Is it worth a multiclass dip for a spellcaster if you don’t expect to reach a really

[Klorox]

I’ve seen a lot of advice given that a wizard, for example, dip a level into a class that grants them better armor for more survivability.

I was thinking of a cool wizard idea that involved starting level 1 as a knowledge cleric and putting the rest into diviner wizard. This character gets more HP, a better AC (and you’ll never need to use a slot on mage armor), better saving throws, expertise in two good skills, many more spells and cantrips.

Now, if you look at a “final” build of level 1/19, it’s a no-brainer. But, how many games actually reach that level? If a campaign ends before reaching 9th level spells, is losing that one wizard level worth it?

[JNAProductions]

Depends what you're going for, honestly. In some cases? Yes. You're less powerful, but have more versatility (healing, better skills) and more survival power. In other cases? No. You lose out on raw power of higher level spells, and have to upcast spells for a level before getting appropriate ones.

[Naanomi]

There are benefits and drawbacks to both approaches... which is good; if there was a 'right' answer that would be boring. My inclination is no multiclassing, but good cases can be made for doing so. I suspect that specifics or how your table runs and your party makeup as a whole may determine what is best

[Zaioh]

Noone should consider the level 20 scenario when deciding to multiclass. What you should be asking yourself is this: Are you okay with being a level behind in your main class for the duration of the current campaign?

[Chugger]

When you hit lvl 5 and don't have fireball, you'll be hating yourself. That one lvl just to get some ac is - is it really worth that when you have ways to get out of combat?

Drac Sorc is ac 13 and with 16 dex is ac 16.

Mage Armor lasts 8 hrs and is not concentration - that and a good dex is also ac 16.

A high dex has other benefits. Or put the 16 in Con and go 14 dex, and have ac 15.

Or go bladesinger maybe.

[rigolgm]

I was thinking of a cool wizard idea that involved starting level 1 as a knowedge cleric and putting the rest into diviner wizard. This character gets more HP, a better AC (and you’ll never need to use a slot on mage armor), better saving throws, expertise in two good skills, many more spells and cantrips.

It sounds almost the same as the Gnome I've been playing, who started as a Cleric (Knowledge) of the goddess Mystra for my first level and then was an Wizard (Enchantment) in subsequent levels.

For me it worked great. Better armour, skills, cantrips etc. I even prefer how it means your saving throw proficiencies will be WIS and CHA - not WIS and INT.

However it did always put me one level behind other players on most upgrades (stat upgrades etc). Also, even though I lost nothing in spell slots, it did put me behind by one level regarding when I could start taking spells of a higher level.

If you're worried about losing the final 20th level ability, I'd say 1) it depends on your School of magic and 2) it's probably irrelevent, as hardly anyone makes it to level 20!

The level 20 Wizard ability (which is about level 3 spells) is good for Necromancers, Illusionists, Evokers etc because they are all closely associated with certain level 3 spells. For my Enchantment School gnome, no level 3 spells are especially relevant. So there was nothing holding me back from instead taking the first level in Cleric, which works great because the extra armour I can wear helps me maintain a Concentration spell and is useful to protect me when I'm using certain short-range Enchantment School abilities.

For your Divination School character, the Level 20 final Wizard ability could be used to allow you cast Clairvoyance and Tongues once/day without expending a spell slot and then, as a Diviner, you'd get two level 2 spells slots back for free out of that. (And of course, it'd also mean you'd permanently have those spells without needing to memorise them). Be aware that Clairvoyance still requires a paid-for material component. I suppose it's ok.

So in summary, I think a Wizard (Divination) can do nicely out of having their first level be as a Cleric (Knowledge). You should soon be at DEX14, find a few hundred gold to buy a breastplate, get a shield and be hulking around at Armour Class 18. Nice. You can use that shield while using your other hand to do all your Wizard spellcasting (the rules are specific that only one free hand is needed for components and gestures etc), while a Cleric's focus on your shield is also allowed in the rules and will help you with Cleric spells. I believe you might need an action, though, if you ever needed to put your wand/staff away to pick up a weapon (but that's rare, especially when you're likely to have a melee cantrip and a ranged cantrip).

As an aside, taking that first level in Cleric should usually mean you roleplay 'as a Cleric' a bit going forward. After all, even at high Wizard levels you'll have small Cleric abilities that your god(dess) is still giving you. It's up to you how you play that. I just personally feel that it'd probably be cynical if someone took a level in Cleric for the benefits and didn't bother to make it part of the personality of their PC.

[Citan]

I’ve seen a lot of advice given that a wizard, for example, dip a level into a class that grants them better armor for more survivability.

I was thinking of a cool wizard idea that involved starting level 1 as a knowledge cleric and putting the rest into diviner wizard. This character gets more HP, a better AC (and you’ll never need to use a slot on mage armor), better saving throws, expertise in two good skills, many more spells and cantrips.

Now, if you look at a “final” build of level 1/19, it’s a no-brainer. But, how many games actually reach that level? If a campaign ends before reaching 9th level spells, is losing that one wizard level worth it?
I'd argue that there can be no definitive question to your answer.

Let's say you make it and finally reach that char level 9, and end thinking "darn, I'm a bit frustrated in the end not having those 5th level spells".
Then the question is: how much did that Cleric level made as a difference?

Maybe you'll find that it didn't make any worthy difference because your party as a whole worked so well that you were never in real danger, nor did you really needed those extra skills and healing/buffs.
Or maybe all this way up to here, the decent AC allowed you to survive many sticky situations, or maybe in the end you spent half your time concentrating on Bless because nobody else had it, yet were thanked by your fellows for all those attacks that hit or saves that were passed thanks to that.

Rather that consider "is it worth in the end", when in doubt, better ask "what does it bring to me right now?"

If you really think that starting level is worthy to help on your own survival, or party survival, because you intend to use every bit of what it gives (armor proficiency, spells, expertise) then it's a great choice.
If you wanted it mainly for armor, there are better options (like, spending a slot on Mage Armor with decent DEX. Anyways, dip or not, you will want to stay afar from the fight). If you wanted it mainly for fluff, just take a religious-geared background.

[sithlordnergal]

Personally, I would say that it is worth it. I am playing a Fighter: 1 / Divination Wizard: 4. I currently lack 3rd level spell slots, but honestly I don't feel any weaker for it. Now, I will admit there were several situations during my last game where a Dispell Magic could have fixed everything in an instant, but we were able to find some cooler methods to fix the issues.

You will lose out on a little bit of Wizard magic, but I think you gain a lot more in exchange for it. Personally, I would say go for it.

[Klorox]

Thanks all. I’m gonna try it and see.

[Klorox]

When you hit lvl 5 and don't have fireball, you'll be hating yourself. That one lvl just to get some ac is - is it really worth that when you have ways to get out of combat?

Drac Sorc is ac 13 and with 16 dex is ac 16.

Mage Armor lasts 8 hrs and is not concentration - that and a good dex is also ac 16.

A high dex has other benefits. Or put the 16 in Con and go 14 dex, and have ac 15.

Or go bladesinger maybe.
Armor Class is not the only benefit this character gets from multiclassing.

[Kane0]

Sorcerers used to always be a level behind the other fullcasters, so I'm used to it actually. Except now I get some pretty cool stuff for being a level behind, and if its a level in another full caster I still get the slots for upcasting.

[Honest Tiefling]

I think it also depends on the party. Lacking those higher level spells is much more of an issue if you're the only Arcane spellcaster, or the only caster, period. I did a similar build (High elf knowledge cleric 1/diviner wizard 7) for a very brief time, but I felt like I still contributed.

I think if you really enjoy the flavor or the party needs a skill monkey, it's an excellent way to go. If you might be lacking in the meat shield department, it's a bit sturdier then a mage caught unaware. If you want raw spellcasting power and don't use skills much...Don't do it.

Unless going for a very particular build, I think multi-classing like this tends to satisfy those who want to dabble a bit or pursue two functions. Those who want to focus solely on spellcasting are going to be disappointed.

[Ogre Mage]

I am not sure if it is worth it for a wizard, since picking up mage armor is not a huge deal. But for a non-Draconic sorcerer I would definitely take the cleric level. Wasting one of your precious spells known on mage armor is horrible. The alternative is to try and survive with no armor mage or otherwise. And that is also deeply unattractive.

[sithlordnergal]

Just remember that with Mage Armor, you have 13+ your dex mod. So if you want an 18 AC, you need a 20 Dex and Mage Armor, or a 16 dex, mage armor, and a shield.

Compare that to one level of something that gives you Heavy Armor and now you don't need to worry about Dex. You can have a 14-16 Dex and be fine for your entire adventuring carrier.

[Renduaz]

If you're already intending to multiclass as a cleric, and don't mind the roleplaying too much, then take the most powerful combination the 18 Wizard/2 Trickery Cleric. Straight from the first level, you can "Invoke Duplicity" in open areas to effectively double the range of your spells by delivering them as if you were in the illusion's space, or in more crammed quarters you could keep it 5 feet near you to give you unavoidable advantage in attack rolls against all creatures within 5 feet of you that can see it. Which with your heavy armor and stuff as a Cleric, you are safe enough to do by going into melee with the various melee range cantrips/spells or even a weapon.

The best part though is that it will recharge with a short rest. Given that until mid-levels, you have pretty few slots even without multiclassing, and regardless if you're a level 10 Wizard, you can only recover 2 5th level slots for instance with a short rest. So this ability is definitely worth it.

Also, although it will only happen in level 15 rather than 13, when you have Forcecage, you can become Invincible (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?528162-The-Invincible-Caster-(-Invoke-Duplicity-Etherealness-Forcecage-Other-)) once every Long Rest. Pretty appealing.

"Blessing of the Trickster" will give you the ability to augment the stealth of the party's designated scout too. You get 3 spell slots, one to cast Shield of Faith ( +2 AC on top of everything else ) for 10 minutes with concentration, and "Sanctuary" is an excellent defense when needed. At mid-level, you'll probably be wanting to recast "Sanctuary" repeatedly during a fight while still making attacks, after expending your primary invincibility ability.

So I'd say it is very much worth the loss of a few spell slots.

[djreynolds]

I’ve seen a lot of advice given that a wizard, for example, dip a level into a class that grants them better armor for more survivability.

I was thinking of a cool wizard idea that involved starting level 1 as a knowledge cleric and putting the rest into diviner wizard. This character gets more HP, a better AC (and you’ll never need to use a slot on mage armor), better saving throws, expertise in two good skills, many more spells and cantrips.

Now, if you look at a “final” build of level 1/19, it’s a no-brainer. But, how many games actually reach that level? If a campaign ends before reaching 9th level spells, is losing that one wizard level worth it?

I really think it is party dependent and that is usually the key.

How often do you need to be in melee to take the "heat" off of melee party members?

For instance, I had a mountain dwarf abjurer, I use get into melee as our barbarian was getting his butt whooped and the ranger was off shooting arrows. I was there to provide another target

But some of the problem stemmed from character development of my wizard. I had no spells to target to individual enemy because they were resistant, demons, or drow with great dex saves or a very high AC.

So that's the issue sometimes, your firebolt or shocking grasp or ray of frost are ineffective. Your fireball is useless because your cleric and fighter are engaged in melee. You could grab sacred flame from cleric but your 13 wisdom means many passed saves.

So in one aspect, having a dependable melee ability is great but at the cost of casting stat and constitution possibly.

And that 1 level means you are behind 2 new wizard spells you might need. Like hypnotic pattern to deal with demons or a feat like elemental adept fire maybe to bypass resistance

Part of this is the game, "its dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door" (from the book not the movie) Demons and drow and giants, oh my. We had to fight a combo of all 3, awful

Part of it is wizards, especially lower level wizards, may have to "tank" so that ranger with the bow can handle business. Throw up the blur spell, spam the shield spell, and next round thrown on mirror image

Part of it is, you simply cannot have a spell for every occasion, and other party members have to cover down

A wizard can grab cleric whenever and get the armor proficiencies. And 1st level cleric spells are very good in terms of utility.

So my suggestion is to find a place during your leveling where you feel "hey I need this heavy or medium armor to survive" its organic and right here casting healing word would be better than scorching ray or magic missile.

Or where you feel you have at least something spell wise for every occasion and now you need something else

[Asmotherion]

1 Level dip into an other spellcasting class is only going to cost you to wait 1 level 'till you get access to new spell levels. It's a really low cost considering/depending on the benefits (in the case you describe, I think it's worth it).

2 Level Dips/1 level dips into non spellcasting classes start to be more Felt uppon, and if you aim for a Full-Time caster, you must make sure the benefits will make up for the loss of spellcasting progression; You definitelly don't do so lightly, as it effectivelly means your highest level spells avalable will be 1 level lower than they are supposed to be for a caster of your level, meaning when other casters will be throwing Fireballs/Counterspelling, you're still stuck to Scorching Rays/Silence, and when they will be Teleporting, you'll still need to cast a 10 minute spell to do that... Just including this for referance.

A 3rd level gives you a very slow spellcasting progression, and is only good on specific builds (For example Sorcerer-Warlock). It still criples your spellcasting progression on lower levels to the poing of making you something different than a true caster, more aking to a Half-Caster in reguards to spells Known/spells you can prepare, who just happens to be good at something else too. You will eventually catch up with other casters, but unless you take your 3rd level late game, you will have a considerable gap with other casters of your level.

Anything from a 4th level and above I don't consider a Dip but a full-time multiclass, and I won't include it in this analysis.

[Renduaz]

I'm currently doing some reading again and getting a bit confused. It's starting to appear to me as if the Wizard, and only the Wizard ( Due to his ability to copy spells "Found in the wild" to his spellbook as opposed to just learning them upon gaining a class level ) is not actually losing any spell levels, if multiclassing as a cleric, as long as he can find spellbooks/scrolls with the higher level spells and copy them. But you can just prepare less. Bringing up multiclassing rules:

>Spell Slots. You determine your available spell slots by adding together all your levels in the bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, and wizard classes

Which according to the chart is 4 level 1 slots and 2 level 2 slots at 3rd level, no different than a pure spellcaster.

>Spells Known and Prepared. If you are a ranger 4/wizard 3....As 3rd-level wizard, you know three wizard cantrips, and your spellbook contains ten wizard spells, two of which (the two you gained when you reached 3rd level as a wizard) can be 2nd-level spells. If your Intelligence is 16, you can prepare six wizard spells from your spellbook.

Rules on the Wizard's spellbook:

>Copying a Spell into the Book: When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your Spellbook if it is of a Spell Level you can prepare and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it.

So if I'm getting this straight, as a 2 Cleric/1 Wizard multiclass, going by the chart, our spell slots at level 3 are 4 ( level 1 ) and 2 ( level 2 ), same as a pure level 3 Wizard. but as a Level 1 Wizard Class, we only know two level 1 spells and three cantrips in our spellbook. But that's what our spellbook ALREADY contains, automatically, the ones we got for free just because of our level ( covered under the "Learning Spells of 1st Level and Higher" title of the Wizard ).

We could prepare a 2nd-level Wizard spell, if we *knew* one, but as a level 1 Wizard ( and 2 cleric ), we didn't get any 2nd level spells to know for free just from level progression. But if we find a 2nd level spell written in some other spellbook or scroll, it is of a Spell Level we can prepare, since we have level 2 slots, and therefore can add it to our spellbook.

But with an INT modifier of 3, the only "drawback" is that as a level 1 Wizard, you can only prepare 4, rather than 6.

I've gone over this multiple times and I can't find anything wrong with that realization, but maybe I'm missing something.

[Lombra]

I've seen this exact build in a game I'm playing (albeit starting wizard), I think that the player took cleric as his third or fifth level, we're now 8th level and he's always been useful and never felt behind in combat.

[Zalabim]

I've gone over this multiple times and I can't find anything wrong with that realization, but maybe I'm missing something.

Spells Known and Prepared comes before Spell Slots. You have to have skipped over this section then read the Spell Slots section, then not actually gone back to read the prior section in order to run into this problem. The rule is "You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class." It then helpfully provides examples, including the class in question, in case that wasn't quite clear. A level 1 wizard knows and prepares spells as if they're a level 1 wizard, and level 1 wizards can only prepare level 1 spells.

[Renduaz]

Spells Known and Prepared comes before Spell Slots. You have to have skipped over this section then read the Spell Slots section, then not actually gone back to read the prior section in order to run into this problem. The rule is "You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class." It then helpfully provides examples, including the class in question, in case that wasn't quite clear. A level 1 wizard knows and prepares spells as if they're a level 1 wizard, and level 1 wizards can only prepare level 1 spells.

In which page does it say that if you're a level 1 in a class ( I.E Wizard ), you can only prepare level 1 Wizard spells? I cannot find that. Page 201 of the PHB about Known and Prepared Spells tells you that "This process varies for different classes, as detailed in their description" and nothing else, so I jump to the Wizard in Page 114 with everything after "Spellcasting". The first thing to show is "Your Spellbook" which states that "When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a level for which you have spell slots and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it. "

As a 3rd level Cleric/Wizard Multiclasser, we have two 2nd level slots, so we can copy a 2nd level spell into our spellbook if we find it. Under "Preparing and Casting Spells" we have - " To do so, choose a number of wizard spells from your spellbook equal to your Intelligence modifier + your wizard level (minimum of one spell). The spells must he of a level for which you have spell slots. ".

Once again, nothing about what you said. Only that the spell we choose to prepare must be of a level for which we have spell slots, and we do have two 2nd level spell slots. Except that as a level 1 Wizard, we can only have 4 prepared rather than 6 for a pure 3rd level wizard. But if we found four different level 2 wizard spells in the game somewhere, then we can prepare 4 level 2 wizard spells and use our spell slots to cast them.

I mean, I see the rule about "As if you were a single-classed member of that class", but nothing about also "As if you were a level 1 caster"

Doing this step by step, according to the spell slot chart, we have 4 level 1 slots, and 2 level 2 slots. That's just because of our general level "As a multiclasser" caster hybrid of Cleric/Wizard. And we are told that we prepare spells as if we were "single-classed members of that class", but if a level 1 Wizard had two level 2 spell slots, he could prepare 2nd level spells. We can't pretend that we don't have any 2nd level slots, which the multiclassing rules just told us a second earlier is what happens if you're a Wizard and Cleric/ Wizard and Sorcerer and you're level 3.

Then it tells us that we know and prepare spells as if we were single-classed members, but not that we have the same slots as a single classed member. So we don't know any 2nd level spells, since a level 1 wizard wouldn't get them yet due to level progression. But if he were to somehow have 2-tier slots, then he could prepare level 2 spells, which as a level 3 multiclasser, we do have those slots as a fact. Do you understand what I'm saying?

Repeating myself a bit, but just for clarification and a short version, the Multiclasser Spell Slot Chart handles our Spell Slots, and that as a level 3 pure caster Multiclasser, we have access to 2nd tier spell slots. The sentence you quoted handles knowing and preparing spells, hence we only know 3 cantrips and 2 first level spells ( Since we did not gain any Wizard progression ), but the spell slots remain the same, and the "Wizard's" page in the PHB determines that you can prepare spells that you have spell slots for.

[djreynolds]

IMO begin wizard, and when you think you can grab a level of whatever cleric... maybe a second level "later on" for channel divinity once a short rest

I'm working on a tempest cleric/evocation wizard because it is cool. And I'm fine upcasting chromatic orb, I can live on that as my big damage until I finally grab lightning bolt

For a wizard because of the spellbook, it is easier to multiclass as you can still grab spells.

But for my party, when I grabbed haste at 5th level it was a game changer. I placed it on the ranger/rogue and they killed everything. Where as fireball sucked for us.

There is "laboratory" character making, and there is in-game character making. Perhaps you really need fireball or you can get by with an upcasted burning hands.

Live in the moment, play wizard, trust your gut and then grab cleric at whatever level you want, if you feel an upcasted spell is as good as that spell you are passing on

I don't really think intelligence is that bad of a save as compared to charisma, especially with all these mystic classes coming around

[Citan]

In which page does it say that if you're a level 1 in a class ( I.E Wizard ), you can only prepare level 1 Wizard spells? I cannot find that. Page 201 of the PHB about Known and Prepared Spells tells you that "This process varies for different classes, as detailed in their description" and nothing else, so I jump to the Wizard in Page 114 with everything after "Spellcasting". The first thing to show is "Your Spellbook" which states that "When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a level for which you have spell slots and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it. "

As a 3rd level Cleric/Wizard Multiclasser, we have two 2nd level slots, so we can copy a 2nd level spell into our spellbook if we find it. Under "Preparing and Casting Spells" we have - " To do so, choose a number of wizard spells from your spellbook equal to your Intelligence modifier + your wizard level (minimum of one spell). The spells must he of a level for which you have spell slots. ".

Don't try to open this can of worms, it's useless. I don't have time right now to look the official source for you (if at least the felt was needed for "official" errata), but anyways, just 5 seconds of thinking would normally be enough to understand why it's obviously not possible to understand it the way you present it.

Because otherwise, ONE SINGLE LEVEL of Wizard would be enough on any caster to potentially get all Wizard spells in addition to his own.
The magnitude of predation of such a thing would utterly break the game.

Besides, as with Warlock invocations, it's obviously implied to read the feature's rules in the context of the class.

That's some powerful powercreep mindset here, you should brush it off your brain before it sticks, or you may have problems in some games. ;)

[Mara]

Fighters 1 / Wizard 18/ Fighter 1 is worth it.

You get con save Prof, fullplate, shield prof, and defense style. (21 ac)

This allows you to pretty easily maintain concentration spells and still be a presence in combat

The one level can hurt, but you hurt a lot less being wrapped in steel. Action surge makes for a great capstone too.

[Renduaz]

Don't try to open this can of worms, it's useless. I don't have time right now to look the official source for you (if at least the felt was needed for "official" errata), but anyways, just 5 seconds of thinking would normally be enough to understand why it's obviously not possible to understand it the way you present it.

Because otherwise, ONE SINGLE LEVEL of Wizard would be enough on any caster to potentially get all Wizard spells in addition to his own.
The magnitude of predation of such a thing would utterly break the game.

Besides, as with Warlock invocations, it's obviously implied to read the feature's rules in the context of the class.

That's some powerful powercreep mindset here, you should brush it off your brain before it sticks, or you may have problems in some games. ;)

There seem to be a bunch of answers (https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/50424/can-a-multiclass-wizard-use-any-wizard-spell) here talking about that.

[Contrast]

In which page does it say that if you're a level 1 in a class ( I.E Wizard ), you can only prepare level 1 Wizard spells? I cannot find that. Page 201 of the PHB about Known and Prepared Spells tells you that "This process varies for different classes, as detailed in their description" and nothing else, so I jump to the Wizard in Page 114 with everything after "Spellcasting". The first thing to show is "Your Spellbook" which states that "When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a level for which you have spell slots and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it. "

I don't believe its ever explicitly states that when it says you prepare as a 'single classed member' this means 'as a character of that level' (mostly because that would be what those words are intended to mean I assume). Its implied though:


If you have more than one spellcasting class,
this table might give you spell slots of a level that is higher than the spells you know or can prepare. You can use these slots, but only to cast your lower-level spells.

FYI the errata says you can't scribe scrolls into your book unless you can prepare them which would be meaningless if there was no restriction on what spells you could prepare.

Sage Advice (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/09/19/multiclass-caster-spellbook/) if that matters to you.

[Asmotherion]

Don't try to open this can of worms, it's useless. I don't have time right now to look the official source for you (if at least the felt was needed for "official" errata), but anyways, just 5 seconds of thinking would normally be enough to understand why it's obviously not possible to understand it the way you present it.

Because otherwise, ONE SINGLE LEVEL of Wizard would be enough on any caster to potentially get all Wizard spells in addition to his own.
The magnitude of predation of such a thing would utterly break the game.

Besides, as with Warlock invocations, it's obviously implied to read the feature's rules in the context of the class.

That's some powerful powercreep mindset here, you should brush it off your brain before it sticks, or you may have problems in some games. ;)

I believe this depends on how the pleyer in question intends to use this, as well as how the current game is being ruled (RAW/RAI as opposed to RAF). I have allowed it in games of mine, (and deliberatelly ignoring RAW) because:

A) the Players asked me for those character consepts (An Ultimate Magus re-done in 5e).

B) It was not done with a mindset to re-play favorite character concepts, and not breaking the game.

Wile it is powerful, it is not as game-breaking as suggested. With an int mod of +3, the Dip can prepare a mere 4 wizard spells per day. He also can only have default access to 6 1st level Wizard spells, and anything beyond that is under DM control, rewarding a player with a high level wizard scroll for example after some good RP, or tearing a page in his spellbook if he feels a specific spell is being abused.

As long as you play with mature players who work with you for a cool and interesting story, there should be no problem. If you play with players who go against you just for the sake of breaking your game, well, then you have more problems at your table than just D&D imo.

[Foxhound438]

there are a lot of cases where lower level breaks look fine to me. A few examples

1) Paladin 6/ bard 1. The idea here is that you rush to the aura of protection, then grab one level of bard to get inspiration. It's not super powerful, but for a front line thing that wants to be more support than pure damage hose, it checks all of the boxes. 4 levels later you'd be pal 6/ bard 5 for short rest d8 inspiration and some neat 3rd level spells. You do lose improved divine smite at this point, which could be as much as a 50% damage boost, but at this point you're almost more support than damage, and that's fine. Honestly, take one more level of bard for lore's extra secrets and pick up spirit guardians, you make up for your damage and more. Past that I would probably go back to paladin levels.

2) monk 6/ ranger 3. Depending on your preferred type of monk, you might MC out at monk 5 instead, but the point is that you get hunter's mark to boost all of your many, many attacks, and then since you're already there grab one more level for colossus slayer, just for another pinch of damage. Continue taking levels in monk and at basically any level I would say you've made a worthwhile trade. Not necessarily a perfect one, like in times where you could have diamond soul, but you do still gain a lot in exchange for that.

3) ranger 5/ rogue x. Everyone knows the pace of good ranger features drops like a rock after extra attack, so take the rest of your levels in rogue.


Note all of those are going off of a martial character start, it's sometimes harder to justify losing a spell level for half of the game.

[Foxhound438]

I don't believe its ever explicitly states that when it says you prepare as a 'single classed member' this means 'as a character of that level' (mostly because that would be what those words are intended to mean I assume). Its implied though:



FYI the errata says you can't scribe scrolls into your book unless you can prepare them which would be meaningless if there was no restriction on what spells you could prepare.

Sage Advice (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/09/19/multiclass-caster-spellbook/) if that matters to you.


Spells Known and Prepared. You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class. If you are a ranger 4/wizard 3, for example, you know three 1st-level ranger spells based on your levels in the ranger class. As a 3rd level wizard, you know three wizard cantrips, and your spellbook contains ten wizard spells, two of which (the two you gainedd when you reached 3rd level as a wizard) can be 2nd-levelspells. If your intelligence is 16, you can prepare six wizard spells from your spellbook.

That seems pretty clear cut to me, you can't have wizard spells higher than the spells you would know as a level 1 wizard.

[Dalebert]

What you should be asking yourself is this: Are you okay with being a level behind in your main class for the duration of the current campaign?

This. You will feel the pain to some extent every time you level. I'm speaking from experience here from having done it many times.

That said, I've still done it many times. The trick is imagining you hadn't done it and reminding yourself what you'd lose and think about how often it's helped. It's easy to take certain things for granted once you've had them a while. My sorcerer 10 /bard 1 uses his first level bard spells constantly. Twinned Healing word or Tasha's Hideous Laughter is great. Heck, just having four extra spells known for a sorc who has so few is great.


Noone should consider the level 20 scenario when deciding to multiclass.

I sorta agree with this. It's true that many campaigns won't get to 20. I play AL games and you can always keep playing a character in other eligible games. I now have two level 20 characters, my first two characters made for AL, and I love them. I still play them when tier 4 games are available. I recently went to a lot of trouble to get a DM reward to rebuild one. His build worked great for leveling him up but was lackluster once he had some higher level abilities. Bear it in mind depending on the circumstance. If you play a lot and you play in AL, you absolutely can reach level 20.