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View Full Version : Player Help Taking Feats but Avoiding Powergaming



Nidgit
2017-10-18, 01:01 AM
Just hit Level 4 in my group and our DM threw an unexpected wrinkle at us: he's giving us a free feat, including UA feats, in addition to ASI's.

Normally this would be great, right? More power means cooler challenges and more fun. The only problem is that most of the players are rather relaxed about the game and have decided to pick suboptimal feats like Gourmand or Performer, placing flavor over utility. I'd already planned to take a feat at this level (Shield Master) but I'm now worried that doing so will be too combat-focused and that I'll be overshadowing the others. They're all newer than me so I really want them to have fun.

Should I take Shield Master, a different UA feat like Blade Mastery, or something more flavorful with non-combat utility like Diplomat or Theologian? Given the option to select multiple feats at no cost, which ones provide fun combos and abilities?

My character is a Half-Orc OotA SnB Paladin that's been acting as the primary tank and combat healer for the group, for what it's worth. Sorcadin is off the table but Warlock or Fighter dips are still possible, though again, I want to avoid powergaming too much.

Vaz
2017-10-18, 01:13 AM
It's the players choice. It makes you better at what you are doing, which is optimizing. Unfortunately, people think that optimizing is power gaming. Power Gaming is being exclusive to other story critical elements.

Also, look at what the a
Stormwind fallacy is before calling yourseld a powergamer.

fwiw, the Shield Master feat unlocks the primary ability to use the Shield over a deadlier weapon.

If you are concerned, pick SM as your L4 feat, and then take Brawny. You were already taking SM at some point, Brawny just makes you have double prof and still get a +1 to Str.

Chugger
2017-10-18, 01:51 AM
Being more powerful often just means you have to kill more stuff. It's sort of a "be careful what you ask for thing" - because as the player side of the equation goes up, the dm side of the equation necessarily has to go up. Arguably there is no such thing, from a certain standpoint, as a powergamer. The problem exists, as far as I can tell, when only 1 or 2 or 3 players in the group powergame - and the other several players are noticeably weaker. "You hit. Roll damage." "I roll a 2. Plus 3 is 5. I do 5 points of damage to the bugbear." Then the powergamer hits and does 23 points. That is the main problem with it, that it makes non-pg'ers feel useless - and it's harder to balance from a dm standpoint, too.

DarkKnightJin
2017-10-18, 04:44 AM
I say take Shield Master like you were intending already, and pick a flavor feat with the free one you're getting from the DM.
You could also grab something you'd normally not grab. I'd personally go for something thematic for your character. Maybe something like Mage Slayer. Maybe Spell Sniper, and get yourself something from the Sorc or Warlock list. A Paladin can make good use of an at-will ranged option like Firebolt, Eldritch Blast, Chill Touch..

If you do down that path, I'd go Chill Touch or Eldritch Blast. CT for it's utility, and EB for being avle to target multiple enemies at once, and taunt them into striking at you. You are the tank, right?

Azgeroth
2017-10-18, 05:33 AM
SM is fine, is more for survivability than damage, your S&B so your not going for the SUPER POWER NOVA SORCADIN!!

other feat, maybe healer? or keen mind? Inspiring Leader?

none of those will make you the 'dont worry, i can solo this guys, just stay back and watch my awesomeness noobs' guy.

or, go for skilled and cover the gaps in your group.

Healer : because your a paladin, little spell slots, and lay on hands only goes so far..

Keen Mind : up your passives, always know where north is (harder to get lost) recall anything for last 30 days (game time)
good boon for the party, without making you 'more powerful'

Inspiring Leader: who won't love the free Temp HP?

Decstarr
2017-10-18, 05:42 AM
I'd hands down stick to your shield mastery as ASI and with your extra feat, either go Gourmand or Performer as well and roleplay the heck out of those taste or performance battles you'll have with the other guys. Or instead of making it contests, you could RP working together on the perfect meal, the perfect performance etc.

Mara
2017-10-18, 07:51 AM
I would say shield mastery is fine. The big feats for breaking things are GWM, SS, and PAM

Lombra
2017-10-18, 08:04 AM
Pick what's more fun FOR YOU. If others prefer RP feats is on them, if you prefere combat feats, is on you. Combat, exploration, social encounters, everyone has a chance to shine somewhere, if you choose to focus on the combat, then so be it, the important thing is that you have fun, you won't strip the fun away from the others if you don't want to, even with the infamous "OP feats" that aren't even OP.

Tell you what: if it happened to me I would have picked lucky and had fun with it, screw the meta, I'm here to have fun, not to worry about how people with bad experiences feel about my choice.

DarkKnightJin
2017-10-18, 08:25 AM
..I kinda forgot the Lucky feat was a thing.
OP should totally grab that for their free feat. Fluff it as some minor Divine Intervention when he uses it.

"The baddy attacks.. and rolls a nat 20."
"No, he doesn't. I'm using 1 of my Lucks to make him reroll."
"Alright. *Roll* Yep. Natural 1."

I know there's other numbers on the d20, just making a point.

Lombra
2017-10-18, 08:30 AM
..I kinda forgot the Lucky feat was a thing.
OP should totally grab that for their free feat. Fluff it as some minor Divine Intervention when he uses it.

"The baddy attacks.. and rolls a nat 20."
"No, he doesn't. I'm using 1 of my Lucks to make him reroll."
"Alright. *Roll* Yep. Natural 1."

I know there's other numbers on the d20, just making a point.

Everyone just keeps thinking about combat, the RP possibilities and anime moments for lucky are endless!

DarkKnightJin
2017-10-18, 08:40 AM
Everyone just keeps thinking about combat, the RP possibilities and anime moments for lucky are endless!

No, they're limited to ex per in-game day. Says so right here n the feat's description.😊

Demonslayer666
2017-10-18, 11:04 AM
Lucky and Tough come to mind.

Lucky can be very useful in combat, but you can choose to use it outside of it.

Also Resilient(Con), Resilient(Dex), and Heavy Armor Master (combat, but it's passive).

ghost_warlock
2017-10-18, 11:36 AM
Note that if you invest even a little bit into Charisma, the UA Diplomat feat can be an "I win" button for social encounters (or even encounters that were supposed to be a fight but you tricked monsters into talking anyway).

No restrictions on how many times per day it can be used. No restrictions on what creature types can be affected so long as they're not immune to charm. No "now they hate you" penalty for when it wears off.

Take it and play your character like Ace Rimmer. "What a guy!"

Edit: Captain Carrot would also be a good inspiration for the feat.

JNAProductions
2017-10-18, 12:34 PM
Take Shield Master. It's good, useful, and powerful, but certainly not game-breaking.

After that, take more flavorful feats if you want. Perhaps work with your DM to make some if none of the existing ones work for you. (For instance, Keen Mind might not fit with your character, nor Actor, so you might want, say, an Intimidating Presence feat.)

Nidgit
2017-10-18, 12:50 PM
My current thought is to take Theologian, but ask my DM if I can use the Help rider from Historian instead since Detect Evil and Good is redundant for a Paladin. I can just blather on about relevant religious parables instead.

Avigor
2017-10-18, 01:18 PM
Feats can be both practical and flavorful. For one example: I recently rolled a TN Human variant Grey Guild Wizard (yes the Sterling Vermin variant) Urchin who has the "I will never fully trust anyone other than myself" flaw. I started with Linguist, both giving him some languages that will be useful for a rogueish wizard (Draconic, Elven, and Thieves Cant), and a flavorful ability (the ciphers) that makes sense given that he is one paranoid guy. Finally that +1 to INT helped.

My plan is to boost INT at level 4, then get Alertness (always looking over his shoulder after all) and Ritual Caster (Cleric), possibly tied to Vecna as he wants to be able to do some of their ritual spells like Purify Food and Drink, Divination/Commune, and Forbiddance. As my bond is that someone saved me from the streets I've spun that into I was trained by a mysterious GG Wizard who I suspect (but have no proof) is associated with a cult of Vecna, hence the possibility that he might become involved, especially if he were to offer say a few extra starting rituals or something similar. Granted, ideally I'd love to get the feat with an Archivist style fluff if I can, albeit I might alternatively go with Boccob as a patron depending on the DM and the party.

Honest Tiefling
2017-10-18, 01:26 PM
I say take Shield Master like you were intending already, and pick a flavor feat with the free one you're getting from the DM.

I agree with this. Shield Master can only outshine the rest of the party if you're getting slammed and for some reason, it's targeting you a lot. If the rest of the party is newer and RP focused, I don't know if this is the best method of combat encounters for your party. I think a single combat feat isn't going to wreck the party.

Furthermore, if they want to RP...Why not try to build up on that. Try to discuss religion with one of the other characters, since you want Theologian. Try to convert the other PCs (in a nice manner). If someone is building for a particular area of expertise, (such as a rogue with thief skills or a wizard with arcana) defer to them or try to reach out and get their opinion on something. (such as asking the rogue if a particular area of town is safe, or the wizard what magical item to buy).

some guy
2017-10-18, 01:55 PM
Inspiring Leader: who won't love the free Temp HP?

I'm seconding Inspiring Leader. It's a good fit for a paladin. It will buff the other pc's instead of overshadowing them.