3.5e Need Bard Build Help (unique conditions and caveats)

[PangolinPie]

Okay this is a unique one so let me try to summarize the situation as briefly as possible.

My current character died in the last game. We’re currently on this particular plane where a far older campaign had left off due to problems within the group. DM suggested an easy fix would be to assume my old character is still here and I can just resume playing him.

This plane is controlled by a race of augmented “half constructs” that are similar to the Borg from Star Trek who seek perfection of body and mind by systematically eliminating the frailties of organic material in favor of metal and magic based technology. My old character has been their prisoner for 20 years, has himself been augmented and his brain manipulated and altered so much he’s now basically insane.

Once he was a human sorcerer who played closer to a bard, a court jester style performer who was a bit crazy to begin with. Due to all the mental tampering, DM said I could basically rebuild him as any other class base that fits his character so I decided ah what the hell...let’s go with an actual Bard.

There are some limitations though. Due to the nature of his augmentations (which grant some sweet construct immunities), the spell schools of Transmutation and Evocation are banned, limiting some of the more useful offensive spells on an already small spell list.

Of course I’m not even sure I WANT to focus so much on casting offensively as we already have a trigger happy glass cannon sorcerer in the party. With that in mind I may choose to focus more on bardic music, buffing, manipulation via illusions/enchantment and ranged attack (he’s an archer) picking off targets at a distance as he sings a jaunty tune or tells jokes and limericks.

The other reason I went with a Bard is I’m trying to prove to my DM (who thinks Bards suck in general) that they can be very effective (I’ve seen first hand their game breaking potential) but don’t want to take easy shortcuts to badassery via the usual Sublime Chord route which gives access to the wizard spell list. I basically want the bardiest Bard possible focusing only on what defines them; diplomancy, charisma, music/performing and possibly bard spell list focus despite the caveat. I wouldn’t even be against going full 20 levels of Bard if the build was interesting enough. I mean yeah I know with Sublime Chord it’s optional what spell list I pick from...but Bard spells only go as high as level 6 so it’s wasted potential.

I’d even be open to forgoing casting potential for more bardic music based abilities. PRSC’s like Warchanter that offer no casting progression but new songs could be fun especially with the boost to BAB.

Right now I’m looking at Lyric Thaumaturge since it advances bardic casting and the scant few wizard spells it grants doesn’t deviate too badly from his bardyness. Plus Sonic Might is a nice little work around the ban on evocation spells; it adds great damage bonuses to ANY spell with the sonic descriptor regardless of school. Sadly Sonic Weapon is off the list as that is a transmutation spell but would have made him LETHAL with a bow. And Lingering Song is obviously a must if I want to focus on bardic music and overlay more than one at a time. If I focus more on casting i’m looking at the Reach Spell and Chain Spell metamagics for chained comrade buff spells and Metamagic Song to reduce the cost. As an Archer he currently has the standard ranged triad along with close combat shot.

At his core he is a charismatic yet eccentric nut job who loves social situations, performing (singing, dancing but mostly comedy) and I can see him excelling at manipulation, deception and charming others to his will. However the mental trauma he experienced gave him an odd complex not unlike bi-polar disorder switching from eccentric whimsy to a more menacingly creepy demeanor randomly (kinda like Johnny Depp’s Mad Hatter). I actually was approved for a home brew flaw I found online for an extra feat that fits his painful past rather nicely:

https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Haunting_Flashbacks_(3.5e_Flaw)

He’ll also be the teams skill monkey with the Bardic Knack ACF (DM is willing to count any PRSC that advances Bardic Knowledge to count towards said skill bonuses).

Our current team is a gnome sorcerer, half elf cleric and human fighter. I’d like to keep archery as viable and effective as possible so the fighter isn’t left doing all the combat (the cleric has no idea how to play a cleric; ergo no melee prowess). I might be able to get a follower via the Leadership feat who can also provide additional melee support. My new character would be starting at level 14 and I messaged my DM about the Silverbrow Human thing for Dragonfire Inspiration but he totally shot it down. Also sorry but no ToB or Dragon Magazine; the more core and familiar of a traditional resource, the better. Stuff from Ebberon, Faerun, Forgotten Realms and Pathfinder he’s always willing to hear out but tend to be hit or miss at random. Also want to avoid dipping for only a few levels if possible; he’s not a fan of that LOL

Any ideas?

[Rebel7284]

Heartfire Fanner from Dragon #314 is a fairly fun prestige class. Grant up to three [Fighter] or [Any feat you know] feats to your whole party! Martial Study alone can add a lot of utility instantly. Since you can also add feats that you know, perhaps a two level dip into Chameleon for a floating feat can be good too? Free metamagic (sadly capped at +2 and not above the usual limit) is pretty excellent too. Song of the Heart is also a good feat and lets you use Bardic Music as a swift action.

edit: Extra Spell might be a good feat to have to share with your Sorcerer buddy. :D

edit edit: Wait Didn't see the note about no ToB or Dragon Magazine. Darn, well there goes all of my suggestions.....

[Darrin]

If you want to leverage Sonic Might, consider Born of Three Thunders + Quick Recovery. You'll want to buff the bajeebers out of your Will save or get something like Divine Grace to add Cha to your Will saves (Paladin 2, Hexblade 2, Soldier of Light 2, etc.). Force of Personality (Complete Adventurer) might work, although it's not clear if the daze from BoTT is mind-affecting.

How do you feel about Dragonfire Inspiration? Bard 8 with inspiration and Song of the Heart is pumping out +4d6 bonus damage on every attack, or +8d6 with Words of Creation.

[Hiro Quester]

No dragon and no DFI, a Bardy bard, with a traumatic history.

How about a debuffer bard, whose jokes, taunts, illusions and general creepiness debuff the enemy?

You of course need to take the doomspeak feat. The best debuffer in the game. A bardic music use in which you insult the enemy so terribly that they are -10 to all skill checks, attack rolls, and --most importantly-- saving throws for a round.

Take melodic casting, of course, so you can cast while using bardic music effects. The spell Harmonize enables you to start bardic music as a move action. Now you can insult your enemy as a move action and then use magic save-or-lose to defeat him, while your sorcerer and cleric also blast or dominate him.

You could even look at a fear bard, with inspire awe, haunting melody, etc.

Take disguise spell feat to work enchantments and illusions into your comedic and musical performances without being detected (audience has to beat your perform check with a spot check to tell that you are casting). This enables you to use your spells in social situations without detection.

For archery you could consider a bow of songs, or charming the arrow feat.

I strongly recommend JoshuaD's bard handbook (http://www.joshuad.net/new-bard-handbook/) for ideas. He covers a lot of good options for races, feats, play styles. It's a goldmine for filling out an interesting character concept like this.

Edit:
Finding a way to get intimidate as a class skill would help the creepiness and power of his comedic taunts. The Flexible Mind feat would be good (but it's dragobpn mag): you get two skills as in-class, and radiate an aura of chaos (which fits with the history and your homebrewed feat; try running it by your DM.

If you get intimidate, you can also invest in uses of it like Imperious Comand, scathing wit (dragon mag, though), to demoralize opponents.

Doomspeak also requires ranks in intimidate.

Further edit: for some reason I keep imagining this character as a gnome. It fits with the illusion, comedy, and the part-construct themes.

Yet another edit: have you considered the Divine Prankster PrC? Requires gnome and divine spells, but divine bard (or a cleric dip) would cover that. The class abilities seem tailor made to many aspects of your description.

[Togo]

You have two somewhat contradictory requirements - exemplify traditional bardic strengths and be effective in a world inhabited by constructs.

So one route would be to go stormsinger (Frostburn). This gives you some nice bardsong abilities, including a lightning attack and wind and weather control at a spellcaster level far in excess of the of a wizard or sorcerer. Since most of the effects are driven by caster level, this is very good. It is however, very situational.

A second route would be to go with heartfire fanner. You probably wouldn't be using the main feature that attract people, which are the ability to get bardic music without having previously been a bard, but the bardsong abilities are good.

And a third is straight bard. Don't forget that this route effectively gets more feats (because there is no feat-tax to take it).

It depends on which set of bard songs you like most. Bear in they start at different levels.

I wouldn't recommend warchanter. While this can be a good class, it's really better suited to a fighter/bard rather than a bard, and doesn't work well with archery. You'd have only two party members that would benefit from most of the abilities, and you aren't one of them.

I would suggest seeker of the song, partly because it gives a cool double bard song ability, and the low level 'harm all constructs' song might actually be useful to you in a borg-verse

So for example

Bard 1/fighter (targeteer)1/marshal3/stormsinger3/heartfirefanner2/seeker of the song X would work fine, giving you five levels of bard song, and 5 levels of songs from other classes. However that's probably not enough spellcasting, since you only get bard 6 in spells. An easier alternative would be Bard 5/stormsinger5/seeker of the song X. That gets you 4th level spells, and the rather awesome control winds ability, but you don't get the marshal ability to add your charisma bonus to perform and social skill checks.


I find the best way to really build on the bardic power is to use the spells harmonize and greater harmonize from races of stone. This allows you to use a bard song as a move action, allowing a bard song plus a spell per round, or two bard songs. I'd also suggest it's better to pick up the various bonuses to inspire courage, such as badge of valour, inspirational boost, song of the heart, and song of creation if the campaign will permit it, rather than worrying about progressing it with bard levels. That makes bard song much more digital, either you go for inspire greatness, or you don't. If you don't, you can take more p-classes, or even go with sorcerer, and get more bard-themed spells than you'd get as a bard.

Archery is fine at low levels, and the best boost to it is inspire courage. But at higher levels it becomes harder to justify in the face of better spells and bard songs, and is more of a back-up tactic. You'll need to spend feats and magic items on it to compete.


So, as a example of how combat could go...

Round 1 cast harmonise, sing inspire courage, cast inspirational boost
Round 2 trigger badge of valour, cast haste, sing inspire greatness/thunderstrike/inspired fight
Round 3 full attack with bow

[Goaty14]

Did somebody say Diplomacy? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=9714575&postcount=5)

[Hiro Quester]

Heart fire Fanner is an excellent class (I played one). The bardic music to enable use of fighter feats is amazing; the ability to earn other bardic music abilities (IG) if you meet the perform requirements is great too.

But it has a feat tax to get in. And more importantly it’s in Dragon Mag, which OP said would prob not be allowed.

[ATHATH]

Have you considered changing your race to warforged?