Dragon Riding

[VoxRationis]

So my DM is working with the player making a paladin/cavalier in our current game. Currently, the paladin is riding a griffon, but the DM is pushing him towards some sort of dragonrider prestige class from a Forgotten Realms book. Does anyone know of this class? Could you let me know what book it's in?

[WeaselGuy]

As far as I know, there are 2 different prestige classes called "dragonrider". One is in the Draconomicon, and basically just gives you a bunch of bonus feats and abilities, geared towards riding dragons. The other is from the DragonLance Campaign Setting, and it's called "Dragon Rider". I'm pretty sure this one actually gets you a dragon as your mount, as a class feature. Also of note is the Zhentarim Skymage, from Forgotten Realms: Lords of Darkness. This one actually gets you a mount with HD based on your Charisma modifier. Dragons are on the list of acceptable mounts.

[PhantasyPen]

The only dragon rider I know of is from Draconomicon... Also how is your DM "pushing" this player toward's the prestige class, and why would they do that for that matter?

[WeaselGuy]

The only dragon rider I know of is from Draconomicon... Also how is your DM "pushing" this player toward's the prestige class, and why would they do that for that matter?

DragonLance Campaign Setting, p 77
Dragon Rider

Base Attack Bonus: +10
Skills: Handle Animal 8 ranks Ride 8 ranks
Feats: Leadership , Mounted Combat , Resist Dragonfear
Special: Must have ridden a dragon.

10 levels long, gives a Dragon Cohort at 1st level, medium BAB progression, and only 1 dead level.

[Fizban]

The Dragonlance Dragon Rider PrC is actually good. It starts out by modifying your Leadership feat to work the same as Dragon Cohort from Draconomicon (reduced LA for a better dragon). Then it adds an 8HD/10 levels special mount progression without removing the fact that your dragon is a cohort (and thus can level up with you, or be fired and replaced with a better dragon). Finally, it gives you some bonus feats to assign to your dragon and make sure it's combat style at least somewhat matches your own, and some more bonuses here and there.

The only problem is the usual problem, needing a Large dragon for a Medium rider. That's solved by the Mighty Steed feat on Bestiary of Krynn p36, which lets a creature carry other creatures equal to its size, so that Dragonriders can get mounted faster. Well that and the 1,000gp/HD cost it charges to hire the dragon in the first place, which is the same amount as Draconomicon charges for using a dragon as a Special Mount. Which is funny since Dragon Cohort, the most mercenary of the options, doesn't charge anything.

On the other hand, Griffons are already plenty good, as Pounce actually combines with lance charging. The only reason to use a dragon is for the increased overland speed (at cost of maneuverability), or for the breath weapon (which even with reduced LA is pretty meh, hope you got a metallic with a good disabling alternate). I assume the DM is pushing for Dragon Rider because dragons are cool and he wants to let the guy have a dragon. If the player doesn't want to pay a bunch of money for something they don't want, the DM should probably stop suggesting it.

If the DM simply expects the Griffon to stop being useful, then all they need to do is pick out some higher level alternate mounts- the DMG provides the full rationalization behind the examples given.

Edit- Unless what they want is for him to stop taking Cavalier because of scary charges?

[Rebel7284]

Those are some strange HD that Dragonrider gets that don't give feats or skills but do give BAB and Saves. I think the Bard's Inspire Greatness is the only other ability that works like that.

[VoxRationis]

Dragons are a big part of the setting, and actually form part of the aristocracy in the setting. I assume this is part of why my DM has been pushing it.
Thanks for the advice! I took a look at the prestige class. Does anyone else feel like it is a little like playing a male angler fish? It seems like it just makes your character increasingly like a source of buffs for the real character, the dragon.

[Crake]

Your DM knows you don't have to take a class called "draogn rider" to have a dragon as a mount, right?

In fact, I have an ubermount build that focuses around using cleric levels, and prestige paladin/ranger levels to get an almost full progression dragon as a paladin special mount that also gets all the bonus HD and whatnot from the ranger's animal companion.

[Calthropstu]

Given that half dragons are a thing, it is safe to assume dragons will ride just about anything.

[darksolitaire]

Given that half dragons are a thing, it is safe to assume dragons will ride just about anything.

"There's more than one way to ride a dragon" -Jarlaxle

[VoxRationis]

Your DM knows you don't have to take a class called "draogn rider" to have a dragon as a mount, right?

In fact, I have an ubermount build that focuses around using cleric levels, and prestige paladin/ranger levels to get an almost full progression dragon as a paladin special mount that also gets all the bonus HD and whatnot from the ranger's animal companion.

He knew that, and I pointed it out again, just to be clear.

How do you get the dragon to qualify as an animal companion?

[Crake]

He knew that, and I pointed it out again, just to be clear.

How do you get the dragon to qualify as an animal companion?

Theres a feat that lets you get a dragon as your paladin steed, it's called dragon steed from draconomicon, and there's a feat that lets you make your paladin steed also gain the benefits of your animal companion, its called devoted tracker from complete adventurer. Then there's also the feat from dragon magazine called holy mount, which lets all your levels in divine casting classes stack for your paladin mount, which combines very well with prestige paladin and prestige ranger, with cleric base, since all your levels are divine casting levels. You can sorts make up for the lost animal companion levels with natural bond, I believe my build ended up with effective paladin level 21 and effective druid level 17 for paladin mount bonuses and animal companion bonuses. Could have gotten that up to 18 druid, but it would involve making the first 10 or so levels unplayable. Even so, you don't get your dragon mount until about level 9, simply because of prerequisites.

As a side benefit it also had 12th level cleric casting, with access to paladin and ranger exclusive spells, as well as 19 Bab by level 20

[Anthrowhale]

Draconomicon has rules for simply hiring a dragon for a year with no inherent limits on dragon HD.

[VoxRationis]

Theres a feat that lets you get a dragon as your paladin steed, it's called dragon steed from draconomicon, and there's a feat that lets you make your paladin steed also gain the benefits of your animal companion, its called devoted tracker from complete adventurer. Then there's also the feat from dragon magazine called holy mount, which lets all your levels in divine casting classes stack for your paladin mount, which combines very well with prestige paladin and prestige ranger, with cleric base, since all your levels are divine casting levels. You can sorts make up for the lost animal companion levels with natural bond, I believe my build ended up with effective paladin level 21 and effective druid level 17 for paladin mount bonuses and animal companion bonuses. Could have gotten that up to 18 druid, but it would involve making the first 10 or so levels unplayable. Even so, you don't get your dragon mount until about level 9, simply because of prerequisites.

As a side benefit it also had 12th level cleric casting, with access to paladin and ranger exclusive spells, as well as 19 Bab by level 20

I thought Dragon Steed only got you a dragonnel as a mount.

[daryen]

Honestly, I have never fully understood the concept of "dragon riders" in D&D. Dragons are more powerful, more durable, live way longer, are smarter, and are more magical than humans. It shouldn't be a rider and a dragon mount. It should be a dragon with his little human pet he keeps around for whatever reason. I am still kinda mystified by it.

Now, if you want to talk about a wyvern or whatever "just like a dragon, but stupider and no magic" creature takes your fancy, sure. Or if your setting has dumber and non magical actual dragon, sure. Then you can have a human rider and a dragon-ish mount. Or, of course, if the dragon is enslaved somehow (by magic or coercion or both), then go for it. But actual D&D dragons as mounts or "animal companions" makes zero sense to me given the general setting.

But then, I could be being an idiot. Please tell me what I am misunderstanding.

[Fizban]

Think of it this way: if a cat brought you cash and attacked your enemies with shocking proficiency for its size while also not abusing you like other cats, would you carry it around? Dragons think they're awesome, so being a "mount" is just easy money as long as their riders is properly respectful. The one thing dragons don't do is get powerful quickly- by the time they're big enough to carry a rider it's going to take them decades for each power increase, while a humanoid can go from kitten to saber-tooth tiger in a month. It's like being a pokemon trainer.

If dragons in the setting have however many class levels they feel like based on the DM's whim, then it's a lot less attractive.

[Crake]

I thought Dragon Steed only got you a dragonnel as a mount.

The dragonnel is the first available mount, but you can take more powerful dragons at the expense of getting less paladin special mount bonuses. There's a table on page 139 that shows dragon availability by paladin level, as well as on page 140, mount bonuses by mount availability level. The first true dragon available for a medium rider is a very young gold dragon at level 16, but until then, you can just use a dragonnel.

The build I made was actually a petal (tiny rider) on a faerie dragon (small mount) :smalltongue: But it can be used for any rider size really.