Any suggestions for converting a bard from 4 to 5e?

[bonejelly]

To give a little background, we were running a campaign in 4 but are currently in the process of converting it over to 5e. The party composition is Rogue, Monk, Druid, Bard (me), and a Cleric (who will be joining the party some time in the next session or two). I was playing an Eladrin Cunning Bard. I wore chainmail armor (Eladrin, so it didn't slow me down) and basically picked up teleportation powers via the "Bard Taxi" concept with some melee viable powers in case I needed to offtank for the druid or rogue, and of course had many re-positioning powers (slides, pushes, etc) to get everyone into good positions and enable combat advantage. I am very excited to play 5e, and have been reading through the PHB and DMG pretty steadily along with reading various Bard Guides and posts for 5e.

I'd like to ask for any advice you could give on converting my character over to 5e. I see that Eladrin is a race in the PHB under creating your own races as a suggestion, but don't know if its worth it to pick up. Essentially, what I'd like to bring to the table is buffs/debuffs (I can see that Bardic Inspiration and the Vicious Mockery cantrip will help with advantage/disadvantage, along with maybe picking up Faerie Fire) but also keep some viability in melee since we do not have a tank. It is a strange character to move over into 5e, as even a Cunning Bard could take medium armor and a few melee-centric powers. I find myself in the position of seemingly choosing to lessen my spellcasting versatility to take some melee viability, or dropping the fightin' side and embracing the pure caster aspect of the class. I rolled my bard in 4 so that I could do a little of everything (buffing/debuffing, melee, ranged damage, healing). I am leaning towards the college of lore, as that seems the encompass more of my characters backstory, though he was written as being handy with a longsword (as an eladrin).

Could anyone offer some advice to help convert him? Does anyone have suggestions based on my party's composition? Any specific spell recommendations for a bard? I appreciate any responses, I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed by the broad range of information I've gotten from guides and posts, and hope to get a little perspective on my unique position. Thank you.

[Marcloure]

Bard of Valor has medium armor and martial weapons proficiency, and is a bit more fighting focused, but lore is just overall better. Or, you could dip 2 levels into Paladin, thus giving divine smite and proficiencies to a lore bard (pick Paladin at level 1).

[bonejelly]

Bard of Valor has medium armor and martial weapons proficiency, and is a bit more fighting focused, but lore is just overall better. Or, you could dip 2 levels into Paladin, thus giving divine smite and proficiencies to a lore bard (pick Paladin at level 1).

Thank you for the response! It seems like its a no-brainer to pick Valor, but I'm SO reluctant to go that direction for some reason. Lore seems to be the best translation of a Cunning Bard, but they allowed some melee abilities and medium armor as one. Dipping Paladin seems like a cool option. I think I may end up taking lots of control options and go Lore. I figure if I'm granting advantage to allies and imposing disadvantage or other conditions to enemies, we shouldn't be getting hit too often. Maybe that is better than healing or dealing damage? I don't know.

I'm also having a little bit of a tough time picking spells. Starting at level 6 (which is where we left off in the 4e part of the campaign) means I have quite a few spell choices. After reading through so many, it is incredibly difficult to choose! I seem to be a person who loves playing a versatile character, but being rather new to the game, I have a hard time making decisions when faced with the many options!

Out of curiosity, why would you say that lore is better overall? Is it just a waste of potential in adding the slight fighting focus to an otherwise good caster class?

[Jethro]

An alternative to the Valor Bard: Ask your DM if you can switch the level 3 proficiencies. Lore gets 3 skills, Valor Med Armor and Martial Weapons...just swap them.

[Throne12]

Ask your DM if you can get the magic item.

Elven Chain
Armor (chain shirt), rare

You gain a +1 bonus to AC while you wear this armor. You are considered proficient with this armor even if you lack proficiency with medium armor.

Then at lv4 pick up the feat magic Initiative warlock picking booming blade, eldritch blast and 1st level Hex

Then go lore bard.
Cantrips: Vicious mockery , minor illusion, mage hand, message

First level: healing word, faerie fire, Dissonant whispers.

Second level: enhance ability, heat metal, hold person.

Third level: fear, dispel magic, Hypnotic pattern.

At 6th level lore bard you get I think 2 spells from any class so I leave that up to your taste. But here are some spells I'll choose.
Slow, haste, counterspell, spike growth, Aid, arms of Hadar, bless, shield, thunderwave, any smite spell if want a bit more to melee.

[Honest Tiefling]

I'm also having a little bit of a tough time picking spells. Starting at level 6 (which is where we left off in the 4e part of the campaign) means I have quite a few spell choices. After reading through so many, it is incredibly difficult to choose! I seem to be a person who loves playing a versatile character, but being rather new to the game, I have a hard time making decisions when faced with the many options!

It takes a bit of understanding of the rules to pick out good spells to match your campaign, your party and your own preferences. It takes laziness cunning to read a guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?427508-Player-s-Gonna-Play-A-Bard-s-Guide)on the subject and adjust accordingly.

Also, what race of elf are you? Eladrin aren't in the PHB, but in the DMG. Make sure it's on the table. The race does come with free profieincy in the longsword and a 1/short rest misty step spell, which might help the concept a bit. However, to use a longsword properly, you will need strength, not dexterity which the elf race grants.

I will also suggest a Lore Bard/Paladin multiclass. Be aware of the multiclass requirements, but many DMs allow Dexterity to be used in place of Strength for the Paladin, because that was a rather stupid design choice. (Unless it was to stop Bard/Warlock/Sorcerer mutliclasses, which...Doesn't work?). Ask your DM about retooling the Paladin to suit your bard. The default paladin doesn't even need a god, but we don't know what campaign setting your DM wants.

Also, ask about UA material. The College of Swords might be a really easy way to make your character, but not all DMs allow UA material.

[Aymon]

Lots of possibilities, tell us what stats you have, and what material you can use (scag?, Us?)

[Potato_Priest]

Lots of possibilities, tell us what stats you have, and what material you can use (scag?, Us?)

Just in case you're not familiar with the 5e shorthand, these stand for Sword Coast Adventurer's guide (a 5e splatbook) and (assuming that was supposed to be UA ) Unearthed Arcana (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles-tags/unearthed-arcana) (online homebrew options made by the devs)

[MrStabby]

So lore bard vs valor bard isn't a simple check of who is best. A lot depends on the campaign.

Valor bard can sit back with a bow as a fairly effective ranged option or get stuck in with a halberd. Use of a weapon + a feat (sharpshooter, polearm mastery, great weapon fighting) can keep you able to deal great damage whilst conserving spell slots.

Lore bard tends to spend a lot more time at the extreme ends of the scale - either doing very little as not willing or unable to spend spell slots (at least at low level)or, they have just the right spell and blow the encounter away.

Which one is "better" depends on your DM and how long you tend to go between rests.

Personally I prefer the lore bard but from a DMing perspective it is more often the Valor bard that saves the party's ass. Having a few spell slots left when everyone else is bled dry has been great for the party. Likewise when faced with magic resistant enemies having a martial weapon is a real boost.

[bonejelly]

An alternative to the Valor Bard: Ask your DM if you can switch the level 3 proficiencies. Lore gets 3 skills, Valor Med Armor and Martial Weapons...just swap them.

...
That is a great suggestion. Not only does it solve a chunk of my problem, it's so simple I can't imagine him refusing the request. Thank you for the input!

[bonejelly]

Ask your DM if you can get the magic item.

Elven Chain
Armor (chain shirt), rare

You gain a +1 bonus to AC while you wear this armor. You are considered proficient with this armor even if you lack proficiency with medium armor.

Then at lv4 pick up the feat magic Initiative warlock picking booming blade, eldritch blast and 1st level Hex

Then go lore bard.
Cantrips: Vicious mockery , minor illusion, mage hand, message

First level: healing word, faerie fire, Dissonant whispers.

Second level: enhance ability, heat metal, hold person.

Third level: fear, dispel magic, Hypnotic pattern.

At 6th level lore bard you get I think 2 spells from any class so I leave that up to your taste. But here are some spells I'll choose.
Slow, haste, counterspell, spike growth, Aid, arms of Hadar, bless, shield, thunderwave, any smite spell if want a bit more to melee.


Thank you for the suggestions! Thank you for pointing out Elven Chain, that looks great. I was using Eladrin Chainmail in 4e, this looks comparable thematically. I was REALLY considering dipping into warlock, it just looks too fun not to. I'm wondering if Eldritch Blast is worth it if I cannot get Agonizing Blast, however. Also, is booming blade superior to Greenflame Blade? I like the idea of doing the damage when they move, but I feel like the way my DM runs our combat, the mobs would simply not move after I hit them. Which I guess is a good thing as well, now that I think about it.

I also wanted to grab Faerie Fire, but our druid is going to take it. I doubt it is good enough for both of us to take, so I am thinking Hideous Laughter. The other picks for spells look very similar to what I'm leaning towards as well, though the Druid nabbed Healing Word, so I may take Cure Wounds.

Level Two spells are a TOUGH decision set for me. I'm leaning Suggestion, Silence, and then Phantasmal Force. I really want Enhance Ability, since I like buffing. I also love the idea of heat metal against armored foes, though so far in this campaign we haven't faced many humanoid enemies. This is also the reason I dismissed Hold Person, even though it also looks great.

Third level, definitely Hypnotic Pattern. That just looks too cool and I like the concept of being a trickster/illusionist. Dispel Magic is also a definite grab, along with Counterspell when I can get it, I intend to be the bane of casters. The only thing that could rival Fear for me would be Major Image, as I tend to try and find creative ways out of combat situations and I think Major Image could be fun to play with. Admittedly, I haven't read too far into Major Image.

Thanks again for the input!

[bonejelly]

It takes a bit of understanding of the rules to pick out good spells to match your campaign, your party and your own preferences. It takes laziness cunning to read a guide on the subject and adjust accordingly.

Also, what race of elf are you? Eladrin aren't in the PHB, but in the DMG. Make sure it's on the table. The race does come with free profieincy in the longsword and a 1/short rest misty step spell, which might help the concept a bit. However, to use a longsword properly, you will need strength, not dexterity which the elf race grants.

I will also suggest a Lore Bard/Paladin multiclass. Be aware of the multiclass requirements, but many DMs allow Dexterity to be used in place of Strength for the Paladin, because that was a rather stupid design choice. (Unless it was to stop Bard/Warlock/Sorcerer mutliclasses, which...Doesn't work?). Ask your DM about retooling the Paladin to suit your bard. The default paladin doesn't even need a god, but we don't know what campaign setting your DM wants.

Also, ask about UA material. The College of Swords might be a really easy way to make your character, but not all DMs allow UA material.

I love the guides that have been made for the Bard, they've been great to have. The one you linked is the first one I found. Though they've made some decisions more difficult for me, and given me much to consider, they've also simplified things in a way by pointing out what NOT to pick up.

I am going with Eladrin, the DM has cleared it. I may end up just using a Rapier since I don't want to deal with too much MAD in this new edition. I'll look into the paladin multiclassing and The College of Swords materials. Our DM is being rather lenient about supplementary materials to make our characters work since we are converting from 4e. Thanks for the suggestions!

[bonejelly]

Lots of possibilities, tell us what stats you have, and what material you can use (scag?, Us?)


My stats in 4e are/were:

STR 8
CON 12
DEX 12
INT 19
WIS 10
CHA 19

Most of the materials are on the table. If it is SCAG or UA, that's a 99% pass. Middle Finger of Vecna and other fan-made homebrew stuff is subject to approval and on a case-by-case basis.

[bonejelly]

So lore bard vs valor bard isn't a simple check of who is best. A lot depends on the campaign.

Valor bard can sit back with a bow as a fairly effective ranged option or get stuck in with a halberd. Use of a weapon + a feat (sharpshooter, polearm mastery, great weapon fighting) can keep you able to deal great damage whilst conserving spell slots.

Lore bard tends to spend a lot more time at the extreme ends of the scale - either doing very little as not willing or unable to spend spell slots (at least at low level)or, they have just the right spell and blow the encounter away.

Which one is "better" depends on your DM and how long you tend to go between rests.

Personally I prefer the lore bard but from a DMing perspective it is more often the Valor bard that saves the party's ass. Having a few spell slots left when everyone else is bled dry has been great for the party. Likewise when faced with magic resistant enemies having a martial weapon is a real boost.

I'm essentially trying to play the way you described the Valor Bard, by laying back and casting when necessary. Even in 4e, I tried at every opportunity to find a way to avoid combat, or end it quickly by using the environment or some other situational combat out. As a Lore Bard I feel I'd be better equipped in dealing with OOC situations, I'd just like to add just a little combat competence so I can plink things on turns I don't want to burn slots. Looking into the Bard's damage options, I see Swift Quiver come up a lot, but without the ability to cast and attack like the valor bard, or take two attacks, I don't see it working for this character. It also requires spell slots to work. The combat cantrips seem to be the way to go, via Greenflame/Booming Blade, or perhaps a dip into warlock for Eldritch Blast. I've read that Eldritch blast isn't much without Hex or Agonizing Blast, however. Hex does look interesting and it seems like it would work well with vicious mockery and other buffing/debuffing spells I like to use!

[D.U.P.A.]

"Bard Taxi"

So you're playing a - Tabardaxi.

BADUM TSSS.
(couldn't resist :D)

It is already a while since I played 4e, but as I remember classes with at least secondary Int or Dex usually wore light armor, since AC was calculated using one of those two stats. Heavy armor was more designed for buildings based on Con secondary. Your character wore it for flavor reasons?

Do you still remember which powers your Bard had (if you still have character sheet)?

[LtPowers]

...
That is a great suggestion. Not only does it solve a chunk of my problem, it's so simple I can't imagine him refusing the request. Thank you for the input!

Yeah, it sounds great because it's unbalanced. Subclass features are not interchangeable. 3 skill proficiencies is worth very little, especially to a bard with Jack of All Trades. Martial weapon proficiency and armor proficiency are worth much more. It's not an even trade. It makes Lore Bard much much more powerful.

A note on race: Eladrin in 4e are High Elves in all other editions. Don't try to use the Eladrin variant in 5e; that's a more celestial type of elf than the Eladrin in 4e.


Powers &8^]

[WickerNipple]

It is already a while since I played 4e, but as I remember classes with at least secondary Int or Dex usually wore light armor, since AC was calculated using one of those two stats. Heavy armor was more designed for buildings based on Con secondary. Your character wore it for flavor reasons?

There was an eladrin or elven variety of chain that counted as light armor. I think that's what OP is talking about.