Hidden Talent question for non-psionic classes

[Crichton]

So the feat Hidden Talent gives a PC 2 power points per day, and the one 1st level psionic power from any class. But I'm a bit unsure of how to interpret the instructions for calculating the DC and Manifester Level for using this feat as a non-psionic class.

From Expanded Psionics Handbook p.67:


If you have no psionic class levels, use Charisma to determine how powerful a power you can manifest and how hard those powers are to resist.

I'm new to psionic characters. How exactly do I determine those things? Is it just my Cha modifier is my max Manifester Level? How do I calculate DC for saves against my one power?



Thanks in advance!

[Malimar]

Works just like spellcasting and SLAs.

The maximum power level you can manifest is your Charisma minus 10 -- so you need at least 11 Charisma to use the 1st level power (which it actually says in the feat).

The save DC is 10 + the power level + your Charisma bonus. So for a 1st level power, it would be 11 + Charisma bonus.

Your Manifester Level for this power is 1.

[timeeater14]

You use Charisma to determine the DC, just like a spell(10+power level+Cha modifier). The "how powerful" bit is also the same as a spell: you need 11 Cha to manifest a level 1 power, 12 for level 2, 13 for 3, you get the idea. And the two best picks for Hidden Talent powers, IMO, are Psionic Minor Creation(Shaper 1, make huge amounts of Black Louts Extract) or Astral Construct, which can remain useful as a trap-springer into the late game(and if you're a Kalashtar, go nuts.)

[timeeater14]

Dang, ninja'ed. (Lurk'ed?)

[Crichton]

You use Charisma to determine the DC, just like a spell(10+power level+Cha modifier). The "how powerful" bit is also the same as a spell: you need 11 Cha to manifest a level 1 power, 12 for level 2, 13 for 3, you get the idea. And the two best picks for Hidden Talent powers, IMO, are Psionic Minor Creation(Shaper 1, make huge amounts of Black Louts Extract) or Astral Construct, which can remain useful as a trap-springer into the late game(and if you're a Kalashtar, go nuts.)

Thanks! That does explain it.

As for the Black Lotus Extract, that sounds lovely, but wouldn't I have to manage the DC35 craft check on it? Astral Construct, on the other hand, would give my rogue an at-will flanking buddy. Hrmmm... Very nice.

[Malimar]

As for the Black Lotus Extract, that sounds lovely, but wouldn't I have to manage the DC35 craft check on it? Astral Construct, on the other hand, would give my rogue an at-will flanking buddy. Hrmmm... Very nice.
Astral construct has a manifesting time of 1 round, and will be limited to a duration of 1 round unless you pick up levels in a psionic class (plus you can only do it twice per day). Comparable to using Bluff to feint without the Improved Feint feat. Useful for springing traps, as timeeater14 says, not so useful in combat.

[Crichton]

Astral construct has a manifesting time of 1 round, and will be limited to a duration of 1 round unless you pick up levels in a psionic class (plus you can only do it twice per day). Comparable to using Bluff to feint without the Improved Feint feat. Useful for springing traps, as timeeater14 says, not so useful in combat.

Good point... So between the high DC of Black Lotus, and the limited usefulness of Astral Construct without a higher ML and PP pool, maybe those two aren't so good for me... Perhaps I'll just go with Dimension Hop? Range is short, but it's a swift action...

[tiercel]

Psionic minor creation is just potentially handy for general utility, even if you can’t generate obscene amounts of (or even any) poison.

Dimension hop isn’t bad, but you can get the same effect from an Anklet of Translocation (1400gp, MIC).

Part of what you choose depends on what character you’re running; if you’re the party face, Conceal Thoughts is “little Glibness” for an hour per use. If you have significant Spot/Search/Listen, Synesthete gives you an additional +4 for 10 minutes — and for its duration happens to be a hard counter to deafness, gaze attacks, and blindness. If you like to ready actions (ranged attacks or spells in particular), Synchronicity makes them easier to use.

[timeeater14]

Another OK option might be Control Flames, which is a nasty DC 25 save at level 1.

[timeeater14]

Sorry about the double post, but I had a stroke of inspiration for Minor Creation: Taxine. It's a poison that I can remember the source for(probably a Dragon, it's in the Poison Handbook) that deals 1 Con/2d6 Con and has a unique ability to "build up" in somebody's system, so any exposure adds +2 DC and 1d2 extra Con damage to the secondary save. And it stacks. But the best part? It's a plant based posion that is poisonous in it's base form: no craft check required!

[Crichton]

So many good options! Thank you all for the help!

[Nifft]

Astral Construct, on the other hand, would give my rogue an at-will flanking buddy. Hrmmm... Very nice.

As noted, that power is a poor fit for that function, since it costs 1 round to manifest and disappears after 1 round (at most; it might get destroyed sooner).

However! There are some valid ways to get at-will flanking: for example, Tome of Battle has a Maneuver which summons a tiny fire elemental for 1 round as a flanker, and a Stance that allows you to flank with an adjacent ally. Those can be repeated all day.

A couple levels of Swordsage can buy you a lot of goodness; or either of the other two classes (Warblade / Crusader) plus a feat.