Rogue/Cleric

[Pinjata]

Hey guys,

We are starting a new short campaign and I'd like to play dualclass rogue/cleric with Death domain. Do you have any mechanical advice on how to approach this? Races may be human or half-elf. Basically I'd appreciate advice on how to combine small array of cleric spells with rogues' abilities.

Thanks

[Arkhios]

Depending on how far do you expect the short campaign to go, the options might wary quite a bit.

For starters I'd say that you might want at least rogue 2 for that sweet Cunning Action.

[Pinjata]

Depending on how far do you expect the short campaign to go, the options might wary quite a bit.

For starters I'd say that you might want at least rogue 2 for that sweet Cunning Action.

We will finish at level 5. This advice is really cool. I'd like to play something quite outside my comfort zone (straight melee/cleric/caster)

[Arkhios]

We will finish at level 5. This advice is really cool. I'd like to play something quite outside my comfort zone (straight melee/cleric/caster)

My take of a Cleric 3-4 (Death Domain)/Rogue 1-2 would look like this (assuming point-buy with 27 points):

STR 8, DEX 16, CON 14, INT 10, WIS 16, CHA 8; Variant Human (+1 dex, +1 wis) Feat: War Caster (I'd start as a cleric)

Since you have proficiency in all weapons, you could use two scimitars, refluffing them as Kukri's and thanks to War Caster you could be dual wielding almost all the time.

For reference, a few fairly thematic pictures which depict a Black Flame Zealot (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Flame_Zealots), which I found very fitting for your concept (although Kossuth isn't concerned with death per se):
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100526173154/forgottenrealms/images/e/ef/Black_flame_zealot.jpghttps://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/forgottenrealms/images/e/e1/BlackFlameZealot.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140424131956

I'd suggest the following progression:

1. Cleric 1: Reaper (two targets instead of one with a necromancy cantrip that normally targets only one creature; best choice would be Chill Touch, which isn't bad; I've seen a Death domain cleric in action, and it was pretty sick as damage dealer) + martial weapon proficiency
2. Cleric 2: Channel Divinity: Touch of Death (extra 9 (5 + cleric level x 2) necrotic damage with a melee attack 1/rest; NOTE: not only with weapons, this also works with your spells, such as Inflict Wounds which is insane!)
3. Rogue 1: Sneak Attack +1d6, Expertise (Stealth & maybe Religion just because you're a cleric? Or just because those skills would be perfect in the perspective that the original 3.5 prestige class required high Hide, Knowledge Religion, and Move Silently! :smallbiggrin:)
4. Cleric 3: Touch of Death improves (extra 11 necrotic damage 1/rest) ... and of course, 2nd level spell slots and spells.
5a. Rogue 2: Cunning Action: Bonus action to Hide, for example, would be quite nice....
5b. Cleric 4: Touch of Death improves (extra 13 necrotic damage 1/rest) Ability Score improvement: (Dex or Wis +2 (to 18), Medium Armor Master (get the most out of your armor proficiencies without hindering your stealthiness), or Tough (in melee, you're getting hit more often, so 10 more hit points never hurts you)

[Citan]

Hi OP ;)

I'll give another Cleric 3 / Rogue 2 suggestion, with a different progression.

Since you want to attack in melee, but not necessarily stay into mele, I'd argue that having the ability to disengage as a bonus action will be much more useful to survive at low level.

So I'd aim for Cleric 1 / Rogue 2 first (whichever starting class depending on whether you prefer resilience over AOE or debuff spells, and extra skill or not). The advantage of that is that you still get twin Chill Touch, but you can also Bless yourself. Then finish Cleric.

OR, if you prefer having the nova damage as illustrated by Arkhios or if you want to hold the frontline, then follow his progression but don't hesitate to cast Shielf of Faith on yourself rather than Bless (and you can strongly consider his 4 /1 with MAM alternative too).

[Biggstick]

How long is a "new short campaign?" What level do you expect to get up to? What levels can you expect a majority of your play time to be at? Do you want to be more of a Rogue or more of a Cleric? Is there a particular "role," you're trying to fill in the party?

[Spacehamster]

How long is a "new short campaign?" What level do you expect to get up to? What levels can you expect a majority of your play time to be at? Do you want to be more of a Rogue or more of a Cleric? Is there a particular "role," you're trying to fill in the party?

He said level 5. :)

[Biggstick]

He said level 5. :)

That's what I get for not mentally processing each comment lol.

The point would still stand regarding if the OP wants to be "The Rogue," or "The Cleric."

[Arkhios]

That's what I get for not mentally processing each comment lol.

The point would still stand regarding if the OP wants to be "The Rogue," or "The Cleric."

Eh, I dunno. I think you could form a path smack-dab in-between and qualify equally as both.

[MrStabby]

For 5 levels i would prefer rogue 3, cleric 2.

With arcane trickster you can get the same spell slots as cleric 3 anyway - replacing level 3 cleric spells with wizard spells instead. 3 levels of rogue will get you 2d6 sneak attack so you won't be falling too far behind dedicated frontliners in damage (and with the advantages of cunning action as well). Two levels of cleric gives you channel divinity - something you will appreciate if you ever face undead.

If you are less concerned about the channel divinity you could swap the second cleric level for another rogue one to pick up an ASI. You would be 1 d6 of sneak attack behind a full rogue but with good cantrip options and with a good mix of spells.

[Arkhios]

For 5 levels i would prefer rogue 3, cleric 2.

With arcane trickster you can get the same spell slots as cleric 3 anyway - replacing level 3 cleric spells with wizard spells instead. 3 levels of rogue will get you 2d6 sneak attack so you won't be falling too far behind dedicated frontliners in damage (and with the advantages of cunning action as well). Two levels of cleric gives you channel divinity - something you will appreciate if you ever face undead.

If you are less concerned about the channel divinity you could swap the second cleric level for another rogue one to pick up an ASI. You would be 1 d6 of sneak attack behind a full rogue but with good cantrip options and with a good mix of spells.

There are a few "problems" with arcane trickster/cleric though. First of all, you'd only know 1st level spells from either class. Secondly, to make both spell lists worthwhile, I'd rather not dump int (even 10 is a dump). Most Illusion and Enchantment spells require a saving throw or at least have a DC for a purpose other than saving throw that's calculated with Intelligence. So, to be decent with both spell lists, you'd have to spread your stats among not two but three primary stats + constitution which everyone should have.

That said, yeah, I did consider Arcane Trickster/Cleric as well, but felt that 2nd level spell slots from Cleric alone would be better over all. Also, I'd say that Touch of Death is easily superior to 1d6 more sneak attack, even if it's usable only once per rest.

[Citan]

There are a few "problems" with arcane trickster/cleric though. First of all, you'd only know 1st level spells from either class. Secondly, to make both spell lists worthwhile, I'd rather not dump int (even 10 is a dump). Most Illusion and Enchantment spells require a saving throw or at least have a DC for a purpose other than saving throw that's calculated with Intelligence. So, to be decent with both spell lists, you'd have to spread your stats among not two but three primary stats + constitution which everyone should have.

That said, yeah, I did consider Arcane Trickster/Cleric as well, but felt that 2nd level spell slots from Cleric alone would be better over all. Also, I'd say that Touch of Death is easily superior to 1d6 more sneak attack, even if it's usable only once per rest.
I strongly disagree on this. ;)
You are really painting the thing much blacker than it is.

True, having no 2nd level spells would be a tad regrettable, then again, for a melee character it would not be that bad either. After all, Cleric have enough 1st level spells that can be upscaled to good effect (just Bless, on a 4-man party, needs to be upcast).

And there is absolutely no need for high INT either: Rogue will know only three spells, two of which must be enchantement or illusion.
Shield or Find Familiar would obviously take the third place.
As for restricted spells, between Disguise Self (sneak), Sleep (sneak/control one or two enemies), Color Spray (1-turn only but no save) and even Silent Image (even if your DC is low, it still takes an action to examine or a physical interaction to reveal it's false. With smart thinking against not-too-smart foes, it may dupe them without even them realizing anything)... OP has ample choice of spells which don't care much (or at all) about your INT.

Only way it could ever cause problem was if OP was actually asking for a build going at least up to character 10, with Rogue as the main class. Because then indeed, having a low INT would fairly restrict spell selection until you get access to 2nd level spells, which would be very late or maybe never.
On a 5-th level build? No problem at all. :)

The main reason I didn't suggest it myself was that OP seemed more interested in the Clerical way with just a tad on Rogue for the sneaky melee part, not the reverse. ^^

[Pinjata]

Thanks for all the help guys. In the end I decided - just for fluff reasons - to take Rog1/Clr1 when starting. Next will be rogue, to get Cunning action, etc, etc. I'd appreciate any comment on this, especially, if I did something wrong. This is my first multiclass character.

https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1371594