Cleric Aid Spell: How do you use it?

[xroads]

Do any of you cast aid at the highest level slots? If so, do you find it's worth the use of a high level spell slot?

Five points isn't much as you get higher in levels. But five per spell level seems like a different story. At least for the mid ranged levels (for example, not so sure I'd want to use my only ninth level spell slot to give my allies 45 more hit points if I was 19th level)

Do you typically cast aid on the front line fighters or on the backline casters?

I can see arguments for both. I typically cast on the front line fighters since they are the one's that are going to typically weather the brunt of attacks. But then again, those hit points would represent a higher percentage of a caster's hit points. So argueably would do more good.

[Citan]

Hi.
First things first.

Cleric Aid Spell: How do you use it?
Well, by properly fulfilling the components requirement of course!

Now that the bad joke has been preemptively spurted out, let's get to the task at hand.


1. Do any of you cast aid at the highest level slots? If so, do you find it's worth the use of a high level spell slot?

Five points isn't much as you get higher in levels. But five per spell level seems like a different story. At least for the mid ranged levels (for example, not so sure I'd want to use my only ninth level spell slot to give my allies 45 more hit points if I was 19th level)

2. Do you typically cast aid on the front line fighters or on the backline casters?

I can see arguments for both. I typically cast on the front line fighters since they are the one's that are going to typically weather the brunt of attacks. But then again, those hit points would represent a higher percentage of a caster's hit points. So argueably would do more good.

Honestly, to both questions, one could just answers by "it depends" and be perfectly in the right. :smalltongue: Since that wouldn't be much helpful to you, let's analyse a bit.

What does Aid do?
- Push the hard limit of HP by some amount...
- And "recovering" HP of the same amount...
- To 3 people at the same time...
- At up to 30 feet range.

So, at its lowest level, it eats into both Healing Words and Cure Wounds, although more into Healing Words: although it requires an action instead, since it gives some HP recover as part of the effect, it's a net win over HW whenever you have several allies downed at the same time...

Which can happen much more often than one could think at first, especially during the transition time when party starts facing AOE spells or effects without necessarily having either the RAW HP or other tools to stand it through. If can also just happen through Murphy's empowered bad luck (you counted on Paladin to kill B, but Pally took a nasty crit with lucky damage rolls from A and thus went down. B being still alive at his turn went and smashed your caster friend that was maintaining a control spell to block some other foes. And now it's deep **** time).

In these occurences, both resources-wise (one 2nd level slot instead of 3*1st level ones) and action-wise (three allies "revived" in one single round, instead of three over three rounds).

So, one could see it as a "Mini-Mass Healing Words".

Now, for the pure effect of "HP max buffs"?
Well... "It depends". :smallbiggrin:
I wouldn't usually understand a Cleric casting Aid on a Distant Stone Sorcerer, a Sharpshooter Hiding Rogue and a Darkness Warlock, because the chances of them being actually targeted and hit would be fairly low, between visibility and AC, and their HP should be enough.

Then again, I could understand the logic if the party knew it had high probability to face enemy group working against their weaknesses (like having a caster with long-range AOE blasting or Dispel Magic for example, or creatures having HP-crippling effect).

To take an opposite example, I could understand an upcasted Aid on a Bear Barbarian because since it halves most damage, giving 10 HP to him would be like giving 20 HP to another. Then again, it would be giving more HP to the class that is basically built upon the concept of HP, so I would argue that other allies would benefit more.

See the difficulty?
One also has to take into account the opportunity cost with upcast (and let's be honest, only with upcast is Aid really good as long-term buff) because it predates on a slot that could be used for another spell.
For example, for a 9th level Cleric dedicated to Spirit Guardians and adept at keeping 3+ enemies inside, using 5th level Aid to boost his whole party also means that his damage will be potentially much lesser over the whole fight.

BUT...
This means that whole party gets a 20HP boost, which is nearly equivalent to a party-wise Tough feat.
For a similar level Wizard (14 CON, taking average) having normal HP equal to 9+8*(4+2)=55, these 20HP amount to nearly 50% increase, or being able to get hit by an average damage Fireball and feel as good as when you woke up!

And, provided you have Rope Trick + Healer feat in the party, or a whole lot of Life Goodberries, or a Bag of Holding filled with potions of healing (in short: great amount of potential HP recovery), it can amount to having 20 more HP for every fight of the day.

So, my usual intuition as to how and when to cast Aid would be whenever...
- Party has strong reasons to believe a day (or even a single fight) will have life-threatening spike damage.
- Or you have a stupidly strong supply of healing and expect to get some time to heal (at least quaff potions or eat berries) between each fight.
- Or I as a character have very good reasons to consider I won't need some of my highest spell slots during the day (maybe through prior use of divination spells?).
And in those cases I will priorize the most likely target (if unknown, lowest HP allies) and use the highest level slot I can without hampering my strategy.

For example...
1. As a Tempest Cleric, I'd hesitate much in upcasting Aid as high as possible, because the "maximizing damage" of the Channel Divinity makes any higher level of cast extremely worth.

2. However, on a 11th Life Cleric, I wouldn't hesitate more than a split second to use my 6th level on Aid, unless I know for sure that either Forbiddance, Harm or Blade Barrier would be decisive spells for one encounter of the day.

3. Whatever Cleric I am, if we are facing a situation in which we have to flee while under direct threat from arrows/casters, I would certainly upcast Aid unless I have a decisive defensive spell (disclaimer: chances are you don't, besides Bless: Druid is the WIS-one with goodies in this area).

Of course, even all those complex considerations would instantly fall down if you went out of your way stat-wise to multiclass into Sorcerer, but that is a story for another time... :smallwink:

[xroads]

Thanks.

I've never used it as a mass heal before. I just cast right before my group starts adventuring. I figure, between my channel divinity (Life domain cleric), and the mass healing word spell, I got that covered.

I think I'll experiment with upcasting on the front line fighters. See how it works out. Our back line casters aren't hit very often. So I think the aid might end up being wasted on them.

[No brains]

Aid is good because it can make the difference between being one-shot and two-shot. Some things can do crazy damage in one round and you need all the hp you can get before you are hit. It also stacks with temporary hp just in case you are exceptionally paranoid.

Another good thing about aid is that it can extend the usefulness of minions. Often they won't have many opportunities to be healed, but aid lets you be proactive. This is especially useful with animated or created undead. Most spells won't heal them, but aid can functionally increase their hp. Since aid can last 8 hours, it will allow your minions to short rest back to full if they need it.

[PeteNutButter]

How do I use it? I took 3+ levels of sorcerer and extend it before a long rest with whatever my highest slots are left. That gives the team free hp for 8 hours after our long rest at no spell slot cost for the adventuring day.

Honestly it’s a great spell in combat as well. Has the added bonus of reducing the chances people get outright killed, due to the maximum hp increase.

Best used early in the adventuring day as a “heal” that is a buff for the rest of the day.

[Citan]

How do I use it? I took 3+ levels of sorcerer and extend it before a long rest with whatever my highest slots are left. That gives the team free hp for 8 hours after our long rest at no spell slot cost for the adventuring day.

Honestly it’s a great spell in combat as well. Has the added bonus of reducing the chances people get outright killed, due to the maximum hp increase.

Best used early in the adventuring day as a “heal” that is a buff for the rest of the day.
"I found one! I found one"! \o/

Sorry, this is a private joke considering how one "shark" on this forum (he shall recognize himself) said that "proof that Sorcerer is crappy class is that nobody multiclasses into it except Paladins" (among other inepties). Well, thanks to you, there is another living proof of the contrary besides me :smallbiggrin:

I'd be curious about your choice of other metamagic, Distant (Healing Words / Sanctuary / Shield of Faith) maybe ?

Back on topic...

Aid is good because it can make the difference between being one-shot and two-shot. Some things can do crazy damage in one round and you need all the hp you can get before you are hit. It also stacks with temporary hp just in case you are exceptionally paranoid.

Another good thing about aid is that it can extend the usefulness of minions. Often they won't have many opportunities to be healed, but aid lets you be proactive. This is especially useful with animated or created undead. Most spells won't heal them, but aid can functionally increase their hp. Since aid can last 8 hours, it will allow your minions to short rest back to full if they need it.

This is indeed a smart use, totally forgot about minions.
I would find this a waste for a band of wolves, now on minions that can last longer and have higher CR, that's a good idea. ;)
I see how it could end greatly when applied to, ermm, totally random example, *pixies* (ok, I'm half-serious here, you would need quite an upcast to make it barely worth).
However, on some beats with low AC or HP, sure.

In that regard, I was wondering how should be ruled situations in which...
1. You cast Aid on someone before he Wild Shapes/Polymorph.
2. You cast Aid on someone that is currently under a polymorph/shaping effect?

From what I understand, in any case, you are still the same creature at core, even if your actual form changes. Furthermore, there is no reason why a magical effect would block/break another one unless formerly specified.

So I'd definitely consider that in case 1 the benefit conveys over to the beast form and back (unless, for Polymorph, someone explains me in a sourced way that transforming into a creature "dispels" magic buffs, which I find unlikely).

I'd probably follow the same logic for case 2, although I could understand how view may differ, it really depends on how you represent the Aid spell "actually works".
But by RAW? Should work imo.

[Slipperychicken]

My life clerics don't cast it. I want PCs to get low, so I can hit them with preserve life and reduce the number of spell points or healer kits needed.

I'd definitely consider it to help out some low-hp pack animals or minions, especially if the GM rules that they don't get death saves.

[Kane0]

I always forget it affects more than just one target for some reason.
Still, its handy to drop at the start of the day in my group, since the DM has a habit of throwing us one or two big fights in a day rather than a bundle of smaller ones. Better to have a handful more HP to stay in the fight one more turn than be laying on the floor bleeding out and needing a heal.

[NaughtyTiger]

i used it last night for the first time. loved it.

level 3 cleric, so no upcast.

i was trapped in a tent, so no line of sight.

revived EK,
boost the caster - 11 to 16 max to reduce chance of 1-shot insta kill (22 damage in 1 shot is possible, 32 is harder)
boost the beastmaster companion - wolf from 12 to 17.


healing word needs LOS
lowest HP characters cuz we lost 2 PCs to one-shots the previous session.

next session, i will prolly try warding bond on the beast and aid, to keep it up.

[Arkhios]

It's important to remember that Aid works "both ways" in regards to hit points. Not only it increases your maximum and current hit points by 5 point increments, it also means that the maximum damage you have to take to be killed instantly is twice as high per increment (while you don't take literal damage below 0, if you're at 1 hp and your maximum HP is 10, it takes only 11 damage to kill you without a single save. Aid comes to aid you (pun intended) because you'll survive 5 points longer per spell's level!

That in mind, it's best given to those most likely to take damage (and that's melee characters most of the time), and I'd say that a 9th level Aid can be a life saver as much at high levels, where it's more than likely that you take relatively huge amounts of damage, as a 2nd level Aid is at low levels.

[Tanarii]

The more chances you'll have to short rest and spend hit dice or otherwise heal, the better it gets. Because it's +5 hps per spell level per target per time you heal up to full. If you get two short rests, it's effectively +15 hit points at second level.

The flip side is you don't get full benefit out of the hit points gained unless you go down to 5 hps / spell level or less in a fight, although that's a general problem with 5e healing making pop-up healing more valuable. Otoh there are plenty of reasons to want that extra buffer. Not all DMs are nice and ignore PCs that are down already. Especially with intelligent enemies you've already demonstrated to that you will pop-up heal your allies. They're liable to make sure the PCs are dead if they get the chance. I've also had DMs that had beast-like creatures drag off unconscious PCs. Even some intelligent enemies will do that one. I lost a level 1 PC (captured not killed, but still "lost") to Kobolds once that way.

[xroads]

The more chances you'll have to short rest and spend hit dice or otherwise heal, the better it gets. Because it's +5 hps per spell level per target per time you heal up to full. If you get two short rests, it's effectively +15 hit points at second level.

Unfortunately, my group rarely gets short rests. We have a DM that likes to roll perception for any nearby monster in the dungeon. Those that succeed tend to alert others. So within moments of encountering one group, the rest of the dungeon tends to realize we are there and start converging on us.

Given the circumstances, it makes sense. But as a result, we haven't had a short rest in months.

[xroads]

It's important to remember that Aid works "both ways" in regards to hit points. Not only it increases your maximum and current hit points by 5 point increments, it also means that the maximum damage you have to take to be killed instantly is twice as high per increment (while you don't take literal damage below 0, if you're at 1 hp and your maximum HP is 10, it takes only 11 damage to kill you without a single save. Aid comes to aid you (pun intended) because you'll survive 5 points longer per spell's level!

That in mind, it's best given to those most likely to take damage (and that's melee characters most of the time), and I'd say that a 9th level Aid can be a life saver as much at high levels, where it's more than likely that you take relatively huge amounts of damage, as a 2nd level Aid is at low levels.

Interesting. I hadn't considered that before.

[Armored Walrus]

Unfortunately, my group rarely gets short rests. We have a DM that likes to roll perception for any nearby monster in the dungeon. Those that succeed tend to alert others. So within moments of encountering one group, the rest of the dungeon tends to realize we are there and start converging on us.

Given the circumstances, it makes sense. But as a result, we haven't had a short rest in months.

Sounds like someone needs to memorize Silence.

[Tanarii]

Unfortunately, my group rarely gets short rests. We have a DM that likes to roll perception for any nearby monster in the dungeon. Those that succeed tend to alert others. So within moments of encountering one group, the rest of the dungeon tends to realize we are there and start converging on us.

Given the circumstances, it makes sense. But as a result, we haven't had a short rest in months.

I do something similar. But has you DM taken into account that the sound of active battle would probably only sound like two people talking if you were 60ft-90ft away, or so? People just talking quietly isn't easily audible beyond 30ft, and being intentionally quiet so they can rest? Almost not chance. I adapt old-school dungeons a lot, and this means that sometimes a few rooms get pulled in, especially if they are working together (ie you're attacking a Goblin lair). But an entire dungeon? No way.

My rule is passive DC 10 to hear battle at 60ft, DC 15 if the creature is distracted (ie anything other than on guard duty). -5 to DC at 30ft, +5 for each doubling of distance. (Thunderwave and Thunderous Smite are dangerous spells to use in a Dungeon.)

Or automatic failure if they're really concentration on something roughly equivalent to navigating, mapping, tracking or foraging. Which doesn't take much. I'm pretty strict on situations that cause a creature to lose passive perception entirely.


Sounds like someone needs to memorize Silence.
It's an awesome spell. Especially if you have time to ritual cast it in a corridor or other choke point, cutting off sound of the next battle to an entire different part of a dungeon. Since sound can't pass through it, not just out of it.

[Gignere]

Unfortunately, my group rarely gets short rests. We have a DM that likes to roll perception for any nearby monster in the dungeon. Those that succeed tend to alert others. So within moments of encountering one group, the rest of the dungeon tends to realize we are there and start converging on us.

Given the circumstances, it makes sense. But as a result, we haven't had a short rest in months.

Rope trick and leomunds is your friend

[Arkhios]

I do something similar. But has you DM taken into account that the sound of active battle would probably only sound like two people talking if you were 60ft-90ft away, or so? People just talking quietly isn't easily audible beyond 30ft, and being intentionally quiet so they can rest? Almost not chance. I adapt old-school dungeons a lot, and this means that sometimes a few rooms get pulled in, especially if they are working together (ie you're attacking a Goblin lair). But an entire dungeon? No way.

My rule is passive DC 10 to hear battle at 60ft, DC 15 if the creature is distracted (ie anything other than on guard duty). -5 to DC at 30ft, +5 for each doubling of distance. (Thunderwave and Thunderous Smite are dangerous spells to use in a Dungeon.)

Or automatic failure if they're really concentration on something roughly equivalent to navigating, mapping, tracking or foraging. Which doesn't take much. I'm pretty strict on situations that cause a creature to lose passive perception entirely.


It's an awesome spell. Especially if you have time to ritual cast it in a corridor or other choke point, cutting off sound of the next battle to an entire different part of a dungeon. Since sound can't pass through it, not just out of it.

Interesting idea. I might make a note of using that. But how do you determine the sound of battle for the Passive Perception DC?