and acrobatics that can keep you moving no matter what.

Also, survival horror rarely involves going up against insurmountable foes. The meat of the genre is husbanding your limited resources against a powerful collective enemy.

[JellyPooga]

If you aren't worried about casting stats, though, you can easily sneak by with a 14 Wis, Str, Con, and Dex, which will keep you as defensive as possible, with an athletics and acrobatics that can keep you moving no matter what.

Also, survival horror rarely involves going up against insurmountable foes. The meat of the genre is husbanding your limited resources against a powerful collective enemy.

When I think survival-horror, my first thought is the film(s) Alien(s). Sure, Level 7 puts you on the same playing field as Hicks, Hudson and Vasquez, rather than Ripley, comparatively speaking, but look where that got them...

Opinions will differ and only the GM knows what kind of horror game this will be, but I wouldn't count on an offensive strategy being the best one.

[EvilAnagram]

When I think survival-horror, my first thought is the film(s) Alien(s). Sure, Level 7 puts you on the same playing field as Hicks, Hudson and Vasquez, rather than Ripley, comparatively speaking, but look where that got them...

Opinions will differ and only the GM knows what kind of horror game this will be, but I wouldn't count on an offensive strategy being the best one.

The genre is purely a gaming one. Resident Evil and Dino Crisis pretty much codified how survival horror works, and it works by asking the player to decide how best to use resources. Sure, Alien has an excellent survival horror video game, but the films are a separate entity.

Still, Alien: Isolation demonstrates this style has its place in the genre, so you make a decent point.

[JellyPooga]

The genre is purely a gaming one. Resident Evil and Dino Crisis pretty much codified how survival horror works, and it works by asking the player to decide how best to use resources. Sure, Alien has an excellent survival horror video game, but the films are a separate entity.

Still, Alien: Isolation demonstrates this style had its place

While I disagree that survival-horror is solely a gaming genre, I don't disagree that the game the OP will be participating in could be that style. If it is the style of survival-horror that involves surmountable foes and focuses on resource economy, then I'd still advocate Bard over Cleric, if only because a Bard has the "limitless resource" of more Skill proficiencies and Expertise. The only circumstances in which I'd advocate Cleric would be if I knew that the primary foe was Undead and/or I was starting the game with a party, because the Cleric has some strong party buffs that the Bard doesn't have access to (e.g. Bless, which loses much of its charm as solely a personal buff without allies to benefit from it as well).

[EvilAnagram]

While I disagree that survival-horror is solely a gaming genre, I don't disagree that the game the OP will be participating in could be that style. If it is the style of survival-horror that involves surmountable foes and focuses on resource economy, then I'd still advocate Bard over Cleric, if only because a Bard has the "limitless resource" of more Skill proficiencies and Expertise. The only circumstances in which I'd advocate Cleric would be if I knew that the primary foe was Undead and/or I was starting the game with a party, because the Cleric has some strong party buffs that the Bard doesn't have access to (e.g. Bless, which loses much of its charm as solely a personal buff without allies to benefit from it as well).

Good points, but survival horror (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survival_horror) is without question a genre of video game. It is defined by game mechanics, whereas film and literature necessarily are not. Clocktower is essentially a slasher film, but in translating the slasher genre to video games the creators made a survival horror game. You simply cannot have survival horror without asking the audience to make choices about resources, and games are the only medium in which the audience can make meaningful choices. Perhaps a choose-your-own adventure, but not a film.

[Demonslayer666]

My group is doing a special Halloween session. It'll be a one-off involving a big mansion or such. The rules are:
- Lv7 characters
- Very strict/limited vision (we're all going to be separated at the start and may not even find one another)
- There will be no short rests (or long rests). However, we can use an action to spend a HD or attune to an item.
- All currently released material is allowed.

My question is, are there any classes/builds that you think would be good in this scenario?

Cantrips seem really good in this situation but I would not want to play a caster in this scenario and be unable to regain any of my spells. The martial types would be good, sustainable damage and good HP.

I also think a rogue would be good because of the ability to hide.

Lots of stuff coming to mind, like druid animal form, but they keep requiring short rests.

Buy lots of healing potions!

[JellyPooga]

Good points, but survival horror (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survival_horror) is without question a genre of video game. It is defined by game mechanics, whereas film and literature necessarily are not. Clocktower is essentially a slasher film, but in translating the slasher genre to video games the creators made a survival horror game. You simply cannot have survival horror without asking the audience to make choices about resources, and games are the only medium in which the audience can make meaningful choices. Perhaps a choose-your-own adventure, but not a film.

I'll concede the point, but in the case of a film or literature, the cast (usually the protagonists) take the place of the audience/player when it comes to the use of resources and that the distinction between a survival horror film and, say, a slasher or "pure" horror film is that in the former there is that element of resource allocation. To go back to my first example, in Aliens Ripley and the Marines have to decide how to fortify the colony with barricades and automated turrets, who to issue weapons and ammo to and even who to send to call in the dropship while the others defend their position. It's a losing fight, because they're outnumbered and outmatched by their foes, but they (sort of) win through because they recognise that taking the offensive is functionally suicidal.

Given that the OP is participating in a roleplaying game and not a computer game, the game he's playing is far more open to interpretation than you might expect from a survival-horror video game in which, as a player, you might always expect to be able to "win" through appropriate use of resources. Reasonable fear is the friend of the participant of any horror genre and survival horror is no different.

[Dr. Cliché]

Buy lots of healing potions!

Just to address this, we'll be starting with basic items and will otherwise have to rely on what we find inside.

There's no 'stocking up' beforehand.

[MrStabby]

Shadowmonk.

Ok, downside is short rest dependant. Upside is you get 7 uses, which for niche encounters is good.

1) Survival horror. Odds of it being generally well lit are low. Shadowstep is almost always on.

2) You dont want to fight, you want to survive. The class excels in getting away from enemies it cant face. Bonus action dash, shadowstep and high movement is great.

3) Wisdom is a feature. Lots of really nasty wisdom saves when you are alone. Also perception when you can't rely on team mate to spot the evil ghost right in front of you.

4) Illusions. Just more tricks to avoid a fight.

Shadowmonk 6, light cleric 1 would be my preference. Light cleric:

1) Gives a broad range of spells. Not for everyday use but for those emergencies when you find the party druid face down bleeding out in the bottom of a creaky old wardrobe

2) Light might be useful in a horror setting.

3) Brings a bit or RP to the table - a light cleric in that situation might be good

4) Sacred flame. Endless radiant damage to support hit and run with monk shadowstep.

[8wGremlin]

OK what books are we allowed, and what if any UA articles?

Cantrip use would be important. at 7th level you'd have 2 EB, and with repelling blast that could be useful.

Flight might be a viable tactic, either winged Tiefling, Aarakocra, small size and an flying monkey/imp to carry you, or if magic items a broom of flying.

Ritual magic might be useful as a feat (at 7th level you can ritually cast 3rd level spells) - phantom steed, leomund's tiny hut etc.. but requires 10 mins of un-interruption to finish it. but Leomund's could save you for 8 hours!

You could also look at Soul Knife mystic, they get back 2 pp everytime they kill

Goblin might be good for dex, con and bonus action disengage, to get the hell out of dodge.

I'm going to think about this...

[Unoriginal]

My group is doing a special Halloween session. It'll be a one-off involving a big mansion or such. The rules are:
- Lv7 characters
- Very strict/limited vision (we're all going to be separated at the start and may not even find one another)
- There will be no short rests (or long rests). However, we can use an action to spend a HD or attune to an item.
- All currently released material is allowed.

My question is, are there any classes/builds that you think would be good in this scenario?

Do you know what the adventurers' goals will be in this one shot?

Explore the mansion? Survive 'til morning? Kill the big boss?

Because each requires different strategies, and so different characters to pull them off optimally.


First advice, though:

If not in group, a PC is far more fragile. A monster whose CR is 1/4 your level will likely be a noticeable, if not necessarily incredible, challenge, and if there are several who can attack you you're going to feel it.


Without more info, I get the impression that a Tabaxi Rogue archer will be your best bet, as long as you can run from danger.

After all:


https://youtu.be/GkNask_pMKo

[Dudewithknives]

Some things you will really want or even need.

1. Darkvision.

2. Do not drop dex, Stealth will be huge.

3. Have oh crap buttons, to escape.

4. So not be a 1 trick pony. Resistances can get you killed fast if the enemy takes half damage and it is really all you can do.

5. Long rest abilities are better than short ones. No resources are viable but be careful.

6. Multiple travel options can be huge.

7. Ranged is just plain better than melee for survival.

I suggest:

Race:
Tabaxi: climb speed, great stats, proficient in 2 skills that are super useful, and darkvision.

Class:
Warlock 5, Pact of chain fiend patron, rogue 2.
Fiend patron should keep you supplied in thp.
Expertise in perception and stealth, don't worry about the 1d6 sneak, stick to eldritch blast.

Invocations: Repelling blast, agonizing blast and devils sight.

Imp from pact of the chain: flying invisible scout that can telepathically communicate, and can take the help action.

Play keep way: 2 Eldritch Blasts that repel 10 feet each, bonus action Disengage or dash to climb 60 feet up a wall or just move further away. Nothing you should encounter should ever resist force.

Keep you spell slots for the oh crap situation of needing to counterspell or cast darkness or even armor of Agathys if things get on you somehow.

Fight like a coward, it works.

If when you day currently released you mean that UA is ok, this would be totally different

[Avonar]

If you would be allowed to use the Revised Ranger, then I'd recommend Beast Master. If you're going to be solo, have two bodies instead of one.

[Dudewithknives]

If you would be allowed to use the Revised Ranger, then I'd recommend Beast Master. If you're going to be solo, have two bodies instead of one.

Yes, and as a kobold archer.

[Asmotherion]

My group is doing a special Halloween session. It'll be a one-off involving a big mansion or such. The rules are:
- Lv7 characters
- Very strict/limited vision (we're all going to be separated at the start and may not even find one another)
- There will be no short rests (or long rests). However, we can use an action to spend a HD or attune to an item.
- All currently released material is allowed.

My question is, are there any classes/builds that you think would be good in this scenario?

-If you're going for some place with no light, be sure to have Darkvision. I'll expand on it latter.

-No short/long rests means you're probably better off relling on abilities that are at-will or that are spell-economic. This means that, if you plan on playing a Caster, you're probably better off with an Eldritch Blasting Warlock (Undying was suggested, and seems a very good Patron indeed for this situation), than relying on limited resources like fireballs. With Warlock you can also get the Devil Sight invocation, to even see in magical Darkness, wich is a big plus, as in a horror themed one shot it's sure to come up eventually. If not a (dedicated) caster, optimise based on at-will capacity, instead of limited resources. If you're not sure if you'll be able to actually recover arrows, avoid any kind of Archer Build, as "you're out of arrows, and those used are broken" is something I would use on a survival game, to force my players to come up with new tacktiks.

-If you decide to go for a caster, good choices are those that deal Fire, Radiant or Force Damage, as a lot of undead have trouble with these Damage types. Some are vulnerable to Fire Damage (if I remember Correctly), Radiant is always effective against Undead, and Force Damage, wile it's not something 100% official, but it used to affect uncorporeal Undead normally, even if they are on the Ethereal Plane (?). The last bit is up to your DM, but we play it like this with my group, as per the "Wall of Force" description.

-I'll probably give an actual build in a latter post, but for now those are some basic guidlines I'd look into. Hope my post was helpfull. :)

[Laserlight]

Any class with firebolt. Burn a hole in the wall, and the next wall, until the mansion is out of walls. Leave.

Alternately, burn a hole in the ceiling, etc. Cast Fly, then leave.

Granted this might be problematic for the rest of the party, as the mansion burns around them.

[8wGremlin]

I've had a think, and I quite like the following:

Winged feral tiefling urchin. revised ranger 1, mystic (either Soulknife, or order of the immortal)
flight is uber in some instances, might not be in the mansion.

The ranger has advantage with Initiative and Favoured enemy: Undead for an extra +2 damage per hit.

Your mind blades are 1d8 martial melee weapons that do psychic damage, they are both light and finessable, and you can create a second one with a bonus action, for some TWF. also you can as a bonus action, prepare to use the blades to parry; you gain a +2 bonus to AC until the start of your next turn

Take Mind Thrust, and Blind spot as your talents.
Mind thrust will be your go to ranged attack 120' 2d10 psychic damage INT save

For disciplines:
Precognition - you can have Danger Sense (5 psi; conc., 8 hr.). As an action, you create a psychic model of reality in your mind and set it to show you a few seconds into the future. Until your concentration ends, you can’t be surprised, attack rolls against you can’t gain advantage, and you gain a +10 bonus to initiative

This coupled with the Revised rangers, advantage with initiative, should mean that you should go first.

Mastery of light and darkness - the shadows could be useful, plus your Psychic Focus is useful: While focused on this discipline, natural and magical darkness within 30 feet of you has no effect on your vision.

Psionic Restoration - you're now able to heal yourself and others with pp, which you can gain 2 per enemy you kill with your soul knives. plus you can now bring someone back from the dead, if you have too.

[Pope Scarface]

For a survival horror game, my recommendation would be not to optimize your character for combat effectiveness. If stand and fight is a consistently viable option, then you have not succeeded at playing a survival-horror game, you've succeeded at changing the genre to something else.

More specifically, I'd focus on defense and mobility rather than offensive abilities, so you are better at surviving and running.

[8wGremlin]

For a survival horror game, my recommendation would be not to optimize your character for combat effectiveness. If stand and fight is a consistently viable option, then you have not succeeded at playing a survival-horror game, you've succeeded at changing the genre to something else.

More specifically, I'd focus on defense and mobility rather than offensive abilities, so you are better at surviving and running.

Good advice. But then why play D&d there are way better games that are specifically this.

[Pope Scarface]

#1 reason is probably not wanting to learn a new rules system. I'd go with QAGS for a horror game, honestly. Or something else super rules-light where there isn't much room for optimization.

[Dr. Cliché]

Any class with firebolt. Burn a hole in the wall, and the next wall, until the mansion is out of walls. Leave.

Alternately, burn a hole in the ceiling, etc. Cast Fly, then leave.

Somehow, I don't think this will work. :smalltongue:


Do you know what the adventurers' goals will be in this one shot?

Explore the mansion? Survive 'til morning? Kill the big boss?

I believe survival (and probably escape) will be the main goal.

[Asmotherion]

At level 7, a nice build would be:

Dragon Sorcerer 3: 4 Cantrips (Chill touch for it's secondary bonus might be interesting, Fire bolt as well, and Scag Cantrips as you'll actually be able to be good in melee. Not awesome, but good.), AC Bonus when you're not wearing Armor (you might loose the Armor you have in a survival game), and nice spells for the few turns you won't be Eldritch Blasting/Healing. Finally, you do get the awesomeness of being able to cast Shield once in a Wile, that can prevent you from dying some times.

Warlock 3: (Fiend Pact can help you survive, Undying is also a good option though for this specific game) with Agonising Blast and Devil Sight (Repelling Blast would be an other good invocation if you decide to go deeper into Warlock, as it keeps things away from you). Pact of the Tome gives you Shillelagh, and two othe cantrips of choice to add to your repertoire. Armor of Agathys is always nice to Have, though if you go with the Fiend Patron, it might not work so well depenting on how your DM rules what happens when you're out of Temporary HP and gain some more, and the time of AoA is still running. I'm also agains using Hex in this specific case, as it deals Necrotic Damage, and it's probably not going to work. Better use your Concentration Slot for Shield of Faith (see bellow)

War Cleric 1: Proficiency in all Armor, including Heavy Armor, Martial Weapons (Still, if you're using Shillelagh, you can only use a Club/Quorterstuff) and Shields, 3 cantrips including Sacred Flame that deals Radiant Damage and that forces a Dexterity Save (Zombies suck at Dex Saves), you get full caster spell progression, and a lot of nice spells that can help survivability like Shield of Faith, Healing spells, and finnally a Channel Divinity against Undead! What's not to love?

Works best in a Party with a full Paladin, and a Cleric or Druid, as well as a possible 4th member that would be melee oriented.

Suggested Stats:
Prioritise Charisma, if possible make it 20
Put everything else in Constitution
If you have any leftovers, it goes to Dexterity.
PS: Keep in mind you need a minimum Wisdom of 13 to multiclass into War Cleric.

That's my suggested build. Overall, you can easily get an AC of 24, that goes up to 29 when you cast Shield (which you activate when you are actually hit by something, aka very rarelly, and it lasts 'till the start of your next turn)... Virtually imune to being hit. If you have Armor of Agathys on as well, being hit is a win-win situation for you, as it will either eventually not hit you, or hit you and damage the enemy as well. If your DM goes with the Devil Patron->Armor of Agathys Refuel interaction option, it's very powerfull.

Also, remember you won't always be in melee, as it's optional. Since there won't be short rests, Armor of Agathys duration should probably be enough I think? Anyway, I hope you like it. :)

[Trampaige]

That's my suggested build. Overall, you can easily get an AC of 24

Where's the other 2 AC coming from while you're concentrating on shield of faith?


I keep seeing people talk about how the Fiend+AoA combination is very powerful if your DM allows it. Of course it's powerful, because it's blatantly against the rules. You may as well let someone concentrate on two spells at once.


Healing can’t restore temporary hit points, and they
can’t be added together. If you have temporary hit points
and receive more of them, you decide whether to keep
the ones you have or to gain the new ones. For example,
if a spell grants you 12 temporary hit points when you
already have 10, you can have 12 or 10, not 22.


You gain 5 temporary hit points for the duration. If a
creature hits you with a melee attack while you have
these hit points, the creature takes 5 cold damage.

[Dr. Cliché]

@Asmotherion Sorry if this is a silly question but how are you getting to AC24 with that build?

[Asmotherion]

Where's the other 2 AC coming from while you're concentrating on shield of faith?


I keep seeing people talk about how the Fiend+AoA combination is very powerful if your DM allows it. Of course it's powerful, because it's blatantly against the rules. You may as well let someone concentrate on two spells at once.

On your first point, I calculate 20 AC from Heavy Armor+2 from using a Shield, +2 from Shield of Faith. I think that's about the limit I can think of?

On your second point: The reason why it is a very supported build is for 2 reasons:

1) Because in the spell description, it is unclear if "These hit points" refear to the specific Temporaty hit points given by the spell, or Temporary Hit Points in general.

2) Further enhancing/supporting the second belief is the fact that the Fiend Warlock Ability and the Invocation that allows to cast "False Life" at-will are design as a pseudo-mechanic to allow this kind of interaction.

Wile I am aware that Raw has been ruled otherwise, I still have faith that some DMs rule it this way (I do for instance), as it does make sence to me. It is not a direct violation of the rules; more like an unclear grey area that will be ruled against in AL, but is left up to the DM to rule it in each table. And it's a perfect fit for a survival game in any case :)

PS: It's AC 22, not 24... sorry for the misunderstanding XD I rarelly use Armor as a Player as I play Casters, so I confused the thing.

[Dr. Cliché]

Just a point but only basic equipment is allowed, so I'd only be able to start with Chain Mail (and then only if I can take the starting equipment from the Cleric), rather than full plate or such.

[Dudewithknives]

On your first point, I calculate 20 AC from Heavy Armor+2 from using a Shield, +2 from Shield of Faith. I think that's about the limit I can think of?

On your second point: The reason why it is a very supported build is for 2 reasons:

1) Because in the spell description, it is unclear if "These hit points" refear to the specific Temporaty hit points given by the spell, or Temporary Hit Points in general.

2) Further enhancing/supporting the second belief is the fact that the Fiend Warlock Ability and the Invocation that allows to cast "False Life" at-will are design as a pseudo-mechanic to allow this kind of interaction.

Wile I am aware that Raw has been ruled otherwise, I still have faith that some DMs rule it this way (I do for instance), as it does make sence to me. It is not a direct violation of the rules; more like an unclear grey area that will be ruled against in AL, but is left up to the DM to rule it in each table. And it's a perfect fit for a survival game in any case :)

PS: It's AC 22, not 24... sorry for the misunderstanding XD I rarelly use Armor as a Player as I play Casters, so I confused the thing.

You can't have 2 sources of temporary HP. If you have 15 THP from Armor of Agathys left out of 30, and kill someone as a fiend, you do not gain back more THP, you just get to pick the highest amount. So as soon as the last THP form AoA is gone the spell ends.

There are ways to scam things out to make it last longer but that requires multiclassing and gets rather odd.

Also when a spell gives you THP and then refers to "these hit points" only a powergamer who is trying to break the rules would think it meant any THP.

Also your above build of Sorcerer 3/Warlock 3/ War Cleric 1 does not have full spell progression. Warlock levels do not count toward other spell levels so you are only a level 4 caster, your cantrips will act as if you are level 7 but your spells known will be a level 4 normal caster who has up to level 2 slots but knows only level 1 spells for cleric, and your warlock spell slots are completely independent.

[Asmotherion]

Just a point but only basic equipment is allowed, so I'd only be able to start with Chain Mail (and then only if I can take the starting equipment from the Cleric), rather than full plate or such.
Hmmm, difficult... Can't you trade equal value of equipment for it? The Scholar's Pack Costs 40 GP, and you can "sell" some more of your equipment for it... Since you're supposed to be level 7, it seems logical to have had an opportunity to have a bit of trading.

If not, then just put some more dexterity (I don't know your point buy/rolls, but since it's a one shot based on survival, I'll asume a big number), and with Dragonic Origin you get a Decent AC either way...

Finally, If you're willing to sacrifice some spellcasting, you can go Paladin at first level for it, but War Cleric would loose it's meaning. This would mean it would be more optimal to go Paladin/Warlock for more or less the same benefits, but less spellcasting and more Madness.


You can't have 2 sources of temporary HP. If you have 15 THP from Armor of Agathys left out of 30, and kill someone as a fiend, you do not gain back more THP, you just get to pick the highest amount. So as soon as the last THP form AoA is gone the spell ends.

There are ways to scam things out to make it last longer but that requires multiclassing and gets rather odd.

Also when a spell gives you THP and then refers to "these hit points" only a powergamer who is trying to break the rules would think it meant any THP.

Also your above build of Sorcerer 3/Warlock 3/ War Cleric 1 does not have full spell progression. Warlock levels do not count toward other spell levels so you are only a level 4 caster, your cantrips will act as if you are level 7 but your spells known will be a level 4 normal caster who has up to level 2 slots but knows only level 1 spells for cleric, and your warlock spell slots are completely independent.

I know all the above, thank you very much... I am refering to Cleric and Sorcerer Spellcasting Progression.

Temporary HP does not need to stack in order for AoA to be an interesting ability/Spell. I never suggested that they did. I only suggested that, wile AoA time has not ended, if the caster has temporary HP, melee attackers take damage equal to the temporary HP.

-Interesting? Sure!
-Up to the DM? Sure!
-Broken? I don't think so!

If that's so hard for you to understand, then you're probably a closed minded person, biased to anything that's even a bit out of the box, and are very quick to put labels on people like "power gamer", when this thread was made specifically asking for a build focusing on survivability, and for a fun one-shot between friends, not something official for A.L. were rules would be depending on the DM running the Table.

[8wGremlin]

Actually I think, something like a goblin moon druid urchin, might be good for this.

Goblin for the bonus actions Disengage and Hide (usable in any form!)
Moon Druid for the shapechange and spells (see below)
Urchin for Stealth.

Perception would be good, and perhaps the observant feat to make that 15 wis a 16 and push your passive perception to 21!

Spells of note:

Healing
Longstrider, +10 movement
Pass without trace, +10 stealth for you and the party
Moonbeam!
Meld with stone, 8 hours of safety in the stone floor, possibly?
Polymorph!


Plus 6 hours of being a tiny spider /rest