Is a Charisma=19 Magic item broken?

[suplee215]

Simple question above. Today a player asked if the wizard can create an item for him that does for charisma what gauntlets of ogre power do for strength. The guy already has 2 magic items, one being a belt of hill giant strength and a artifact helmet. I might not let him get this thing for a while just because of those but I am also not sure how broken it is. He is a barbarian who has expressed out of game interest in becoming a hexblade warlock. He also likes to try to talk people into becoming his minion which is the main reason he wishes to boost his intelligence. I am just unsure if this item is too powerful to exist even if I give them a dozen hoops to jump through.

[Honest Tiefling]

One school of thought is to adjust loot in accordance to the player character's performance, such as giving under performing or un-optimized characters some goodies. In which case, how is the character doing in comparison to everyone else at the table? Contributing nicely in and out of combat?

My initial worry with the item is more how the player will treat it. Having an NPC to hang around and watch the horses is one thing, but I tend to try to squash dreams of convincing too many characters following a single player character around. It can become cumbersome, and extremely one-sided if only one player is trying to get minions.

[Biggstick]

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/06/10/if-a-stat-is-increased-due-to-a-magic-item-is-that-sufficient-enough-to-multiclass/

Unless he has at least 13 Charisma for his base Charisma, the magic items aren't meant to allow one to multiclass.

As far as an opinion on such an item, I think you might be better off rewarding something more akin to a Boon that grants some sort of bonus to his Charisma, or proficiency/expertise in Persuasion.

[SaA]

not if you give it to a character that cant abuse it

like give it to a Barb or a Wizard or a Monk

My DM gave me Gaunlets of Ogre power as a CC based Land Druid , i had 0 use for high Str on that character so me getting really high Str didnt really mater , it did let me have a little fun with it but not game breaking.

those items are great for letting characters who have dump stats that do nothing for them, have a little fun with stuff like social or physical interactions

also in yoru chase with a Barb that wants to be a hexblade, its not that much of a buff, she he gets a magic weapon, but if he has the time to infest 5 levels into Warlock for TB then he should have found atleast 1 magic weapon anyway, other then that he gets a few spells and the Hex blade feature which is nice, but not game breaking. its honestly probably going to make him weaker then he would be going pure barb

[Naanomi]

No more than any other stat boosting item. Though as noted above: not for multiclassing requirements... (also in 5e I don't tend to allow custom magic item creation, but I recognize that is a stylistic preference)

[Coidzor]

Much less broken than his Belt of Hill Giant Strength. Vastly less broken than the higher tiers of belts of giant strength.

Multiclassing into Hexblade and then hitting less accurately and for less damage with a one-handed weapon using 19 Charisma instead of being able to use a two-handed weapon with 21 Strength is actually weakening himself, so that's objectively less powerful than he was.

He also can't Rage and cast spells at the same time, so that's more anti-synergy to go against being broken.

Unlike an item that sets Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution at 19, there is not much appeal for an item that sets Charisma at 19, especially for an attunement slot.

Charisma-based dudes like Sorcerers, Bards, and Warlocks will already be pumping Charisma, so unless they just got crap starting stats and really want to take all the feats, they'd be rocking 20 Charisma before too long, which is better than the 19 from an item.

Barbarians can end up with low Charismas but still want to Intimidate, or they could be Berserkers with that one Charisma-based ability that those ones get, I suppose, but having a +4 Charisma modifier instead of a -1 to +2 one isn't going to break everything, especially for that particular ability or Intimidation skill proficiency in general.

I suppose some Paladins would like it if they're just stretched thin for ASIs, such as by multiclassing into Sorcerer and taking feats to make their build work, but helping make it easier to do even the most outrageous things a Sorcadin can do isn't broken.

People who want to use it to have a +4 Charisma mod and then use that to attack will almost certainly have a +4 for their primary attack ability modifier before they can actually encounter or afford such an item and multiclass into Hexblade Warlock. So doing so doesn't gain them anything, at least on the attack front. The most that can be said on that front is investing two levels into Warlock and taking Agonizing Blast as an invocation, so they always have a good ranged attack cantrip even when disarmed.

[Asmotherion]

Depends on many things really:

-How usual are magic items in your campain; In one campain I'm playing, the only magic items we've seen so far are some potions, and we're level 6 (minus Arcane Focci that are pseudo-magical items). In an other, we've had wands and scrolls from level 3 where we started.

-What is the tone of your campain? Is it just about having some fun with your friends? How Seriously do you take actual Role Playing? How Realistic do you expect it to be? Do you want to enhance the feeling of things not always going as they should or do you want everything to be solved by the end of the session, without loose ends? Light Fantasy or Gritty Realism?

-Magic items are rewards, and should not be taken for granted. Some may not work as intended for example...? Just an idea... Consider all the above, and make sure your player actually deserves a Magic Item before giving it, as well as that, by doing so, you're not being unfair to the other players in the campain. Again, if all you care about is order a Pizza and slay some Goblins to pass the time, I may be pulling too much information for you to consider :) Hope I helped.

[Specter]

Much less broken than a 19CON item which already exists, so go crazy.

[Pex]

Pure spellcasters who need Charisma will have an 18 anyway, which is the same thing, until they go for the 20.

A Paladin could use it. They tend not to get above 16 until late campaign. It will matter for their saving throws and the saving throw bonus they give others. It is a significant bump, no question, but not make the game unplayable. The PCs will make one or two more saving throws a session than they would have otherwise. Not a tragedy. Saves the cleric a Bless, perhaps.

It is a large boost for those who multiclass with a Charisma based spellcasting class if one class does not depend on Charisma. The issue isn't breaking the game. It doesn't. The issue is a sense of fairness to single class characters or more generally a fairness that applies to all the 19 ability score items. Is it fair to the fighter and barbarian when the cleric gets the Gauntlets of Ogre Power? Do the players even care? Personal experience. My cleric does have the Gauntlets. The party Fighter player doesn't care and actually likes it when my character occasionally makes the melee attack. However, some players could just as well resent it. How do the players in your party feel?

[suplee215]

Thank you all. I think he has 13 in CHR already so can multiclass. It will be a while before he can get it, lots of studying needed. The guy has 2 major magic items and others at the table complained about it (taking care of that with rewards for them) so has to tone it down a little bit. Just was unsure if the item itself was insane witht he amount of CHR casters and already I have been having to tone him back on hirelings/minions (the player himself likes to get a small army of NPC behind him)

[Coidzor]

Yeah, it sounds like everything else about the character and player and how you've been treating them has been the problem, not this item in and of itself.

[suplee215]

Yeah, it sounds like everything else about the character and player and how you've been treating them has been the problem, not this item in and of itself.

Perhaps, although so far everyone has a decent amount of magic items. It just happens that this guy has gotten 2 strong ones in the last 3 sessions they fit his character. Perhaps it was a mistake to put a belt of giant strength in there but the party was parlaying with giants so it fitted the narrative extremely well.

[LordEntrails]

There are other magic items in RAW that are equivalent or higher in power than this item. But, none of that matters until you ask, is this item too powerful for this character at this level in this campaign?

Level 20 Barb getting a third magic item like this in a high magic campaign? No big deal.

A level 3 barb in anything but a fairy magic campaign? Problem.

In campaigns I run, a third item of this power would probably be appropriate for a level 16 character.

[Tanarii]

Unlike an item that sets Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution at 19, there is not much appeal for an item that sets Charisma at 19, especially for an attunement slot.A Cha 19 item would be awesome on a hard-core-melee Valor Bard or Blade 'lock that started with Cha 12-14 and no real intent to pump it up.

I mean, it'd be just as good as building for Cha and getting Gauntlets of Ogre Strength for Str 19 for your melee needs. Except in a campaign where I don't know for sure I'm getting one or the other, I'd rather build for the thing I want to be out the gate.

I mean, obviously that's not optimal. But I have a weird thing for the design space occupied by a V-Bard or B-lock starting with Str 16, Dex 14, Con 14, Cha 12 Half-orc, Half-elf, Dragonborn, Mountain Dwarf or Vuman, who puts ASIs in combat feats and Str/Con. :smallwink: (Exact stats vary by race.)

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Edit: More on topic, a Cha 19 item isn't very broken. Probably less so than a Str 19 or Con 19 item is in a single-class campaign. On par with str 19 in a multiclass campaign when someone wants to do a Cha class but without the investment in ability score beyond the 13 needed to MC.