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giblina
2007-08-16, 11:03 AM
Several of the Field Officer (d20 future advanced class) abilities can boost the abilities of allies by his reputation bonus.

Is it safe for me to assume that they mean specifically only the +1 to +4 you get from being a field officer (and not the tons of rep you might have from charismatic hero / feats / occupation prior to entering field officer)?

Otherwise it would seem way overpowered.

Matthew
2007-08-16, 11:25 AM
Hmmn. Not sure. I suspect it is your full Reputation Bonus. I recommend that you put a cap on it if you feel it is too high.

giblina
2007-08-16, 11:50 AM
It would be ridiculous high if I used total rep bonus. Like he could just stand there shouting orders every round and the whole party gains like +20 bonus on all attack rolls (which seems way over the top).

If I use only the rep bonus from the advanced class then it drops down to like +1 to +9 bonus (depending on how how many field officer levels and how high his base charisma score) which seems much more reasonable.

Matthew
2007-08-16, 11:55 AM
Don't get me wrong, it's unbalanced, but it looks RAW to me. This Class looks like you need to be Level 6 to get into because of the Skill requirements.

SpikeFightwicky
2007-08-16, 12:17 PM
Requirements
To qualify to become a Field Officer, a character must fulfill the following criteria.

Base Attack Bonus: +2

Skills: Diplomacy 6 ranks, Knowledge (tactics) 6 ranks.

Feats: Personal Firearms Proficiency.


It looks like a Strong Hero 1/Charismatic Hero 2 can get in at level 4.

With this, at 13th level (to max out his FO levels), with the right feats/occupation, you get: +1 (Occupation) +2 (Cha Hero 2) +3 (Renown feat) +4 (Field Officer 10) = +10 (+11 if you stuck with 4 levels of Cha. Hero).

It does seem like a big boost, but keep in mind:
- The FO cannot use the ability on himself, he remains a vulnerable target unless protected properly.
- The bonus to attack or defense is a full-round action, so the FO basically contributes through other people, and stops direct contribution. This may or may not be a good thing depending on the situation.

I'd have to see it in action to get a better idea of how the ability would interact...

Matthew
2007-08-16, 12:29 PM
Okay, so we're looking at

Charismatic Hero 1: Diplomacy 4,
Strong Hero 1: Knowledge (Tactics) 4,
Charismatic Hero 2: Diplomacy 6, Knowledge (Tactics) 6,
Field Officer 1-10:

I would probably still seek to cap it.

giblina
2007-08-16, 12:35 PM
Field officer gets into cover so he's safe. Also at level 7 it can be used as an attack action instead of full round so he can move around while doing it.

The bonus provided is high enough that other party members can reliably use poor-aim / high-damage attacks like burst (-4 hit, +2 dice of damage) and still hit very well.

The damage taken when you get hit by those bursts is so high that NPCs get their massive damage threshold's tripped left and right and need to start making fort saves or die. Average damage on a beretta burst is like 14 points (and on assault rifles it's like 22 dmg avg per shot). A character's MDT is their con score (unless they burn some feats to improve it), and most NPCs have con scores below these numbers.

Using only the field officer's base-class rep bonus is enough (because your charisma bonus will stack on top of that) to provide a nice bonus (a character with 20 cha and 10 levels of field officer would grant a +9 attack bonus, which is still damn nice.

If you use all rep bonuses combined that bonus gets so high (like +20) that iterative bursts from characters with multi-weapon fighting and/or multiple attacks per round start hitting reliably as well and fights start ending in one round even when your party is just using handguns.

FO is like bard on steroids :)

Jasdoif
2007-08-16, 12:39 PM
Just so everyone's on the same page, here's all the class features....

Leadership
By providing supervision and guidance, a Field Officer can improve an ally’s chances of succeeding at a skill check. Instead of making a skill check to aid another, the Field Officer makes a Diplomacy check (DC 10). He cannot take 10 or take 20 on the check. Success grants a competence bonus on the ally’s skill check equal to the Field Officer’s Charisma bonus or Reputation bonus, whichever is greater. The ally must be within sight and hearing distance of the Field Officer and must be able to understand him.

A Field Officer cannot use this ability on himself.

Uncanny Survival
Beginning at 2nd level, a Field Officer can add one-half his class level to his Defense for 1 round, once per day. (The bonus applies to the Field Officer’s touch and flat-footed Defense, as well.) He must declare he is doing this at the beginning of his turn, and the Defense bonus lasts until his next round of actions.

Bonus Feats
At 3rd, 6th, and 9th level, the Field Officer gets a bonus feat. The bonus feat must be selected from the following list, and the Field Officer must meet all the prerequisites of the feat to select it.

Advanced Firearms Proficiency, Armor Proficiency (light), Armor Proficiency (medium), Armor Proficiency (heavy), Armor Proficiency (powered), Combat Expertise, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Mobility, Precise Shot, Quick Draw, Renown, Shot on the Run.

Tactical Expertise
Starting at 4th level, as a full-round action, a Field Officer can use his tactical knowledge to coordinate allies. Allies to be affected must be within sight and hearing distance of the Field Officer and must be able to understand him.

The Field Officer must make a Knowledge (tactics) check with a DC equal to 15 + the number of allies affected. He cannot take 10 or take 20 on the check. If the check succeeds, all affected allies gain a competence bonus on attack rolls or a dodge bonus to Defense equal to the Field Officer’s Reputation bonus. The Field Officer chooses which of the two benefits to impart and must impart the same benefit to all affected allies. The benefits last for 1 round.

If the check fails, the Field Officer’s allies gain no benefit, but the action is still spent.

A Field Officer cannot apply the benefits of this ability to himself.

August Leadership
The Field Officer gains this ability at 5th level. It works like the leadership ability (see above), except the Field Officer adds his Charisma bonus and his Reputation bonus to the ally’s skill check.

Tactical Mastery
At 7th level, the Field Officer requires less time to direct his allies. This ability is similar to tactical expertise (see Tactical Expertise, above) but requires an attack action instead of a full-round action.

Commanding Presence
At 8th level and beyond, a Field Officer can use an attack action and his commanding presence to enable an ally or weaken a single foe’s resolve.

Enabling an ally requires an attack action and a successful Diplomacy check (DC 20). If the check succeeds, the Field Officer can negate any one of the following harmful conditions affecting a single ally: cowering, dazed, fatigued, nauseated, panicked, shaken, or stunned. The ally to be affected must be within sight and hearing distance of the Field Officer and must be able to understand him.

The Field Officer cannot use this ability on himself.

Weakening a foe’s resolve requires an attack action and a successful Intimidate check (DC = target’s level check) . If the check succeeds, the target is shaken for a number of rounds equal to 1d6 + one-half the Field Officer’s class level + the Field Officer’s Charisma modifier. The target must be within sight and hearing distance of the Field Officer and must be able to understand him. A target that resists the Field Officer’s attempt to weaken its resolve is immune to the Field Officer’s use of this ability for 24 hours.

Action Trust
At 10th level, the Field Officer’s mere presence inspires, safeguards, and motivates his allies.

As a free action, a Field Officer may spend one of his action points to modify an ally’s attack roll, skill check, ability check, level check, or saving throw result by +2d6 (applying a bonus of +2 to +12).

The ally to be affected must be within sight and hearing distance of the Field Officer to gain the benefits of the Field Officer’s spent action point. A Field Officer may use this ability once per round, and not on himself (he gains the normal benefits for spending an action point on himself).

Any character may transfer some or all of her action points to the Field Officer as a free action. The Field Officer must consent to the transfer, and these action points become the Field Officer’s to spend as he sees fit.

The requirement for sight and hearing would tend to leave the officer in harm's way, which can be a bad thing. I'm not sure a big bonus is entirely inappropriate.

If you're looking for a cap, though, I'd cap the reputation bonus at the character's Field Officer level.

Matthew
2007-08-16, 12:40 PM
Ehy? Why are you stacking his Reputation Bonus with his Charisma Bonus?

giblina
2007-08-16, 01:24 PM
I was mis-applying it. The stacking of the two pertains only to the skill bonus granted by leadership ability (which grants a skill bonus to a single character).

If it's rep bonus only, that's not as bad. A level 5 charismatic hero can already boost people's attacks and damage both by 3 points which is pretty significant and charismatic is only a basic class.

I do like the idea of capping it by FO level to prevent it from going into outer space.

Tokiko Mima
2007-08-16, 01:30 PM
Competence bonuses from Leadership and Tactical Expertise wouldn't stack. You can only use Leadership on skill checks, anyway. TE applies only to attack and defense, not skill checks. It also takes a standard (or full-round) action to use either ability, and the effect lasts only one round, so you'd never be able to use both at the same time.

That said, I think you're right. If you used your entire reputation bonus to TE you'd quickly have a team that never missed or couldn't be hit depending on what you chose. Using just the Rep Bonus from Field officer makes more sense.

giblina
2007-08-16, 01:57 PM
Why hello Miss Nai :)

If I only use the raw unadjusted rep bonus from Field officer, then the overall bonus is smaller than what's granted by charismatic hero (the preferred base class for field officer).

Charismatic hero with greater inspiration can grant allies a +3 bonus to attacks and damage bonus both.

FO tactical abilities increase attack bonus only, not damage. So I'd prefer to see something where FO is at least offering a higher bonus than charismatic hero.

Considering the scaling of defense and attack, I agree though that +10 bonus is too high. It's enough of an add-on bonus to guarantee all first-attacks to hit.

I'll have to think on it some. I want something better that improves upon charismatic hero's greater inspiration ability, but not as overpowered as RAW provides with this ability.

Hmmm

Tokiko Mima
2007-08-16, 02:07 PM
Hi Syll! :smallwink:

How about a simple mechanic of 1/2 your total level? It does get you to +10 at level 20, but it should be that high to be useful at that point.

giblina
2007-08-16, 02:24 PM
A +10 attack bonus for the whole party is just too high regardless of level.

What I think I'm going to do is just change Tactical Expertise / Mastery such that they function almost identically to coordination / inspiration / greater inspiration and will stack with them (so a 7th level field officer with all 3 charismatic hero talents can provide +5 hit/dmg). That's the same bonus provided by a d20 level 20 bard. Because the inspiration line has a duration that also frees up the field officer to take actions of his own on most rounds provided he has a decent cha bonus.

A field officer w/o the charismatic hero talents will only be able to grant +2 attack/damage, but field officer has best base attack progression already so that should be sufficient.

On the defensive side of the same ability, I'll have the ability grant +1/+2 defense and also +1/+2 saving throws (so there's still a defensive option that's worthwhile to use but not sick overpowered).

Matthew
2007-08-16, 04:30 PM
Alternatively, consider only allowing the Charisma Bonus to apply.

giblina
2007-08-16, 06:08 PM
With only cha bonus, it would be inferior to the inspiration talent series offered by charismatic hero base class.

+3 hit / +3 dmg with a 4 round duration > +4 hit +0 dmg with no duration.

Matthew
2007-08-16, 06:26 PM
How about only Bonuses derived from Classes?

giblina
2007-08-16, 06:56 PM
It'll end up too high again. +9 attack bonus on top of everything else is too high.

+5 is very nice and very effective so I'm happy w/ the tweaking I did to it (noting of course that it's a house-rule solution and not RAW).

Matthew
2007-08-16, 07:00 PM
Fair enough. Bear in mind that the 3e Bard is widely considered a 'weak ' Class, though.

giblina
2007-08-16, 07:34 PM
Field officer has best base attack progression (compared to bard's medium), 1d8 hit points (compared to bard's 1d6).

Besides which, anyone who considers bard a weak class isn't playing it right. In a group with a few melee characters, a bard is an instrument of mass death.