Monk and mage armour

[Scottlang]

I have a monk, who wants to use a potion of mage armour to boost his AC, which at the moment is +3 dex, +3 wis, +1 ironhide & +1 doge, so now 18, at level 2. He now wants to buy potions of mage armour, so he has an AC22... Does this stack??

[rel]

If you mean the pathfinder ironhide feat then yes, it should all stack.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

+1 doge+1 Doge, coming right up!

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Yj7ja6BANLM/maxresdefault.jpg


Does this stack??Doge bonuses always stack.

[Malacandra]

Mage armor gives you a +4 armor bonus to AC so as long as you have nothing else giving armor bonuses you're golden. Potions, or a wand buddy for even better cost saving, are far cheaper than bracers of armor +4, the monk's other likeliest source of armor bonus.

For a monk you should be looking for as many sources of different types of armor bonus as you can, because they all stack; and also, by all means grab as many different sources of dodge bonus also, because they too all stack. This is part of what lends the crane style tree such attraction.

[Zombimode]

For a monk you should be looking for as many sources of different types of armor bonus as you can, because they all stack

That is not correct. Armor boni don't stack.

[Coretron03]

That is not correct. Armor boni don't stack.

I would assume he meant something else, as in the same post they said that armour bonuses don't stack.

[Mordaedil]

That's the problem with armor class having an type called armor.

By context, you can tell he means you want as many sources of AC as possible.

[haplot]

Out of curiosity, wouldn't the fact that mage armor is as a typed armor bonus, the monk would lose AC because of that fact?

I'm AFB atm, but am I wrong in remembering that if monks are using armor they lose some of their class boosting AC?

[Hish]

That's only if they're wearing actual armor. An armor bonus doesn't count.

[bahamut920]

It depends upon how the DM interprets "wearing armor". Many DMs rule that Monks cannot be suffering an armor check penalty or have a maximum Dexterity bonus imposed upon them. This allows the Monk to wear certain items designated as "armor" but that do not impose limits on your movement. Other DMs interpret this as "cannot be wearing a piece of equipment designated as armor". The mage armor spell grants an armor bonus to AC, but does not put armor in your Body magic item slot, nor does it impose a check penalty or maximum Dexterity bonus upon the character. Only the strictest interpretation of "cannot be benefiting from an armor bonus to AC" disallows mage armor and similar spells.

Considering Wizards of the Coast has made monk characters (both as NPCs and as example characters) with bracers of armor IIRC, they seem to subscribe to a more lenient interpretation of the monk's AC Bonus ability.

[Pugwampy]

Out of curiosity, wouldn't the fact that mage armor is as a typed armor bonus, the monk would lose AC because of that fact?

Mage Armour is described as a field of force .

In this lawyers opinion it can stack with shield spell which is described as a shield of force but only pointing in one direction

[Zombimode]

It depends upon how the DM interprets "wearing armor".

There is no room for Interpretation. The Monk abilities always talk about "wearing armor". Armor is a specific class of items. An item needs to be classed as "armor" for it being armor.

Mage Armor (regardless of how it came to affect the Monk) is not armor. It is not even an item that could be "worn". It is a spell effect that provides an armor Bonus.

Bracers of Armor are also not armor. Though it is an item it belongs to a different class (namely "Wondrous Item").

[Solaris]

Mage Armour is described as a field of force .

In this lawyers opinion it can stack with shield spell which is described as a shield of force but only pointing in one direction

More importantly, the two spells provide different types of AC bonuses. Mage armor provides an armor bonus, while shield provides a shield bonus. By the rules, they stack.

[Mordaedil]

By and large that is kind of the point of playing an Abjurant Champion. +9 AC from Mage Armor and Shield spell.

Does any other spell actually apply? I meant, technically mage armor doesn't apply to begin with.

[bahamut920]

There is no room for Interpretation. The Monk abilities always talk about "wearing armor". Armor is a specific class of items. An item needs to be classed as "armor" for it being armor.

Mage Armor (regardless of how it came to affect the Monk) is not armor. It is not even an item that could be "worn". It is a spell effect that provides an armor Bonus.

Bracers of Armor are also not armor. Though it is an item it belongs to a different class (namely "Wondrous Item").
I've never heard of anyone banning monks from using mage armor, shield, or bracers of armor, and I personally subscribe to the first interpretation I mentioned ("can't be suffering an armor check penalty or max Dex bonus", which allows certain "armors" like the haramaki as a way for monks to hang armor special abilities), but I can see a DM reading the ability that way.

My post was actually in opposition to that interpretation, however - I presented it last, and as the strictest of the interpretations, and I also pointed out that there are characters Wizards has made for the purpose of demonstrating the monk class which violate that interpretation.


By and large that is kind of the point of playing an Abjurant Champion. +9 AC from Mage Armor and Shield spell.

Does any other spell actually apply? I meant, technically mage armor doesn't apply to begin with.
There are a few spells, most notably luminous armor and its greater upgrade in the Book of Exalted Deeds. They're Sanctified spells, however, and require you to take feats to get access to them as well as dealing ability damage every time you cast them IIRC. The other spells are mostly situational, like ectoplasmic armor, which is a spell from Ghostwalk which affects touch AC. So the most likely spell you're going to use it with is shield. Argent Savant affects mage armor though, which is why I've seen people recommend it alongside Abjurant Champion.

[Zombimode]

By and large that is kind of the point of playing an Abjurant Champion. +9 AC from Mage Armor and Shield spell.

Does any other spell actually apply? I meant, technically mage armor doesn't apply to begin with.

Well, Luminous Armor gets often cited. But it is an exalted spell, so its atcual relevance is probably far, far lower then theory-crafting would indicate.



I've never heard of anyone banning monks from using mage armor, shield, or bracers of armor, and I personally subscribe to the first interpretation I mentioned ("can't be suffering an armor check penalty or max Dex bonus", which allows certain "armors" like the haramaki as a way for monks to hang armor special abilities), but I can see a DM reading the ability that way.

Oh, I'm not argueing that :smallamused:
There is a difference between "There is room for Interpretation" and "People will have different reads".

There are always some people drawing the wildest (and completely unfounded) conclusions from very simple clear-as-crystal matters. But People doing that does not mean that there is actual room for Interpretation.

In the case of Monks and armor, People argueing that Monks can't wear Bracers of Armor without loosing benefits of class Features are flat-our wrong, in the same sense that saying a natural 20 on a skill check is an automatic success is wrong.

[emeraldstreak]

Luminous Armor is fine. A short-lived, but powerful option is (outsider/otherwordly feat)+(alter self via casting/spellscarred feat)+scintillating scales. Shift into Dwarven Ancestor, cast Scales, profit plenty of Deflection AC.

[Elkad]

if partially charged wands are available and someone in the party can use it, I'd go with that instead of potions.

If there is a mage in the party who casts Mage Armor on himself, by about 4th level the Monk wants to pick up a Pearl of Power and give to the mage. And chip in a third of the cost of his Rod of Lesser Extend.
2,000gp gets the Monk 8 hours of Mage Armor a day (increasing by 2 hours every time the mage levels up)

[haplot]

As for monks being able to use mage armor and keeping their class ac bonuses, maybe ive just had bad luck when it comes to DMs when I've been playing a monk.

[Solaris]

As for monks being able to use mage armor and keeping their class ac bonuses, maybe ive just had bad luck when it comes to DMs when I've been playing a monk.

... Legendarily bad, yes. Until this thread it simply never occurred to me that someone could mistake a spell or item that grants an armor bonus to AC for a suit of armor. Did you ask that DM how you could wear a spell?

[KillianHawkeye]

There are a few spells, most notably luminous armor and its greater upgrade in the Book of Exalted Deeds. They're Sanctified spells, however, and require you to take feats to get access to them as well as dealing ability damage every time you cast them IIRC.

Sanctified spells don't require any feat to use. You just need to be a Good-aligned prepared caster (spontaneous casters can't use them for some reason). Also, the ability damage happens when the spells end, not when they're cast.

[ATHATH]

They're Sanctified spells, however, and require you to take feats to get access to them as well as dealing ability damage every time you cast them IIRC.
Sanctified spells are castable by default (without needing any feats) by any Good or Neutral prepared spellcaster. Spontaneous spellcasters can cast/learn Sanctified spells by gaining a way to prepare spells, such as through the Arcane Preparation feat.

Luminous Armor and Greater Luminous Armor only deal piddly amounts of STR damage to you when you cast them, which can easily be negated or healed (even natural stat damage healing (especially with items or feats that boost it) is a pretty good option here).

If you don't want to use Sanctified spells, just use Greater Mage Armor, which, unlike its lesser counterpart (Mage Armor), is an Abjuration spell and thus can be used with Abjurant Champion (IIRC).

Oh, and don't forget that the Paragnostic Apostle PrC can also boost the AC bonus gained from spells (I don't remember if the bonus applies to spells that you cast or spells that you receive, though....).

[KillianHawkeye]

If you don't want to use Sanctified spells, just use Greater Mage Armor, which, unlike its lesser counterpart (Mage Armor), is an Abjuration spell and thus can be used with Abjurant Champion (IIRC).

I'd like to know where you found this hypothetical Abjuration version, because the one in the Spell Compendium is still Conjuration....

[CharonsHelper]

To get Mage Armor as a monk - my preferred option is a Pearl of Power to give to your wizard/sorcerer buddy to cast it. (other than in PFS when I use Prestige Points for a wand and buy a few potions for the occasions when there is no one who can cast it)

[Bebbit]

Another easy way to boost it is with Natural Armor Bonus spells like Barkskin. It stacks with both Armor and Shield bonuses.

[ATHATH]

I'd like to know where you found this hypothetical Abjuration version, because the one in the Spell Compendium is still Conjuration....
I might have misremembered it.

[Segev]

Yeah, if in a party with a wizard or sorcerer, he very likely already has mage armor cast for himself daily. A Pearl of Power and a request he cast it on you as well would be the most economical approach.

[ottdmk]

At higher levels Extended Greater Mage Armor is nice. Takes a fourth level slot, but keeping a party member alive is generally worth it. :smallbiggrin:

[Elkad]

At higher levels Extended Greater Mage Armor is nice. Takes a fourth level slot, but keeping a party member alive is generally worth it. :smallbiggrin:
The same Lesser Rod of Extend you pitched in for back at 3rd level works for that too. Monk may need to upgrade his donated Pearl of Power though. 9,000gp is high, but a lot cheaper than +6 Bracers of Armor at 36,000gp

[Deophaun]

Armor boni don't stack.
Well, that's because armor is heavy, even in Kenya, so you don't want people wearing it when making a human pyramid.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Well, that's because armor is heavy, even in Kenya, so you don't want people wearing it when making a human pyramid.I think that means "multiple sets of bones." So plenty of skeletons?

Skeletons don't really stack, but the bones apparently do, if various necropolises have anything to say about it. You have to take the skeletons apart, though, and store each type of bone in its own cubby.

[Segev]

I think that means "multiple sets of bones." So plenty of skeletons?

Skeletons don't really stack, but the bones apparently do, if various necropolises have anything to say about it. You have to take the skeletons apart, though, and store each type of bone in its own cubby.

If you animate them, they can stack like a human pyramid when you order them to.