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Kiyona
2007-08-16, 01:32 AM
Hi!

Sick of getting my ass totally kicked when playing healbot or any type of arcane caster I have decided to play a meleetype PC in my next game.

So, Ive been looking at werewolfs. Mostly because I love the fluff. ^^

But, Im not alowed to play one since its chaotic evil. But I seem to remember
that there is, in fact, a type of CG werewolfs as well. Worshipping Selune maybe...

As I cant remeber in what book I read about it, I cant show it to my DM...

Can you give me a few pointers perhaps? :smallsmile:

Solo
2007-08-16, 01:36 AM
How are you getting your ass kicked as a healbot or arcane caster?

What I'm thinking is that you may be using poor tactics/strategy that gets you into trouble.

Whatever you build, you'll want to make sure you've got the right strategy and tactics at hand for it.

Know thy enemy, know thy self.

Douglas
2007-08-16, 01:37 AM
Werebears are lawful good. Wereboars and weretigers are neutral.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-08-16, 01:39 AM
If you look under the template you can see that the CE alignment is not mandatory.


Alignment: Any. Noble creatures such as bears, eagles, and lions tend to produce good-aligned lycanthropes. Sinister creatures such as rats, snakes, and wolves tend to produce evil-aligned lycanthropes. This is a reflection of how these animals are perceived, not any innate quality of the animal itself, so the alignment of the animal form can be arbitrarily assigned.

Paragon Badger
2007-08-16, 01:43 AM
Didn't you ever watched the last season of Angel? ;-)

Good-aligned lycanthrope that feels guilty everytime it's that time of the month. :smallamused:

Kiyona
2007-08-16, 01:48 AM
How are you getting your ass kicked as a healbot or arcane caster?

Well... i dont really know actually. But generally with this DM the melee types kick ass whilst the normally very powerfull casters keep being killed. Over and over again...


If you look under the template you can see that the CE alignment is not mandatory.

It is?? Oh, thats great. ^^ Then Its probably the DM that doesnt want me to play one... Lets hope he just doesnt know what hes talking about.:smallbiggrin:

Solo
2007-08-16, 01:50 AM
How does he kill casters? Does he target them out for special attention when enemies attack or something?

Perhaps you should talk with your DM about the unfair treatment of casters. Communication is important.

Oh, and as for the DM not knowing that there can be good aligned lycathropes, I didn't know either, so he could have made and honest mistake.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-08-16, 01:53 AM
It is?? Oh, thats great. ^^ Then Its probably the DM that doesnt want me to play one... Lets hope he just doesnt know what hes talking about.:smallbiggrin:

Well, if he insists there is always the Weretiger or maybe Wereeagle.

MrNexx
2007-08-16, 02:06 AM
There are the lythari... CG elven werewolves who can only pass on their affliction to willing elves. They're in Monsters of Faerun, and mentioned in Races of Faerun.

Kiyona
2007-08-16, 02:18 AM
How does he kill casters? Does he target them out for special attention when enemies attack or something?

Perhaps you should talk with your DM about the unfair treatment of casters. Communication is important.

Oh, and as for the DM not knowing that there can be good aligned lycathropes, I didn't know either, so he could have made and honest mistake.

The thing is, im a beginner... so i dont have the best strategies. But as soon as one of my spells fails (and they do, often... ***ing will saves ^^) the enemy realises me being the caster and as such the highest threat. Blinking in right next to me and smash.... nothing left but a puddle of blood. Casters doesnt have very good HP. ^^

Maybe I should talk to him... but I really think the problem is me not being experienced enough to play a beguiler (as I did the last time) well.

Wereeagle?? That sounds strange... :smallbiggrin:
Do they get wings?


There are the lythari... CG elven werewolves who can only pass on their affliction to willing elves. They're in Monsters of Faerun, and mentioned in Races of Faerun.

Oh, that was what I was looking for. Thanks, now Im gonna go show it to my DM. :smallbiggrin:

JadedDM
2007-08-16, 02:20 AM
Wereravens are also good (NG, I believe) although I'm uncertain if they were ever converted to 3E or not.

I do believe wereboars are also good in alignment.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-08-16, 02:21 AM
Wereeagle?? That sounds strange... :smallbiggrin:
Do they get wings?


Only in animal form, but it is great for utility and travel.

Zincorium
2007-08-16, 02:55 AM
The thing is, im a beginner... so i dont have the best strategies. But as soon as one of my spells fails (and they do, often... ***ing will saves ^^) the enemy realises me being the caster and as such the highest threat. Blinking in right next to me and smash.... nothing left but a puddle of blood. Casters doesnt have very good HP. ^^

Well, playing a caster is a bit of an art, and there's always room for improvement (logic ninja may, I repeat, may be an exception to that).

First off, against legitimate foes who aren't the BBEG, your save DCs should be high enough that failures are rare. Look at improving your main stat and use high level spells, and then realize that you should target your opponent's weak saves. This doesn't have to mean metagaming, trying fortitude saves on an ogre should be an obviously bad idea, whereas will saves make sense 'cause it's dumb as heck.

'Blinking in right next to you' should be a very uncommon occurrence, if it's happening all the time without explanation, your DM is being a ****, pure and simple, and you need to let him know it'd be nice if you didn't get attacked unreasonably.

Lastly, while the hit points are kind of a hard thing to increase without Prcs, constitution should be your 2nd highest stat next to your primary spellcasting, for the fortitude bonus as well as the bonus. Playing to the 'casters are frail' stereotype only hurts you. As well, figuring out a way to use armor while minimizing arcane spell failure is a solid tactic, mithril chain shirts with the PHB2's twilight enchantment are perfect for the average caster as non proficiency means nothing since they have no armor check penalty (read the armor proficiency feats in the PHB to see the exact rules, you can wear any armor without proficiency but there are penalties based off the armor check penalty).

Solo
2007-08-16, 03:17 AM
If you go Cleric, you can have an AC rivaling that of the fighter, good hit points, good fort and will saves, and access to so many good combat spells.... scratch that, access to so many good spells.

Divine Favor, Magic Weapon (and Greater Magic Weapon), Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance, Shield of Faith, Protection from Evil...

Then there's Domain Powers, which bring a whole new level of awesome to play.

"Oh crap, I failed the save. I guess I'm dead now... but wait! I can reroll one dice roll once per day!" - Luck Domain.

Also, obligatory link when arcane casters are mentioned in any thread:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18500

Kiyona
2007-08-16, 03:54 AM
If you go Cleric, you can have an AC rivaling that of the fighter, good hit points, good fort and will saves, and access to so many good combat spells.... scratch that, access to so many good spells.

Divine Favor, Magic Weapon (and Greater Magic Weapon), Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance, Shield of Faith, Protection from Evil...

Then there's Domain Powers, which bring a whole new level of awesome to play.

"Oh crap, I failed the save. I guess I'm dead now... but wait! I can reroll one dice roll once per day!" - Luck Domain.

Also, obligatory link when arcane casters are mentioned in any thread:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18500

Haha, yeah... I played a priest in the WOW D20 once. But they are not at all that powerful. ^^ Clerics and paladins are banned from this game actually... wanted to play cleric. =(

So, what Im playing now is a beguiler working as caster/skillmonkey and healbot (UMD). With a pseudodragon rogue cohort also capable of UMD when I go below 0 HP.

That isnt working at all since all my spells require will saves. Last session I tried all I could to boost my DC, but that wasnt enough. And I mentioned it to the DM who says that the only reason all bad guys made their saves is that he got lucky rolls.... But he always roll absurdly well. Hate his dice. ^^

So... I have now given up. Want to play a big stupid melee wolf who kills people with direct damage. :smallbiggrin:

I actually have a quite nice mental image already. ^^

lord_khaine
2007-08-16, 04:57 AM
well the case is lycantrope isnt a standart race, and it requires special permission from the gm to play one.

the next best(better) thing is to play a druid, they got lots of good things going for them, full caster, medium BAB, decent HP and wildshape.

Kioran
2007-08-16, 05:16 AM
I think there was a PrC somewhere out there which allowed you to "master" your were-aspect as an afflicted were, without changing your alignment. Prerequisite is making all will saves against alignment changes until you qualifiy for the PrC - but I canīt find it. Does anybody know where itīs from?

Kurald Galain
2007-08-16, 06:11 AM
It's quite funny how the MM simply assumes a priori that bears are noble whereas wolves are sinister. Animal psychologists would disagree.

Kurald Galain
2007-08-16, 06:19 AM
So, what Im playing now is a beguiler working as caster/skillmonkey and healbot (UMD). ... That isnt working at all since all my spells require will saves.

Beguilers are a very awesome class. If the bad guys always get lucky rolls, I suspect likewise that your DM is a ****. But depending on their level, beguilers have a number of alternatives like illusions (minor image and such), buffing the party, Shadow Evocation, and taking extra spells via the Arcane Disciple feat.

Kiyona
2007-08-16, 06:33 AM
Beguilers are a very awesome class. If the bad guys always get lucky rolls, I suspect likewise that your DM is a ****. But depending on their level, beguilers have a number of alternatives like illusions (minor image and such), buffing the party, Shadow Evocation, and taking extra spells via the Arcane Disciple feat.

I thought that they looked awesome as well. ^^ Hm... doesnt shadow evocation requires will save as well?? I tried throwing an ice spell (dont remeber the name) at a red dragon... and he got a will save. Only took 20%of the original damage.

But still, I want to play a werewolf. ^^ Does lythari get a hybrid form as well? Or only normal wolf form?

The Prince of Cats
2007-08-16, 06:47 AM
How does he kill casters? Does he target them out for special attention when enemies attack or something?

Perhaps you should talk with your DM about the unfair treatment of casters. Communication is important.
My group are all veterans of Shadowrun; we know the cry - "Geek the mage first!" - and it has served us well...

MrNexx
2007-08-16, 08:46 AM
My group are all veterans of Shadowrun; we know the cry - "Geek the mage first!" - and it has served us well...

There is that... and beguilers aren't a heavy defense class.

leperkhaun
2007-08-16, 08:47 AM
The thing is, im a beginner... so i dont have the best strategies. But as soon as one of my spells fails (and they do, often... ***ing will saves ^^) the enemy realises me being the caster and as such the highest threat. Blinking in right next to me and smash.... nothing left but a puddle of blood. Casters doesnt have very good HP. ^^

Maybe I should talk to him... but I really think the problem is me not being experienced enough to play a beguiler (as I did the last time) well.

:smallbiggrin:

since you are new to DnD and casters. Sit down and read all your potental spells. One of the key things about bieng a caster is selecting the right spells. Putting fireball and lightening in all your spell slots isnt a good idea. Besides the blasting spells you need escape and some utility spells.

When selecting your spells check out what saves they allow. Its a good idea to have a mix of spells that dont allow saving throws, use reflex, use fort, and use will saves.

Before you sling a spell think for a second if that guy is likely to save against it. For example, That big burly warrior of doom is likly to save against your disintigration (since more warrior types have good fort saves), but will probably fail a will save (from say a dominate or hold spell). On the other hand that frail wizardly type will more likely fail your disintigrate than your dominate.

Like wise carry around a wand or two of ray of enfebblement. Nothing like taking away that melee monster's damage and attack way down and then making it helpless after a couple rounds. In this direction keep some wands (and eventually rods and staffs) on you at all times. Iv found that having a wand of something greatly helps.

A wand of fireball means you can still hurl doom without worrying about your spells later on. Got a locked door that has been arcane locked so you cant open it? Bust out the wand of shatter, and make a hole NEXT to the door and use that as a door. Got 200 ft of lava you have to cross and no way to get there and only levitate prepared? That wand of Tenser's floating disk helps get your friends across.

Get a wand of fly and greater invisibility. Nothing worse than a mage hurling doom from 700 ft in the air, you cant see him, and he has protection against arrows.

When looking at spells remember to look at combinations. For a super simple example, use flesh to stone then shatter.

Ready your actions. Mr. So and So charges you.....well you had readied our action so instead of charging into you he hits a prismatic wall.......

MrNexx
2007-08-16, 08:49 AM
I love how many people are, instead of answering her question, instead trying to guide her to play an optimized beguiler.

Kiyona
2007-08-16, 08:59 AM
I love how many people are, instead of answering her question, instead trying to guide her to play an optimized beguiler.

Hehe, yeah... I think the common view is that beguilers and other casters rock... and fighters doesnt. ^^
Do you know wether the lythari get hybrid form?

But, any advice is good since I will be playing at least one more time before I am alowed to change PC.


leperkhaun

Those are really good advice. :smallsmile:
Some points I cant follow though, beguilers doesnt prepare spells... and has almost no spells that require saves other than will.

The wand thing is great on the other hand. ^^ I already hav one of CLW, but I never thought of carry other types of wands. I think my beguiler will have to go on a shopping spree when we get back to town. :smallbiggrin:

leperkhaun
2007-08-16, 09:19 AM
Hmmmm forgot to mention i was talking about mostly core spell casters...the wizards and spell casters who do prepare spells.

As to beguiler, im not very familer with that class, hehe sorry i skipped a couple posts in the thread :smallbiggrin:

Just remember to try to mix things up in your selection of abilities and what you do. If you cant hurl doom, have a thing or two that can either help your buddies or hinder your enemies. Sometimes making things a pain for the enemy can be just as good or better than hurling doom.

One of the things about casters is just knowing what they can do. Most of this will come from experiance as you play, learning what spells/abilities are good for getting "around" the way things are suppose to be done.

Have fun with the beguiler.

lord_khaine
2007-08-16, 09:23 AM
actualy the wand of fireball isnt that good an idea, the dc on it suck, and for a basic wand the damage will be lousy (5d6).
if you wizard is still alive you might consider casting a defence spell before you start to nuke thing, like fx mirror image or improved invisibility.

as for the werewolf thingy, now that i think about it, there is a class in the eberon book, weretouched master that will allow you to be a werewolf without changing aligment.

Leliel
2007-08-16, 09:34 AM
Wereravens are also good (NG, I believe) although I'm uncertain if they were ever converted to 3E or not.
They are!?
Whoohoo! I can play my dream character!

Leliel
2007-08-16, 09:36 AM
It's quite funny how the MM simply assumes a priori that bears are noble whereas wolves are sinister. Animal psychologists would disagree.
I agree. QFT.
Speaking of wolves, shoudn't they be Lawful Aligned? Pack animals, and all that.

Tyger
2007-08-16, 09:42 AM
Yes, unfortunately the DM is final arbiter of the Were classes, and it sounds as though this DM is already being a bit tight in the freedom department (not only "rolling" so as to frustrate you, but also forbiding clerics and paladins (though one would question the no paladin decision!)) he may well stick to the alignment restrictions of the Were critters even if he allows weres in the first place.

If that is the case, definitely go with a good aligned one. Bears, eagles, and lions are the ones noted in the MM, but any supposedly "good" critter would qualify. Tigers, apes, hawks, etc all good choices.

Remember, there will be a LA and animal HD involved as well, so choose wisely. Sure, it sounds great to play a Were-tiger, but when you factor in the +3 LA and the 6 HD of tiger... your level 10 character is only a level 1 fighter. Granted, a level 1 fighter with high Str, DR 10 / Silver, and all the other goodness.

The were-wolf in our party is kind of getting shafted on his lycanthropy... so just be aware.

MrNexx
2007-08-16, 09:45 AM
Hehe, yeah... I think the common view is that beguilers and other casters rock... and fighters doesnt. ^^
Do you know wether the lythari get hybrid form?


No, they do not.

OverdrivePrime
2007-08-16, 10:41 AM
Personally, I think Barbarian or Scout is the way to go for werewolves - perhaps a mix of both for extra ragey-skirmishy goodness. Making a lycanthrope can be difficult, so beware. Just a few numbers I threw together for a level 1 elf barbarian natural werewolf. She winds up being level 6, with just one barbarian hit die and two animal hit dice. If you're creating your character for a higher level, this will offset pretty quickly.

Elf Werewolf
Barbarian 1, Wolf (2 d8)
Elf racial abilities: Dex +2, Con -2
Lycanthrope Abilities: +2 Wis, +2 Natural Armor, Iron Will, Scent, Low Light Vision, 2d8+(wolf's Conx2) hit points, 4+(intx2) skill points in wolf skills (Select from Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Spot, Survival)
Werewolf hybrid/animal form abilities: Str +2, Dex +4, Con +4, Track, Weapon Focus (Bite), Damage Reduction 10/Silver
Natural Lycanthrope (+3 ECL)
Wolf HD = +2 to character level: BAB +1, +3 Fortitude Save, +3 Reflex Save, +2d8+6
Barbarian abilities: Plentiful. Has feats as a level 3 character: Snag Power Attack and Cleave to set you up to be a Frenzied Berserker as soon as possible. (check out Complete Warrior)
Total ECL = 6.

I'd prioritize high Strength, then Wisdom, then Con, use Int as your dump stat, and go for decent Dex and Charisma.

I'm not sure what level character you need, but hopefully it's higher than 6, since starting off with just three hit dice hurts. (Granted, DR 10/silver helps with that a lot!)

Solo
2007-08-16, 11:40 AM
I love how many people are, instead of answering her question, instead trying to guide her to play an optimized beguiler.

We are just trying to brainwash teach a DnD newbie about casters.

Right?


I've been thinking, since you get killed after casting a spell what if you - get this - play a caster who never casts his spells?

"Mage! Lay down some cover fire!"

"I'm terribly sorry, but seeing as I will be killed if I help you, it is in my best interests to do nothing to assist you in this combat situations. My deepest apologies."


Or how about....

"Medic!"

"I say, is it alright if I heal you back to 0 HP after this combat is over, as doing so in our current situation would land me in a sticky predicament, namely, my dying instantaneously as an enemy warrior blinks over and slays me. I do hope you have some way of staying alive that long? Keep a stiff upper lip, mate! Cheerio!"


Haha, yeah... I played a priest in the WOW D20 once. But they are not at all that powerful. ^^ Clerics and paladins are banned from this game actually... wanted to play cleric. =(

Be a druid. :smallamused:

Seriously, though, your DM is being a 王八蛋。A major 孙子。 A huge 混球。 I think you get my point.

Kiyona
2007-08-16, 12:20 PM
"Mage! Lay down some cover fire!"

"I'm terribly sorry, but seeing as I will be killed if I help you, it is in my best interests to do nothing to assist you in this combat situations. My deepest apologies."

Hahaha, that cracked me up!! :smallbiggrin:

I think thats just what Im gonna do the next time we play. ^^ It actually fits my character quite well. Especially since all shes been doing lately is cast one spell, fail and get knocked to negative HP. Hehe, I can make it work I think...

And it would piss my DM of. ^^

Hm.. maybe I will play a druid... they seem incredibly powerful. :smallsmile:

Kiyona
2007-08-16, 12:25 PM
OverdrivePrime

That looks like a solid build to me. :smallsmile: Were at lvl 14, so HD shouldnt be a problem. Though, there is already a frenzied berserker and a ranger in the party... But, maybe ic could get still get a different role. Ill talk it over with them tomorrow. :smallsmile:

To clearify... the blinking only happened twice. Stupid orch with boots of teleport. But similar things happen all the time.

Bad guys with really scary speed runs past my fellow PCs to get to me, evil henchmen using crossbows from afar, enemy casters fireballing my ass, and ambushing darknesscasting drows. All keep killing me... over and over again.

I want HP! :smallbiggrin:

I think my DM is trying to kill me... maybe he doesnt like me. Or he has a crush in me. ^^ Like 4year olds who pick on the girls they like. :smallsmile:

Im gonna tease him tomorrow. ^^

Serenity
2007-08-16, 12:36 PM
It really irritates me that HD aren't actively calculated into level adjustment. I probably designed a few illegal characters before knowing about that...

At any rate, since level adjustments are generally a bad thing, you might instead look into playing a Shifter--descendants of lycanthropes who can take on an aspect of the appropriate animal--i.e. gaining a climb bonus, claw attacks, or Scent ability--in a manner similar to barbarian rage. Scout, Ranger, or Barbarian is probably the way to go, going into Weretouched Master.

Solo
2007-08-16, 01:29 PM
Hm.. maybe I will play a druid... they seem incredibly powerful. :smallsmile:

The power of the druid is insignificant compared to the Force.... but its still damn good.

May I suggest a quick read at this thread?

http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=2947096&postcount=7

*Solo preemptively engages evasive maneuvers*


Edit: But if you're a 14th level caster, you should be riding roughshod over everything of equal, lesser, and possibly greater, CR.... if you played your cards right, and the DM isn't being a 王八蛋, which he may be...

lord_khaine
2007-08-16, 01:48 PM
omg, you were lv 14?
actualy, at this point focusing on casters above all else is a fair tactic, since since they are insanely powerfull, unless the dm was outright cheating you should be able to survive whatever he throws after you , unless its meant to vipe the party.

leperkhaun
2007-08-16, 01:51 PM
hmm it seems like your DM is playing "kill the caster" (unless he has a grudge against you). His thought could be that at that level those guys would know to take down a mage first.

IF that is what you DM is doing there is a simple fix. Get a wand of disguise. Make yourself look like some plate wearing frontliner. in that case the bad guys wont know to target you until you cast.....and by then they should already be engaged, or give you time to get a invis or fly spell off.

One thing you can do about the low health is have a poly ready for those big encounters (if playing a mage). then poly into some creature with a massive con score for the bonus hp per hitdice. However you need to be carefull when you do that as if you dont have the health when the spell ends you die.

Fixer
2007-08-16, 01:57 PM
Hi!

Sick of getting my ass totally kicked when playing healbot or any type of arcane caster I have decided to play a meleetype PC in my next game.

So, Ive been looking at werewolfs. Mostly because I love the fluff. ^^

But, Im not alowed to play one since its chaotic evil. But I seem to remember
that there is, in fact, a type of CG werewolfs as well. Worshipping Selune maybe...

As I cant remeber in what book I read about it, I cant show it to my DM...

Can you give me a few pointers perhaps? :smallsmile:
There is a published adventure available online in one of the WoTC magazines (a recent one) that is set in Eberron and has werewolf paladins in it. They have specific feats mentioned that allow you to control your lycanthrope far more than normal. You may wish to investigate.

OverdrivePrime
2007-08-16, 02:03 PM
That looks like a solid build to me. :smallsmile: Were at lvl 14, so HD shouldnt be a problem. Though, there is already a frenzied berserker and a ranger in the party... But, maybe ic could get still get a different role. Ill talk it over with them tomorrow. :smallsmile:


Since you've already got a berserker in the party, and a ranger, it might be fun to try a werewolf knight. I imagine a bellowed challege from a mithril-plate clad werewolf would be pretty effective.

Alternatively, I really like the idea of a werewolf scout. You wouldn't be stepping on the Ranger's toes, and you'd be highly effective at both melee and range. Essentially, you spot it, the ranger tracks it. I'd give yourself one level of barbarian at level 2 for emergency wolven rage, and the all-so-handy speed boost. There'd be excellent synergy with the other melee characters, allowing for excellent pack tactics. Be sure to snag the spring attack tree. With an Elf as your base race, you get access to good weapons (composite longbow & longsword) so you don't necessarily have to grab a level of Barbarian if you'd prefer to count on Scout.

Kiyona
2007-08-17, 01:19 AM
OverdrivePrime

That sounds really cool. I especially like the knight part, not the classic werewolf type. And I can really imagine how scary it would look. ^^

But the scout thing probably works better with the group as a hole. THe other three all comes from the same barbarian tribe. Being a werewolf scout I could have easily come from the same tribe as them. And get some nifty feats as well. Swift and silent is a good one for ambushing. ^^

Corbert
2007-08-18, 04:37 PM
Bad guys with really scary speed runs past my fellow PCs to get to me, evil henchmen using crossbows from afar, enemy casters fireballing my ass, and ambushing darknesscasting drows. All keep killing me... over and over again.

Hmmm, running past your fellow PCs to get to you provokes an AOO. No matter how fast they can run.

Evil henchmen with crossbows, don't suppose you have the Protection From Arrows spell do you? Its only 2nd level. If you don't have it you may want to consider a wand as others have suggested :smallsmile:.

Enemy fireballs, Protection from Energy (fire) spells.

Drow darkness, hmmm, only thing I can think of right now is Dispel magic.

Good luck :smallwink:

hewhosaysfish
2007-08-18, 05:21 PM
I think there was a PrC somewhere out there which allowed you to "master" your were-aspect as an afflicted were, without changing your alignment. Prerequisite is making all will saves against alignment changes until you qualifiy for the PrC - but I canīt find it. Does anybody know where itīs from?

Moonguard.
The Web Enhancement for Comp.Div. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040522a)

Sir Jason
2007-08-18, 06:23 PM
Here's a tip if you want to get back at a DM that is being unfair to casters: if you can, make an Initiate of the Seven Fold Veil (its in Compl. Arc.). Make him fear your character. I broke a couple campaigns with mine... Don't do that though, it ruins the fun and people get mad at you for it. Just abuse your veils so that he can never hit you with anything! Its highly frustrating.

comicshorse
2007-08-18, 06:57 PM
Shifters are good as a kind of half wayhouse between ordinary people and Lycanthropes. And a combo of Barbarian, Were-Touched Master and War Shaper will create a manic bundle of claw tipped, shredding fury

Solo
2007-08-18, 09:11 PM
Here's a tip if you want to get back at a DM that is being unfair to casters: if you can, make an Initiate of the Seven Fold Veil (its in Compl. Arc.). Make him fear your character. I broke a couple campaigns with mine... Don't do that though, it ruins the fun and people get mad at you for it. Just abuse your veils so that he can never hit you with anything! Its highly frustrating.

Now now, play nice:smallsmile:

Lord Tataraus
2007-08-18, 09:56 PM
If your DM doesn't let you play a werewolf because of the alignment, you could just say you are a wereFOX (just use the same stats) because foxes are more noble...
Alternately the shifter is always a good idea (and my second favorite race) or you could try the Lupin [Dragon #325] who are even closer to werewolves (though they hunt them) but they don't get any stat adjustments and they have no LA, but their scent ability is amazing (only a DC10 wisdom check to pinpoint an invisible creature as a free action, who needs see invisibility?)