How functional would a mtn dwarf frontline wizard be?

[Spacehamster]

Thinking starting fighter 1, then 19 wizard starting stats: 17/10/16/15/8/8 defensive style, fights with melee cantrips and a greatsword using plate armor. Probably necromancer or abjurer? All ASI's would go towards maxing INT and STR and getting CON to 18.

[nickl_2000]

Do you have time to wait until Xanathar's comes out? Seems like War Wizard would be right in your wheelhouse for this character.



You would eventually have 18 AC, Con prof for concentration saves, and assuming your DM allows you (with a two handed weapon) a free hand for casting. I don't see why this wouldn't work perfectly fine for you.

[PeteNutButter]

Fighter 1(and eventually 2)/wizard x is a common and solid build. Being a dwarf is a fine option.

[Spacehamster]

Fighter 1(and eventually 2)/wizard x is a common and solid build. Being a dwarf is a fine option.

Is action surge really worth the loss of an ASI and delaying spellcasting by 2 levels?

[xroads]

Thinking starting fighter 1, then 19 wizard starting stats: 17/10/16/15/8/8 defensive style, fights with melee cantrips and a greatsword using plate armor. Probably necromancer or abjurer? All ASI's would go towards maxing INT and STR and getting CON to 18.

At low levels, certainly. At mid to high levels you'd be missing the fighter's hit points & multiple attacks. Also at higher levels, armor class tends to be less important.

It is still a great build. You would be less squishy than most mages, so could afford to play less conservatively then normal.

Have you considered eldritch knight? I have a friend who plays a front line dwarven EK and he is always among the last people standing.

[Joe the Rat]

If you go Fighter 1, I'd be inclined to take Hill Dwarf. You will get armor proficiency from Fighter, and the extra HP per level will make more of a difference on that D6 hit die.

Abjurer is a strong choice, since you get the arcane ward (and eventually the ability to AW others).

[Spacehamster]

If you go Fighter 1, I'd be inclined to take Hill Dwarf. You will get armor proficiency from Fighter, and the extra HP per level will make more of a difference on that D6 hit die.

Abjurer is a strong choice, since you get the arcane ward (and eventually the ability to AW others).

Hill dwarf is not very good at swinging a greatsword tho.

[PeteNutButter]

Is action surge really worth the loss of an ASI and delaying spellcasting by 2 levels?

Not until much later. My fighter wizard is still 1/9 at the moment. Wizard progression too important.


Hill dwarf is not very good at swinging a greatsword tho.

Variant human is "optimal" race.

[Spacehamster]

Not until much later. My fighter wizard is still 1/9 at the moment. Wizard progression too important.



Variant human is "optimal" race.

Not for this build tho since it has no aim at any feats. :)

[Dimers]

At mid to high levels you'd be missing the fighter's hit points & multiple attacks.

Hit points, yes, but melee cantrips perform the same role as multiple attacks.

[Dimcair]

Why not Shield and Melee Cantrips?

Flavour your shocking grasp as sword-shaped or whatever for added badassery?

[Asmotherion]

Seems very good. I'd take an extra level in fighter for Action surge, and definitelly go Abjurer; It's just that good, either in melee or ranged.

Take a feat for Magic Initiate Armor of Agathys: Upcasting it not only replenishes your Ward, but also gives you extra temporary HP, (so that you can actually use your Ward to protect the Party without worrying too much about it turning against you), and if your Ward rund out, anyone attacking you in melee that round is going to have a big bad surprise comming at them.

Since you don't have the Charisma to pull it off, I won't really suggest Eldritch Blast, but you can instead take the SCAG cantrips with it; they use your STR/DEX for Attack/Damage, instead of your spellscore, so you can get them virtually for "free". They start being really good after level 5 either way, so don't worry if you don't have them from the strart (Still, I can understand if you want them for RP reasons).

Focus on Abjuration spells, Control spells and Buff spells, which will make you both a very good wizard, and a very good Tank/Melee damage dealer.

Your only true option if you want a second attack is PAM, though you mostly want it for other bennefits, since it works wonders with Booming Blade and War Caster.

I'd also prioritise Feats over ASI, as they give far more benefits. Still, that's your option.

[Renduaz]

The Wizard on it's own right is always able to squash other classes like insects a thousand times over starting from mid-level, least of all at level 20, so any build whose primary class is the Wizard is perfectly functional by definition. Choosing Dwarf and the progression you described will just give you less of a competitive edge over other Wizards, since the Bladesinger High Elf is going to outshine you in both melee, ASI, and being able to pull off some very good stunts by taking a long rest of only 4 hours in Meditation instead of 8 hours, while the Deep Gnome will outshine you with the +2 INT and using his small size and weight to do some fancy tricks with a variety of Wizard spells. These are the ideal races. You could match their INT at a much higher level, but naturally lose out on extra ASI's or a feat. Seeing as how Action Surge is your main trick, I'd advise ditching the dwarf in favor of the High Elf Bladesinger. That combo will actually give you the highest DPR possible (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?535244-Highest-consistent-plausible-DPR-possible) in the game at level 20, while even from first level, your DPR is only going to be slightly less than that of a pure Fighter.

[Spacehamster]

Why not Shield and Melee Cantrips?

Flavour your shocking grasp as sword-shaped or whatever for added badassery?

Got this picture in my head of a full plated dwarf covered in runes that channels his spells through his greatsword by pointing it dramatically at the target, this idea were all rule of cool not seeking to be optimized. :)

[Spacehamster]

The Wizard on it's own right is always able to squash other classes like insects a thousand times over starting from mid-level, least of all at level 20, so any build whose primary class is the Wizard is perfectly functional by definition. Choosing Dwarf and the progression you described will just give you less of a competitive edge over other Wizards, since the Bladesinger High Elf is going to outshine you in both melee, ASI, and being able to pull off some very good stunts by taking a long rest of only 4 hours in Meditation instead of 8 hours, while the Deep Gnome will outshine you with the +2 INT and using his small size and weight to do some fancy tricks with a variety of Wizard spells. These are the ideal races. You could match their INT at a much higher level, but naturally lose out on extra ASI's or a feat. Seeing as how Action Surge is your main trick, I'd advise ditching the dwarf in favor of the High Elf Bladesinger. That combo will actually give you the highest DPR possible (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?535244-Highest-consistent-plausible-DPR-possible) in the game at level 20, while even from first level, your DPR is only going to be slightly less than that of a pure Fighter.

Said nothing bout action surge mate, 1 fighter 19 wizard, don't want to gimp spell progression and ASI's for just a short rest burst. :)

[Arkhios]

Do you have time to wait until Xanathar's comes out? Seems like War Wizard would be right in your wheelhouse for this character.



You would eventually have 18 AC, Con prof for concentration saves, and assuming your DM allows you (with a two handed weapon) a free hand for casting. I don't see why this wouldn't work perfectly fine for you.

Seconded on War Magic tradition.

Also, AC 19, if you take Defense Fighting Style (Fighters are privileged to get it at 1st level!)

[Spacehamster]

Seconded on War Magic tradition.

Also, AC 19, if you take Defense Fighting Style (Fighters are privileged to get it at 1st level!)

Will probably wait as I in general have tons of ideas of concepts I want to try out and more options is always good. :)

[rigolgm]

Yeah, surely the only main point of taking being a Wizard when you're a Mountain Dwarf is for your Medium Armour proficiency. Although you'd still lack Shield proficiency, which is a gaping hole.

Once you get your breastplate, it still leaves you only +1AC better-off than just using the cheap Mage Armour spell (or no better off, if somehow you're getting DEX16 or better).

Being something other than Mountain Dwarf and multiclassing your first level in Cleric (or Fighter etc) can get you all the armour proficiencies you need (albeit slowing down your development).

From an optimisation point of view, maybe I'd consider being a Mountain Dwarf Wizard if I wanted to be a Necromancer, Illusionist, Adjuror or Evoker because those are the wizard classes where mutliclassing for 'free' armour proficiency is less attractive. That's because they tend to be backline support wizards who want to climb to strong spells quickly (which multiclassing hinders) and also because they are the Wizard classes who get most from the final level 20 Wizard ability (if they ever last that long) because they make frequent use of level 3 spells. However if you're going to be a backline support caster, why take a race with +0 INT bonus just to get armour anyway?

Like someone said above, let's see if the new Wizard school in Xanathar's Guide looks like a good fit for a Mountain Dwarf. But I'm sceptical. That kind of tanky spellcaster build feels more like the domain of Hill Dwarf Clerics (especially ones who are a Nature Cleric and take the Shillelah cantrip from the Druid list). Wizards are probably more fun than Clerics, though :)

[ZorroGames]

Admittedly biased since Mountain Dwarf is my go to race, I say it should work fine. As would Hill Dwarf or Variant Human but you have this character in play, right? Trundle on to victory.

This forum is very individual character optimization oriented. Frequently forgotten (or flat out ignored) are some other factors:

First, what are you intentions on this character’s play? You seem to have chosen those and they are very viable.

Second, what is the rest of your party playing and how does your character interact with them? My first character (mountain dwarf monk) usually was the only martial class with a rogue, a “battle allergic” cleric, and 2-3 casters (warlock, wizard, and often a Sorcerer,) so it matters a lot.

Third, you have already said that optimization was not prime, so are you looking to “cast and fight” or is role play driving this character? Both are valid but affect future building.

Last, because I am drinking my first cup of coffee, are you having fun (important) and are you party members appreciating your character (secondarily important) when you play?

[ZorroGames]

MC with cleric does not lessen your spell slots and Domain spells can be very useful.

[rigolgm]

This forum is very individual character optimization oriented. Frequently forgotten (or flat out ignored) are some other factors:

To be fair to those of us who replied with a heavy focus on optimisation, the original question was about that and not about personality.

A Mountain Dwarf as a Wizard seems like a fun starting point for a character who's fun to play. There are some lovely 25mm/28mm dwarf wizard miniatures available too.

I myself run a STR/CON-based melee Ranger build (a Hill Dwarf) even though high-DEX Ranger builds are probably much more effective. I think it's because almost 30 years ago I loved those old Games Workshop 'Bugman's Dwarf Rangers'. (Although - confession time - I did plead with the DM to let me use the Revised Ranger, which fixes some weaknesses!)

[ZorroGames]

To be fair to those of us who replied with a heavy focus on optimisation, the original question was about that and not about personality.

A Mountain Dwarf as a Wizard seems like a fun starting point for a character who's fun to play. There are some lovely 25mm/28mm dwarf wizard miniatures available too.

I myself run a STR/CON-based melee Ranger build (a Hill Dwarf) even though high-DEX Ranger builds are probably much more effective. I think it's because almost 30 years ago I loved those old Games Workshop 'Bugman's Dwarf Rangers'. (Although - confession time - I did plead with the DM to let me use the Revised Ranger, which fixes some weaknesses!)

Not meant as a slam, just an opinion about the unherent focus of many here. Optimization is an important consideration to remember but 5e lets you downplay it as your character design can fully function unoptimized and sometime suboptimized.

I like your ranger build and my planned Mountain Dwarf Ranger very much parallels your concept. I have seen Ranger builds with 10 (or less) for WI as some players seem to deemphasize spell casting outside combat.

[Dudu]

Thinking starting fighter 1, then 19 wizard starting stats: 17/10/16/15/8/8 defensive style, fights with melee cantrips and a greatsword using plate armor. Probably necromancer or abjurer? All ASI's would go towards maxing INT and STR and getting CON to 18.
Fighter 2/Abjurer 18 is a tested and aproved build.

I'd say abjurer has way more tools to be frontline than any other wizard subclass. Yeah, competes toe to toe with Bladesinger. Never did the math, but the Ftr2/Abj18 might be sturdier than Bladesinger full.

I'm assuming you're starting with Ftr, for the Con proficiency and heavy armor.

You're using greatsword, which is fine, just not the optimal option. That would be sword and board.
SnB would require Warcaster feat, which isn't half bad. It's great, actually. Adv on Con saves to keep concentration, AoO with green flame blade or, better yet, booming blade. All this on top of allowing you to actually going sword and board.

Not sure you even need 18 Con. 16 is already stellar. You could grab Heavy Armor mastery to make that 17 Str into 18 as well as getting a DR of 3 for non magical atks (makes difference, even in higher levels). Or the +1 Str/+1 Int, of course. Some wizard builds don't even require high ammounts of Int anyway. You can focus on buffs and battlefield control, like some melee clerics, and be happy.

[djreynolds]

I played a mountain dwarf abjurer, just half plate and I used shocking grasp in melee. He rocked. We got to level 13, but I had planned on getting a level of cleric for armor or just grabbing the heavy armor feat.

But shocking grasp is pretty strong.

[Klorox]

Said nothing bout action surge mate, 1 fighter 19 wizard, don't want to gimp spell progression and ASI's for just a short rest burst. :)

That short rest burst allows you to chuck two fireballs in one round, but to each his own.

While I agree that slowing down ASI’s sucks, you said yourself that you don’t need feats. What stats are you looking to pump?

BTW, I love the idea.