Ranged damage dealer that doesn't rely on crits, precision damage, or spells

[heavyfuel]

As the title says. I need a ranged build that does that, preferably one that comes online at or before 6

By no spells I mean no blasting spells. Buffs would be ok, but I want to use weapons. At will stuff s also ok, like eldritch blast

Can it be done? Any suggestions?

[Zanos]

My first thought is to build around brutal throw, which lets you use strength to hit for thrown weapons, which already get strength to damage. Then go into bloodstorm blade for additional benefits on thrown weapons, including better PA returns and strength ratios.

EDIT: If you're ok with a dash of magic, you could also wrangle blood wind into your build and make any natural attacker.

[Darrin]

How about a Bardsader: Bard 4/Crusader 2 should be viable. With Song of the Heart and inspiration, you've got +3d6 fire damage on the entire party's attacks, or switch it to [sonic] with Dragontouched/Draconic Heritage.

[Bakkan]

A Hellfire warlock does respectively in a low- to mid-op group. Something like Warlock 8/Binder 1/Hellfire Warlock 3/Legacy Champion 8 has all the pieces you need, and caps out at (if I've done the math correctly) 26d6 damage per eldritch blast before items, feats, etc. If you want to vastly increase your group utility, you can do Warlock 12/Binder 1/Hellfire Warlock 3/Legacy Champion 4, which drops your blast damage to 20d6 but allows you to be a pseudo-artificer and make all your party's custom magic items.

[danielxcutter]

A Barbarian with the Whirling Frenzy alternate class feature actually does fairly well as an archer, especially if you can get a bow that scales with your Strength modifier. Bone Bow is an exotic weapon, but does that by default(and also deals 1d10 base damage), for example, and there are a few magical bows that have that feature too.

[Rebel7284]

I have been thinking about various ways to (Draconic?) Polymorph into an Arrow Demon, get two Splitting Bows, and just go crazy with 4 arrows per attack.
Most such builds only take off at level 9-10 though. Not to mention that Splitting Bows are expensive.

Another idea which takes off at level 8 is Factotum archer with Greater Manyshot and Int to Damage.

If you are looking at earlier, I think the best you can do is Targeteer Fighter from Dragon # 310 possibly combined with a few levels of Barbarian.

[ben-zayb]

Don't extreme-range mundanes (ie cragtop archer, hulking hurler*) rely on ridiculous STR to deal damage?



*wt limit is proportional to STR

[Telok]

Just enough psi-war levels to get into pyrokineticist can help a bit. Greater psionic shot and the extra flaming add a bit. But it locks you into one shot a round, uses several feats, skill points in concentration, and neither class has good BAB.

[Soranar]

I would second the whirling frenzy barbarian archer. All you really need is point blank shot + rapid shot and frenzy to get 2 bonus attacks.

To get the most out of your STR combine this with a raptoran using a footbow and you'll get 1.5 times your STR to damage, just make sure you take the hover feat so you can stay in place to shoot.

Finally you want your footbow to get the hank's energy bow enchant which turns your arrows in force damage (ignores all DR) and gives it ghost touch for incorporeal foes. It's also 2d6 damage instead of 1d8 and you can use power shot if you have to without wasting feats on it.

[Eldariel]

Good ol' DMM: Persist Cleric does this just fine. Cloistered Cleric with the appropriate Devotions and spells could shine. Knowledge Devotion (plus Divine Insight/Guidance of the Avatar for huge bonuses), Law Devotion and buffs.

Other than that, Barbarian 1/Ranger 2/Fighter (Targeteer) 1/Warblade 2 is great and flows neatly into Eternal Blade. 5 attacks per round with decent multipliers, utility and damage. Gets Ranged Weapon Specialization thanks to Warblade 6 too, and Knowledge Devotion with Ranger and later Eternal Blade's Eternal Knowledge.

[heavyfuel]

My first thought is to build around brutal throw, which lets you use strength to hit for thrown weapons, which already get strength to damage. Then go into bloodstorm blade for additional benefits on thrown weapons, including better PA returns and strength ratios.

EDIT: If you're ok with a dash of magic, you could also wrangle blood wind into your build and make any natural attacker.

Brutal Throw was also my first though, but the build doesn't really come online until at least lv 10 with the Master Thrower capstone. That's way too long


How about a Bardsader: Bard 4/Crusader 2 should be viable. With Song of the Heart and inspiration, you've got +3d6 fire damage on the entire party's attacks, or switch it to [sonic] with Dragontouched/Draconic Heritage.

That could work. It's more of a party-focused build than what I had in mind, but still.


A Barbarian with the Whirling Frenzy alternate class feature actually does fairly well as an archer, especially if you can get a bow that scales with your Strength modifier. Bone Bow is an exotic weapon, but does that by default(and also deals 1d10 base damage), for example, and there are a few magical bows that have that feature too.


I would second the whirling frenzy barbarian archer. All you really need is point blank shot + rapid shot and frenzy to get 2 bonus attacks.


Another idea which takes off at level 8 is Factotum archer with Greater Manyshot and Int to Damage.

If you are looking at earlier, I think the best you can do is Targeteer Fighter from Dragon # 310 possibly combined with a few levels of Barbarian.

Targeteer Fighter gets 2 ranged exotic weapons for free and Dex to dmg (though it substitutes Str, so maybe not a good deal)

I feel the biggest problem with Whirling Frenzy is the -2 to attacks, which stacks with the -2 for Rapid Shot. That's 3 attacks at -4 with no bonus to hit as if you're in melee (the extra Str)

@factotum, why would I want Greater Manyshot? Seems like a waste of 2 feats. And the damage doesn't seem very impressive, especially since I'm sure my DM will "nerf" Cunning Surge to make it 1/round


Just enough psi-war levels to get into pyrokineticist can help a bit. Greater psionic shot and the extra flaming add a bit. But it locks you into one shot a round, uses several feats, skill points in concentration, and neither class has good BAB.

Yeah, this has several problems. The biggest one being that I don't even know if psionics are allowed

[heavyfuel]

Good ol' DMM: Persist Cleric does this just fine. Cloistered Cleric with the appropriate Devotions and spells could shine. Knowledge Devotion (plus Divine Insight/Guidance of the Avatar for huge bonuses), Law Devotion and buffs.

Other than that, Barbarian 1/Ranger 2/Fighter (Targeteer) 1/Warblade 2 is great and flows neatly into Eternal Blade. 5 attacks per round with decent multipliers, utility and damage. Gets Ranged Weapon Specialization thanks to Warblade 6 too, and Knowledge Devotion with Ranger and later Eternal Blade's Eternal Knowledge.

Not sure I wanna bring a clerizilla into the party. I'd thought about it and had decided that it's too high op for the party

Why would I take Warblade to 6? I get almost nothing in terms of maneuvers. And while Eternal Blade is a pretty nice class, the BAB requirement is too much. I'd never noticed it had a BAB 10 requirement. They were crazy when they came up with that number

[Fizban]

@factotum, why would I want Greater Manyshot? Seems like a waste of 2 feats. And the damage doesn't seem very impressive, especially since I'm sure my DM will "nerf" Cunning Surge to make it 1/round
I'm not sure why went Greater either- Factotum is terrible at sneak attack. Basic Manyshot works okay though, since you get multiple arrows from a single attack roll you get more mileage out of boosting attack rolls, and then pump the individual arrow rolls if you want. Still not actually great though, Factotum is not a damage dealer.


Goliath or Half-Giant Fighter 4: EWP Bone Bow, PBS, RS, Weapon Focus/Spec/Mastery. At ECL 2 you have 2d8+4 or more, which is plenty until ECL 3 with Rapid Shot. Once you've hit Fighter 4 for Weapon Spec you can leave if you want, since Weapon Mastery only requires BAB 8 after that, mix in whatever other damage source you like. Or just stay Fighter to rush more archery feats. The attack bonus from focus+mastery more than offsets the penalty from Rapid Shot while a flat +4 damage all the time every time is just better than pretty much anything short of bardzilla, and it stacks with all of them.

Why would I take Warblade to 6? I get almost nothing in terms of maneuvers.
Because Warblade gets to count as Fighter and take Weapon Spec into Weapon Mastery, but it needs 6 levels instead of 4. If you're already taking Warblade 1 for maneuvers you might as well go to 6, and remember that you get to swap out maneuvers for higher level versions in addition to learning more.

[Telok]

With clericzilla I'm reminded that the Elf domain gives one of the base archery feats and True Strike. If you're willing to go with a shot every other round then multishot (not greater), craft wand, and dmm:extended spell greater magic weapon works well. It's usually more palatable to DMs too because there's no persisted spells or nightstick stacking.
With a divine True Strike in a wand chamber on the bow you can go with stuff that applies to-hit penalties. As a bonus you ignore most miss chances too.

On psionics: psychic warrior and pyrokineticist are about as safe and tame as it gets. The XPH is no more busted than the PH. As long as you avoid CPsi and web content it's almost literally a spell point sorcerer. I'd seriously worry more about a duskblade/ur-priest/theurge build, which can be strong but isn't nasty levels of powergaming.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Targeteer Fighter is a fantastic choice, if allowed. Use one of your Proficiencies for a Bone Bow and you'll have a d10+Dex ranged attack, which is a pretty good start. (Halfling Skiprocks are also nice-- they can be drawn as ammunition, deal good base damage, and can hit a second target with no penalty on your initial roll). Point-Blank, Precise, and Rapid Shot, of course...

From there, I guess you need to start looking at other damage boosters. Dragonfire Inspiration is probably the biggest, but there are also things like Dragonfire Inspiration, Knowledge Devotion, and Soulmelds like Sighting Gloves.

For the former, Bard works, but you can also use things like Harmonic Knight or Smite to Song Paladin. Going with Killoren for your race lets you take Charming the Arrow for SADness.

For the second, you can get pretty decent returns withoyt maxing out skills. Collector of Stories gives +5 for just two skill points, and-- weird as it sounds-- a dip in Truenamer can really help. (There's a first level utterance that gives a +10 to your next check with no duration limit, and another that gives +5 to any skill check.) Cloistered Cleric 1 (Elf, War, Knowledge)/Targeteer Fighter 2/Truenamer 1-2 would make a good start.

For the last, Sighting Gloves give +1 damage/essentia invested, and Incarnate Avatar (Chaos) gives an equal attack boost. Targeteer Fighter 2/Incarnate 3-4/Ironsoul Forgemaster, perhaps?

[Eldariel]

Not sure I wanna bring a clerizilla into the party. I'd thought about it and had decided that it's too high op for the party

Why would I take Warblade to 6? I get almost nothing in terms of maneuvers. And while Eternal Blade is a pretty nice class, the BAB requirement is too much. I'd never noticed it had a BAB 10 requirement. They were crazy when they came up with that number

Warblade grants utility and gives you initiator level. It also eventually grants you the archery maneuvers Dancing Mongoose, Raging Mongoose and Time Stands Still. For now, it grants you a low number of superb maneuvers that help with positioning, teamwork and life in general. Sudden Leap, Concentration saves, White Raven Tactics (huge whether or not you are allowed to target yourself), Iron Heart Surge and Wall of Blades, Hunter's Sense (though Blood in the Water works with bows, which can be nice on a volley build in bigger encounters), etc.

Warblade also qualifies you for Ranged Weapon Mastery, which is pretty good on volley builds. And Warblade recovery works great with full attacks; you just need a single melee attack in lieu of it (natural non-hand based weapon such as Fanged Mask [MIC] works great at no penalties). Nothing stops you from attacking squares (indeed, fighting with total concealment requires it) so you can recover from anywhere. And you can use Feathered Wings graft [Fiend Folio] without danger of changing alignment thanks to Moment of Perfect Mind.

Most importantly though, you already got the best parts from all the martial classes so the opportunity cost is minor.


And as a bonus you get to also double up as a competent melee character as almost all your stuff also works in melee: pick Pounce from Barb and learn Leading the Charge stance and Bounding Assault maneuver and you just need a +1 Valorous Elvencraft Bow or reach weapon with Glove of Storing to wreck face in melee too. Power Attack useful but not obligatory.


Another solid build is just straight (Mystic) Ranger. All the CoR, PHBII and SC Archery spells make it quite formidable overall. Indeed, the WB build would probably be interested in Wands of Ranger stuff down the lane too. Mystic Ranger would already have 3rds including Arrowsplit.

[Jormengand]

While soulknife is terrible, soulbow is actually fairly decent - adding your wisdom to damage rolls on what become magic weapons with enough class levels. It does require 2 levels of the worst player character class (and third worst class full stop) in the game, but the reward is a decent archer-type. Phase arrow is always funny for shooting creatures you can't see but know are there somehow. Finally, being able to conjure a different +3 special ability each time is pretty sweet - and the extra soulknife levels for a +9-equivalent arrow aren't great but aren't the worst. You might want levels in something full-bab, though.

[Grod_The_Giant]

While soulknife is terrible, soulbow is actually fairly decent - adding your wisdom to damage rolls on what become magic weapons with enough class levels. It does require 2 levels of the worst player character class (and third worst class full stop) in the game, but the reward is a decent archer-type.
Soulbow IS pretty sweet. You can get the same stat to attack and damage without issue, you can make Lucky mind arrows to reroll every attack you make, you can stack TWF and Rapid Shot to unleash massive volleys, you can dip into Shiba Protector for another iteration of Wis to attack and damage...

[heavyfuel]

Warblade grants utility and gives you initiator level. It also eventually grants you the archery maneuvers Dancing Mongoose, Raging Mongoose and Time Stands Still. For now, it grants you a low number of superb maneuvers that help with positioning, teamwork and life in general. Sudden Leap, Concentration saves, White Raven Tactics (huge whether or not you are allowed to target yourself), Iron Heart Surge and Wall of Blades, Hunter's Sense (though Blood in the Water works with bows, which can be nice on a volley build in bigger encounters), etc.

Warblade also qualifies you for Ranged Weapon Mastery, which is pretty good on volley builds. And Warblade recovery works great with full attacks; you just need a single melee attack in lieu of it (natural non-hand based weapon such as Fanged Mask [MIC] works great at no penalties). Nothing stops you from attacking squares (indeed, fighting with total concealment requires it) so you can recover from anywhere. And you can use Feathered Wings graft [Fiend Folio] without danger of changing alignment thanks to Moment of Perfect Mind.

Most importantly though, you already got the best parts from all the martial classes so the opportunity cost is minor.


And as a bonus you get to also double up as a competent melee character as almost all your stuff also works in melee: pick Pounce from Barb and learn Leading the Charge stance and Bounding Assault maneuver and you just need a +1 Valorous Elvencraft Bow or reach weapon with Glove of Storing to wreck face in melee too. Power Attack useful but not obligatory.


Another solid build is just straight (Mystic) Ranger. All the CoR, PHBII and SC Archery spells make it quite formidable overall. Indeed, the WB build would probably be interested in Wands of Ranger stuff down the lane too. Mystic Ranger would already have 3rds including Arrowsplit.


Goliath or Half-Giant Fighter 4: EWP Bone Bow, PBS, RS, Weapon Focus/Spec/Mastery. At ECL 2 you have 2d8+4 or more, which is plenty until ECL 3 with Rapid Shot. Once you've hit Fighter 4 for Weapon Spec you can leave if you want, since Weapon Mastery only requires BAB 8 after that, mix in whatever other damage source you like. Or just stay Fighter to rush more archery feats. The attack bonus from focus+mastery more than offsets the penalty from Rapid Shot while a flat +4 damage all the time every time is just better than pretty much anything short of bardzilla, and it stacks with all of them.

Because Warblade gets to count as Fighter and take Weapon Spec into Weapon Mastery, but it needs 6 levels instead of 4. If you're already taking Warblade 1 for maneuvers you might as well go to 6, and remember that you get to swap out maneuvers for higher level versions in addition to learning more.

Don't think either race will be available, but I'll check.

As for Warblade, it's actually decent with the Mongoose maneuvers. I didn't know they worked with non-melee weapons.


On psionics: psychic warrior and pyrokineticist are about as safe and tame as it gets. The XPH is no more busted than the PH. As long as you avoid CPsi and web content it's almost literally a spell point sorcerer. I'd seriously worry more about a duskblade/ur-priest/theurge build, which can be strong but isn't nasty levels of powergaming.

It's not a matter of psionics being op or not, it's a question of whether the DM even considered them.


Targeteer Fighter is a fantastic choice, if allowed. Use one of your Proficiencies for a Bone Bow and you'll have a d10+Dex ranged attack, which is a pretty good start. (Halfling Skiprocks are also nice-- they can be drawn as ammunition, deal good base damage, and can hit a second target with no penalty on your initial roll). Point-Blank, Precise, and Rapid Shot, of course...

From there, I guess you need to start looking at other damage boosters. Dragonfire Inspiration is probably the biggest, but there are also things like Dragonfire Inspiration, Knowledge Devotion, and Soulmelds like Sighting Gloves.

For the former, Bard works, but you can also use things like Harmonic Knight or Smite to Song Paladin. Going with Killoren for your race lets you take Charming the Arrow for SADness.

For the second, you can get pretty decent returns withoyt maxing out skills. Collector of Stories gives +5 for just two skill points, and-- weird as it sounds-- a dip in Truenamer can really help. (There's a first level utterance that gives a +10 to your next check with no duration limit, and another that gives +5 to any skill check.) Cloistered Cleric 1 (Elf, War, Knowledge)/Targeteer Fighter 2/Truenamer 1-2 would make a good start.

For the last, Sighting Gloves give +1 damage/essentia invested, and Incarnate Avatar (Chaos) gives an equal attack boost. Targeteer Fighter 2/Incarnate 3-4/Ironsoul Forgemaster, perhaps?

Is there any way to get utterances through feats? And don't I need a bunch of skillpoints in Truespeak for that? Also, I checked ToM and didn't find this +10 utterance


While soulknife is terrible, soulbow is actually fairly decent - adding your wisdom to damage rolls on what become magic weapons with enough class levels. It does require 2 levels of the worst player character class (and third worst class full stop) in the game, but the reward is a decent archer-type. Phase arrow is always funny for shooting creatures you can't see but know are there somehow. Finally, being able to conjure a different +3 special ability each time is pretty sweet - and the extra soulknife levels for a +9-equivalent arrow aren't great but aren't the worst. You might want levels in something full-bab, though.


Soulbow IS pretty sweet. You can get the same stat to attack and damage without issue, you can make Lucky mind arrows to reroll every attack you make, you can stack TWF and Rapid Shot to unleash massive volleys, you can dip into Shiba Protector for another iteration of Wis to attack and damage...

Colour me intrigued. Yeah, 2 levels of Soulknife is pretty terrible, but Soulbow seems half-decent.

Couple questions that I couldn't find the answer to: What is the range for soul arrow? Can I combine it with targeteer Fighter for Wis and Dex to damage?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Is there any way to get utterances through feats? And don't I need a bunch of skillpoints in Truespeak for that? Also, I checked ToM and didn't find this +10 utterance
...you're right, sorry. The Utterance I was thinking of is Hidden Truth, but I forgot that it's a 2nd level. You can access low-level Utterances through feats-- Minor Utterance of the Evolving Mind gives you one utterance with only skill ranks as a requirement, and can be taken multiple times. If you know two Utterances you can take Utterance of the Evolving Mind for a 2nd level, than Utterance of the Crafted Tool and then Utterance of the Perfected Map. (Though you shouldn't take Crafted Tool, because 1st level Lexicon of the Crafted Tool Utterances are bad).

You do need to invest skill points, but keeping one skill max'd, even cross-class, isn't that terrible a burden. You can spend more feats on things like Able Learner or Truename Training if you really want.


Colour me intrigued. Yeah, 2 levels of Soulknife is pretty terrible, but Soulbow seems half-decent.

Couple questions that I couldn't find the answer to: What is the range for soul arrow? Can I combine it with targeteer Fighter for Wis and Dex to damage?
"The bolt is identical in all ways (except visually) to an arrow shot from a composite longbow" would mean a 110ft range increment. You can't combine it with Targeteer, unfortunately, as that only works when you're replacing Strength. The Dead Eye feat would work to add Dex when you're within 30ft, though. You even get Weapon Focus for free with those Soulknife levels!

[Nifft]

The Holy Warrior [Reserve] feat gives you bonus weapon damage based on your highest uncast War Domain slot.

I think that counts as technically not spell damage... but it's very much spell-related.

[Psyren]

It's quite easy actually, all you need is non-spell bonus damage that ISN'T precision damage. Favored Enemy, Judgment/Bane, Smite, even Weapon Training and Weapon Specialization will all do this.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Colour me intrigued. Yeah, 2 levels of Soulknife is pretty terrible, but Soulbow seems half-decent.

Couple questions that I couldn't find the answer to: What is the range for soul arrow? Can I combine it with targeteer Fighter for Wis and Dex to damage?

Mind Arrows are fired as though from a composite longbow, so they'll have a 110 ft. range increment.

Targetteer only allows you to replace your Str bonus to damage with your Dex bonus with ranged attacks. It would allow you to use it with a crossbow for example, since you don't normally add your Str bonus to that. The same goes for mind arrows, you don't normally add your Str bonus to damage, so you don't get to replace that with your Dex bonus.

However, a Soulbow is very SAD, you can go Wis >>> Dex > Con > whatever, as long as your Dex is high enough to get the feats you'll need. You can take Swordsage or Monk levels to add your Wis bonus to AC, and use Zen Archery to use it for ranged attack rolls. You only use one hand to fire a mind arrow, so you can use TWF or even Multiweapon Fighting with them.

At Soulbow 2, you get to add a +1 equivalent ability to ever mind arrow you fire. You can pick Lucky (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/weapons.htm#lucky), which allows every missed mind arrow to get one reroll on the attack.

I would go Swordsage 2/ Soulknife 2/ Swordsage 1/ Soulbow 1+, grabbing another Swordsage level whenever you'll have the initiator level to get a choice maneuver or stance, like the Mongoose boosts. You could instead go (nonpsionic) Thri-Kreen LA +1 or +2/ HD 2/ Monk 1/ Soulknife 2/ Soulbow 1+, with multiweapon fighting to fire even more mind arrows. You may consider replacing Monk 1 with Swordsage 2 in that case just because it's so much better.