How to make Wendigo scary?

[Xavrias]

Little background, I'm currently running a western D&D campaign of sorts, so the campaign as a whole is not super serious I would say. However, my players are about to embark on an adventure for a mysterious reverend to retrieve a book of ancient celestial he says is an heirloom passed down through his family. He lost it in a big earthquake when his old parish, and chapel collapsed into a sinkhole. Now to get to the old chapel the pcs have to go through a pass in the White Vale Mtns, the Vale is a river valley of thick spruce trees between two incredibly tall mountains that block out a lot of the light, and it is in this travel period that I want a Wendigo, or possibly more than one to stalk and eventually attack the players.

Now the Wendigo have a lot to play with, they move fast, and I'm considering tuning that 120 ft speed even higher. They have disease and maddening whispers which are definitely useful in tandem, but ability damage itself isn't always super scary because it's a stat.

It also has the corner of the eye ability which I definitely want to play with, and for those of you who have seen Supernatural, I'm considering giving my Wendigo the ability to mimic voices. Which could come in handy as well.

The question I'm posing here is, a couple of my players are newish to D&D and have a solid foundation on roleplaying, so I want to lead them into new territory here. I want my Wendigo to come off as a truly scary creature, both in and out of game. I'm afraid that its heavy reliance on simply stat damage will make the unknown aspect of the creature lose its fear. How would you run this like a horror adventure, or what else would you add to make the encounter instill more dread? T

Thanks in advance for all of your help!

[Nifft]

Maybe it used to be a Shaper Psion, so when they rush to catch it, they only catch an Astral Construct. Repeat every hour, all night.


Alternately, it's paired up with a pack of Winter Wolves, and they stalk the party during the day-time, while the Wendigo strikes at night.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Since Wendigo is a template (in Fiend Folio for anyone wondering), you've got a lot of options. My first thought for an enemy in a shadowy forest was to apply it to a Shadow Mastiff (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/shadowMastiff.htm), but it can't be applied to Outsiders. In this case I would combine it with the Shadow Creature template in Lords of Madness (CR +1), which has the same Shadow Blend ability and can get it Fast Healing and a number of other traits.

What CR are you aiming for, or what character level and optimization level is your party? What base creature did you have in mind, or what does it need to include based on the origin story you're giving it, if any? Do you intend to give it resistance or immunity to fire to make it more difficult to defeat?

You could apply it to a Lycanthrope such as a Werewolf, and it could use its different forms to make them think there's more than one of them. You could give it animal mooks, possibly also with the Shadow Creature template. They would use hit and run tactics a bit, then the Wendigo would engage the party, get beaten back, and retreat to recover and stalk them as they travel.

[Avigor]

Another possibility (albeit arguably underhanded and definitely more work) is to describe to the players the general effect the ability damage would have without actually telling them that they have it (works best with mental ability scores imo), keeping track of appropriate numbers behind your screen.

[PhantasyPen]

Another possibility (albeit arguably underhanded and definitely more work) is to describe to the players the general effect the ability damage would have without actually telling them that they have it (works best with mental ability scores imo), keeping track of appropriate numbers behind your screen.

This is what I would consider my general approach to horror, give them the effects and how it's affecting them, maybe don't necessarily tell them the mechanical drawbacks until it becomes relevant, but make sure you don't come off as an jerkbutt about it.

[Bronk]

Yeah, for DnD, Wendigos are already pretty scary, if for no other reason than that, mechanically, they turn PCs into NPCs. But they're also very strong and dangerous. It's like super lycanthropy.

They're also super gross, IIRC, because when you succumb to the curse, you fly off so fast you leave your feet behind as bloody stumps! They're one of the more gruesome monster illustrations.

If your PCs are going through a dark scary forest literally infested with these things, I suggest:

-Playing up the visibility restrictions from the lighting and the trees, as well as restricting movement a bit when off trail due to the terrain.

-Discovering feet all over the place. Fresh feet on the ground, older feet here and there, maybe skeletal feet dangling from a tree with an old boot, that kind of thing. (This would be a good place to place some loot too, since some of the feet could have been in magic boots.)

-Having the Wendigos toy with the group a bit.

-Finding a group of defeated travelers with one survivor, and that survivor is infected with the curse, so your PCs can see firsthand what contracting the curse entails.

[Red Fel]

The question I'm posing here is, a couple of my players are newish to D&D and have a solid foundation on roleplaying, so I want to lead them into new territory here. I want my Wendigo to come off as a truly scary creature, both in and out of game. I'm afraid that its heavy reliance on simply stat damage will make the unknown aspect of the creature lose its fear. How would you run this like a horror adventure, or what else would you add to make the encounter instill more dread? T

Thanks in advance for all of your help!

I've said it before, I'll say it again: Horror is about atmosphere. By looking at the Wendigo as a bag of stats instead of an entire scenario, you lose track of what makes it compelling.

Let's start with the environment. Wendigos dwell in the frozen wastes where they first became Wendigos. Establish the scene. It's cold, it's snowy, it's overcast. At night, the world is a black pitch; during the day, either blizzard conditions fill the world with the dark of night, or brief moments of calm cast the landscape in a stark, blinding glitter. The land is still; everything is in hibernation, or simply dead. There's no birdsong, no rustling in the branches; all the noises of the wilderness to which you're accustomed are absent. It's just the crunch of adventurers' boots in snow, echoes from the hillsides, and the persistent howl of the wind.

That howl. It's always there. Even when things are calm and the sun is out, a sudden wind howls through the valley, echoing from the hills. At times, it's a moan, at times a roar. And at night, it's a constant - the wind whips around their camp like a living thing.

On their first night traveling through the valley, after they've set up camp, ask for Listen checks. Set an arbitrary DC, don't tell them what it is. If anyone fails, fine - the next night, the DC will be lower, and the next, until they all hear it. Anyone who succeeds, though, no longer hears just the wind. They hear a voice. Thereafter, whenever the wind blows, anyone who has made their Listen check may instead hear noises - growls, snarls, whispers, groans, voices - being carried on the wind. Nobody hears the same thing.

On their second night, ask for Spot checks. Again, for anyone who fails, the next night will be lower DC. This time, they notice that the campfire is burning just a little lower than last night. No matter how much wood they add, it's just a little lower. Each night, it's a little less bright, a little less warm.

After at least one person has noticed both the noise and the fire, it's time to spring the next surprise on them. Let them get to a part of the valley thick with trees. As they move through the trees, they rustle the branches. No Listen check required for this - if they stop moving, for any reason, the rustling continues. Just for a few moments, but enough that it's clearly not them. It's important that, up to this point, you've emphasized just how silent and empty this place is. The otherworldly stillness. Thus, when they hear that rustling continue in their wake, it should be a startling contrast.

Now, this is the fun part. At any point after you've unleashed the rustling, this can happen. If any character decides to call out - and you know the type, "Hello?" "Is anybody there?" That sort of thing - they are answered with total silence. No sound, no wind, no echo, not even a flutter. (The near-ever-presence of the wind, like the silence, should be established at this point.) That silence drags on, oppressively.

Then a loud, moaning voice answers with that character's name. And it sounds like it's growing closer. And the wind begins to pick up.

Think of the scene in Ghostbusters with Winston and the train. You're basically pulling that one.

If you've played your cards right, the PCs should be terrified beyond the capacity for rational expression. You've created an atmosphere of oppressive stillness, started to introduce hints of something unnatural, and finally revealed that they are not alone in this dreadful place. And now something is aware of them, and it is coming for them.

You could send a Kobold after them at this point and they'd soil themselves.

[Boci]

I think you might be pushing it too far there Red Fel, its basically cheating. In a horror game that's more forgivable, its part of the way you build the game, but this is a not so serious western game. You can change the mood of an encounter so that it contrasts to the rest of the story, but breaking out the whole tool box of a horror campaign without warning just seems to me like a cheap sucker punch. In a D&D game, I expect a rustling to have a source I can at least try to interact with on my own terms. In a horror game I accept this won't be the case. Ambushing me with this is not going to make a successful horror atmosphere, for me at least.

A compromise that I think is fair is to play your cards a bit closer to the chest than you normally would. Don't tell them they are taking a -2 penalty to wisdom checks, that's not scary. Instead, tell them they are finding it a little hard to focus, a nagging feeling they can't quite pin down is distracting them, and occasionally reference a fleeting figure in the corner of their eye.

[Blackhawk748]

I think you might be pushing it too far there Red Fel, its basically cheating. In a horror game that's more forgivable, its part of the way you build the game, but this is a not so serious western game. You can change the mood of an encounter so that it contrasts to the rest of the story, but breaking out the whole tool box of a horror campaign without warning just seems to me like a cheap sucker punch. In a D&D game, I expect a rustling to have a source I can at least try to interact with on my own terms. In a horror game I accept this won't be the case. Ambushing me with this is not going to make a successful horror atmosphere, for me at least.

A compromise that I think is fair is to play your cards a bit closer to the chest than you normally would. Don't tell them they are taking a -2 penalty to wisdom checks, that's not scary. Instead, tell them they are finding it a little hard to focus, a nagging feeling they can't quite pin down is distracting them, and occasionally reference a fleeting figure in the corner of their eye.

Except that they're gonna fight a Wendigo, you know, a monster created from a starving person going cannibal and now cant stop? There isnt really a way to use one without going horror. Otherwise you may as well just use a Troll or a Vampire, they eat people to.

You use a Wendigo because they hunt people. Its a human turned into a subhuman monster that preys upon other humans. Those things are grade A creepy. Plus dropping a horror quest into a normal game isnt all that weird.

I second what Red Fel (more or less) go full horror on this if your using a Wendigo. Use that Supernatural episode as your base and go from there. Wendigos are predators, they hunt people, make them feel hunted. They find its tracks around their campsite at night, they find a few signs they're being followed, and whats worse, it looks like these signs where left intentionally .

[Boci]

Except that they're gonna fight a Wendigo, you know, a monster created from a starving person going cannibal and now cant stop? There isnt really a way to use one without going horror. Otherwise you may as well just use a Troll or a Vampire, they eat people to.

Right, which I acknowledged. Changing the tone of a game for an encounter or two is a solid tactic and makes for a memorable session. Changing the base assumptions of the game though, to me at least, it just cheap.

Let me explain what I think would be my reaction to this if a DM suddenly dropped Red Fel's scenario on me in a game that hadn't been agreed upon as horror.


Let's start with the environment. Wendigos dwell in the frozen wastes where they first became Wendigos. Establish the scene. It's cold, it's snowy, it's overcast. At night, the world is a black pitch; during the day, either blizzard conditions fill the world with the dark of night, or brief moments of calm cast the landscape in a stark, blinding glitter. The land is still; everything is in hibernation, or simply dead. There's no birdsong, no rustling in the branches; all the noises of the wilderness to which you're accustomed are absent. It's just the crunch of adventurers' boots in snow, echoes from the hillsides, and the persistent howl of the wind.

Solid.


That howl. It's always there. Even when things are calm and the sun is out, a sudden wind howls through the valley, echoing from the hills. At times, it's a moan, at times a roar. And at night, it's a constant - the wind whips around their camp like a living thing.

Very good.


On their first night traveling through the valley, after they've set up camp, ask for Listen checks. Set an arbitrary DC, don't tell them what it is. If anyone fails, fine - the next night, the DC will be lower, and the next, until they all hear it. Anyone who succeeds, though, no longer hears just the wind. They hear a voice. Thereafter, whenever the wind blows, anyone who has made their Listen check may instead hear noises - growls, snarls, whispers, groans, voices - being carried on the wind. Nobody hears the same thing.

Knowledge check. Is the region known for it? Is it associated with any supernatural phenomenon or creatures?


On their second night, ask for Spot checks. Again, for anyone who fails, the next night will be lower DC. This time, they notice that the campfire is burning just a little lower than last night. No matter how much wood they add, it's just a little lower. Each night, it's a little less bright, a little less warm.

Survival/knowledge check. Why is this happening?


After at least one person has noticed both the noise and the fire, it's time to spring the next surprise on them. Let them get to a part of the valley thick with trees. As they move through the trees, they rustle the branches. No Listen check required for this - if they stop moving, for any reason, the rustling continues. Just for a few moments, but enough that it's clearly not them. It's important that, up to this point, you've emphasized just how silent and empty this place is. The otherworldly stillness. Thus, when they hear that rustling continue in their wake, it should be a startling contrast.

Experiment time. Does it follow us perfectly when we're stealth, what if only too of us move 10ft? We all move 10ft, then stop, then start again. Knowledge checks for what this could be, spot checks, throw out a detect spell, ect.


Now, this is the fun part. At any point after you've unleashed the rustling, this can happen. If any character decides to call out - and you know the type, "Hello?" "Is anybody there?" That sort of thing - they are answered with total silence. No sound, no wind, no echo, not even a flutter. (The near-ever-presence of the wind, like the silence, should be established at this point.) That silence drags on, oppressively.

No it doesn't Mr. DM, its drags on annoyingly and contrivedly. I press on, please keep further unexplained spooky stuff to a minimum and let me know when I can roll initiative.

[gkathellar]

You may want to look into the Inuit mythology that surrounds them. Wendigos represent the collapse of social taboos in the face of starvation, and speak to the dangers of claustrophobia and isolation from the wider world. Their mere presence raises the implication of cannibalism, the idea that someone, somewhere, already succumbed to their darker urges and became this abomination, and that you could too.

I'd put the players somewhere that has limited provisions and a decent population of NPCs in the midst of a raging blizzard, and focus on giving the story a strong sense of place. Introduce the wendigo first as an external threat laying siege to the base, tormenting from outside and attacking anyone who tries to brave the storm with all the advantages it has in terrible weather. It doesn't want to risk a direct attack, but it is very capable of hitting stragglers or seizing parts of the camp that are opened to the storm. Through its presence, introduce the internal threat that someone may attempt to save themselves from starvation by collaborating with the beast ... or imitating it. Have things start to go wrong with the defenses, and the creature's minions find ways into the encampment (with help from inside, no doubt), leading up to an eventual confrontation with not one but two cannibal blizzard spirits.

[Blackhawk748]

You may want to look into the Inuit mythology that surrounds them. Wendigos represent the collapse of social taboos in the face of starvation, and speak to the dangers of claustrophobia and isolation from the wider world. Their mere presence raises the implication of cannibalism, the idea that someone, somewhere, already succumbed to their darker urges and became this abomination, and that you could too.

I'd put the players somewhere that has limited provisions and a decent population of NPCs in the midst of a raging blizzard, and focus on giving the story a strong sense of place. Introduce the wendigo first as an external threat, and through it introduce the internal threat that someone may attempt to save themselves from starvation by collaborating with the beast ... or imitating it. Have things start to go wrong and the creature's minions find ways into the encampment (with help, no doubt), leading up to an eventual confrontation with not one but two cannibal blizzard spirits.

So more or less the plot of Ravenous, just with a blizzard. Never a terrible plan.

[Xavrias]

I've been busy most of the day so haven't been able to get back to this and I'm on my phone so bear with me on this reply.

My players are currently only level 3, and some of them as I said previously are newish. So the party as a whole I would is under optimized. But not too terrible. My wendigo was planned to be no more than a few levels of humanoid or so. And I may have more than one. I definitely want it to be dangerous. But I'm not looking to murder the party. They haven't pissed me off that much...yet ;)

Biffoniacus. For this reason I won't be giving it fire resistance. I feel that would be cruel. I do like the shadow creature template, thanks!

Avigor and Phantasypen. Definitely going to hide the ability penalties somewhat to not draw out the metagaming I think that's a great idea.

Bronk. I love the idea of scattered burnt feet. Hadn't even thought of that and would be a great clue as well to finding out what it is.

Red Fel, Blackhawk and Boci. First I love the imagery, and I am trying to angle my players towards horror in this adventure. I want to open them up to some new areas of role playing. I understand the problems with it from Boci's standpoints. But I think my players will follow me in this direction if they see I'm trying to invoke a new aspect of the game. I may not make it days and days of seemingly nothing. But growing the suspense and having the feelingof the creature toying with them is exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks for the ideas and insights.

Gkathellar. I think normally I'd agree, but due to the circumstances in place there won't be a lot of npcs around. It's already kinda been said that next to no one inhabits the Valencia since the quake that collapsed the Reverends old chapel.

Thanks everyone for the replies, I know this would be easier to follow if I had the time to do quotes on my phone. Open to further ideas. You guys are great!