Beguiler + Spellfire Wielder ~ Casting spells above CL?

[MrTim]

So, against my expectations, my DM actually allowed my beguiler to take on the Spellfire Wielder feat. Now, I'm not entirely sure how beguilers work as far as "knowing" spells goes. Would a 4th level beguiler "know" all beguiler spells? Or just up to 2nd level spells?

Cutting to the chase: if I stored enough spells, would I, in theory, be able to cast higher level spells than what are normally available to me?

~Obviously final say goes to my DM, I'm just curious if there's a RAW answer or a typical rule of thumb. Thanks! :smallsmile:

[Venger]

So, against my expectations, my DM actually allowed my beguiler to take on the Spellfire Wielder feat. Now, I'm not entirely sure how beguilers work as far as "knowing" spells goes. Would a 4th level beguiler "know" all beguiler spells? Or just up to 2nd level spells?

Cutting to the chase: if I stored enough spells, would I, in theory, be able to cast higher level spells than what are normally available to me?

~Obviously final say goes to my DM, I'm just curious if there's a RAW answer or a typical rule of thumb. Thanks! :smallsmile:

beguilers, along with all the other prixe fixe classes, know all their spells. they just don't have slots right away.

what does spellfire have to do with anything? this will give you more slots, but won't unlock spells of a higher level.

[MrTim]

I'm relatively new to D&D, so I'm not entirely sure of what the capabilities are.

So, going by what you said, a beguiler would know all the spells, but wouldn't have access to the slots right away, but then you can discharge stored levels in SW to use spells. So if he inherently knows the higher level spells and has the appropriate amount of spell levels saved up, shouldn't he be able to use one beyond what he would normally be able to?

Or does he have to reach the appropriate level before he's capable of using those spells?

[Venger]

I'm relatively new to D&D, so I'm not entirely sure of what the capabilities are.

So, going by what you said, a beguiler would know all the spells, but wouldn't have access to the slots right away, but then you can discharge stored levels in SW to use spells. So if he inherently knows the higher level spells and has the appropriate amount of spell levels saved up, shouldn't he be able to use one beyond what he would normally be able to?

Or does he have to reach the appropriate level before he's capable of using those spells?

That's not how beguiler or any other spellcaster works.

Setting aside versatile spellcaster for the time being, if you look at beguiler's chart, you'll see at level 4, he has access to some number of 2nd level spells. You are allowed to cast 0, 1, and 2 level spells. You can use the spell energy harvested from spellfire to power these spells. You know all the spells from your list 0-9, but you cannot cast them until you have slots available to do so.

Versatile spellcaster, a must on any prixe fixe caster, lets you kludge together two slots to make one slot of the next highest level. e.g. a level 4 beguiler can stick together two 2s and cast a 3 if he wants to. normally it burns through your slots very quickly, but if you have some reliable source to juice yourself with spellfire, it's much more useful.

[Bakkan]

I think I may have found the source of confusion, assuming the sources I'm looking at are reliable.

Wielding spellfire allows you to absorb magic like a rod of absorption, but you don't get any of the other benefits of using the rod. The only things you can use the stored energy for are the specific things spelled out in the Spellfire section of the book: making a damaging ranged attack roll or healing a target. You cannot use the stored energy to cast your own spells; you'd need an actual rod of absorption to do that.

[Rebel7284]

Versatile spellcaster, a must on any prixe fixe caster, lets you kludge together two slots to make one slot of the next highest level. e.g. a level 4 beguiler can stick together two 2s and cast a 3 if he wants to. normally it burns through your slots very quickly, but if you have some reliable source to juice yourself with spellfire, it's much more useful.

1. Versatile Spellcaster never gives you a higher level spell slot. You just cast a spell by expending two slots one level lower.
2.
Spells: A beguiler casts arcane spells, which are drawn from the beguiler spell list on page 11. When you gain access to a new level of spells, you automatically know all the spells for that level on the beguiler's spell list. You can cast any spell you know without preparing it ahead of time. Essentially, your spell list is the same as your spells known list. You also have the option of adding to your existing spell list through your advanced learning class feature (see below) as you increase in level.
The game clearly intended you to know your spells only when the spell progression actually grants you access to those spells. While you can argue what "gain access" means and do things with Heighten Spell, this is clearly not RAI.

[MrTim]

Sweet! Thanks for the info everyone!
"When you gain access to a new level of spells, you automatically know all the spells for that level on the beguiler's spell list" answers it pretty definitely.