Assistance requested building sunder-based martial in 3.5

[PhantasyPen]

Hello all! I've visited these forums before in search of some character design inspiration, but this is my first time actually posting anything. After a 5e campaign which ended a few months ago where my paladin managed to get his hands on a Shatterspike weapon and basically went to town with ridiculous sundering shenanigans, I've found myself wishing once more to try my hand a building a Sundering-based character, something I haven't done in years.

The question I pose to you, o wise members of the playground, is the following: what feats, enchantments, PrC's, and class features should I be looking at to maximize my one-man vendetta against all objects and creations of artifice? All official 3.5 and 3.0 material is on the table, no homebrew, and dragon magazine stuff is a big maybe.

Oh! And I'm fully aware of the Mountain Hammer and Stone Dragon's Fury line of combat maneuvers, I'm looking for stuff outside of that + Improved Sunder.

[daremetoidareyo]

But you'll be breaking your loot...


Can you sunder straps? cuz sunder that component pouch right off...

[PhantasyPen]

But you'll be breaking your loot...


This never struck me as a particularly valid argument and sundering does so much more than just destroy equipment, but I'll explain why it doesn't worry me anyways.

#1) I am the one DM'ing about 50% of the time, so it's not my loot being sundered.
#2) The other people in my group, including our DM's, just generally don't bother with looting the bodies of our foes, in fact, the times where I've seen it actually attempted, the rest of the group basically told the one looting to "stop wasting time." So magic items being claimed from enemies are pretty rare on the ground to begin with, and we usually have to purchase our magical items from a friendly wizard. (Usually dubbed "the Magic Man" in memory of our first campaign.)

[Dr_Dinosaur]

But you'll be breaking your loot...
Honestly, when was the last time your Fighter looked at the garbage hunk of metal the troll was carrying and think "I want to use that instead of my sword?" Or are you just carrying around bags of holding trash hoping someone will want to buy it?

[Morcleon]

Honestly, when was the last time your Fighter looked at the garbage hunk of metal the troll was carrying and think "I want to use that instead of my sword?" Or are you just carrying around bags of holding trash hoping someone will want to buy it?

It's more along the lines of "what if the sword is magical and, even if none of us can use it, we can sell it for more money". :smalltongue:

Plus, hunks of metal are decent trade goods and you can sell those pretty easily.

[PhantasyPen]

Plus, hunks of metal are decent trade goods and you can sell those pretty easily.

Then it will still be valuable after I've cleaved it in twain. But this thread is getting side-tracked now, so can we please move back to my original question?

[Gullintanni]

An adamantine weapon and improved sunder feats seem like the right place to start.

[PhantasyPen]

An adamantine weapon and improved sunder feats seem like the right place to start.

Anything beyond that? I know combat maneuvers don't have too much support but there must be SOMETHING

[daremetoidareyo]

combat brute from CW:


Sundering Cleave: To use this maneuver, you must destroy a foe's weapon or shield with a successful sunder attempt (see page 158 of the Player's Handbook). If you do so, you gain an immediate additional melee attack against the foe. The additional attack is with the same weapon and at the same attack bonus as the attack that destroyed the weapon or shield.

Depending on whether or not that immediate extra attack counts as an immediate action, you could sunder all of your opponents gear off before hitting them in a single round by using your extra attack as an additional sunder attack.

Strength devotion from CC:


Once per day as a swift action, you can bypass hardness with your melee attacks for 1 minute. In addition, you gain a slam attack as a natural weapon, and all your melee attacks (natural or not) gain the adamantine property for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
You can select this feat multiple times, gaining one additional daily use each time you take it.|||If you have the ability to turn or rebuke undead, you gain one additional daily use of this feat for each daily turn or rebuke use you expend.

that's about it.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Let's see...

Combat Brute gives you a free attack after destroying a weapon or shield. It's also got solid Power Attack/Charge benefits-- do your standard Leap Attack charge and smash their sword, then make a free attack against them.
Focused Sunder lets you expend your psionic focus to halve a weapon or object's hardness when attacking it (though not, oddly, armor).
Shards of Granite lets you ignore hardness if you take a big enough to-hit penalty with Stone Power (trading attack for temp HP)
The Destruction Mantle gives you free Improved Sunder and lets you expend your psionic focus to ignore 4 Hardness.
Goliath Greathammers give +2 to Sunder attempts.
The Marshal's Art of War aura gives +Cha to Sunder attempts.
Dwarf Rogue sub levels (Dragon 338) give bonus damage against objects and constructs, as well as bonuses to sabotoguing buildings and the like.



Vow of Peace bears mentioning; one of the abilities it gives is that if you're struck by a manufactured weapon, it has to make a Con save or instantly shatter.

[PhantasyPen]

Let's see...

Combat Brute gives you a free attack after destroying a weapon or shield. It's also got solid Power Attack/Charge benefits-- do your standard Leap Attack charge and smash their sword, then make a free attack against them.
Focused Sunder lets you expend your psionic focus to halve a weapon or object's hardness when attacking it (though not, oddly, armor).
Shards of Granite lets you ignore hardness if you take a big enough to-hit penalty with Stone Power (trading attack for temp HP)
The Destruction Mantle gives you free Improved Sunder and lets you expend your psionic focus to ignore 4 Hardness.
Goliath Greathammers give +2 to Sunder attempts.
The Marshal's Art of War aura gives +Cha to Sunder attempts.
Dwarf Rogue sub levels (Dragon 338) give bonus damage against objects and constructs, as well as bonuses to sabotoguing buildings and the like.



Vow of Peace bears mentioning; one of the abilities it gives is that if you're struck by a manufactured weapon, it has to make a Con save or instantly shatter.

Alright, so is this pretty much the complete list then? Time to start working I guess. Not sure I'd want to do vow of peace though, that has some roleplaying applications I'm not sure I'd be able to pull off, considering how my group behaves.

[Zaq]

Just how martial do you need to be? It'd take some shenanigans (both to get it on your list and to turn it into a touch spell when it's usually a ray), but I have a humorous mental image of a Duskblade channeling Disintegrate and causing mayhem that way.

[PhantasyPen]

Just how martial do you need to be? It'd take some shenanigans (both to get it on your list and to turn it into a touch spell when it's usually a ray), but I have a humorous mental image of a Duskblade channeling Disintegrate and causing mayhem that way.

I like this suggestion, as the Duskblade is easily my favorite class outside of psionics.

That being said, I'm not married to any class in particular, which is why I'm trying to compile a list of all my options, so I can find the best ones, or at least the widest variety of them, and use them to create a master of matter elimination.

Hmm, actually, I think a Spellblade would have an easier time achieving Disintegration Sword-status, but what kind of shenanigans were you thinking of to get it for a Duskblade?

[Zaq]

I can't actually remember if there even is a way, to be honest. Turns out it's easier to turn a non-ray spell into a ray (Ocular Spell, Spellwarp Sniper, etc.) than the other way around. (Those lenses from Lords of Madness can—for an obnoxiously high GP cost—let you turn a ray into a cone, but I don't know how to go from cone to touch spell.) That said, I know that enough shenanigans can make a lot of things happen that shouldn't, so I've learned not to lay out blanket "can't be done" statements.

Spellsword might work. Does Smiting Spell work on rays? I'm obviously feeling too lazy right now to open my books.

[Blackhawk748]

Honestly, when was the last time your Fighter looked at the garbage hunk of metal the troll was carrying and think "I want to use that instead of my sword?" Or are you just carrying around bags of holding trash hoping someone will want to buy it?

Do it all the time. Granted its just Armor and Bows we take, but those are worth ok money.

As to an actual suggestion, get the weapon Shatterspike.

[Psyren]

Well, removing looting does solve sunder's main problem...

Are you familiar with Tome of Magic? The vestige Aym has an ability called Ruinous Attack that lets you deal double damage to objects. You can get this by binding her (lasting 24 hours). Usually binding a vestige would require a dip, but in your case you lucked out, as Aym's Ruinous Attack is available via the basic Bind Vestige feat.

[ShurikVch]

Most of options were already mentioned; still, there's some more:

Destruction mantle (Complete Psionic) - You have the Improved Sunder feat as long as you are psionically focused. If you expend your focus as part of a sunder attempt, the hardness of the object you are sundering is treated as 4 less.

Stone Dragon discipline: Mountain Hammer line ignore hardness, and Stone Dragon's Fury may be used "... in conjunction with the sunder special attack"

Feats:
Cobalt Power (Magic of Incarnum) - "... insight bonus on attack rolls or ability checks made to succeed on a ... sunder attack equal to the invested essentia."
Combat Engineer (Dragon #334) - +2 on attack and damage when making a sunder attack
Deadly Concussion (Dragon #333) - in case of successful sunder of armor or shield with bludgeoning weapon, you deal an amount of damage to your opponent equal to the amount of damage you dealt to destroy his armor or shield.
Fragile Construct (Complete Champion) - [Reserve] feat; by touch attack, target's DR and hardness are reduced by number equal to level of highest-level spell from Destruction domain available to cast
Initiate of Kord (Dragon #342) - +4 size modifier on Sunder attempt; adds to spell list Champion of Kord (4th-level spell, gives +CL - up to +10 - sacred bonus on sunder attempts, and lasts minute/level)
Raging Sunder (Dragon #310) - +4 on attack roll to sunder while in Rage
Ranged Sunder (Complete Warrior) - you may try to sunder from range (up to 30'); slashing or bludgeoning weapon will do full damage (piercing is still just 50%)

Classes:
Cleric with Token of Destruction (Dragon #327) - +1 Sacred bonus on the attack roll of a Sunder; token is not a magic item, costs 100 gp, and may be used as a Holy/Unholy Symbol
Monk - Sacred Path of Moradin fighting style - When making a Sunder action with a Warhammer, you receive a bonus to the damage equal to ½ Monk level.
Rogue - Saboteur special ability - When striking an object or making a Sunder action, you ignore an amount of the object's Hardness equal to half your Rogue level. You may make Sneak Attacks on Constructs.
Exotic Weapon Master - Exotic Sunder stunt - do +1d6 damage when attempting to Sunder with an Exotic Weapon.

Spells:
Bebilith Blessing (Drow of the Underdark) - The target can sunder objects with its claw attacks as if it had the Improved Sunder feat.
Brumal Stiffening (Frostburn) - The targeted weapon becomes brittle, reducing its hardness by 5 for the duration of the spell, thereby increasing the effectiveness of sunder attempts against the weapon.
Wood Rot (Spell Compendium) - In combat, you can use the spell to attempt to sunder any wooden or wooden-hafted weapon; the weapon or its wooden portion is destroyed on a successful melee touch attack.

[PhantasyPen]

Do it all the time. Granted its just Armor and Bows we take, but those are worth ok money.

As to an actual suggestion, get the weapon Shatterspike.

If this was 5e I would. However this is for 3.5 that I was asking and I don't think shatterspike is in 3.5.

[Blackhawk748]

If this was 5e I would. However this is for 3.5 that I was asking and I don't think shatterspike is in 3.5.

Yes it is, its in the module Sunless Citadel. Its 3.5 Errata states that it grants a +4 to Sunder attempts and the wielder is treated as having Improved Sunder.

Shoulda said that to begin with, but i forget that everyone doesnt own Sunless Citadel :smalltongue:

[PhantasyPen]

Yes it is, its in the module Sunless Citadel. Its 3.5 Errata states that it grants a +4 to Sunder attempts and the wielder is treated as having Improved Sunder.

Shoulda said that to begin with, but i forget that everyone doesnt own Sunless Citadel :smalltongue:

Forget Sunless Citadel, I don't think I own any of the adventure modules, I didn't even realize they were a thing until I'd been playing for about a year, and I prefer making my own adventures anyways :smalltongue:

[ShurikVch]

Great Sunder feat (Psionics Handbook) - When you strike at an opponent's weapon, you ignore half of the weapon's total hardness (round down).

Items:
Breaking Blade (Arms and Equipment Guide) +2 halberd with metal haft (hardness 15 and 20 hp); when attacking simple and martial reach weapons, it deals double damage; 18310 gp
Doomstrike special ability (Champions of Ruin) after successfully sundering an enemy's weapon, the wielder of a doomstrike weapon can cleave into the enemy, as though using the Cleave feat; +1 bonus
Gauntlets of the Siegebreaker (Dragon #334) +2 enhancement to Str; at sunder attack, the attack ignores hardness and deals 2d4 points of damage to objects; CL 15 knock 3/day; 11000 gp
Helm of Battle (Magic Item Compendium) +2 on attack roll during sunder attempt 3/day; 2000 gp
Necklace of the Marauding Beast - Rampaging Boar Necklace (Arms and Equipment Guide) wearer gets Improved Sunder feat, +1 Con, and +1 round of Rage duration; 12440 gp
Sundering special ability (Magic Item Compendium) allows to attack as if you have the Improved Sunder feat, and deals +1d6 damage at sunder attempt; +1 bonus
Weaponeater (Arms and Equipment Guide) +3 club which can cause stricken metal weapon to make Fort 16 save or crumble to dust; after 50 uses of rusting ability, a weaponeater crumbles to dust itself; 58300 gp



As to an actual suggestion, get the weapon Shatterspike.Shatterspike (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#shatterspike)?

[Calimehter]

Maybe some Rust Monster companions in addition to the Sunder stuff?

[PhantasyPen]

Maybe some Rust Monster companions in addition to the Sunder stuff?

How would one go about getting a rust monster companion? Cohort feats? Wilderness Companion??

[daremetoidareyo]

How would one go about getting a rust monster companion? Cohort feats? Wilderness Companion??

The arms and equipment guide has a creature type trainer feat.

[PhantasyPen]

The arms and equipment guide has a creature type trainer feat.

I forgot about that, although I thought that gave you a hireling, not a proper cohort?

[ShurikVch]

I forgot about that, although I thought that gave you a hireling, not a proper cohort?The Windrider PrC (Masters of the Wild) can designate anything as a Mount; the only problem - you will need either very big Rust Monster, or very small PC
Also, in the A&EG, young Rust Monster cost 1000 gp, and 1200 gp - training

[Calimehter]

How would one go about getting a rust monster companion? Cohort feats? Wilderness Companion??

Others beat me to the A&EG bits about buying and training.

For some reason I thought I had recalled an animal companion option too, but I'm not finding now. I might be recalling a campaign house rule. 😳

[Buddy76]

I don't know if your DM is going to let you mess aroud with that, but The Book of Vile Darkness has a major artifact called Angelwing Razor, which is a longsword that ignores all DR and hardness. It can even cut thorugh walls of force.