The Arcane Programmer Guide ( Official Rules Technique )

[Kemptock]

Disclaimer: If one does not find it fascinating to read walls of text in the name of Science & Magic, they should turn back now while it is still possible!

Introduction to Magic Mouth Plus

So, "The Arcane Programmer", is it some kind of new homebrew class corresponding to UA's futuristic options, or what? No, it's just an informed use of a very low-level spell or two! Because the best freedom is to be able to do something at any campaign, at any time. As an added bonus, this will also take what is often seen as one of the more useless or extremely circumstantial flavor spells due to it's wording, you guessed it - "Magic Mouth", and turn it into something almost indispensable in every caster's arsenal, something that allows for creative choice, something that probably nobody ever thought it could be. In fact, this doesn't just pertain to your character. It also pertains to your party, and especially to your DM, since it has the potential of changing the campaign world, by ushering a mini digital/communications revolution.

As the title implies, we're going to be doing some "programming", in DND. Before getting to that though, let's review what's going to be relevant for us within the spell description's in full, to reference in the upcoming chapters. In fact before beginning to read this, it is advisable that you open up the spell's description, and slowly go over every word. But I'll highlight what's most important, along with some commentary ( If you're confident that every single word is crystal clear to you, skip ahead over this, but keep in mind that later on, you'll need to know precisely what the RAW are and how they work to avoid unnecessary questions ):

* "You implant a message within an object in range, a message that is uttered when a trigger condition is met. Choose an object that you can see and that isn't being worn or carried by another creature."

Magic Mouth is one of those spells, much like Arcane Lock or Continual Flame, which do not have neither an upper or lower size, weight, length, even type ( magical or non-magical ) restrictions, unlike a branch of other object spells which do have them. The choice is yours. But we won't be working with anything magical, what's important here is the absence of size or length limitations.

* "Then speak the message, which must be 25 words or less, though it can be delivered over as long as 10 minutes."

Alright, so you can speak a message ( "a verbal, written, or recorded communication" ) which can be absolutely anything at all much like talking into a microphone, with the only stipulation, that it cannot be something which has more than 25 words. Good to know. The latter part may also be relevant depending on how you use certain things later.

* "Finally, determine the circumstance that will trigger the spell to deliver your message.....The triggering circumstance can be as general or as detailed as you like, though it must be based on visual or audible conditions that occur within 30 feet of the object."

The circumstance we set can be as general or as detailed as we'd like, but needs to be based on "visual or audible conditions that occur within 30 feet of the object". Note, that as per this wording, there are no limitations on said visual or audible conditions. The circumstance is absolutely anything you want, as long as it is an audible or visual condition that occurs within range. The audio can be of any volume, the visual trigger can be blatant or subtle. The enchanted object has no eyes or ears, or some "perception score" aside from RAW says. That as long as the circumstance is a visual or audible condition that occurs within it's range, as detailed or as general as you wanted it to be, the trigger will activate.

Keep all of this very much in mind. Triggering circumstance, as detailed or general as you'd like. Based on any audible or visual condition that occurs within 30 feet of the magical object.

* "When that circumstance occurs, a magical mouth appears on the object and recites the message in your voice and at the same volume you spoke."

Nothing further to add about this part.

* "Duration: Until Dispelled"

All enchanted objects are enchanted permanently, until dispelled.

* "Ritual Tag"

This spell can also be cast as a ritual over 10 minutes, so as not to expend a spell slot.

* "When you cast this spell, you can have the spell end after it delivers its message, or it can remain and repeat its message whenever the trigger occurs"

Finally, we'll close this little practice and move on to the fun stuff with the absolutely most important part of the spell that is the key to everything that comes next. Instead of choosing to end the spell after it delivered it's message, it can remain and repeat it whenever the trigger we have set occurs. The only thing left is the part about a mouth moving if an object has something that resembles a mouth, but that's totally irrelevant for our purposes. Also, each casting consumes 10gp, so creating components for our programming will not be free just like in real life, but nothing too grand ( At least, not until you expand beyond this guide )

Hello World

Great, we know everything we need to about the spell description, now to implement it practically. Much as in real coding, in order to save us all time, we'll first go over the basics, how to translate the spell usage itself into certain components that will be labelled with various terms, and when it comes to more advanced subjects, instead of going over the entire process repeatedly, we'll just refer back to the basic functions, with each development deriving from the other. So let's take a look at what we can create with Magic Mouth, starting really simple:

1. Take three stones, or any three objects you can find. Cast Magic Mouth on all. Set the first one to trigger upon the audible trigger of you saying "Execute", and input the message "Hello World". An then for the spell to end. Take the second one, and place it 30 feet ( or 28, to be sure ) away from the first object. Set it trigger upon the audible circumstance of hearing "Hello World" ( In your voice, if you wish ) and input it with the message "Hello World". Take the third and final stone, place it 30 ( or like 28 ) feet away from the second one, set it's circumstance to trigger upon an audible "Hello World" within 30 feet, and set it's message to "Message Received". Upon speaking - "Execute" near the first stone, and you realize by now that two things happened here. First, we have used one Magic Mouth object to trigger another, with a Transmitter and a Receiver which is the basis of Magic Mouth Plus, and secondly, we activated a recorded message from 60 feet away ( And can go on forever as long as you have 10gp for each 30 feet ), by using a series of objects placed at intervals from each other. This will be called a Relay. ( There are much more efficient objects to use as relays, but that will be the next chapter )

2. Let's try something else. Instead of setting the circumstance of the first stone to activate on "Execute", send "Hello World", and then end the spell, let's go somewhere outside, maybe a forest, and set the trigger ( And recall what we've read about detailed circumstances and an enchantment's visual and audible conditions ) to "Whenever grass stalks are moving" ( Which is pretty much always, regardless of intensity ). Or to whenever the sound of the wind is present ( Which is also always essentially, even at the lowest volume imaginable ) or pretty much any trigger which is an "audible or visual condition" that occurs within 30 feet constantly. Then adjust the settings to repeat the message whenever it's specified trigger occurs. Set the following two stones to do the same, except for their audible circumstance to be "Hello World". What happens now is that the first stone will utter "Hello World" one after the other as soon as the last one is finished, being perpetually triggered, and likewise the third stone is constantly going to receive input from it's second stone relay and utter "Message Received" perpetually. This is a Repeater.

3. But why use stones when it's so unsightly? We can enchant any object. Let's exchange our stones for pebbles, or even tiny grains of matter, though preferably of the durable variety such as stone or metal. These are our Microchips, and will prove useful in more advanced projects.

4. While we're at the task of tidying up our tools, what if we don't want to hear a thousand "Hello World"'s in the 60 feet interval from our repeater, we just want to say "Execute", and for the third stone to then utter "Message Received"? Instead of putting the message "Hello World" into the first and second stones, we'll just whisper, in the lowest sound imaginable ( Yet perfectly registered by the enchantment ), something like "Tiskk" for a brief second. We'll then change the second stone's trigger to be that specific audible sound, instead of "Hello World", and likewise for the third stone. What's that? It now almost seems to all observers that things are going straight from you speaking "Execute" to the third stone answering "Message Received", with silence between. We'll call this a Frequency, which you can create pretty much an astronomical variety of with your voice. ( And since it's mostly used for the relays, you hardly need to remember or ever repeat it, since the transmitter translates voice to frequency, and the receiver translates frequency back to voice ). Though if you ever feel like it, you can always use "Alter Self" ( Transmutation, not Illusion ) to decide the sound of your voice, which by RAW of the spell is entirely up to you decide, but at the very least it's that of any race matching your size ( Aarakocra, Gnoll, etc.. if you're medium )

5. Now, how about two messages instead of one? Unfortunately, we can't get two different messages from the same place, since an enchanted object only records and then verbalizes a single message. ( Or can we now? More on that later ), so we already know how to do so. We just create another transmitter/receiver set with 3 stones ( For our 60 feet communications range ) and place them next to the ones we already have each, with a different frequency for the relays and an input such as "Do you like Icecream" from the transmitter, which causes the third stone receiver to emit "Yes". Alright, cool, we can now say two things from the same place and receive two different answers depending on the audible stimuli we chose, but that should be obvious by now. However, as we assemble more and more Microchips for elaborate constructs, keeping them scattered like this will make it inconvenient and really hard to trace. So we're going to take our now 6 tiny pebble/grain chips, and put each pair ( At the 30 feet intervals ) into some kind of small, but easily accessible ( Or not, depending, more on that later ) capsule or box, which can be pretty much any tiny container you can think of. This helps keep our components tidy, and allows us to create elaborate algorithms made form multiple Microchips that inhabit a single capsule container. Sometimes if needed we can even enchant the containers themselves to do stuff based on the input from the components inside them. But we're just going to call those, simply, Containers.

6. Let's go back to just 3 stones in a row, but set the trigger of each to be the audible circumstance of hearing "Feedback" within 30 feet, and the message to likewise be "Feedback" for all of them when triggered, and then determine that they repeat the message whenever the trigger occurs. So you say "Feedback", it reverberates all the way to the third stone. Yet when the second stone finished it's message of "Feedback" which then activated the third stone, which then recites "Feedback", the second stone just triggered once again, which triggers the first stone to say the same thing when it's finished, which creates an endless feedback loop. Which is different from our repeat which relies on ambient conditions to deliver something repeatedly to the receiver ( third stone ), yet in which the message of that third stone simply emits repeatedly, not affecting the second stone which just repeats it's frequency based on ambient. Instead, this is a Feedback Loop.

7. We're almost done now with the practical principles and ready to move on to things that will actually augment our gaming experience, but it should just be noted that there are many more functions you can make by build upon those basic steps, which won't really be covered here since they're almost as varied as actual coding. For instance, you could create Logic Gates, by say, setting a relay's audible circumstance to only be the particular duet of two repeating relay frequencies at once, in which case it sends out an audible "True Signal" as it's message, and another relay right next to it in a capsule whose audible trigger is something ambient, unless the True Signal is active ( a detailed circumstance ), in which case it sends out it's "False" audio transmission repeatedly until such time as the first one is activated by two frequencies, making that capsule essentially an "AND" Gate. You can do tons of things like this in different ways to suit you purposes.

Advanced Systems

Okay, now that we're off from explaining the spell directly, to using the terms learned so far, let's see what kind of gadgets we can make, which can be used not just by us, but by everyone, and even sold as inventions.

The Earpiece

This is actually not an advanced system, but rather even more simple than all of the above, yet occupies this section since it ties into many of the advanced systems, and has a practical in-game use. We've talked about how the spell has "unlimited perception", since it is a magical enchantment, much like "Detect Magic" ( An effect ) or "Symbol" and so on. As long as something is an audible or visual condition that occurred within 30 feet, it can trigger the enchantment, all other factors aside. This means that in a 30 feet radius, the Magic Mouth enchantment has much higher sensitivity to audible and visual stimuli than you, or any other creature for that matter, does.

Therefore, it is worth to simply attach one, such as an earring or tiny "Earpiece" to your ear, which can be triggered by a circumstance as general or as detailed as you'd like, to give you some kind of whisper whenever a visual or audible phenomena that occurs within 30 feet ( And being on your ear, that means within 30 feet of you ) which either corresponds to some general disturbance, or to some acoustic change in the subtle sound waves of the air ( Almost like passive sonar ), and so on. Much like the spell's example "When a silver bell rings", since it can be as general or as detailed as you want, you could do something like "Whenever a creature makes a sound" or "Whenever a non-humanoid's body is visibly moving" and so forth, allowing you to know whenever so much as a tiny spider skitters nearby. You could of course, also make the earpiece a capsule, each microchip with a different trigger and whispered output depending on what it detects, if one was not enough for various easons.

In fact, setting circumstances based on sound waves or air frequency/movement differences would effectively grant it's wielder a vague "Blindsight" ( Knowing when even an invisible creature has entered the Mouth's 30 feet radius, yet not exactly where, although that can be changed ), as per the description of "Blindsight" about heightened senses, creatures such as bats ( Although the enchantment is passive rather than active ), and so forth, but some might deem this incredibly cheesy. If not, feel free to enchant 12 Microchips, corresponding to clockwise directions, with each one triggered only if the disruption came from a certain clockwise direction, and gives off a message corresponding to it's number. So for instance, "6" only triggers by an audible/visual circumstance to the direct south relative to it's visual position ( Which is inside the earpiece, same as all the others ), and then constantly repeats the message "6" in the ear of the person by it's trigger.

As soon as the hidden creature changes position, say to 8 clockwise, then "6" stops repeating because it's trigger is no longer occurring, while "7" instantly triggers followed immediately by "8". This is one example of how to utilize containers.

Actually on second look, I'm overcomplicating things, the spell description examples themselves say that the spell is "smart" enough to to do something like trigger whenever any creature moves within it's range, just as a fact.

The Alphabetical Model

So remember when I said in point 5 at the tutorial that unfortunately we can't get two different messages from the same place, "Or can we?" - With the power of a container, you can. Not just two, all of them. Probably the crown jewel of Advanced Systems is the Alphabetical Model. It's plain, but incredibly powerful, bypassing the spell's only limitation, as long as you spend the gold on it. All you have to do is take roughly 26 tiny objects, and insert a vocal message in each corresponding to the letters of the alphabet, so "AA" and "Bb-" and so forth ( Including any special sounds you want ), set to trigger on the audible circumstance of you ( or anyone ) making the same sound as that letter, respectively, and set to repeat their message whenever the trigger occurs. Now whenever you say "Hello World", each object starting from "H" immediately triggers in chronological sequence, echoing the same sentence you just said pretty much simultaneously. ( Note that grammar doesn't matter since it's based on sounds rather than writing, so if you say "CAN", then the "E" object will trigger rather than "A" based on the sound, but it will be spelled exactly as it needs to be, since it's pretty much just like a recorder )

The "A message can't be more than 25 words" limitation has just been slaughtered, since each object's message is a letter sound that constantly repeats when triggered. Communication becomes indefinite. Now put 5 more repeater capsules just like that at 30 feet intervals, and welcome to the Telephone Line era. In fact, for privacy, change the circumstantial input of all the relays, and their message ( Except for the first transmitter, and last receiver ) into different frequencies. Now when you activate the letters form the first transmitter container, their respective message are instead low-key audio, and only the last container 120 feet away has the components which are set to receive the triggers in the form of frequency just like all the relays, but vocalize the appropriate letters as their messages.

What are the advantages over a simple message cantrip and for what seems like many enchantings in a downtime for very high sums of gold ( Which we'll reduce soon enough ), not to mention requiring physical conveyors to be placed? Well, for one, anyone can use it, not just casters. Anyone with sufficient gold may opt to buy such a device, or perhaps a kingdom which doesn't have dozens of casters to spare on playing errand boy ( Not to mention the privacy aspect ) for the entire population might want to outfit prominent locations or households with an Alphabetical model. Secondly, it can have a much greater range than similar low-level magic ( Don't worry about cost, we'll talk about it ), and it does not require knowing where a particular target is beyond a barrier, won't be affected by stone or metal placements as long as there is a line, and so on. Furthermore, you don't have to spend an action to talk, in case you want it for something. Lastly, inventing the two-way telephone line ( Naturally if the triggers are the letters themselves without frequencies, then it goes both ways, and if your'e using frequencies, then all you have to do is add a receiver capsule for the sender as well as transmitter, and a transmitter container for the other side ) for the common man in DND is already not too bad, but the Alphabetical Model isn't just for talking. It's for every Voice Command system too.

In "Sending" and "Telepathy", the benefit of being available at much lower level, not expending spell slots ( which runs out fast in Sending and consumes a very high level and only for one creature in Telepathy ) is still there, as well as the accessibility to the common man, and the use in Advanced Systems. The Wizard-exclusive "Rary's Telepathic Bond" which is also a ritual is much more superior, so upon having a Wizard who can cast 5th level spells, your party's communication needs are well taken care of. But that's fine, because this is not primarily intended to be a telephone for adventurers in dungeons, although can be early on if you want it to sometimes.

Cables

So in the tutorial, we started out spending no more than 30-60 gold, however a clockwise earpiece with 12 enchanted objects goes up to 120 gold, while an Alphabetical communications system that goes up to 120 feet is going to cost a whooping 1300 pieces of gold for all the components. Given that a Keep costs 500,000 gold pieces, this might not actually be too much for what is a revolutionary device when sponsored by various interest holders much as rudimentary inventions were in medieval times, or at higher levels, ( And spellcasters can always get gold very easily ), yet perhaps far too much at something like level 3, or for a village, and so on.

Containers and Microchips have many uses, but if going for long-distance transmissions or systems that need to cover vast territory, switching to cables eliminates the cost problem almost entirely. Recall that Magic Mouth can enchant any object, without size limitations. So let's take the Alphabetical Model for example. Instead of choosing pebbles or tiny grains, we'll choose cables, of any length. Say, 120 feet. If we want something more mobile, then the best materials would be something elastic, thin and relatively sturdy like rubber cables, or a resilient thin rope. If stationary, then it could be just a long thin stretch of stone, wood, or metal on the ground, underground, winding around house walls like piping, basically no different than any modern design.

So now with a single, thin 120 feet long cable acting as a letter rather than a series of pebbles, the price for a two-way phone line is always going to be exactly 260 gold pieces in enchantment, with increasing distance only adding to the cost in materials ( So 200 feet cables instead of 120 feet ones, and so on ), and given that it can be as thin as we want it to just as long as it reliably won't break, and made out of some of the cheapest materials around ( Some of which can even be created by spells out of thin air ), or in fact just bundle all 26 of those thin cables into a single Container cable to keep them safe ( Much like with real electricity cables ) and tidy, and it's going to be miles upon miles before even slightly raising that base cost. If you want frequency cables, it will be a bit more expensive since you'd need a transmitter and receiver containers at each end too, but not by much. A single investment of 1040 gold instead of 260, with all additional costs in cable material.

As a bonus, if you used portable materials, you can always move your cables and containers around too should you want to.

Binary

For really major cheapskates, willing to sacrifice comfort for the cheapest prices, you can always make a Binary model instead of Alphabetical model. Instead of 26 cables in a larger cable container, now you just need 2 - You guessed it, the first corresponding to 1 and the second to 0. You can now spend more time sending message in binary instead of letters, for 20 gold plus cable material rather than 260. Which is pretty stupid since both are one-time investments, but hey, languages like these can be of better aid in programming stuff possibly.

You could actually create an extremely swift binary model, though, by having around some kind of paper with something like this - h tt ps://i.pin img.c o m/originals/d0/bd/a1/d0bda14eabd91540753f8ac1068812ab.jpg, and some kind of thin pointy object. Set the circumstances of the "1" Cable to be the visual condition of that object passing over the number "1" in the paper, while "0" activates when you pass it over "0". Now within an instant when you flick your "pen" over a line of binary numbers, it sends out that sequence corresponding to the letter. However it probably means nothing to whoever was on the other side since it was so fast, only another "computer" enchantment could translate it. So set the messages of those cables to be frequencies just because we can as their message when triggered, corresponding of course to their numbers.

Now we need translations for both ends. Now at least we only need receivers on both ends ( Each component messaging a letter if it receives an encrypted binary sequence corresponding to it ), which is going to put everything at 540 gold for a frequency cable, rather than 1040 gold for the Alphabetical one.

The Early Dial-Up Phone

I'd go into more length about this, but I don't want to ramble and there are still a few other important things to cover, so I'll rely on the assumption that if you've read so far, you can probably even figure out how to make a multi-way and not just two-way communication line yourself, without me having to illustrate the concepts. If you're employing silent frequency transmissions, it might be expensive, since you'll need the two containers which translate these back and forth for each person who "owns a phone", but still ( Or hey, maybe not, at this point I myself haven't even delved too far into what could be possible with all the different functions or items or other permanent spells in DND ).

So let's say you have 5 households. Each has an Alphabetical model. Let's ignore frequencies for now, and say we want open multi-ended communication, as if it were a skype chat group. No need for complex programming, since we can just take 5-sides intersection cable and connect it throughout, or just a single regular cable winding through every house. So whenever someone talks in it's vicinity, it repeats it in letters that everyone hears, of course it will be a problem if people talk over each other, but that's also a problem if you were in a skype chat group. And you probably want those cables hanging from the rooftops or 30 feet underground so you don't get conversation from random street pedestrians too ( Unless that's what you want ). Although if you pay the extra expense for frequency cables, that's problem solved. Nobody in the street speaks in the enchanter's precise voice and volume "frequency" of the cables as to trigger them ( Unless they're evil hackers using Magic Mouth/Alter self and stuff to intentionally hijack into the communications, but firewall programming is a topic for another day ), and only the transmitters in the households receive vocal letter input.

So, what if we want the real dial-up phone? Person to person conversations. That's more tricky. You could of course, much like in bad coding, or if it's a small number like 5 here, just make different cable connections with different transmitter and receiver sets for and from each and every house, but that's also pretty expensive. So let's do something more tricky. Any of our objects can be triggered not just by audible, but visual circumstances. So let's invent the On/Off button. We can do this with a single cable.

Make an On/Off button. I mean, an actual button made of matter like on your wall switch which currently does nothing. Or just take carve "On" and "Off" somewhere on a table and grab a stone. Enchant a Magic Mouth component set to trigger in the circumstance of the "On" button being visibly placed as "On" or whenever the stone is placed on an "On" square, and to repeat whenever the trigger occurs. Congratulations on your first button. Pick some kind of specific message as it's frequency to play whenever it's "On". Now open up an household's receiver and transmitter ( If using frequency cables) containers. Remember Logic Gates? This is not really a classic one like the first example, but resembles the concept I guess. Instead of originally enchanting each "letter" object to in the transmitter to trigger when that letter is audibly uttered, and each one in the receiver to trigger upon a certain letter frequency and message that letter vocally, instead enchant both to only trigger if that letter/frequency, along with the background frequency of the "On" Switch, are both audible. Lastly, make the transmitter send out not just it's letter frequencies as it's message, but also another one with each letter unique to that household, which might as well be the same as it's "On" frequency I guess, and also make an alteration to the circumstance of the letters in the receiver - to trigger only when they receive a normal frequency with unique tracer, if it's precisely matching low-key frequency emanates from a magical mouth besides it.

However, let's take it a step further. Make 5 more "buttons", each one numbered from 1 to 5. Leave them alone for now. Currently we have in our Household, these buttons, the On/off one, and two containers with Alphabetical models. A transmitter that translates our words to cable frequency ( And also carried our unique household frequency ), and a receiver that translates cable frequency into words for us. Okay, great. Back to those buttons. Set their trigger to same as the On/Off, whenever you push or place something on them. Set the message of each to the same frequency as that of the transmitter unique frequencies in the various houses.

We're all done. Let's examine what happens. First of all, whenever the On/Off switch is Off, neither the transmitter nor receiver accept any traffic. The transmitter will only accept verbal input accompanied by "On's" frequency, and the receiver will only vocalize incoming traffic if "On" is active. John in House 1 turns his phone on, and calls Lucy in House 4. His voice only reaches the house whose phone is turned on, and let's say Lucy keeps it turned on, she's not asleep or anything right now. Whenever John speaks, the Letter-to-Frequency transmitter relays not just what he says, but also a unique "tracer" noise/frequency unique to his household. Right now, nothing happens either, since Lucy's transmitter transmitters only starts working if it receives a normal letter frequency, and two other matching low-key frequencies of the same kind. If Lucy wanted to accept calls from John, she turned off household's 1 button. The receiver now relays John's voice since it's combined audible conditions are met, and vice versa if John's button allows Lucy to talk.

If someone in Household 3 now turns on a phone and starts talking to himself, neither John's nor Lucy's receivers need be activated, unless he were to talk directly over them. ( simultaneous calls aren't possible with a single cable since all frequency letters are shared, but possibly with multiple cables ), nor would he receive communications from them if his phone was "On", but their numbers were "Off". So this allows for more private, coordinated conversations as long as everyone is playing along nicely. You can put countless safety measure with additional components/programming, you can do simultaneous calls with more cables, but as I've said in the start, I won't write an essay on dial-up phones since there's still much to cover, and you can easily realize how to do so yourself.

Walkie-Talkie Rope

If you're interested in early level party, or just in general, mobile communications that has the different aspects mentioned to it as opposed to Message/Sending, all you really need are earpieces, for the entire party if you want to and have the gold to spend, with a modular alphabetical transmitter and receiver ( Remember that these things can be as tiny as a grain of sand for a component ), and some thin coil of sturdy cable with significant length, either straight or branching from each party member, much like a climbing rope or probably longer than that, since it doesn't need to be that sturdy really. For 10gp ( or 120gp, if clockwise ) more each earpiece will also have a creature/disturbance detector, if you want it to. The cable's enchantment will be 260gp while the material should be next to nothing, but these earpieces do fetch a hefty price though, with 520gp for one alphabetical communicator. So depending on how good you are at getting gold, or if you just got a kingdom's worth for selling these inventions around, it isn't too unfeasible. If going for a Swift Binary model instead, it will be just 540gp for both cable and earpiece, and 520gp for each earpiece after that.

Once you have them though, first of all you'll always be able to communicate at any volume while within 30 feet of each other, or even make a human "chain" of 30 feet for each member with an earpiece. And as for the thin cable coil which really shouldn't hinder anyone very much ( Except maybe for combat, in which case in can just be very quickly ditched and picked up afterwards ), you can communicate over as long as your cable is, like someone advancing ahead in some tunnels or descending into a chasm even miles long, with everyone able to hear him.

Sensor Modules

We already know an enchanted object can functional much like an "Alarm" if you have an earpiece in alerting you to intruding creatures, except it's actually better than alarm. First of all, as enchanted objects rather than effects, Magic Mouths can also be augmented with the equally low-level Nystul's Magic Aura if you needed to disguise it from "Detect Magic" and it's likes for 24 hours. Magic Mouth is also 30 feet cube, rather than 20 feet for Alarm. Best of all, you don't have to spend an hour with ritual preparations to cover a much larger area by spreading out enchantments. With Magic Mouth you can have 10 sensors in a container in your pocket, and bring them out to spread around whenever you need to, retrieving them when your'e done.

But with programming, you can do even more. This level of finesse likely won't be needed for standard adventuring, but when it comes to protecting a lair, city, keep or base, it can prove invaluable. Let's say you have 10 sensors spaced to cover a certain perimeter, trigger by the circumstance of say a creature larger than Tiny moving within 30 feet of them, and sending out a frequency when that happens. Next to them in a container, they have just one more simple relay that accepts this frequency and repeats it, so even if the intrusion occurred 120 feet away from the caster, it gets transmitted through the inner sensors all the way to the earpiece.

But with some gold investment, it can be more specific than that or an Alarm spell. For simplicity, let's make it 9 sensor zones, with the cubes arranged such that they now cover a 90x90x30 ( height ) feet cube. Instead of 2 components for each sensor zone, you have 10 in a container. The first one is a repeater triggered by a creature's movement, and sends out a frequency message unique to it's "Sector", let's just call it "Sector A" for now. The other 9 components are simply relays, each one accepting the intrusion frequency of all other sectors, and relaying it as it's message. The caster's earpiece ( Or an additional module within an existing one ) has 9 receivers corresponding to those frequencies, which emit a message when activated by their respective frequency.

So let's now say the caster is in Sector I, 60 feet away from the nearest border and 90 feet away from the farther side of the Sector A cube, and an intrusion occurs in Sector A. The sensors activates and emit it's frequency. All the "A" relay components in the other sectors such as H,G and so on receive it and echo it all the way to the caster's earring in Sector I, whose receiver set to accept an "A" frequency then whispers "Intrusion Detected in Sector A." and keeps on doing so for as long as the creature is moving there. Furthermore, when that creature leaves the cube of Sector A and enters say, Sector B, or maybe even just teleports straight to D, the sensor in A stops being trigger, and the sensor in whichever place that creature is currently at does, tracking it's progression and informing the caster with the earpiece.

If there were multiple intrusions, all the intruded sectors would also relay their information, albeit it would be confusing for the earpiece wielder since they would be overlapping. This can be solved with some simply delay programming, if you wanted to, but won't be covered to save time.

Once your initial investment is done, you can always carry this container network with you and place it whenever you need to, much like anything else when it comes to Magic Mouth. You can even embed each container along some subtle spider-like lattice that you can spread out, for ease of picking up. As said before, it's probably irrelevant for simple adventuring, but if you need a security system for a very large zone, it's invaluable. Perfect detection and perfect tracking.

Anti-Magic Failsafe

If you're asking yourself whether or not a network like this could withstand a Dispel Magic or an Antimagic Field. The answer is yes to both. If someone were to even discover one of those containers given how small they could be, somehow figure it out for what it is while it can have any appearance ( With something like Detect Magic, and only if you didn't cast Nystul's on it ), it would A. Be too late and B. expend 10 of his level 3 spell slots just to disable every component in a single sector container, given that he has no clue what each grain in there does, only that they're magical, unless he wasted yet more slots trying to Identify each of them, by which time again, ritual or not, it's too late for him since his presence has long since been spotted.

Even if one were to traverse such a network with an Antimagic Field as to essentially be "under the radar" when it comes to magical detection, with Negative Output, he will still be discovered. All you need is a repeater which transmits constantly based on an ambient trigger ( Simplest one being, when it's within visual range of it's own container ) for each sector, and a receiver for those on an earpiece, whose trigger is whenever it hears, pretty much anything, without also hearing that ever-present frequency. We now know exactly when an Antimagic User has infiltrated a sector, hidden or not, and with some programming similar to the ordinary sectors themselves, we can track his movements too as usual.

Only someone extremely intimate with the system might try squeezing between containers with his 10-foot radius sphere as to not shut down any negative output component, assuming once again he knows their position while not being able to do any magic. Even so, it's nothing that two extra repeaters spaced out isn't going to solve.

The Voice of the Deceiver

This is an Alphabetical Model based invention rather than programming, but it's really good. It's Glibness, except at 2nd-level, better, works for everyone, can't be detected, and permanent. As long as you follow the English definition of "Speak". All you need is an Alphabetical model container inside your mouth. Whether it be a golden tooth or a small capsule under your tongue or between your teeth, with each letter set to trigger ( A circumstance as detailed as you'd like ) on the precise movements of your mouth, and outputting as the message the appropriate letter. You can also cast "Nystul's Magic Aura" on each component since they're objects to make them appear non-magical even to Detect Magic.

Now whenever you need to lie under a Zone of Truth while failing your saving throw ( So that the caster believes you cannot lie directly ), you speak absolutely nothing to them, you just move your lips. The alphabetical model plays recorded sounds.

Sound to Matter


I haven't really explored this area too much given I only recently realized the programming potential of Magic Mouth in the first place, but in case you're wondering, there is a way to convert the sound/information transmissions of Magic Mouth into physical actions in order to establish Semi-automatic physical interactions that can be activated from great distances. I won't go over spell descriptions again and leave it to you this time, but we're looking at "Arcane Lock" specifically, which is another "programmable" spell, identical in all the relevant aspects to Magic Mouth. Particularly, lasts until dispelled and "You can also set a password that, when spoken within 5 feet of the object, suppresses this spell for 1 minute." - This is how the conversion happens, although so far I only got semi-manual designs, you need to manually reset them once activated.

The first thing I can think of is traps. Let's say you have a corridor, and a ceiling, with some large empty spaces within that ceiling along the way ( Much like for a classic rockfall trap ), say 4 spaced out from each other, that you place large rocks into ( Through a ceiling vent leading back to your chambers, block and tackle, doesn't really matter right now ). And some kind of sliding door which normally would just cause the rock to force it upon through gravity and fall right through, but which "Arcane Lock" states will lock any closed door or other entryway, regardless if it even has a lock, and make it impassable until broken or dispelled and raises the DC to force it open/break it by 10. Or if you want, you could just have a regular seamless hatch ( as seen from below ) that is by itself too weak not to be forced upon by the weight placed upon it, but only strong enough when it's DC is raised by 10 via Arcane Lock.

Now designate a password for each of those, and just connect say, a regular alphabetical cable inside the walls or anywhere you want in that corridor, probably inside the walls just so it's hidden.

Now whenever you speak any password from the other end of the cable, arcane lock is surpassed for one minute, and that trap falls, not only dealing damage but also physically blocking that path if it's like a large boulder or cube. Advantages over a normal tripping line or the like include not exactly being able to be quickly disabled, hard to detect since there's no visible trigger, only maybe the texture difference for an hatch if someone is somehow able to perceive it, and unlike with normal magical traps ( Such as by sending a summoned creature and so on ), no way to really trigger it, except by trying to break open the hatch. And whoever does so, if that hatch is made of so much as metal, will quickly discover he needs something like a 28 strength check with the raised DC from Arcane Lock, or to both have memorized and waste a "Knock" or Dispel Magic and so on.

But that's really just the first thing which comes to mind. You can also have Semi-Automatic elevators that only need to be maintained every few weeks or so at higher level, but I'll only elaborate on that if it's requested.

Programmed Illusion

This can be a great asset to the Arcane Programmer, although I'll only mention it briefly, since it's much higher level, can't be done as a ritual and is stationary, but at least it does not consume it's component, so it's free as long as you have time to cast it. If you're making stationary lairs or bases, there are many ways in which this can intersect with Magic Mouth ( Which you still need, since you can cast Programmed Illusion only a few times a day, so no dozens of components without spending a very long time, and by the way just as a factoid, a Wizard with Spell Mastery could even cast either Magic Mouth exactly 480 times a day in it's 1 minute form, or 48 times in ritual form, and Arcane Lock exactly 14,400 times a day in it's single action form ), but that will be outside the scope of this guide. I will let you in on two things however:

You can disable it's "10 minutes dormancy" time by creating 3 duplicate illusions overlapping in the same space ( Which you can per RAW and the spell description, that does not require unoccupied space, since you know, they're illusions, and furthermore imperceptible until triggered ), and set the second illusion to trigger on the visual/audible circumstance of the first one ending, and the third illusion to trigger when the second one ends. So basically you now have the same programmed illusion lasting for 15 minutes, and 10 minutes having passed since the end of the first's performance, allowing to trigger once more and continue the cycle.

So this thrice-fold model either has no intervals and simply occurs whenever it's trigger does, or if you gave it a trigger which is always true, it will remain there and perform permanently.

Second tip, a Demiplane can turn a stationary system or gadget within reach wherever you are, at the expense of an 8th level spell slot. Depending on what systems you are creating, this might be wanted sometimes. Personally I'd start with filling the Demiplane with permanently programmed illusions ( Using the three-fold technique ) of a beach with rolling waves on the walls, a pair of virtual Drow strippers dancing in cages, and a soft glow filling the space whenever I enter the Demiplane, with a voice that intones "Welcome, character". Just to set the atmosphere.

S.E.L.E.N.A


Everything described so far can work together. Some lair or city, whether a DM's or a party's, can have a central "command center" overseeing a large zone which has communications channel with cables or containers, a sensor grid, even eavesdropping devices everywhere ( It's just like any frequency phone, except you place tiny alphabetical containers somewhere without an occupants knowledge, until the intervals are long enough that they feed to some street or tunnel cable, or just even continue with the tiny containers someone wants to and has gold, and then whenever something is spoken in that place, it gets transmitted to the listener ), and have password-activated traps that thanks to your sensor grid, you also know exactly when to activate. Speaking of Eavesdropping, at much higher level, you can periodically "Teleport" tiny containers into unwarded areas at intervals too until you can drop one far enough at some spot you could just sit in and listen to all day if you want. Unlike "Scrying", nobody is making any saves, you can listen in all day, and no spell slots will be further wasted, as long as the containers remain in place ( If they're small enough and you didn't drop them directly on a floor, then it's unlikely ). It might prove handy in some circumstances.

You can carry out similar gadgets that are all connected to a central earpiece for mobile purposes. While you're at it, why not make your integrated command receivers be a smug "A.I" named S.E.L.E.N.A, for no reason other than coolness, so you can say "Selena, give me a status report" or "Selena, put me on the line with" or "Selena, play me a song" ( From a playlist container with individual 25-word microchips along with some musical notes emitters ), I'd play this ( h tt ps:/ /w w w.youtu be.co m/watch?v=KNi8aW8Nf6s ) if I were you, I find the lyrics very fitting, and make the "messages" more quirky in a droning A.I voice, just because you can.

Wrapping Up

At it's core, this technique utilizes a spell which can draw audible or visual information either from the environment, or from another linked object, and relay it. Much as with coding, this is just a sample, but creative freedom is in the hands of the players to build what he wants with it, whether it's for flavor or for certain purposes. More can be done than just what's listed ( And some that I said will be added if requested, since this thread is pretty long ), either just by doing things differently, or combining it with other spells, like the other ones listed. For example, as it stands Arcane Lock is the only physical affecting, permanent, audio-triggered spell I could find, which can enable for various semi-manual contraptions, yet it's biggest barrier is that it doesn't produce any "work". If we use gravity to drop something upon a transmission ,we have to use spells or ordinary means to reset the mechanism. But combine it with an engine that can produce work, like a water wheel, and you can now have fully automatic, remote-controlled machinery designs. And since Arcane Lock can likewise enchanted extremely small objects of any type, I'm pretty sure that real engineers or scientists could even create compact automatic interactions based on some environmental conditions, but we'll leave that for now.

Anyway, at the very least, we now have more cool things to do at level 3 with a 2nd-level ritual spell that nobody really thought much of before.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Well done sir. This is now a must spell for any would be magical artificer.

https://i.giphy.com/media/dOJt6XZlQw8qQ/giphy.webp

[Kemptock]

Well done sir. This is now a must spell for any would be magical artificer.

https://i.giphy.com/media/dOJt6XZlQw8qQ/giphy.webp

Thanks. Also a few more additions to the sample list, just to write them down for easy reference:

Emergency Alert - Installed in houses/alleys or even earpieces, set to trigger under the general audible/visual circumstance of a creature making certain sounds of distress or frantic movements, and then relays a message to other emergency sensors within the vicinity. As with the original one, with more components it can also pinpoint the rough location in which the event occurred.

Arcane Detect Poison - Simply set to trigger whenever any poison entered/is visually in the area. Which is a general circumstance that it's indeed smart enough to recognize, much like the official example of "any creature" moving into it's area. Which really only takes a single enchantment and can be worn on one's person or set on a table, so the owner won't be poisoned. At least not without a Dispel Magic, which is going to be pretty hard if someone just constantly carries it around, or at least not without him knowing about it. And since it can be available to everyone for 10gp, sorry poisoners across the realms for the loss of employment.

Pedometer - Objects placed on your boots, or are your boots themselves, that trigger on the visual circumstance of you taking a step, which sends out a frequency message, along with a counter which stores the information by being set to trigger when for instance, the frequency message has been sent a thousand times, or any arbitrary number.

Precision Digital Clock - Pretty sure that I'm programming it more dumbly than it can be, but as it stands will cost 880 gold pieces. you have 24 microchips corresponding to hours, and 60 corresponding to minutes. They are set to trigger based on certain audible combinations. You also have 3 "Counters", each for the hours and minutes, one which is just an ambient repeater. And a single wrist watch or anything else you'd like with an On/Off Switch, enchanted to transmit a certain frequency while it's pushed to "On". Starting with that repeater, which is basically set to trigger constantly. Do some testing with a vocal output of some length, like "Yeah" or even 25 words, and determine how many times it repeated it over what you're pretty sure is a minute, based on finger counting or whatever. Now that we have that number, we no longer need the vocal output, ditch the component and switch it's output to a frequency that starts and finishes within the same length of time ( Finally making some use of that part in the spell description ). Set the "Minute Counter" to trigger whenever it hears that number of outputs in a sequence ( I.E, one minute ), and to send out it's own "Minute frequency" as it's message. So now it's sending out a frequency at intervals of one minute based on it's trigger. Set the message of each "Minute microchip" from 1 to 60 to be a vocal uttering of it's number, and to do so over exactly 1 minute. Set their triggers to be whenever the "Minute Counter" has "rung" for the same amount of times in sequence corresponding to their number, yet not if the message of an higher number has been transmitted within the last minute, or is currently being transmitted ( So 5 does not get triggered again when 10 minute counter ringings have been completed, and this works all the way from 1. Only when 60 is finished will number 1 trigger again. ), but also only in combination with the on switche's frequency frequency. That frequency comes from the "Time Switch" being set to "On".

Okay, now in order not to jumble things too much, let's first see what happens if we wanted to know just how many minutes have passed thus far, such as after we walked for 500 feet. Let's say we the players know that we started at 0 and it's now 15. Component 15 would currently be transmitting a vocal message of "15" over a minute ( Since the Minute Counter has "rung" 15 times, and no frequency of an higher component has been transmitted in the last minute, "minute" which can be describe to a machine, once again, using the elementary minute counter frequency ), were it not for the fact it also needs the Time switch to be On. So only when the wearer turns it On, the message plays, and they hear "15 Minutes"

Same goes for the hours, using the same components. Just that an hour's number 1 rings when the Minute Counter has rung 60 times, extrapolating all the way to 24, with the same stipulation on higher number messages having been transmitted in the last hour. Now just put a slight pause of like 5 seconds in the vocal messages of the minutes before they say "Minute Fifteen" for example, And a slight 5 second delay after the hour messages, and when pressing On, you'll get a message like "15 hour.. 52 minute". If you keep "On" pressed, it'll keep going for a minute, but update the minute after that, and update the hour after an hour has passed. You'll probably just want to turn it off through since it's annoying.

You will also perhaps notice that if the the switch is on "Off", , the number messages never player, but their trigger circumstances still "keep track" of the minute counter clicks. If you were paying attention then you might think it will lead to an overlapping problem since the higher numbers stipulation is not active, but it actually doesn't matter. If you turn it On, remember the "or is currently being transmitted" stipulation? If both 4, 2 and 1 are attempting to play, 4 must be the correct one, and the triggers for both 2 and 1 ( Since trigger and message are simultaneous ) get snuffed out before they even begun since an higher number is currently transmitting. And of course when 2 is the correct one, then 4 still won't be transmitting, and so on.

Keyboard - Hoarse from speaking? Use the keyboard. All it takes is something resembling an actual keyboard with letters and a space bar, and some alterations to the standard alphabetical model. You enchant each button in the keyboard to transmit the right frequency for it's key, so not very different from pebble or cable letters in the output, but enchanted them to trigger upon you pressing them ( visual circumstance ) rather than uttering the same letter. That keyboard is your transmitter, and you only need a receiver container in each end to convert those frequencies into letters in voice. The trick part is that in keyboard strokes, you have pauses between letters, so it's going to sound really broken off, but that is what the space key is for.

You enchant the space bar with nothing, but add an instruction line to all of the other key triggers - instead of the circumstance being when you press them, the circumstance should be for each letter "when pressed, only once only any letter which has been pressed before since the last press of the space bar finishes transmitting it's message, following each time in which the space bar is pressed". So say, you write "Fruits" on the keyboard. Nothing happens. As soon as you hit the space bar to begin a new word, the circumstance for "F" becomes true and it transmits ( been pressed, and following a pressing of the space bar ). On the other hand, the circumstance for R or U has not yet occurred. A letter that has been pressed prior to them since the last space bar stroke ( F ) has not yet finished transmitting it's message. Only when it does can R activate, and so forth to U, all the way to the end, so when you hit space bar, the word got relayed flawlessly. Now upon writing a new word, once again none of the letters will be transmitted, since they have been pressed but need to wait for another pressing of the space bar, and so the cycles goes. The only thing you'll have to do though is purposefully misspell your words so that you use the letters that correspond to the sound of the word, not it's proper writing.

Improved Trap Detector - Once again relying on the spell's "intelligence" to be triggered by a circumstance which can be as general as you'd like ( Such as knowing what a "creature" is and when any one regardless of visual makeup, I.E physicality, has moved within range ), one cann instruct it to trigger upon the general visual condition of a trap being within range. Unlike the 2nd-level "Find Traps", it would do so indefinitely, albeit within 30 feet. Using established precision modules, the location of all traps can also be pinpointed exactly. It will also be able to do what "Find Traps" explicitly can't, which is to detect environmental hazards that are not traps by RAW's definition, such as ( Using the examples in Find Traps ), hidden sinkholes, a natural weakness in a floor, or an unstable ceiling, to some degree, and within a 30 feet cube. Using one or several sensors. For example, a general circumstance could be "when the structural integrity of a construction within range has been visually compromised" which might detect minor cracks for instance. For something like an hidden sinkhole, it might take another component in the same container which detects "When an elevation change of 4 feet or more relative to the surface which is directly underneath the object is within a range of 30 feet", which will inform the wearer if there is a hidden sinkhole directly ahead from the ground he is currently standing on. For natural hazards, such as a cave about to collapse, a sensor might be instructed to be trigger upon an increase in ambient volume from natural formations within range beyond a certain threshold, which would alert you to subtle rumblings and the like ( Also works against lurking burrowing creatures that make noise, as pointed out by another poster ) long before you would first perceive them on your own.

[Mortis_Elrod]

This is great, and what you really need is the phonetic alphabet, and just use that over the one you've been using.

I'm not sure if a DM will throw a book or try to steal the technology in game, and the next campaign has Magictech.

[JackPhoenix]

You assume that the mouth has effectively infinite perception, and no set minimum size of the object it's cast on, despite it needing to be big enough to fit the mouth created when the spell is triggered.

Both are arguable and require ruling at the table, because there's no explicit RAW for them, and your ideas won't work without them.

If the DM rules favorably, it seems it should work, nice (and compact) replacement for the 3.5 necroputer, that no longer works in 5e.

[Dr.Samurai]

You assume that the mouth has effectively infinite perception, and no set minimum size of the object it's cast on, despite it needing to be big enough to fit the mouth created when the spell is triggered.
No size is given for the mouth in the spell description, so presumably the mouth would be small enough to fit on the object.

Both are arguable and require ruling at the table, because there's no explicit RAW for them, and your ideas won't work without them.
Can you elaborate? Where does he require infinite perception?

Even if a DM were to rule that you can't cast this on a grain of a sand, which should be legal if you can see it, the principle behind the technique still stands. Maybe you can't have an earring do this, but you could still carry around a case with pebbles in it or something.

To my mind, pebbles are fair game and more in line with raw than any minimum size you would attempt to impose.


To OP: great work! Thanks for sharing!

[JackPhoenix]

No size is given for the mouth in the spell description, so presumably the mouth would be small enough to fit on the object.

Can you elaborate? Where does he require infinite perception?

Even if a DM were to rule that you can't cast this on a grain of a sand, which should be legal if you can see it, the principle behind the technique still stands. Maybe you can't have an earring do this, but you could still carry around a case with pebbles in it or something.

To my mind, pebbles are fair game and more in line with raw than any minimum size you would attempt to impose.

I would assume that the mouth looks like the caster's mouth, including the size. Not as attempt to break this idea (I mean, I would just ban it outright if I had a problem with it), but because that makes the most sense to me.

Infinite perception is assumed with Frequency "we'll just whisper, in the lowest sound imaginable ( Yet perfectly registered by the enchantment)". The same also assumes the aforementioned whisper is "heard" by the mouth up to 30' distance, with no mention of background noise. Sounds like infinite perception to me.

[Christian]

I don't know whether to be thrilled that I finally have something to do with my high-level wizard's excess cash, or upset that my game has just morphed into my day job.

BEGIN

DO WHILE THREAD CONTINUES {

SLOW CLAP
}
LOOP
END

[Regitnui]

Holy smokes, someone's discovered House Sivis' next major project. With the infrastructure of the Lightning Rail already in place, these "alphabet capsules" could be set along the route and allow messages to be sent "telephonically" to a different Sivis message station, for a small fee. Allowing the rich and influential to dictate their telegrams to the system may be a major advance for Eberron's communication network. Actually, can we call this telecommunication yet?

[Mortis_Elrod]

I would assume that the mouth looks like the caster's mouth, including the size. Not as attempt to break this idea (I mean, I would just ban it outright if I had a problem with it), but because that makes the most sense to me.

Infinite perception is assumed with Frequency "we'll just whisper, in the lowest sound imaginable ( Yet perfectly registered by the enchantment)". The same also assumes the aforementioned whisper is "heard" by the mouth up to 30' distance, with no mention of background noise. Sounds like infinite perception to me.

Those are your assumptions based off of nothing given by the spell. Also spells aren't creatures with biological limits, they have the perception given and with this spell it is seemingly infinite.

[Dr.Samurai]

I would assume that the mouth looks like the caster's mouth, including the size. Not as attempt to break this idea (I mean, I would just ban it outright if I had a problem with it), but because that makes the most sense to me.
That's a reasonable assumption. But the spell tells us what the limits are: must be able to see it, can't be worn or carried by someone. That's pretty open-ended if the idea was it had to be large enough to fit a human-sized mouth on it.

Infinite perception is assumed with Frequency "we'll just whisper, in the lowest sound imaginable ( Yet perfectly registered by the enchantment)". The same also assumes the aforementioned whisper is "heard" by the mouth up to 30' distance, with no mention of background noise. Sounds like infinite perception to me.
So how would you treat a Magic Mouth's perception score?

[JackPhoenix]

That's a reasonable assumption. But the spell tells us what the limits are: must be able to see it, can't be worn or carried by someone. That's pretty open-ended if the idea was it had to be large enough to fit a human-sized mouth on it.

So how would you treat a Magic Mouth's perception score?

About equivalent to normal human(oid), but propably no perception score. It can react to plainly visible or clearly audible cues, but when actual wisdom (Perception) check is needed (like reacting to a sneaking creature), it autofails. It's not Alarm

Eh, I'm propably too influenced by 3.5 version (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicMouth.htm)

[Kemptock]

You assume that the mouth has effectively infinite perception, and no set minimum size of the object it's cast on, despite it needing to be big enough to fit the mouth created when the spell is triggered.

Both are arguable and require ruling at the table, because there's no explicit RAW for them, and your ideas won't work without them.

If the DM rules favorably, it seems it should work, nice (and compact) replacement for the 3.5 necroputer, that no longer works in 5e.

It is less of an assumption than it is a rule, really. The spell description states that you decide what triggers the object, a circumstance as general or as detailed as you'd like, as long as it is an "audible or visual condition" within 30 feet. To say that "The mouth did not trigger, the specified condition was not perceptible enough" is to go against the spell's description which states that the trigger is activated when the given condition occurs. The official example for such a circumstance - "For example, you could instruct the mouth to speak when any creature moves within 30 feet of the object" then seals the deal that the mouth does work exactly that way. It can be instructed to speak when any ( Any size, any type, even the tiniest rot grub or the tiniest, swiftest Quickling ) creature moves within 30 feet of it, regardless of the direction in which that creature came from, regardless if it is sneaking or not, which anything with a perception score cannot simply do automatically. Using that official example precisely, it would not even matter if the creature is invisible or not, as long as it moved within 30 feet. ( We know we can set the trigger to the subtlest sounds, so this is probably the reason, but either way, it is an official trigger example ). The spell most certainly does not "autofail" if a creature is sneaking.


What says that the mouth has determined size? a Quickling has a smaller mouth than a human. The spell description asserts that a magical mouth ( not the caster's mouth ) appears on the object. If it's a tiny object then it's going to be a tiny mouth. In fact the spell tells you that if you cast it on an object that has something that looks like a mouth, then it becomes the illusory mouth, so where is the relation to the caster's mouth? This is not a ruling, it's a rejection of RAW. When you cast the spell on an object, a mouth appears on it. It is not for us to even worry when the rules just inform us that something happens by default.

Neither of those require rulings without directly changing the Rules as Written as laid out in the spell's description.

[JackPhoenix]

It is less of an assumption than it is a rule, really. The spell description states that you decide what triggers the object, a circumstance as general or as detailed as you'd like, as long as it is an "audible or visual condition" within 30 feet. To say that "The mouth did not trigger, the specified condition was not perceptible enough" is to go against the spell's description which states that the trigger is activated when the given condition occurs. The official example for such a circumstance - "For example, you could instruct the mouth to speak when any creature moves within 30 feet of the object" then seals the deal that the mouth does work exactly that way. It can be instructed to speak when any ( Any size, any type, even the tiniest rot grub or the tiniest, swiftest Quickling ) creature moves within 30 feet of it, regardless of the direction in which that creature came from, regardless if it is sneaking or not, which anything with a perception score cannot simply do automatically. Using that official example precisely, it would not even matter if the creature is invisible or not, as long as it moved within 30 feet.

Is invisible creature coming into 30' a visual trigger? Is a creature hidden from the mouth by wall? Creature heavily obscured with Fog Cloud or similar effect? Is "whisper as low as imaginable" audible from 30'? If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

The trigger isn't creature moving into 30' from the mouth, it's *visual effect* of creature coming into 30'. The spell doesn't suggest it can detect invisible creatures or see through illusions.


( We know we can set the trigger to the subtlest sounds, so this is probably the reason, but either way, it is an official trigger example )

But we don't know that, the spell doesn't say that, only that the trigger must be audible.


What says that the mouth has determined size? a Quickling has a smaller mouth than a human. The spell description asserts that a magical mouth ( not the caster's mouth ) appears on the object. If it's a tiny object then it's going to be a tiny mouth. In fact the spell tells you that if you cast it on an object that has something that looks like a mouth, then it becomes the illusory mouth, so where is the relation to the caster's mouth? This is not a ruling, it's a rejection of RAW. When you cast the spell on an object, a mouth appears on it. That is all.

And when a quickling cast the spell, I would rule that the mouth is quickling-sized.


Neither of those require rulings without directly changing the Rules as Written as laid out in the spell's description.

And neither of my rulings contradicts spell's description. The perception ruling actualy fits the description better than "it can autodetect anything in 30' radius, no matter how obscure".

[Kemptock]

Is invisible creature coming into 30' a visual trigger? Is a creature hidden from the mouth by wall? Creature heavily obscured with Fog Cloud or similar effect? Is "whisper as low as imaginable" audible from 30'? If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

From the perspective of speculating on how the official example corresponds with the spell description, one can assume two things. The first, is that Invisibility and Greater Invisibility are a form of Illusion, and since that object is a magical effect and not a creature, there is no reason to believe Illusions work on it ( As if it were to have Truesight ), but the second most likely explanation is that it would detect movement based on subtle audible cues.

At any rate, you should ask that question of Jeremy Crawford rather than me. I am citing the official example - "For example, you could instruct the mouth to speak when any creature moves within 30 feet of the object". A player describes his circumstance precisely with that completely official wording. The spell description says - "When that circumstance occurs, a magical mouth appears on the object and recites the message " An invisible creature has moved within 30 feet of that object. Do you maintain that the object does not trigger? If so, it's contrary to RAW. RAI and assumptions are different story.

Is a creature hidden by a wall - The answer is no, if the object is still within a 30 feet cube of it. Fog Cloud - No. "Whisper is low as imaginable" audible from 30'? Yes, to the object. Much as a spider moving behind a tree into the perimeter of it's 30' feet cube would be a visual condition it can detect, going by the official example.


The trigger isn't creature moving into 30' from the mouth, it's *visual effect* of creature coming into 30'. The spell doesn't suggest it can detect invisible creatures or see through illusions.

But it is not. "For example, you could instruct the mouth to speak when any creature moves within 30 feet of the object ". Personal assumptions are not RAW. The spell doesn't suggest that it can, it straight out tells you that it can.



But we don't know that, the spell doesn't say that, only that the trigger must be audible.

We don't have to know that. The spell tells us to determine a circumstance. It gives only two limitations - that said circumstance must be based on a visual or audible condition. Is something an audible condition? Let's be even more of a sticklers and go to the official definition of "Audible", which is not "Can you hear it", but rather "Able to be heard"

ht t ps://en.oxforddictionaries.co m/definition/audible

>Able to be heard.
>"‘some ultrasound is audible to dogs’"

Yes, the magical object will react to any low whisper frequency that occurs within 30 feet of it.


And when a quickling cast the spell, I would rule that the mouth is quickling-sized.

Your ruling.


And neither of my rulings contradicts spell's description. The perception ruling actualy fits the description better than "it can autodetect anything in 30' radius, no matter how obscure".

But they do. When you tell a player who used an official RAW example as his circumstance that "The creature sneaked, the spell autofails, and the trigger does not activate" or that "it was hidden behind a tree when it entered, the spell doesn't work", you're violating RAW directly which states that you can choose a circumstance to be "When a creature moves within 30 feet", and then the part of the spell description which asserts that the spell triggers when the determined circumstance occurs.

Again, any questions about an official example should be directed to WOTC, not me. I do also have to add though that ponderings such as "Something being hidden from the mouth by a wall" are ridiculous in every way possible. You're treating a magically enchanted object as if it had eyes with directional line of sight. It doesn't. To theorize that it's "sight" is a Scrying-like omniscience within it's cube would make far more sense, yet it's still not RAW just like the first one. RAW is that we have a 30 foot cube and the spell triggers based on any audible or visual condition within it.

[JackPhoenix]

You know what? Fine. I've tweeted JC, let's see if he answers.

But again, you're making rulings on how to interpret RAW. Saying that RAW is perfectly clear is false. I'm making different ruling, both are equaly valid (and we're both convinced our interpretation is correct per RAI, so arguing who's right is useless unless JC says something, we're not going to convince each other until then)

I mean, I was about to write "but you're wrong, the trigger must clearly be visible or audible to the mouth, and the description doesn't say anything about the mouth having truesight and perfect detection ability", but that would lead to us repeating our respective arguments for another 5 or so pages

[Dr.Samurai]

This is actually not an advanced system, but rather even more simple than all of the above, yet occupies this section since it ties into many of the advanced systems, and has a practical in-game use. We've talked about how the spell has "unlimited perception", since it is a magical enchantment, much like "Detect Magic" ( An effect ) or "Symbol" and so on. As long as something is an audible or visual condition that occurred within 30 feet, it can trigger the enchantment, all other factors aside. This means that in a 30 feet radius, the Magic Mouth enchantment has much higher sensitivity to audible and visual stimuli than you, or any other creature for that matter, does.

Therefore, it is worth to simply attach one, such as an earring or tiny "Earpiece" to your ear, which can be triggered by a circumstance as general or as detailed as you'd like, to give you some kind of whisper whenever a visual or audible phenomena that occurs within 30 feet ( And being on your ear, that means within 30 feet of you ) which either corresponds to some general disturbance, or to some acoustic change in the subtle sound waves of the air ( Almost like passive sonar ), and so on. Much like the spell's example "When a silver bell rings", since it can be as general or as detailed as you want, you could do something like "Whenever a creature makes a sound" or "Whenever a non-humanoid's body is visibly moving" and so forth, allowing you to know whenever so much as a tiny spider skitters nearby. You could of course, also make the earpiece a capsule, each microchip with a different trigger and whispered output depending on what it detects, if one was not enough for various easons.

In fact, setting circumstances based on sound waves or air frequency/movement differences would effectively grant it's wielder a vague "Blindsight" ( Knowing when even an invisible creature has entered the Mouth's 30 feet radius, yet not exactly where, although that can be changed ), as per the description of "Blindsight" about heightened senses, creatures such as bats ( Although the enchantment is passive rather than active ), and so forth, but some might deem this incredibly cheesy. If not, feel free to enchant 12 Microchips, corresponding to clockwise directions, with each one triggered only if the disruption came from a certain clockwise direction, and gives off a message corresponding to it's number. So for instance, "6" only triggers by an audible/visual circumstance to the direct south relative to it's visual position ( Which is inside the earpiece, same as all the others ), and then constantly repeats the message "6" in the ear of the person by it's trigger.

As soon as the hidden creature changes position, say to 8 clockwise, then "6" stops repeating because it's trigger is no longer occurring, while "7" instantly triggers followed immediately by "8". This is one example of how to utilize containers.
Couldn't we get this precise enough to know the square the creature is in, by adding more Magic Mouths that trigger for varying distances/directions? So if we keep the clockwise directions, we can add distances to them up to the 30ft range. It can tell you approximately where the creature is, enough for you to target the square it is in (or move accordingly to its position).

[Kane0]

Nice. I'm going to get myself a 10-part piece of jewelry that detects creatures within 30' in the cardinal directions plus high and low for flying / burrowing creatures.
100gp sounds like an excellent price for a 30' creature radar.

[Kemptock]

You know what? Fine. I've tweeted JC, let's see if he answers.

But again, you're making rulings on how to interpret RAW. Saying that RAW is perfectly clear is false. I'm making different ruling, both are equaly valid (and we're both convinced our interpretation is correct per RAI, so arguing who's right is useless unless JC says something, we're not going to convince each other until then)

By the way, just to further review things, it should be noted that the Oxford Definition of "Visual" is "Relating to seeing or sight.", not even "Able to be heard" as with "Audible". That definition actually explains to you exactly why ( Aside from already knowing by the example that it can ) the object has "Truesight". Could a Pit Fiend see an invisible creature? Then an invisible creature moving is "related to seeing or sight", and as long as something is related to seeing or sight ( A visual condition ), the object can react to it. Once more stressing, visual and audible conditions =/= the caster's eyes and ears.

I honestly have no idea how do you think I'm making rulings on interpreting RAW. A spell description tells me that a player can determine a circumstance based on audible or visual conditions, that the spell activates when the circumstance happens, and then informs me that a player can choose his circumstance as "any creature moving within 30 feet", as a perfectly valid circumstance. So if a creature moves within 30 feet, I'm going to tell him that his spell triggered. Starting to make selections "But if it has an invisibility spell, but not if it's behind something, but not if it's too small, but not if it wasn't loud enough for a human" - those are rulings.


I mean, I was about to write "but you're wrong, the trigger must clearly be visible or audible to the mouth, and the description doesn't say anything about the mouth having truesight and perfect detection ability", but that would lead to us repeating our respective arguments for another 5 or so pages

And I'm about to write - "What the hell does it mean to be "clearly" visible or audible to a magical enchantment"?. You are indeed correct about those respective arguments continuing. You're also right that the description says nothing about it having Truesight and perfect detection ability. It instead tells us that it can trigger when any creature moves within 30 feet of it, which is actually more than Truesight since there's no sneaking and no hiding, and it tell us that it can activate based on visual and audible conditions that occur within 30 feet ( And the writers gave their example as something they consider to fit these parameters, regardless of the many ways in which the spell can do so ), and I already referred the English definitions for both words.

Although I wouldn't place any hopes on JC, it was more of a rhetorical advice, since he only even tweets ( about anything ) once every few weeks and answers 1 in a 1000 questions ( Since obviously he doesn't have time ), and usually the shortest, most obvious ones.

[Kemptock]

Couldn't we get this precise enough to know the square the creature is in, by adding more Magic Mouths that trigger for varying distances/directions? So if we keep the clockwise directions, we can add distances to them up to the 30ft range. It can tell you approximately where the creature is, enough for you to target the square it is in (or move accordingly to its position).

Sure. We can get a visual/audible accuracy rating in an area only limited by the amount of magical mouths that can be enchanted. That's why I called them sample designs, anyone can modify them in multiple ways.

[JackPhoenix]

Couldn't we get this precise enough to know the square the creature is in, by adding more Magic Mouths that trigger for varying distances/directions? So if we keep the clockwise directions, we can add distances to them up to the 30ft range. It can tell you approximately where the creature is, enough for you to target the square it is in (or move accordingly to its position).

Nice. I'm going to get myself a 10-part piece of jewelry that detects creatures within 30' in the cardinal directions plus high and low for flying / burrowing creatures.
100gp sounds like an excellent price for a 30' creature radar.

Those were my thoughts as well, and one of the reasons I would limit the spell's senses. (I was thinking of motion detector from Aliens)

Anyway, I'm not putting much faith in JC actualy answering, and I've made clear (hopefuly) that the objections are possible rulings, not RAW, so I'll arguing those rulings further until (and unless) I'll get an answer, to avoid spam that would drown out more possible suggestions to improve OP's (admittedly great, if the GM is onboard) idea.

[Kemptock]

Those were my thoughts as well, and one of the reasons I would limit the spell's senses. (I was thinking of motion detector from Aliens)

Anyway, I'm not putting much faith in JC actualy answering, and I've made clear (hopefuly) that the objections are possible rulings, not RAW, so I'll arguing those rulings further until (and unless) I'll get an answer, to avoid spam that would drown out more possible suggestions to improve OP's (admittedly great, if the GM is onboard) idea.

Very well, I do think that since it works by RAW most GM's who vouch by it would be on board, and if JC ever answers it should be interesting.

[jiriku]

Fantastic work. This needs to go into every artificer's book of tricks. And quite a few wizards.

One the things I've been grappling with while playing my artificer is that I can't actually make magic items when I want them, because there are no rules for doing so. This fills a gap.

A few thoughts to contribute:

A poison sensor is a great idea, but I'm not sure it would be reliable. Primarily you would want to detect poisons hidden in food or drink, but many such poisons have no audible or visual component to detect. You could easily get a false negative result when the poison is dissolved in a drink, for example.

Arcane lock DOES offer power generation, although in a limited sense. Construct a lock that is spring-loaded, with the spring forcing the lock to remain open. Activating the arcane lock will compress or stretch the spring, storing energy. Using the command word to suspend the spell will permit the spring to discharge, opening the lock and releasing the energy stored in the spring. This energy can then be used for other purposes. You'll need good springs. Which you can make with fabricate and smith's tools.

Arcane lock can only switch states once per minute, but with sufficient funding, one could install a set of locks in parallel. For 15,000 gp, a unit of 600 locks in parallel can switch at a frequency of 10 Hz, for example. Further, these locks can be slaved to an energy storage device that does not have a frequency restriction, such as a flywheel or a much larger spring, or can be used to drive a paddle wheel that lifts water to a storage tank at a higher elevation, creating a hydraulic reservoir that can be tapped for energy whenever needed. Your magic mouth circuits can provide the control system needed to operate this power-generation setup.

Likewise, the lock itself can act like a physical switch, for example by putting a prong on the end of its action that interacts with another device. Or put a spring-loaded lock on a gate damming the water reservoir described above. When the gate unlocks, the spring force can lever the gate open, releasing a flow of water.

And of course, you can use this to control the flow of water through a closed piping system. And water in a piping system is very much analogous to an electrical circuit, and can be used to control many other kinds of devices.

Almost as a side effect of developing a system of power generation, we've also invented indoor plumbing, and the mechanism for voice-activated flush-on-demand toilets. On-demand hydraulic flow also makes elevators pretty easy.

Thinking more about arcane lock, I imagine that construction of large/tall buildings would be easier with springlock drivers pushing blocks or carts of heavy materials up ramps. You wouldn't even need MM control for those.

[Dr.Samurai]

Sure. We can get a visual/audible accuracy rating in an area only limited by the amount of magical mouths that can be enchanted. That's why I called them sample designs, anyone can modify them in multiple ways.
Well, you were great in your explanation, I'm just a dunce so expect me to ask if various things can work lol.

Those were my thoughts as well, and one of the reasons I would limit the spell's senses. (I was thinking of motion detector from Aliens)
Hudson: Eight meters... seven... six.
Ripley: Can't be; that's inside the room.
Hudson: It's reading right man, look!
Hicks: Well you're not reading it right.

Trigger: A creature comes within six meters.
Message: You're reading it right. They're in the room.

[Kemptock]

Fantastic work. This needs to go into every artificer's book of tricks. And quite a few wizards.

One the things I've been grappling with while playing my artificer is that I can't actually make magic items when I want them, because there are no rules for doing so. This fills a gap.

A few thoughts to contribute:

A poison sensor is a great idea, but I'm not sure it would be reliable. Primarily you would want to detect poisons hidden in food or drink, but many such poisons have no audible or visual component to detect. You could easily get a false negative result when the poison is dissolved in a drink, for example.

Arcane lock DOES offer power generation, although in a limited sense. Construct a lock that is spring-loaded, with the spring forcing the lock to remain open. Activating the arcane lock will compress or stretch the spring, storing energy. Using the command word to suspend the spell will permit the spring to discharge, opening the lock and releasing the energy stored in the spring. This energy can then be used for other purposes. You'll need good springs. Which you can make with fabricate and smith's tools.

Arcane lock can only switch states once per minute, but with sufficient funding, one could install a set of locks in parallel. For 15,000 gp, a unit of 600 locks in parallel can switch at a frequency of 10 Hz, for example. Further, these locks can be slaved to an energy storage device that does not have a frequency restriction, such as a flywheel or a much larger spring, or can be used to drive a paddle wheel that lifts water to a storage tank at a higher elevation, creating a hydraulic reservoir that can be tapped for energy whenever needed. Your magic mouth circuits can provide the control system needed to operate this power-generation setup.

Likewise, the lock itself can act like a physical switch, for example by putting a prong on the end of its action that interacts with another device. Or put a spring-loaded lock on a gate damming the water reservoir described above. When the gate unlocks, the spring force can lever the gate open, releasing a flow of water.

And of course, you can use this to control the flow of water through a closed piping system. And water in a piping system is very much analogous to an electrical circuit, and can be used to control many other kinds of devices.

Almost as a side effect of developing a system of power generation, we've also invented indoor plumbing, and the mechanism for voice-activated flush-on-demand toilets. On-demand hydraulic flow also makes elevators pretty easy.

Thinking more about arcane lock, I imagine that construction of large/tall buildings would be easier with springlock drivers pushing blocks or carts of heavy materials up ramps. You wouldn't even need MM control for those.

Thank you, I was actually thinking about this for a long time ( Although yours is far more elegant ), I did entertain the notion of Arcane Lock producing work in the form of pressure ( I originally imagined a wine-skin like container with a zipper that is inflated from pressure, with Arcane Lock likewise producing work by inflating and deflating it ), however, I ran into the problem, which is that ( As you can tell from recent exchanges ), I must first ensure that a design adheres to RAW with atomic precision.

Therein we run into a problem. Arcane Lock, a magical spell, tells us what it does ( Locks a closed entryway, makes it impassable until broken or dispelled, and raises the "DC" to break/force open/pick any locks on it by 10 ). First of all the question is if Arcane Lock can be cast on an actual Lock, seeing as how it lists - "You touch a closed door, window, gate, chest, or other entryway", and only specifies that it makes existing lock on the selected object more difficult to pick. Also, the chosen object must be "closed" when enchanted, so if the lock starts in an open position, we can't cast Arcane Lock on it to begin with. Then we have the problem of Arcane Lock's method of locking something not necessarily being related to physics, as it is, an Arcane Lock after all, from the school of Abjuration. For all we know it "locks" something by creating some kind of weird Abjuration Ward-like ward around it that functions in mysterious ways.

So in other words, assuming we can directly enchant a lock, we don't actually have any RAW to inform us what happens to something which is already placed within the spells area, that is meant to be impassable ( Or very difficult to break, at least ). Do we have any way to address both of those questions purely through the spell's description? Otherwise it would have to rely on DM jurisdiction.

Parallel locks to disable their delay ( Much as with a thrice-fold illusion ) is perfectly valid however. In fact this can also be integrated with something I've been thinking about how to do for a while now, but at a much faster rate:

Visual Output - The basic design is this ( h ttp s://i.imgur.co m/Yryq3UZ.png ), ( Remove spaces from link). It was actually much more difficult than I thought since many of the elements here are designed for the sole purpose of conforming to the spell's direct RAW. The diagonal surface declines yet upright gates, and so forth. Basically, first of all this picture should be viewed as a much smaller size, but not too small, something like an Ipad's size perhaps. We have a "screen", the square frame. Imagine it as just being a transparent pane of glass. Behind it, ( or inside, if you imagine it as a transparent box ) we have the sloping diagonal "bowling lanes", which are just flat declined surfaces, "fenced" of course, that balls can roll down on. Each one connects to a chute that small balls can be dropped into.

However, in the middle, there is a divider ( represented by the thin yellow line ), much like in a highway. So we have the north lane, and south lane, for each one of those bowing lanes in the picture, and the chutes themselves are likewise divided, so that we can either drop balls to the north or south lane. At intervals, along both the north and south lanes at each line, we have small "gates" enchanted with Arcane Lock ( which are in an upright position, but still blocking the path, and hinged like self-closing bar doors, whenever something enters through them, they swing back to their closed position once it's passed. This is unrelated to the Arcane Lock, it's actually what should happen without it, just as with real bar minidoors ). Starting in their closed position ( Since nothing crashed through them yet ), we enchant them with Arcane Lock to become locked and impassable until the spell is surpassed.

Now, it's pretty simple, we drop down a ball, it rolls all the way until the space in front of "Gate 0" in the picture and stops there. When we utter a password to surpass the lock on that particular gate, in the particular side of the lane, the balls forces it open, continues rolling down to 1, while Gate 0 reverts back to closed, and 1 minute later, arcane lock reasserts it's lock on it once again. After one minute, we can drop another ball and it once again stops at the locked Gate 0.

Each side of a cute which corresponds to north/south lanes per line only gets inserted with a specific ball color. Say, black balls for north chutes and lanes only, and white balls for south lanes and chutes only. So now we know that using Arcane Mouth, we can create an automatic mechanism that does something like, starting it's "arrangement" from space number 10 ( By opening all gates up to 10 ), put colored balls in a certain sequence for the depth perspective of the observer looking through the pane. So say, we have 5 of those divided bowling lines. We can cause a vertical sequence of "White, black, black, white, black" by opening all the gates at the appropriate side of the lane throughout all of them, then wait a minute, before opening all of them up to 9 for a different sequence, or even just one of them.

So we get a certain very vague "frame" with balls filling every space following 10 minutes, which can be automatically sequences. We can even tag such frames, or individual sequences in lane, with a single word, and magic mouth circuits will execute it in order through the Arcane Locks placed along the lanes, so that the color sequences is how it needs to be from the glass pane. Whenever we need to reset the frame, once every 10 minutes, we just open a regular downward chute as depicted to the right ( Yet also for each lane ) which empties out all the balls.

So a major downside here of course, is that we only have a frame per 10 minutes, in order for the Gates to be locked again as to allow for proper placement of the next ball. With something like you said, albeit with massive amounts of gold, this can be rectified. The second problem is once again a gold problem, which is that we don't get much variety with only 5 of those lanes like in the picture. When reaching insane theoretical sums of gold however, it can essentially be a black and white pixel system.

And third problem, although I minimized it as much as possible no matter how many lanes we have ( Since gravity and locks do all the work ), is that we need to refill the chutes with colored balls/grains ( at micro pixel scales ) when the system reset. Granted, it takes a laughable amount of "work" on our part to just pick a bunch of colored pebbels/handful of colored sand and drop it down a chute for the Ipad display, but still makes it semi-manual. ( Until we can figure out if the springlocks are irrefutable RAW )




Well, you were great in your explanation, I'm just a dunce so expect me to ask if various things can work lol.

Hudson: Eight meters... seven... six.
Ripley: Can't be; that's inside the room.
Hudson: It's reading right man, look!
Hicks: Well you're not reading it right.

Trigger: A creature comes within six meters.
Message: You're reading it right. They're in the room.

No problem, I'm still considering all the implications involved myself.

[ATHATH]

A minor problem that I noted with the frequencies:
Let's say we have 5 stones: A, B, C, D, and E.
A is a transmitter that outputs "beep".
B, C, and D have the condition(s) of "when the sound 'beep' is created by a magic mouth spell within 30 ft. other than this one, output 'beep'".
E is a receiver that reacts to the sound "beep" being created by a magic mouth spell within 30 ft.

They are arranged in a line, with each stone being 30 ft. from the next stone in the sequence.

A triggers, and outputs "beep".
B responds to A's "beep", and outputs "beep".
C responds to B's "beep", and outputs "beep".
B and D respond to C's "beep", and both output "beep".
E reacts to D's "beep", and C responds to B's "beep", outputting "beep" in response.
B and D respond to C's "beep", and both output "beep".
E reacts to D's "beep", and C responds to B's "beep", outputting "beep" in response.
B and D respond to C's "beep", and both output "beep".
E reacts to D's "beep", and C responds to B's "beep", outputting "beep" in response.
B and D respond to C's "beep", and both output "beep".
E reacts to D's "beep", and C responds to B's "beep", outputting "beep" in response.
B and D respond to C's "beep", and both output "beep".
And so on.

This problem can be fixed by changing the setup of the stones to the following:
A is a transmitter that outputs "beep".
B has the condition of "when the sound 'beep' is created by a magic mouth spell within 30 ft. other than this one, output 'beep'".
C has the condition of "when the sound 'beep' is created by a magic mouth spell within 30 ft. other than this one, output 'boop'".
D has the condition of "when the sound 'boop' is created by a magic mouth spell within 30 ft. other than this one, output 'boop'".
E has the condition of "when the sound 'boop' is created by a magic mouth spell within 30 ft. other than this one, output 'beep'".
F has the condition of "when the sound 'beep' is created by a magic mouth spell within 30 ft. other than this one, output 'beep'".
G has the condition of "when the sound 'beep' is created by a magic mouth spell within 30 ft. other than this one, output 'boop'".
H has the condition of "when the sound 'boop' is created by a magic mouth spell within 30 ft. other than this one, output 'boop'".
I has the condition of "when the sound 'boop' is created by a magic mouth spell within 30 ft. other than this one, output 'beep'".
J is a receiver that reacts to the sound "beep" being created by a magic mouth spell within 30 ft.

The cycle of "BCDE" can be repeated indefinitely, as shown by the inclusion of F, G, H, and I. Only two words, "beep" and "boop", are needed for this process to work.

[Kemptock]

A minor problem that I noted with the frequencies:
Let's say we have 5 stones: A, B, C, D, and E.
A is a transmitter that outputs "beep".
B, C, and D have the condition(s) of "when the sound 'beep' is created by a magic mouth spell within 30 ft. other than this one, output 'beep'".
E is a receiver that reacts to the sound "beep" being created by a magic mouth spell within 30 ft.

They are arranged in a line, with each stone being 30 ft. from the next stone in the sequence.

A triggers, and outputs "beep".
B responds to A's "beep", and outputs "beep".
C responds to B's "beep", and outputs "beep".
B and D respond to C's "beep", and both output "beep".
E reacts to D's "beep", and C responds to B's "beep", outputting "beep" in response.
B and D respond to C's "beep", and both output "beep".
E reacts to D's "beep", and C responds to B's "beep", outputting "beep" in response.
B and D respond to C's "beep", and both output "beep".
E reacts to D's "beep", and C responds to B's "beep", outputting "beep" in response.
B and D respond to C's "beep", and both output "beep".
E reacts to D's "beep", and C responds to B's "beep", outputting "beep" in response.
B and D respond to C's "beep", and both output "beep".
And so on.

This problem can be fixed by changing the setup of the stones to the following:
A is a transmitter that outputs "beep".
B has the condition of "when the sound 'beep' is created by a magic mouth spell within 30 ft. other than this one, output 'boop'".
C has the condition of "when the sound 'boop' is created by a magic mouth spell within 30 ft. other than this one, output 'bap'".
D has the condition of "when the sound 'bap' is created by a magic mouth spell within 30 ft. other than this one, output 'beep'".
E is a receiver that reacts to the sound "beep" being created by a magic mouth spell within 30 ft.

Note that the pattern of B, C, D can be repeated indefinitely with other stones until the message reaches its destination; only the sounds "beep", "boop", and "bap" will be needed.

Yes, that's actually the described feedback loop more so than a problem. That solution is indeed what unique frequencies are for systems like the Dial-Up phone, Alphabetical model with a different frequency for the various letters, and so on ( In a cable it's not an issue, since each letter is a single unique relay along any length of cable ).

In the original tutorial example, in which we had 3 stones, it actually wouldn't matter. the Input for A is "Execute", it's output is the frequency. Only for Stone B, both the input and output are that frequency, which can only be transmitted by A. Stone C, the receiver, only accepts that frequency as input from Stone B, but outputs "Message Received". So in the tutorial example, only B is a dual relay, while A is the frequency transmitter and C is a frequency-to-voice transmitter, so there was no need to account for feedback loop there. But this looks like a very efficient programming method for long-distance/multiple container transmissions that doesn't require a vast array of unique frequencies.

[Wondermndjr]

And so Strahd installed an automatic wiring system into his castle. I feel sorry for my players now.

On the system -- this is an amazing way to use an oft-overlooked spell, and I am quite impressed. Are modern electronic circuits completely replicable like this? If so, would it be possible to build a Turing-complete computer in this way? You already have a system of inputs and outputs, but I'm not sure whether the internal structure is viable.

[Kemptock]

And so Strahd installed an automatic wiring system into his castle. I feel sorry for my players now.

On the system -- this is an amazing way to use an oft-overlooked spell, and I am quite impressed. Are modern electronic circuits completely replicable like this? If so, would it be possible to build a Turing-complete computer in this way? You already have a system of inputs and outputs, but I'm not sure whether the internal structure is viable.

I have no idea, it would probably take a chief computer scientist to answer that question. Without physical interactions unlike electricity, and no visual interactions, then any modern appliance which utilizes those will naturally not be possibly to be replicated, although as added later on, "Arcane Lock" might be able to substitute those semi-manually, which brings me to something else, what Jiriku has proposed and I responded to. I think I may have found a way to design the coveted springlock battery, with perfect adherence to RAW, but I am not sure if the physics check out. This is the illustration - ( ht tps://i.imgur.co m/P6WLUfZ.png )

We have a "battery"-like container with two horizontal gateways, which start out in the closed position and therefore we can enchant with Arcane Lock. We then insert a highly compressed spring underneath the lower, currently impassable and locked gateway, which is not strong enough to force open with the Arcane Lock ( But can easily do otherwise ). We also close and lock the upper gateway in the battery, and finally place some kind of projectile on top of the lower gateway, which once again does not force it open downward, since it is locked. The projectile should fill out about half the space of the container. Then we just seal the contraption completely, no more manual work, since it should in theory become automatic soon enough.

First, we password-activate the upper gateway, causing the spell to be surpassed. after a certain, very specific length of time within the minute in which it is surpassed ( Let's randomly imagine it is 52 seconds ), a period of time that we know it would take our ball to complete a process upon the very second in which that minute has passed, which is to be launched upward, pushing open that hinged gateway, entering the space above it, and for those gateway doors to swing back down the position where they are closed once the ball passed through them, after exactly that period of time has passed since surpassing the upper gateway initially, we release the lower gateway.

What is expected to happen is for the coiled spring to then bust through the lower gateway, send the ball jettisoning upward all the way up as it pushes open the flimsy ( while unlocked ) upper gateway, which quickly swings back down, yet as soon as it's bar-style doors reach equilibrium in position, in that exact moment Arcane Lock re-asserts itself, and the ball which is now pulled back by gravity is halted by the locked upper gate way.

Meanwhile however, the lower spring is now sticking out through the lower gateway, keeping them open, which will prevent arcane lock from re-asserting again. However, now that the upper gate closed, it can be password-surpassed again. So the using exact timing it would take to fall back down, push down on the now diagonally jarred doors with it's gravitational momentum which push down on the spring until they are in equilibrium then for the arcane lock to immediately activate ( Before the spring overcomes the initial momentum deliver by the ball's pressure ), we surpass the upper gate, allowing that process to happen, which should revert the entire thing back to where it originally was.

This is the only way I can think of to make a fully automatic "Springlock" mechanisms which is an arcane-powered motion machine. But it depends on a whole assortment of factors like velocity, object density, the spring's force, force calculations, and I don't know what else, so I need someone with more expertise to review the design. If it is, then the path not just to electronics, but to machinery, has been paved.

[Wondermndjr]

The problem here (I believe) is that any attempt to build a self-resetting mechanism that also does something useful is a violation of the first law of thermodynamics, since the energy of the initial and final states of the mechanism would be equal and work would have been done. Arcane Lock is only capable of storing potential energy and can't generate any by itself, so it won't be able to do so by itself. Essentially, we're trying to build a perpetual motion machine here, and I'm pretty sure it's not possible without the ability to generate energy from nothing. Magic can do that, but I'm not seeing a permanent way by strict RAW.

Should the DM allow Arcane Lock to close things that have been opened, then this is certainly possible because it now gains the ability to do work. Building Arcane Lock + Magic Mouth-based "batteries" is possible, but they won't be rechargeable without mechanical work. Finding a way around that pesky First Law is what we'd need to do this.

[Kemptock]

The problem here (I believe) is that any attempt to build a self-resetting mechanism that also does something useful is a violation of the first law of thermodynamics, since the energy of the initial and final states of the mechanism would be equal and work would have been done. Arcane Lock is only capable of storing potential energy and can't generate any by itself, so it won't be able to do so by itself. Essentially, we're trying to build a perpetual motion machine here, and I'm pretty sure it's not possible without the ability to generate energy from nothing. Magic can do that, but I'm not seeing a permanent way by strict RAW.

Should the DM allow Arcane Lock to close things that have been opened, then this is certainly possible because it now gains the ability to do work. Building Arcane Lock + Magic Mouth-based "batteries" is possible, but they won't be rechargeable without mechanical work. Finding a way around that pesky First Law is what we'd need to do this.

Actually even if the self-resetting mechanism does nothing useful, it's still valuable to a system as an observable, physical interaction, something the system currently lacks ( Except for the illusion of a mouth on an object, but that is pretty inaccurate ), since it could introduce more options when it comes to information delivery. We already violated the first law of thermodynamics though ( If one treats everything magic relayed to not qualify under actual physical definitions of energy ) by creating, destroying and creating energy using Arcane Lock.

When a boulder comes crashing down on a thin wooden bar gate, no force in the universe can prevent the incoming results without inserting useful work of it's own to stop it ( Such as the equivalent of installing iron reinforcements to said gate ), yet the casting of Arcane Lock does so. It then also temporarily "destroys" the energy it imbued within that wooden entryway when surpassed with a password, and creates it again a minute later. And it's got an infinite reservoir of such energy, unlike an actual physical mechanism which whenever disabled ( Such as unlatching or dismantling an iron chain ), would require further useful work to put back, and can't happen automatically unless powered by an energy source which in turn is powered by useful work from somewhere rather than creating energy magically.

But as I said, we know what the spell does, not how. We don't know if it made the wood's particles as dense as metal ( Although not being Transmutation, it is an unlikely speculation ), or if it did something like place a locking Forcefield equivalent to Wall of Force on it, so that it becomes impassable and much tougher to penetrate, since it is actually the magical force that needs to be broken or forced open ( Which as an abjuration spell, seems more fitting ).

We do know though that this automatic bolstering of a matter's resilience is a violation, in that it creates new energy. However, that statement only tells us that we could derive useful work by repeatedly casting "Arcane Locks" to bestow energy on objects. The real question that needs to be asked is - How to close back the entryway while the spell is surpassed, until the spell re-asserts, which then makes it a perpetual energy creator.

Hence my particular design. We already have self-closing door hinges. Not really sure what their actual name is, but I'm talking about these ( https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/07/e2/a6/66/the-brick-house-bar-and.jpg ). But what we don't have and never can have is a way to place a magical enchantment which suddenly makes them locked, impassable as steel and can automatically turn such a feature on/off without any new energy being added to it or any energy taken from it. All that is left to do is how to exploit that little "Forcefield", which is what I attempt in that picture.

If we have a spring that sends a projectile bursting through some upper flimsy gateway, normally as it plummets back down, it won't be strong enough to stop that gravitational pull, just as it wasn't strong enough to keep it from being jettisoned through with momentum. The only way this condition changes is if someone puts in useful work to reinforce said gateway immediately. But Arcane Lock reinforces it instantly and automatically, so that ball is now suddenly encountering much more resistance from that entry than it did just a moment ago, and with no useful work. I'm pretty sure this does cheat energy, the only question is how much and how to use it.

That being said though, I always know of a design that produces industrial amounts of energy in the span of 10 minutes ( Or even an hour with more spell slots ) using Arcane Gate (https://i.imgur.com/VDRkZAe.png). If that ball is made of Lead, ( 20 feet in diamater, same as that of the Arcane Gate ), then we're looking at an object weighing about 6 tons moving at a speed of roughly 200km/h at best, which is quite the energy output.

[Mjolnirbear]

This is genius. And I would straight-up ban it.

RAW aside, this isn't the intended function of the spell. I'd let it utter a command word (activate a magic item) or allow your ideas for size come into play. But I'd put a full stop onto letting one magic mouth activate another.

That's not to say it's not creative and well-thought out. But I would not allow it to go as far as this logically takes you.

As a side note, you can simply use Morse Code with a binary setup rather than an alphabet setup.

Another side note is that I'm certain my eyes glazed over at the alphabet part, but I'm not certain it would work in less you spelled every word. English has many more sounds than letters: there are two 't' sounds, two 'p' sounds, two 'th' sounds that have nothing to do with the letters, an 'ng' sound you can't even pronounce as an English speaker on its own, and lets not even talk about nasal sounds, voiceless sounds, stressed sounds and the schwa.

Then you have accents. Régional variations. Rolled 'l' and 'r' or something else.

Perhaps you did Account for it. As I said, my eyes glazed over; my superficial knowledge of programming would fit in two bits and it was sorely tested today lol.

[Kemptock]

This is genius. And I would straight-up ban it.

RAW aside, this isn't the intended function of the spell. I'd let it utter a command word (activate a magic item) or allow your ideas for size come into play. But I'd put a full stop onto letting one magic mouth activate another.

That's not to say it's not creative and well-thought out. But I would not allow it to go as far as this logically takes you.

As a side note, you can simply use Morse Code with a binary setup rather than an alphabet setup.

Another side note is that I'm certain my eyes glazed over at the alphabet part, but I'm not certain it would work in less you spelled every word. English has many more sounds than letters: there are two 't' sounds, two 'p' sounds, two 'th' sounds that have nothing to do with the letters, an 'ng' sound you can't even pronounce as an English speaker on its own, and lets not even talk about nasal sounds, voiceless sounds, stressed sounds and the schwa.

Then you have accents. Régional variations. Rolled 'l' and 'r' or something else.

Perhaps you did Account for it. As I said, my eyes glazed over; my superficial knowledge of programming would fit in two bits and it was sorely tested today lol.

You could actually "disable" a town or even a city with the size enchantments alone really, but nevermind that, wouldn't want to stray from the topic too much.

A binary setup was listed, although it would be slower than the Alphabetical model. As for the sounds, you can always add an object or two, but I did not notice much that would prevent an intelligible conversation. You'll have to give me some word example about t and p ( I'm actually not even a native English speaker ), but "th" for example as in "Thistle" would just activate the "F" letter, while "th" as in "The" would activatte "De". Everything else was indeed not intended to be included, including things like regional variations and accents ( The messages are all always going to be in the voice of the casters who enchanted them anyway, although you might do something like use Alter Self to give someone whom you sold a gadget a message that plays in his own voice ). But yeah, the standard model is only for a conversation that can be generally understood, not finesse. Although you could pour more gold in and create a 100 more objects with different sounds to make it seem more natural if you wanted to.

[XmonkTad]

I'm 100% in love with this idea and the guide to go with it. If only there was some way to get around that pesky component cost. Ah well. It's not prohibitively expensive, especially not for things like 30 ft blindsight and telecommunication.

[Saeviomage]

If you can say it, the magic mouth can repeat it. Therefore if you can take the form of something that can create nano-second long ultrasonic pulses, you could vastly upgrade the speed of a network of these.

I guess if you are allowed an exhalation or inhalation as an utterance, then you have the fundamentals of a speaker. Chaining together magic mouths that react to small pressure changes with magic mouths that transmit nanosecond pings, then at the end magic mouths that exhale or inhale tiny amounts is basically creating a digital communication system. Anything you say at one end comes out the other.

"If input a and b are not emitting sound, emit sound" is a nand gate, which means you have the basic building blocks of binary logic. You can make any computer using such a construct.

[Mjolnirbear]

Okay, so in English, all voiceless stops (p, K, t) are either aspirated or unaspirated. The 't' in 'top' and the 't' in 'stop' are different. Put a lit match in front of your mouth and shout stop. The flame barely flickers. But whisper top, and it's likely to go out. We don't even know we do it, but other languages do. It's insignificant to use but it is very important.

A similar difference is with voicing, except we notice this one. The difference between b and p is that one is voiced (voice box is relaxed). When you whisper, you can't tell them apart, because you can't voice a whisper. S and z, t and d, K and g are further examples.

Nasalization. Let's head over to French for this one. Stationne, à verb Form of Parking, pronounces N like we do. But station, which is used like we do, does not pronounce the N. Instead, it nasales the vowel Ô. English does this automatically with all vowels before an N or M; because it's automatic, we don't notice, same with aspiration. But in French, it's a huge deal; failure to do this correctly just screams you're not a native French speaker.

I could give you rules like this forever; the phonetic alphabet comes close to duplicating this, but also has diacritics marks that you have to account for which change the sound (aspirated t looks like 't to the power of h', for instance). But the average English speaker has no idea how many sounds it makes that have nothing to to with spelling. Just trust me on this: an alphabet will not work. The phonetic alphabet might, plus letter variations for diacritics marks, if your World happens to have one.

To make an alphabet work you would have to spell every word. Might as well use morse code.

Of course, with magic, it's usually 'good enough'. A command word can be whispered, or shouted, with change more than simply volume, but they're accepted nonetheless. But that's as much intent of the user than precision. Your system is a fascinating logic argument, but it wouldn't actually work, linguistically speaking, by using an alphabet.

Edit to add: the International phonetic alphabet has 107 letters, 57 diacritic marks, and four additional notes indicating stress, intonation, and other things that don't affect individual sounds but affect syllables. Math that up and you have what I believe is scientifically called a crap ton of individual cables

Edit the second: the whole operation is simpler once someone invents a magic mouth spell variant; you can reprogram what it says with a command word or program it to repeat what it heard since the last time the command was spoken. But that's a terribly intrusive thing to do to your Super creative idea, as it eliminates the need for such extensive logic deductions which are, as I've said, simply amazing.

[Kemptock]

If you can say it, the magic mouth can repeat it. Therefore if you can take the form of something that can create nano-second long ultrasonic pulses, you could vastly upgrade the speed of a network of these.

I guess if you are allowed an exhalation or inhalation as an utterance, then you have the fundamentals of a speaker. Chaining together magic mouths that react to small pressure changes with magic mouths that transmit nanosecond pings, then at the end magic mouths that exhale or inhale tiny amounts is basically creating a digital communication system. Anything you say at one end comes out the other.

"If input a and b are not emitting sound, emit sound" is a nand gate, which means you have the basic building blocks of binary logic. You can make any computer using such a construct.

Yes, Using "Alter Self" to introduce a variety of frequencies has been listed, but I didn't originally want to push things too much. Polymorph however is out of the question per RAW, since it states that "The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it can't speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech.", unlike True Polymorph ( Which is also optional, yet I didn't add since it's such a high level and already broken enough in it's wording as it is ), so finding a bipedal form of your size to change into which can make these pulses might prove challenging, although "Alter Self's" direct wording is that you decide the sound of your voice, without any other limitations. Although some people might disapprove if one were to say "I change the sound of my voice to be loud as a Supernova", so again, this is why.

But, we don't actually have to vocalize such a short message ourselves in the first place. We could input any message into a magic mouth, even "Beep", and order another magic mouth to activate as soon as that other magic mouth becomes audible. So now the speed of relay is as high as physically possible and far beyond anything even biologically possible. It should also be noted that only the messages themselves have a set speed ( During which they are delivered, and upon finishing, trigger other relays ), but that once finished, they carry over their 30 feet instantaneously. Since other relays don't actually have to wait for a sound wave to travel to them. They just instantly recognize when one has occurred within a 30 feet cube.

Also, I'm not exactly certain so I'll ask you - would it require two, or a trillion magic mouth enchantments to be activated by exhalations and inhalations in the full range of human voice?

[Kemptock]

Okay, so in English, all voiceless stops (p, K, t) are either aspirated or unaspirated. The 't' in 'top' and the 't' in 'stop' are different. Put a lit match in front of your mouth and shout stop. The flame barely flickers. But whisper top, and it's likely to go out. We don't even know we do it, but other languages do. It's insignificant to use but it is very important.

A similar difference is with voicing, except we notice this one. The difference between b and p is that one is voiced (voice box is relaxed). When you whisper, you can't tell them apart, because you can't voice a whisper. S and z, t and d, K and g are further examples.

Nasalization. Let's head over to French for this one. Stationne, à verb Form of Parking, pronounces N like we do. But station, which is used like we do, does not pronounce the N. Instead, it nasales the vowel Ô. English does this automatically with all vowels before an N or M; because it's automatic, we don't notice, same with aspiration. But in French, it's a huge deal; failure to do this correctly just screams you're not a native French speaker.

I could give you rules like this forever; the phonetic alphabet comes close to duplicating this, but also has diacritics marks that you have to account for which change the sound (aspirated t looks like 't to the power of h', for instance). But the average English speaker has no idea how many sounds it makes that have nothing to to with spelling. Just trust me on this: an alphabet will not work. The phonetic alphabet might, plus letter variations for diacritics marks, if your World happens to have one.

To make an alphabet work you would have to spell every word. Might as well use morse code.

Of course, with magic, it's usually 'good enough'. A command word can be whispered, or shouted, with change more than simply volume, but they're accepted nonetheless. But that's as much intent of the user than precision. Your system is a fascinating logic argument, but it wouldn't actually work, linguistically speaking, by using an alphabet.

Edit to add: the International phonetic alphabet has 107 letters, 57 diacritic marks, and four additional notes indicating stress, intonation, and other things that don't affect individual sounds but affect syllables. Math that up and you have what I believe is scientifically called a crap ton of individual cables

I wouldn't be so sure about the lit match as a non-native speaker, unless I wanted to sound more native, I might just as often verbalize it as "Ssssss-TOP!" rather than some accented British "Stahp". Now I understand all that you're saying, I understand the model if made in English will make words sound like a broken first generation immigrant's or a mediocre text reader on the internet rather than native speech, but I'm not really seeing much that would prevent two people from perfectly understanding what's being said, still.

Is there any non extremely rare example of a message that one could send to someone else with only those letters and would make no sense whatsoever? I'm currently just seeing something like "Bring me a bowl of fruit" as just being sent as "Bring me Eh Baul of Froot" yet still completely understandable in sounds. Unless the issue is more about what the magic mouth enchantments will recognize, but their triggers are not set though voice ,rather by detailing a circumstance which can be "as general as you'd like", which as you say, works with magic.

Also, if we were creating a phonetic alphabetical system, I must add - those would be what is scientifically called a crap ton of incredibly thin cables, all bundled up into a single cable container no thicker than a rope! Heh. It would cost 1680gp per cable rather than 260gp, which isn't too much, since the good thing with cables is that they are a one-time investment. The enchantment costs the same, we just need to pay for length in cable material, which can made from cheap durable materials, and is also extremely thin so hardly takes much material even so.

[Mjolnirbear]

Yes. Just voicing and stress.

Desert. - dezERT. To leave the army without leave.
Desert - DEzert. A dry place.
Dessert - dezERT. A sugary treat.

Tied or tide becomes died when voiced. Bye becomes pie when not.

These are common, incredibly common, because we use voicing to tell words apart.


In addition, another snag.
We have an H sound. The French do not. Nor do they have a 'th' sound, neither voiced (the) or unvoiced (thick). You notice this when you hear a French speaker. They 'ze' instead of 'the' and 'taught' instead of 'thought' and otel instead of hotel. A native French speaker struggles with these because they're insignificant, unimportant, irrelevant to all the language rules he knows, but to us, it's extremely noticeable.

Spanish speakers can't start a word with 's' before a stop. When you hear them try to say skip, school, stop, they will actually say eschool, eskip, estop.

English speakers can't start a word with Sr. There is no English word that starts that way. When an English speaker tries to say Sri Lanka, they say 'shree'.

Mandarin can't tell 'R' and 'L' apart. Cue 'engrish'.

So when our Spanish speaking goblin uses your system to speak English to an English elf, they get nonsense words.

Linguistics is complicated. Most of these rules are only known subconsciously. Now add grammar rules. It's a Welsh goblin speaking to the English elf, and instead of subject-verb-object sentences, you get, say, object-subject-verb.

Imagine Yoga. "when you reach 1000 years you won't look good either" became "when 1000 years you reach look as good you will not" (true fact, the grammar is Yiddish). Add a Chinese accent and years, reach, look and will become garbled.

Linguistics is my button. Lol. None of this really matter except in an academic way. Completely derailing the thread and it's purpose. I know it wouldn't work, but the fact that it won't is both pointless, and probably handwavable "because magic" and "who cares".

[Kemptock]

Yes. Just voicing and stress.

Desert. - dezERT. To leave the army without leave.
Desert - DEzert. A dry place.
Dessert - dezERT. A sugary treat.

Tied or tide becomes died when voiced. Bye becomes pie when not.

These are common, incredibly common, because we use voicing to tell words apart.


In addition, another snag.
We have an H sound. The French do not. Nor do they have a 'th' sound, neither voiced (the) or unvoiced (thick). You notice this when you hear a French speaker. They 'ze' instead of 'the' and 'taught' instead of 'thought' and otel instead of hotel. A native French speaker struggles with these because they're insignificant, unimportant, irrelevant to all the language rules he knows, but to us, it's extremely noticeable.

Spanish speakers can't start a word with 's' before a stop. When you hear them try to say skip, school, stop, they will actually say eschool, eskip, estop.

English speakers can't start a word with Sr. There is no English word that starts that way. When an English speaker tries to say Sri Lanka, they say 'shree'.

Mandarin can't tell 'R' and 'L' apart. Cue 'engrish'.

So when our Spanish speaking goblin uses your system to speak English to an English elf, they get nonsense words.

Linguistics is complicated. Most of these rules are only known subconsciously. Now add grammar rules. It's a Welsh goblin speaking to the English elf, and instead of subject-verb-object sentences, you get, say, object-subject-verb.

Imagine Yoga. "when you reach 1000 years you won't look good either" became "when 1000 years you reach look as good you will not" (true fact, the grammar is Yiddish). Add a Chinese accent and years, reach, look and will become garbled.

Linguistics is my button. Lol. None of this really matter except in an academic way. Completely derailing the thread and it's purpose. I know it wouldn't work, but the fact that it won't is both pointless, and probably handwavable "because magic" and "who cares".

Even if someone heard "There's an oasis in the dezERT", isn't it still incredibly clear in context ( And likewise for any other word which is somewhat "off" in the sentence, Oh-ah-sees or whatever ) and on the spelling alone what the message is? As for "Dessert", at least as non-super-native-sensitive-British-speaker, the actual sound seems to be much more closer, exactly the same as "Dizert". As for the language differences, are you saying that this is only a problem between different language speakers ( Which exists without telecommunication too ), different racial speakers ( Which would also exist normally if they can't pronounce something )? I'm not really following, but also don't really want to waste you time.

It will matter to me if it doesn't work or if the system would require different linguistical rules to program properly. I'm pretty sure the triggers are not an issue, since they react to a general audible circumstance. Not just "because magic", rather because it is RAW magic, that they can comprehend general audible conditions, like a "human translator" or speech software or however you want to think of it.

So that leaves the output, the messages that we put for each letter and get transmitted over. As much as I try, I mean, record yourself with a phone saying "Aaaaa" and "Bbbb" and "Ayyyy" ( I in English, but will actually correspond to Y in the enchantment, so that we can enchant "I" with "bEE" like sound ), and "Rrrr". and "nnn" and "ggg" ( As in gold, while J sounds will be assigned to J ), I'm still getting words which are coherent to anyone who knows their rough spelling.

Now play those in sequence to get "Bring". Now instead go for "Bribe" ( Which will be B-R-Y-B ). Now add some "dd" somewhere and do "Bride", or do Bread ( B-R-E-D ). You aren't subconsciously vocalizing anything right now, you're just playing the recorded inputs. You have no control beyond "pressing the letters" which then convey a singular input, just like the Magic Mouths. Broken English? yes. But did you hear "Cleopatra" or "Kirin birin karkarkroki Xenu Dira" at any point? I don't think so. So could someone use your letter recordings by playing them to play something like "Bring bread" or "Bring Bribe, lots of cash" and have someone on the other side understand them? With only some times in which they have to say "Ddddddeeeeee zee ert, HOT, H-O-T, S-A-N ( SUN ), S-E-N-D ( Sand )" to clarify when there's some absent-mindedness?

Two people, of the same race, who speak the exact same form of English. Just how major the situation is? I mean, I know for a fact from doing pure letter recordings and playing in sequences in real life that it's not exactly like hearing Chinese. Regardless though, thanks for the feedback, it does make sense that for precision communication, someone might op for a more accurate phonetic system.

[Mjolnirbear]

Let's start with T. We pronounce it Tee. But you can't use Tee, because then Tara becomes tiara.

So you try to narrow it down. You want something more like Tuh, but very short, and you want the vowel as neutral as possible. It still doesn't work. You get a glottal stop. Tuh-ara,or T'ara. The speaker will say Tara, and the magic mouth is trying to get T'ara. So it fails to interpret it. But suppose it doesn't. The listener heads T'ara. Close enough, you think.

But a glottal stop is rare outside certain British accents. You typically get it when one word follows another with vowels, like 'a eagle'. Which anyone normally corrects to 'an eagle'. So the listener thinks you have two words: Tuh ara. Maybe they think you mean 'to Ara' and wonder if it's a place or person.

How do you say azure? It's a voiced soft J sound actually. But when you tried to reproduce the sound, you used Jay. Zhay just isn't in your 26 letters. Neither is Sh. Or Ch. Or The. Or That. No combination of letters produce these sounds. The? It's the most common word in our language. On the other hand, X is a combination of sounds, C and S, except when it's a Z. N and G together do not make NG. So your magic mouth would say buh ur i nuh guh i nuh guh, which is not at all like bringing. Note the I sound. That could be ih, ee, eye, or whatever depending on how you pronounced it when you coded it.

The IPA tries to capture every sound perfectly. They put tons of work into it. But IPA has a lot of overlap, and the notations are complicated, and it took decades to develop, and we still are incapable of saying à consonant without the vowel sound.

But assumed that it worked. You put in 107 cables times 58 cables times 4 cables to account for all known possible human sound.

Now do all of that again for someone with a lisp, or who stutters. Add the theoretical non-human unique sounds.

It's simply not how language works, your way. It's impossible to turn recordings of letter sounds into recognizable speech without voice-editing software cat can capture the waves of 't' without contamination by other letters.

Do me a favour. Say t. Then say stop. Takes pretty much the same time, right? But the latter contains three extra sounds. Saying them selerate and then adding them together would not sound like stop. Now try discriminatory.

It works as an alphabet if you spell each word. It works in binary the same way. It does not produce speech. You need actual recordings of each word, which is how it's done today. Google doesn't spell it out. It reads the word, then finds a recording of that word, and half the time Alexi or Siri still won't understand you.

[Kemptock]

Let's start with T. We pronounce it Tee. But you can't use Tee, because then Tara becomes tiara.

So you try to narrow it down. You want something more like Tuh, but very short, and you want the vowel as neutral as possible. It still doesn't work. You get a glottal stop. Tuh-ara,or T'ara. The speaker will say Tara, and the magic mouth is trying to get T'ara. So it fails to interpret it. But suppose it doesn't. The listener heads T'ara. Close enough, you think.

But a glottal stop is rare outside certain British accents. You typically get it when one word follows another with vowels, like 'a eagle'. Which anyone normally corrects to 'an eagle'. So the listener thinks you have two words: Tuh ara. Maybe they think you mean 'to Ara' and wonder if it's a place or person.

How do you say azure? It's a voiced soft J sound actually. But when you tried to reproduce the sound, you used Jay. Zhay just isn't in your 26 letters. Neither is Sh. Or Ch. Or The. Or That. No combination of letters produce these sounds. The? It's the most common word in our language. On the other hand, X is a combination of sounds, C and S, except when it's a Z. N and G together do not make NG. So your magic mouth would say buh ur i nuh guh i nuh guh, which is not at all like bringing. Note the I sound. That could be ih, ee, eye, or whatever depending on how you pronounced it when you coded it.

The IPA tries to capture every sound perfectly. They put tons of work into it. But IPA has a lot of overlap, and the notations are complicated, and it took decades to develop, and we still are incapable of saying à consonant without the vowel sound.

But assumed that it worked. You put in 107 cables times 58 cables times 4 cables to account for all known possible human sound.

Now do all of that again for someone with a lisp, or who stutters. Add the theoretical non-human unique sounds.

It's simply not how language works, your way. It's impossible to turn recordings of letter sounds into recognizable speech without voice-editing software cat can capture the waves of 't' without contamination by other letters.

Do me a favour. Say t. Then say stop. Takes pretty much the same time, right? But the latter contains three extra sounds. Saying them selerate and then adding them together would not sound like stop. Now try discriminatory.

It works as an alphabet if you spell each word. It works in binary the same way. It does not produce speech. You need actual recordings of each word, which is how it's done today. Google doesn't spell it out. It reads the word, then finds a recording of that word, and half the time Alexi or Siri still won't understand you.

If I were going for "Azure" I'd probably just opt for "A-zoor" since there's really only full word that resembles it. And "The" seems completely identical for me to "De". But again I'm not a native speaker, while it seems as if "X" would then simply be handled as "Eks" by the letters, and I couldn't follow the bribing example. "Buh" seems right to me, as extremely short as possible. "Ur" would be to me more o a guttural sound, like going "Brrrrrrrr" from cold, the vibrating "Brrrrrr". ( Without the B ). As for the I, as specified, the letter should actually be "Y" when you put the message of how English people say "I". In the "I" letter I'd put the "Ee" like "Bee"., while Nuh to me seem like it would be more recorded as the beginning of going "Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnope!" rather than "nuh".

But yes, I can see things might not be ideal, I'll just defer to you on this. And when I said I tested recordings, I don't mean google translate or Siri. I'm not typing words into any speech software, I'm literally recording sounds into a recorder. As in saying what you call an extremely short "Buh" ( Which to me sounds like a perfect milisecond "B" ) and so forth, into a pure recorder like you have in a windows 98 computer, and then playing those sounds in sequence to form words with them, and getting things which seem mostly understandable. Maybe because I'm not a native English speaker, I'm not doing them with an accent/or some uncontrolled slips that you would expect some British guy to, and therefore I'm not entirely sync with you, on top of not being a linguist.

But again, it at least as I said, I can see that it is unclear in many times, and I'll defer to you on the subject. I guess it will have to be spelled out or invested with more gold for precision ( Which if it's actually 107 TIMES 58 and then times 4, is going to be 248,240, which I guess eliminates a precision system for most low-level characters and regular individuals. But being half the price of a palace or keep, probably actually still affordable as a one-time investment for kingdoms or a merchant guild or just a spellcaster with an infinite gold generator trick, or anyone who can take a trip to the Elemental Plane of Earth, while everyone else will settle for spelling or Swift Binary. Or making out the words ). However, I doubt that adapting the program for someone with a lisp would be a priority in the campaign heh, academia aside, and perhaps different races will need their own recordings. I mean, it's already abundantly clear that Aarakocra or Goblins might need a unique model in the first place.

[Kane0]

This is fantastic, I’m getting lessons in both engineering and linguistics all at once!

[Mortis_Elrod]

This is fantastic, I’m getting lessons in both engineering and linguistics all at once!

Isn’t it great? 10/10 would thread again.

[Azgeroth]

you totally could make a computer with this system.

there are 7 kinds of logic gate, all but 1 require 2 inputs, that last 1 takes 1 input and inverts it..

i think where things will get tricky is in replicating micro processors, as they are basically super miniaturised circuits in their own right, but if you are permitted to use hair and sand grains, your rolling.. just need someone with small enough hands to make the thing.. (tiny spider familiar anyone?)

as for actually making the things (schematics and plans) a quick google of basic early computer circuitry should do just fine..

i would though squarely put this in the realm of artificers.. though you could make the backbone (core systems) on 24/7 with magic mouth, aside from auditory outputs, if you want anything visual you either need a very clever arcane lock shenanigans to reveal continuous flames (if you can persuade your DM to have prestidigitate effects permanent, you could make a tv!) which sounds squarely like the artificers bag.. or maybe transmutation wizards??

the next problem... how in the hell did your character just re-create several hundred years of very advanced math to the point they could by themselves, create computer science??? solve that one and you are golden my friends...

if your DM says technology doesnt exist in DnD (Faerun) ask them about sigil...

[Saeviomage]

Yes, Using "Alter Self" to introduce a variety of frequencies has been listed, but I didn't originally want to push things too much. Polymorph however is out of the question per RAW, since it states that "The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it can't speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech.", unlike True Polymorph ( Which is also optional, yet I didn't add since it's such a high level and already broken enough in it's wording as it is ), so finding a bipedal form of your size to change into which can make these pulses might prove challenging, although "Alter Self's" direct wording is that you decide the sound of your voice, without any other limitations. Although some people might disapprove if one were to say "I change the sound of my voice to be loud as a Supernova", so again, this is why.

Well, you could combine glyph of warding with magic mouth to lift that restraint. It's just a shame you can't use the output of a magic mouth to sample another magic mouth...


But, we don't actually have to vocalize such a short message ourselves in the first place. We could input any message into a magic mouth, even "Beep", and order another magic mouth to activate as soon as that other magic mouth becomes audible. So now the speed of relay is as high as physically possible and far beyond anything even biologically possible. It should also be noted that only the messages themselves have a set speed ( During which they are delivered, and upon finishing, trigger other relays ), but that once finished, they carry over their 30 feet instantaneously. Since other relays don't actually have to wait for a sound wave to travel to them. They just instantly recognize when one has occurred within a 30 feet cube.

Speed of relay isn't what you want though. You want very short messages so you have bandwidth. If you want a processor, then you want it to magic mouths NOT making sound as half of your binary state. The shorter a sound your mouth is capable of, the higher the bandwidth of any component you make with it - the quicker it can switch between 'on' and 'off'


Also, I'm not exactly certain so I'll ask you - would it require two, or a trillion magic mouth enchantments to be activated by exhalations and inhalations in the full range of human voice?
Depends on how short an inhalation/exhalation you can get. If you can get short enough and rapid enough then one: you can synthesize any pressure change by chaining it extremely far above the maximum frequency you want to replicate.

Otherwise it depends on how good you want it to sound: but it's binary not linear. When someone talks about "8 bit sound", that is the count of mouths you would need to get that audio effect.

FWIW, you can still understand speech and get an indication of the speaker all the way down to 1 bit sound. It's horrible to listen to (it's staticy and scratchy), but it's doable.



i think where things will get tricky is in replicating micro processors, as they are basically super miniaturised circuits in their own right, but if you are permitted to use hair and sand grains, your rolling.. just need someone with small enough hands to make the thing.. (tiny spider familiar anyone?)

The main issue is that every logic gate requires another magic mouth... but since a given magic mouth can execute logic of arbitrary difficulty, you would't need to. You can potentially put the ENTIRE PROCESSOR in a single mouth, but you would need to be able to contain the whole processor's logic flow in your head, which might prove incredibly complex. However you can store some pretty complex logic there, stuff which would require hundreds of gates:

"If a creature says 'repeat message' and at the elapsed time after they have said that after the last time a creature said 'record message' the creature that said 'record message' was generating pressure from it's mouth, repeat your message"

I mean you could probably finesse the language, but that's basically a voice-activated message recording and playback system in a single mouth, expressed in english. Note that the spell doesn't require you to express the logic of your magic mouth in any way - it just behaves according to whatever trigger you choose.


as for actually making the things (schematics and plans) a quick google of basic early computer circuitry should do just fine..

i would though squarely put this in the realm of artificers.. though you could make the backbone (core systems) on 24/7 with magic mouth, aside from auditory outputs, if you want anything visual you either need a very clever arcane lock shenanigans to reveal continuous flames (if you can persuade your DM to have prestidigitate effects permanent, you could make a tv!) which sounds squarely like the artificers bag.. or maybe transmutation wizards??

the next problem... how in the hell did your character just re-create several hundred years of very advanced math to the point they could by themselves, create computer science??? solve that one and you are golden my friends...


There's not really a lot to solve. Science has never proceeded at a sedentary and steady pace. It was always a set of leaps and bounds. If anything, it's amazing that this hasn't already been done. Maybe it is? It would explain all the "DM-only tricks" that wizards always seem to get up to.

[jiriku]

With a more careful reading of arcane lock, I think we do have a challenge, although not the one I thought originally. However, it is a challenge that can be overcome.


Arcane Lock:You touch a closed door, window, gate, chest, or other entryway, and it becomes locked for the duration. You and the creatures you designate when you cast this spell can open the object normally. You can also set a password that, when spoken within 5 feet of the object, suppresses this spell for 1 minute.


A couple of elements here:

The spell must be cast on a container or entryway. It cannot be cast on a lock.

When the spell is cast, the item becomes locked. If it does not possess the capacity to be locked normally, presumably this is a magical locking force. If it does possess the capacity to be locked normally, I make the assumption (A) that its lock is magically actuated into its locked position and reinforced. Alternately, I can make the assumption (B) that the locking is always by magical force and not by use of a physical lock, even if one is present.

When a command word is spoken, the spell is SUPPRESSED. Note that the text does not say the item becomes unlocked, merely that the magic is suppressed and the object can be opened normally. But either (C) the lock is magically actuated into its open position so that the object can be "opened normally" or (D) no motion occurs.

We have four possible pairs of assumptions: A*C, A*D, B*C, B*D. I find A*C to be the most plausible interpretation, but B*D is also reasonable. A*D is a much narrower interpretation and I'll discard B*C as rather silly.

Under A*C, we have magically generated reciprocating motion. This is the most favorable interpretation and essentially jump-starts the industrial revolution.

Under A*D we have magically generated motion in only one direction. I can work with that by specifying that the lock is a vertically oriented power screw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rFHeLY3wtU) able to freely rotate, that locks the object in its UP position and unlocks it in its DOWN position. When arcane lock activates, the power screw makes an up-stroke. When arcane lock is suppressed, the power screw unscrews itself by the force of gravity. It is then in position to make another up-stroke when the spell reactivates. This is a little awkward to work with but we still have unidirectional motion and eventually the industrial revolution.

Under B*D we have to work much harder, but as you noted we have an object whose resistance to motion increases considerably. Let me think on that for a bit and see what I can come up with.

[Kemptock]

you totally could make a computer with this system.

there are 7 kinds of logic gate, all but 1 require 2 inputs, that last 1 takes 1 input and inverts it..

i think where things will get tricky is in replicating micro processors, as they are basically super miniaturised circuits in their own right, but if you are permitted to use hair and sand grains, your rolling.. just need someone with small enough hands to make the thing.. (tiny spider familiar anyone?)

as for actually making the things (schematics and plans) a quick google of basic early computer circuitry should do just fine..

i would though squarely put this in the realm of artificers.. though you could make the backbone (core systems) on 24/7 with magic mouth, aside from auditory outputs, if you want anything visual you either need a very clever arcane lock shenanigans to reveal continuous flames (if you can persuade your DM to have prestidigitate effects permanent, you could make a tv!) which sounds squarely like the artificers bag.. or maybe transmutation wizards??

the next problem... how in the hell did your character just re-create several hundred years of very advanced math to the point they could by themselves, create computer science??? solve that one and you are golden my friends...

if your DM says technology doesnt exist in DnD (Faerun) ask them about sigil...

You can make fully automatic, holographic displays with photorealistic quality as it stands, using thrice-fold programmed illusions. Just that due to the fact that much like a Magic Mouth message, they only play scripted performances once triggered, you'll need tens of thousands of castings to create even a basic screen, but again I did not include ideas such as that since I didn't want to include projects that were too outlandish, otherwise posters would focus on those and get angry that I'm posting unrealistic ( In most campaigns ) prospects for a player. Seeing as how even a 20th level pure caster could only make 6 programmed illusions a day, which gives him 2 permanent "pixels" of a single color, for a single stationary screen, not to mention all the Magic Mouth outputs it would take to create something that is basically a Windows display. Might take centuries.

In theory though, if already having infinite time or gold to try and make a "computer", then yeah you can make a full holographic display. You could create the basic "touch screen" by placing illusions that activate ( While all those who are deactivated are imperceptible until they are ) upon where your finger is on the hologram, you could create the computer mouse with illusions that respond to the visual circumstances of an actual mouse's movements, and so on, given unlimited time.

The most rudimentary form of 2D display with Programmed Illusions, with 100 "pixels" or so in black and white, ( Which you would need 200 for, and thrice-fold illusions for all of them ), would take 600 castings of Programmed Illusion, or 33 days. For a level 20 spellcaster. So if someone was already at endgame yet still playing and had that downtime, a possible endeavor, but gets more and more timely with even slightly more complexity to the display.

That is why I was trying to build a visual display with Arcane Lock. Which I did, it works, you don't need any continual flame or convincing or for an entryway to "move" for it to work. It works based on the principles explained, which is sloping "bowling lanes" for colored balls and Arcane Gates stopping them in the positions where they need to be to create a certain visual image. You just need to manually reset the small balls by picking it up what the device drops and dropping it back down the chute in every reset, but nothing that a familiar couldn't do.

And Arcane Lock on the other hand, can be cast 14,400 times in 8 hours by a 20th level Wizard with Spell Mastery.




With a more careful reading of arcane lock, I think we do have a challenge, although not the one I thought originally. However, it is a challenge that can be overcome.




A couple of elements here:

The spell must be cast on a container or entryway. It cannot be cast on a lock.

When the spell is cast, the item becomes locked. If it does not possess the capacity to be locked normally, presumably this is a magical locking force. If it does possess the capacity to be locked normally, I make the assumption (A) that its lock is magically actuated into its locked position and reinforced. Alternately, I can make the assumption (B) that the locking is always by magical force and not by use of a physical lock, even if one is present.

When a command word is spoken, the spell is SUPPRESSED. Note that the text does not say the item becomes unlocked, merely that the magic is suppressed and the object can be opened normally. But either (C) the lock is magically actuated into its open position so that the object can be "opened normally" or (D) no motion occurs.

We have four possible pairs of assumptions: A*C, A*D, B*C, B*D. I find A*C to be the most plausible interpretation, but B*D is also reasonable. A*D is a much narrower interpretation and I'll discard B*C as rather silly.

Under A*C, we have magically generated reciprocating motion. This is the most favorable interpretation and essentially jump-starts the industrial revolution.

Under A*D we have magically generated motion in only one direction. I can work with that by specifying that the lock is a vertically oriented power screw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rFHeLY3wtU) able to freely rotate, that locks the object in its UP position and unlocks it in its DOWN position. When arcane lock activates, the power screw makes an up-stroke. When arcane lock is suppressed, the power screw unscrews itself by the force of gravity. It is then in position to make another up-stroke when the spell reactivates. This is a little awkward to work with but we still have unidirectional motion and eventually the industrial revolution.

Under B*D we have to work much harder, but as you noted we have an object whose resistance to motion increases considerably. Let me think on that for a bit and see what I can come up with.

True, can't be cast on a lock as I've expressed in the post. I also thought long ago about lock mechanism movements, but if you post something on these forums which is based on a ruling rather than pure RAW, you get torn to shreds. Any method must be viable based on RAW alone and all DM rulings are automatically assumed to be antagonistic to the player. I will say though, B*D is actually the more likely scenario, if one were to speculate about things like that from the perspective of magic.

Check out the description of the School of Abjuration ( To which Arcane Lock belongs ) in the PHB and then take a look at every Abjuration spell available. Unlike Transmutation, which is the school dedicated to affecting matter directly, no Abjuration spell ever really alters the environment in a direct way. Whenever it does add something to the environment ( Glyph of Warding, Globe of Invulnerability, Imprisonment, Antimagic Field ), it always acts only through it's own magical energy. It doesn't shift the state of matter directly. Imprisonment's "Chaining" might be the only notable exception, in which the spell creates chains, firmly rooted in the ground, which hold the target in place. But we still have no idea how those magical chains made out of thin air interact with physics, since for example the spell says that "The target is restrained until the spell ends, and it can't move or be moved by any means until then.". Now, one might summarize, that if you were to cast the spell on say a creature standing on some dungeon floor, and then bring a powered drill and dislodge the areas of floor those chains are attached to, then he'd be able to move with the chains and the bit of floor attached to them dragging behind, but we know it isn't the case. It probably just remains frozen in place regardless of the chains.

So aside from that, based on almost all Abjuration spells, which are in fact magical force-fields ( Globe of Invulnerability, Prismatic Wall ), it would make sense for a DM to rule for B*D and not for moving matter as if it were Transmutation or another school, when no such movement was specified. And it is after all called "Arcane Lock" moreso than "Reinforce Lock" or the like. For a universally accepted method, B*D surely must be solved, it seems.

[Easy_Lee]

This is great. By the strictest of RAW and with no additional assumptions made, one can make a see / hear earring for 20 gold that says "see" if a creature other than you is seen moving, and "hear" if a creature other than you is heard. That not only tells you when something is nearby, but also lets you know if it's invisible (hear only) or silent (see only).

I wonder how much nobles will pay for intercom with a switch. Probably a lot more than 260 gold plus materials (trigger sounds upon hearing them uttered by something other than the magic mouth when the switch is up).

I don't think it's a stretch to say that the mouth can hear and see anything that can be heard or seen. But if a DM wanted to balance it, I'd set the opposed stealth DC equal to the caster's stat. However, that would be homebrew.

[8wGremlin]

This is great. By the strictest of RAW and with no additional assumptions made, one can make a see / hear earring for 20 gold that says "see" if a creature other than you is seen moving, and "hear" if a creature other than you is heard. That not only tells you when something is nearby, but also lets you know if it's invisible (hear only) or silent (see only).

I wonder how much nobles will pay for intercom with a switch. Probably a lot more than 260 gold plus materials (trigger sounds upon hearing them uttered by something other than the magic mouth when the switch is up).

I don't think it's a stretch to say that the mouth can hear and see anything that can be heard or seen. But if a DM wanted to balance it, I'd set the opposed stealth DC equal to the caster's stat. However, that would be homebrew.


You would probably want to have them round the other way, as having "see,hear" every turn would be a nightmare.
However if you had them set up inversely, they would only fire on the exceptions.
detecting "invisible" and "silent" when they respectively triggered.

[Easy_Lee]

You would probably want to have them round the other way, as having "see,hear" every turn would be a nightmare.
However if you had them set up inversely, they would only fire on the exceptions.
detecting "invisible" and "silent" when they respectively triggered.

Or, just take the earring off when you can see what you're looking for.

[Saeviomage]

Since the logic is arbitrary, you could make a magic mouth announce "detected" when it detects "the most recent thing I asked you to look for or listen for".

[Moosoculars]

Enemy detector

A thin wire which can be slipped under a door, through a key hole or a hole you drill. It counts the number of monsters it can "See"

If there is a creature within 30', not including "Party" count 1
If there are two creatures with '30, not including "Party" AND message 1 counted 1 say 2
etc

Can be improved by speaking the types of creature as well.

[Saeviomage]

Enemy detector

A thin wire which can be slipped under a door, through a key hole or a hole you drill. It counts the number of monsters it can "See"

If there is a creature within 30', not including "Party" count 1
If there are two creatures with '30, not including "Party" AND message 1 counted 1 say 2
etc

Can be improved by speaking the types of creature as well.


"If you have said beep less times than the number of creatures that were in line of sight at the red end of the piece of wire you are on when a creature holding the wire said 'detect', say beep"

If you want creature types or numbers read out, you need to make multiple mouths.

[Tetrasodium]

This is genius. And I would straight-up ban it.

RAW aside, this isn't the intended function of the spell. I'd let it utter a command word (activate a magic item) or allow your ideas for size come into play. But I'd put a full stop onto letting one magic mouth activate another.

That's not to say it's not creative and well-thought out. But I would not allow it to go as far as this logically takes you.

As a side note, you can simply use Morse Code with a binary setup rather than an alphabet setup.

Another side note is that I'm certain my eyes glazed over at the alphabet part, but I'm not certain it would work in less you spelled every word. English has many more sounds than letters: there are two 't' sounds, two 'p' sounds, two 'th' sounds that have nothing to do with the letters, an 'ng' sound you can't even pronounce as an English speaker on its own, and lets not even talk about nasal sounds, voiceless sounds, stressed sounds and the schwa.

Then you have accents. Régional variations. Rolled 'l' and 'r' or something else.

Perhaps you did Account for it. As I said, my eyes glazed over; my superficial knowledge of programming would fit in two bits and it was sorely tested today lol.


I know this is an older thread, but english has 44 of them (https://www.thoughtco.com/sounds-in-english-language-3111166) It's hardly an impossibly large number. text to speech programs & modern voice recognition(siri/cortana/alexa/google's voice thing/dragon) all make use of those sounds rather than recording every possible word & including that gigantic file. Given the "quality" of audio from early audio recordings & communication devices, it would not need to be perfect & people would learn to speak like their device needs quickly enough. Back in the day, PDA's had their own written input language (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graffiti_(Palm_OS)) & it was popular enough that you can put it on modern devices (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.access_company.graffiti_pro). in the end though, the difference between "send help olc invasion" and "send help orc invasion is pretty minimal" Since you are already putting 44 of them on, including a couple extra to differentiate things like how L & R get munged by different dialects would just be a matter of deciding how important it is. The idea that people wouldn't learn how to speak to their cable is unreasonable as long as it was a useful oer important enough implementation to warrant it

[Project_Mayhem]

As much as I like programming in things that weren't intended for coding, I think the biggest RAW counter to this is the DC of the Programming Skill check to invent the entire discipline from scratch with no prior innovation and invention to iterate from. 50? 60 maybe? Assuming you can make it untrained :smallamused:

[Spyderson]

Could we make vending machines of a sort with this?

Say 8 small boxes with glass doors to display what's inside.
Each box with a unique arcane locked password.
A coinbox with a magic mouth inside it is affixed to the side of each box.
The trigger for the magic mouth is a gold/silver/ copper coin entering the box through the coin slot.
When the correct amount is entered the mouth whispers the password for the lockbox.
The corresponding box is unlocked.
Customer retrieves their desired item.

Could probably be optimized a lot. ie. Make the hinge for the box at the top so the door closes after the customer takes their item.

Edit1:reformatted to make clearer

Edit:2 i'm pretty sure with a trap door lid you could even make an arcane lock/magic mouth top feeding hopper with a 1 minute delay so the box refils automatically? I'm away from my books right now to read over the spells again and draw any plans so I'm not 100% on how it'd work.

[JoeJ]

The biggest glitch I see with this idea is that the alphabet won't work; you'd have to use phonemes to get understandable speech. A wizard who doesn't think of that is not going to be able to accomplish much.

A repeating Arcane Lock door is pretty easy. Just design the door so that the weight of whatever is behind it pushes it open, and then a spring pulls it closed again after whatever it was falls through. After a minute of being closed, the spell is effective again and you can put something else behind it, ready to drop next time. Build a series of doors and chutes with the proper delay triggers and you should be able to refill your traps (or whatever) from a central holding bin.

Combining this with my house rule that allows objects to go through a Teleportation Circle, I'm seeing a way to get vast quantities of grain into a city and sort it into different bins for distribution.

[Aaron Underhand]

In volume 2 of his book "Winning Ways" John Conway explains how to take the "game of life" (which he invented) and make a Turing machine, capable of being programmed and doing arbitrary computation

This is a very useful step-by-step guide into make a general purpose stored program computer from Magic mouth.

Historically one of the driving forces for such computational engines was the need for Navigation and Ballistic tables for the military. Remember the prize for solving the Longitude problem? Such a device would have many applications, even without anything other than auditory read out of results

While a "small number" (thousands) of transistors magic mouths can make a simple computer that will far exceed human calculation, do remember just how many transistors are in your smartphone and watch....


Yes I'm old enough to remember when a 7 transistor radio was a marketing slogan (so much better than 5...)
However there is this thing called Moore's Law, and the number of transistors on a single integrated circuit has roughly doubled, every 18 months since the things were invented. My old BBC micro had a processor called a 6502 in it. They named it for the number of transistors in the Central Processing Unit chip. These days your phone probably has more than 64 Billion transistors in it, so 640 billion gold pieces to replicate in Magic Mouths... and people say there is nothing to spend your gold on in 5E

[Waterdeep Merch]

This is a really cool thought exercise. Even without going down this huge rabbit hole of advanced computing and holographic communication, I've gotten ideas for simple programming functions that are useful for everyday adventuring. I'd recommend any would-be wizard read through this if only to demonstrate what intelligent application of even modest spells can do.

For all the awesome advanced stuff, the only thing I'm having trouble figuring out is automated data storage and recovery (excuse me if I just missed it, there was a lot to take in). Arcane locks seem to be the best key, but those are, at best, binary states (locked or unlocked), meaning you'd need an absolutely massive array of them to store data of any sort. Several spring-loaded hinge traps containing water, hovering over a large observable "hard drive" that itself has hinge traps in every subsequent hole so that the data can be erased as desired, is my best thought. Can we do better?

[Aaron Underhand]

This is a really cool thought exercise. Even without going down this huge rabbit hole of advanced computing and holographic communication, I've gotten ideas for simple programming functions that are useful for everyday adventuring. I'd recommend any would-be wizard read through this if only to demonstrate what intelligent application of even modest spells can do.

For all the awesome advanced stuff, the only thing I'm having trouble figuring out is automated data storage and recovery (excuse me if I just missed it, there was a lot to take in). Arcane locks seem to be the best key, but those are, at best, binary states (locked or unlocked), meaning you'd need an absolutely massive array of them to store data of any sort. Several spring-loaded hinge traps containing water, hovering over a large observable "hard drive" that itself has hinge traps in every subsequent hole so that the data can be erased as desired, is my best thought. Can we do better?

For a very simple single memory cell you need three functions:

Write binary 1
Write binary 0
Read state

A straightforward memory cell itself is two Magic mouths, each has one the the instructions:

"if the last write signal you heard was a 1 and the read signal asks 'what state are you in' say 1"
"If the last write signal you heard was a 0 and the read signal asks 'what state are you in' say 0"

You can optimize this by just using one magic mouth to say 1 and assuming no answer to a query means a zero

[JoeJ]

You can optimize this by just using one magic mouth to say 1 and assuming no answer to a query means a zero

Which can be dangerous because sometimes no answer means that either the query or the answer was not received.

[Waterdeep Merch]

For a very simple single memory cell you need three functions:

Write binary 1
Write binary 0
Read state

A straightforward memory cell itself is two Magic mouths, each has one the the instructions:

"if the last write signal you heard was a 1 and the read signal asks 'what state are you in' say 1"
"If the last write signal you heard was a 0 and the read signal asks 'what state are you in' say 0"

You can optimize this by just using one magic mouth to say 1 and assuming no answer to a query means a zero

Can MM remember what it last did like that, though? I was under the impression that it couldn't, and could only perform tasks that it was already programmed to do at creation.

If it can, there's no problem at all- you don't even need binary, just use different frequencies/sounds for a more complex language, which would certainly have a brevity advantage over binary given that everything essentially runs at the speed by which anything can be conveyed and heard via sound.

Theoretically you could simply abuse the 10 minute timer to begin but not finish your communications until the end of it, then have a long circuit where the data travels by sound in a loop, with recall nodes monitoring the whole thing. I'd be wary of storing important information like that, though. It's essentially RAM.

[Aaron Underhand]

Which can be dangerous because sometimes no answer means that either the query or the answer was not received.

I agree there is some likely failure rate. Modern day ram is optimised to use single transistor designs, and forward error correction codes to make an error correcting memory of the desired reliability. Error correction circuits are probably a 5% over head after the 50% reduction from dropping from two transistors to one....

[dreast]

I refuse to consider any magic system that isn’t Turing complete!

[Tetrasodium]

Can MM remember what it last did like that, though? I was under the impression that it couldn't, and could only perform tasks that it was already programmed to do at creation.

If it can, there's no problem at all- you don't even need binary, just use different frequencies/sounds for a more complex language, which would certainly have a brevity advantage over binary given that everything essentially runs at the speed by which anything can be conveyed and heard via sound.

Theoretically you could simply abuse the 10 minute timer to begin but not finish your communications until the end of it, then have a long circuit where the data travels by sound in a loop, with recall nodes monitoring the whole thing. I'd be wary of storing important information like that, though. It's essentially RAM.

two of them & since we are talking about programming basically, do !IF (not if)
"unless you have heard zero since the last time you heard the word status and$write1Signal has also occurred since then respond to status by saying one"
vice versa for storing zero.


In all honesty though, Turing had huge resources & a team on top of working on a number of things like Gottfried Leibniz 1689 binary invention that was too much for the gears he was limited to. not only that, Turing was trying to crack the enigma cipher encryption. If you have not seen it before, The imitation game (https://www.netflix.com/watch/70295172?trackId=13752289&tctx=0%2C0%2C509d47205a333a5204bd69f35342ba2a5093d dff%3Ac3e2a9788a86a8bf58510901109e86c02e185cbc%2C% 2C) covers a lot of it kinda nicely

[tuesdayscoming]

This is an extremely exciting project. Thanks to you and the other contributors for bringing Magic Mouth's potential to my attention and for all the wonderful thought that your observations have generated so far.

Regarding the immobility of Programmed Illusions, Demiplane seems like extreme overkill for gaining access to your workstation. It strikes me that building your Programmed Illusion console inside a portable hole might allow you access to a "stationary" work space most anywhere you'd like to go. Granted, the hole has limited space; considering Mouth's lack of restrictions on item size, however, we should be able to fit quite a bit of tech inside a single hole.

Unless, of course, this would impede some function of the system that I've overlooked? Granted, depending on where you open the hole, the devices inside may not be within 30' of truly stationary (not in portable hole) containers. Still, we could probably create some fascinating devices contained entirely within the hole.

Perhaps the hole doesn't work the way I think it does. If it does, though, I think there's some neat potential in the idea.

[Aaron Underhand]

two of them & since we are talking about programming basically, do !IF (not if)
"unless you have heard zero since the last time you heard the word status and$write1Signal has also occurred since then respond to status by saying one"
vice versa for storing zero.


In all honesty though, Turing had huge resources & a team on top of working on a number of things like Gottfried Leibniz 1689 binary invention that was too much for the gears he was limited to. not only that, Turing was trying to crack the enigma cipher encryption. If you have not seen it before, The imitation game (https://www.netflix.com/watch/70295172?trackId=13752289&tctx=0%2C0%2C509d47205a333a5204bd69f35342ba2a5093d dff%3Ac3e2a9788a86a8bf58510901109e86c02e185cbc%2C% 2C) covers a lot of it kinda nicely

Turing's paper of 1936 "On Computable Numbers, with an Application to the Entscheidungsproblem" is the definition of a "Turing machine". It predates electronic computers and the code cracking in the second world war, and is a work of genius much like Ada Lovelace's conception of programs for the Analytical Engine.

Both of these, I submit, are examples of how a sufficiently creative mage with access to magic mouth could plausibly research and build the "machines" we are discussing

Edited to add: The paper is available online, and the definition of a computable machine is reasonably accessible. The biography "Alan Turing: The Enigma of Intelligence" contains much more detail than the film. I was also lucky enough to catch Derek Jacobi performing on stage as Turing in "Breaking the Code" in the 1980s - a play which contains a soliloquy on the beauty of mathematics, and the particular insight Turing had.

[Beechgnome]

Posts this long are usually a case of diminishing returns after the first few graphs. This was totally worth it.

I wouldn't disallow it per se, but I don't think I'm going to let players in on it. I think a neat story hook would be to have an inventor develop this technology, have it stolen, and have the party try to both: get it back and figure out how it works.

[Waterdeep Merch]

two of them & since we are talking about programming basically, do !IF (not if)
"unless you have heard zero since the last time you heard the word status and$write1Signal has also occurred since then respond to status by saying one"
vice versa for storing zero.
Ah, of course! It's exactly how binary works, I'm not sure why I was skipping over it.

For communication lines, I'm kind of amused that you've got essentially two methods- one works off frequencies and sound, the other off of mouth movement and sight. So the frequencies would work best above ground so that you could use wires to transmit over a longer distance, being cheaper and easier to produce due to not needing as many node bunches. Meanwhile, the sight cords would require clear 'cords' and a light source, like continual flame, running throughout and would be best buried underground a bit- more expensive and fiddly by a long shot, but since it's built on sight it should move much faster.

So you either do telephone poles or fiber optics.

[Renduaz]

Ah, of course! It's exactly how binary works, I'm not sure why I was skipping over it.

For communication lines, I'm kind of amused that you've got essentially two methods- one works off frequencies and sound, the other off of mouth movement and sight. So the frequencies would work best above ground so that you could use wires to transmit over a longer distance, being cheaper and easier to produce due to not needing as many node bunches. Meanwhile, the sight cords would require clear 'cords' and a light source, like continual flame, running throughout and would be best buried underground a bit- more expensive and fiddly by a long shot, but since it's built on sight it should move much faster.

So you either do telephone poles or fiber optics.


Both work at the same speed. Magic Mouth doesn't actually "hear" or "see" anything, nor does it react to sound waves or light. That's not the spell's description. Magic Mouth is better conceived of as an omniscient deity in it's own 30 feet range. As soon as an audible or visual condition merely occurs within it's vicinity, it is instantaneously aware of it, per spell description. Neither sound waves nor light need to reach the enchanted object, it doesn't have any sound or sight receptors. It's an enchantment that immediately knows when its triggering circumstance has been fulfilled, wherever it may be in the radius..

[Waterdeep Merch]

Both work at the same speed. Magic Mouth doesn't actually "hear" or "see" anything, nor does it react to sound waves or light. That's not the spell's description. Magic Mouth is better conceived of as an omniscient deity in it's own 30 feet range. As soon as an audible or visual condition merely occurs within it's vicinity, it is instantaneously aware of it, per spell description. Neither sound waves nor light need to reach the enchanted object, it doesn't have any sound or sight receptors. It's an enchantment that immediately knows when its triggering circumstance has been fulfilled, wherever it may be in the radius..
That's kind of insane from an information processing perspective. It's quantum computation, capable of instantaneous calculation. Once in place, you could leapfrog our real world development. From medieval stasis to science fiction in a generation.

Now I'm wondering how a fantasy world would develop if someone figured out programming like this, especially if it bypassed the renaissance and industrial revolution. Theoretically this would take the place of the renaissance and kickstart it, with a much faster take, but what about industry? Perhaps the need for standardization would take hold relatively fast with the spread of rapid information gathering and computation, thus leading to higher intelligence in communities that would reliably discover industry on their own given enough time. The spread could be rocky- intelligent but belligerent forces like orcs, goblinoids, kobolds, dragons, drow, illithids, etc. would likely suffer at the hands of magical programming and communication once adventurers started sharing info. Would they attack these civilizations in force before the inevitable renaissance kicks in to high gear? Industrialization will almost certainly spell the end for them, so they'd have a relatively brief window of a few decades at best to destroy any society using magical programming.

And what about the multiverse, if we assume standard D&D planar connections to this world? I'd assume there'd be opponents and supporters, as well as abusers looking to take advantage of the new technologies. Devils could tilt the Blood War with this, since demons are unlikely to utilize it given the natural lawful bent of programming. Mechanus would be ecstatic, everyone in Limbo less so. The more it spreads, the more ordered societies become. The material planes start shifting towards lawful, hard, as the forces of law (civilizations) start overrunning and supplanting the forces of chaos.

If the Abyss gets 'defeated' by the Nine Hells and the lawful counterparts in the heavens edge out or even destroy their chaotic neighbors, what next? Does a resurgent Nine Hells turn on the rest of the planes, which are now missing several key players? Would there be a chaotic blowback? A change in the nature of magic via divine intervention to match what's happening in order to prevent this outcome?

Maybe this is the real, deep underlying truth- this has happened before, on some other world. And once the seers of the gods saw the apocalyptic potential of such technologies in a multiverse rigidly defined by delineation between law and chaos, they hunted down and destroyed these arcane technologies. Adventurers see these remains and assume that they are the remains of a once-great, technologically advanced civilization- unaware that said civilization practically popped up over night and was destroyed almost as fast. The simple magics and artifacts they find scattered throughout are what the gods left behind, as they were of no consequence. The truly dangerous parts, the march of science and progress, have been so thoroughly destroyed that not even a hint of what they truly were remains.

Or, you know. It's just fantasy in space. Whichever.

[Lawful Good]

This thread/idea is...one of the best things I have ever read on this forum. Well done thinking of this. My mind is blown :smallbiggrin:

[Hecuba]

If so, would it be possible to build a Turing-complete computer in this way?

In principle, yes. A Turing complete, universal computer can be constructed from a single instruction set (though it's far from efficient). You can easily meet that here.

In practice, modern micro circuitry is very dependent on miniaturization and automated production for scale. Even the earliest 80386 chip had nearly 300k transistors, and that was just the processor. That will be hard to replicate if each instance of the spell would have to be laid down by a spellcaster.

[Aaron Underhand]

In principle, yes. A Turing complete, universal computer can be constructed from a single instruction set (though it's far from efficient). You can easily meet that here.

In practice, modern micro circuitry is very dependent on miniaturization and automated production for scale. Even the earliest 80386 chip had nearly 300k transistors, and that was just the processor. That will be hard to replicate if each instance of the spell would have to be laid down by a spellcaster.
Say any 3rd level mage with money and motivation could generate 50 magic mouth items a day, so 6 mages working flat out for 3 years, to get one CPU chip. Universe changing, but not universally available like PCs in the real world....

[Waterdeep Merch]

Say any 3rd level mage with money and motivation could generate 50 magic mouth items a day, so 6 mages working flat out for 3 years, to get one CPU chip. Universe changing, but not universally available like PCs in the real world....
It doesn't have to be a mage. Ritual casting is do-able without normal access to magic. It's not really qualified too much in core books or what you could consider our setting materials either (which is... SCAG? And that's it?). In Eberron in particular, it could be assumed that ritual casting is pretty rote thanks to the Dragonmarked houses and their use/need of it. And Faerun appears to have lesser casters all over if the spellcasting services in AL are supposed to be canonical, and I'm making something of an assumption that the world will have more lesser ritual casters than true casters given how much easier it is to access.


So if it takes 6 mages 3 years, what about a nobleman in either of these settings that pays for the services of 30 people with ritual casting? Or a mage's guild? Or even a thieves' guild that recognize how crazy strong something like this would be if they have it and their marks don't? What about a fiend that makes their warlocks develop the necessary parts for them as part of their bargain (which is an incredibly brilliant way for a devil to go about it- offer power for something as simple as using the included Tome of Shadows to cast Magic Mouth a few innocuous times for something they probably won't understand at all, and they'll think they got a steal)?

High level wizards can have their simulacrum do this, too. And liches won't care about taking centuries to build a powerful magic device, it's sort of their thing. If anything, I'd expect a handful of these machines to pop up within a year of the first person that demonstrates the knowledge necessary for programming. The only two published D&D settings I'd think this is unlikely in are Athas and possibly Krynn, depending. There just aren't enough casters running around to make it feasible, nor the resources (you'd need to mine MILLIONS of gp worth of jade. Also, lots of bee farming).

[Segev]

One note: I see nowhere in the spell that it says you cannot place more than one magic mouth (each with its own message and trigger) on the same object. No need for boxes full of rice or grains of sand; just cast the same spell over and over on the unit case, itself.

[Renduaz]

One note: I see nowhere in the spell that it says you cannot place more than one magic mouth (each with its own message and trigger) on the same object. No need for boxes full of rice or grains of sand; just cast the same spell over and over on the unit case, itself.

It's forbidden in the PHB itself, when cast on the same target:

"The effects of different spells add together while the durations of those spells overlap. The effects of the same spell cast multiple times don't combine, however. lnstead, the most potent effect-such as the highest bonus-from those castings applies while their durations overlap." - PHB Page 205

[Segev]

It's forbidden in the PHB itself, when cast on the same target:

"The effects of different spells add together while the durations of those spells overlap. The effects of the same spell cast multiple times don't combine, however. lnstead, the most potent effect-such as the highest bonus-from those castings applies while their durations overlap." - PHB Page 205


This isn't "combining" or "stacking." This is two different effects.

But, it's not worth arguing strenuously, since the box of sand works just fine as something we can agree does work.

[ross]

Used the contraction it's where its was intended throughout the post, recommend proofreading

[smlsound]

One problem with this admittedly amazing and ridiculous use of such a mundane spell.

Your alphabet system is completely flawed in one (easily fixable) way. You made the triggers for each of the 26 "letters" of the alphabet, their spoken sounds. That's all well and good. But, letters don't make sounds consistently. Phonemes are what you're after and in American English, there are about 44 depending on your accent.

So, if you only programmed "A" to sound like the "a" in "amazing" it would only work for that phoneme of "uh" like "uh-m-ay-z-i-ng" In the example given, you wouldn't be able to say the hard "A" sound of "amAzing." Therefore, If you wanted to say "Atypical," or any other hard A sound, you couldn't. You'd have to program each sound that is made in a given language as an input. But, this doesn't break the system, just makes it take more time and be slightly more expensive every time.

Also, I know it was argued over, but "that the magic mouth can clearly see" must, in my view, mean that it is a necessary condition of the spell working and that "see" would not be included unless it was necessary and relevant to all set conditions possible by the spell. It's a bit like the basic speed law in California. "Never go faster than the present conditions allow" is literally the whole phrasing of the law. You could argue that "present conditions" allow me to go 120 MPH. But, there are other laws, such as the posted speed limit in a given area that ALSO apply.

So, yes, "Say 8 o'clock if a creature moves in this degree of vision" as an input means that, without fail, that magic mouth will say "8 o'clock" if it can "see" the creature. I agree with the spirit of your argument that what you can see is up for debate in other areas of RAW, but not in common language and not in the understanding of the term as it's used in the spell description. Would you be okay with a player saying "I can see that invisible bugbear?" simply because no one ever said he didn't have true sight? The magic mouth spell doesn't say that it does have truesight, it just says "though it must be based on visual or audible conditions." So, your argument that "visual = anything whether illusive/hidden/behind/magic'd" doesn't hold up to a basic understanding of both--and that's key--both visual and seeing which are both mentioned in the spell. "Seeing" is never defined as far as I can reckon, in the PHB. Other types of sight (meaning they grant you different ways to see) are described, but never seeing. That's because everyone knows what seeing means. It means you can see it. Therefore, if you're invisible, which literally means "unseeable" you can't be seen.

Not throwing shade, just appreciate a lively understanding of this stuff. You are a most creative individual and I appreciate the effort put into this epic use of the spell.

Also, I'm a sound engineer and I would argue sound is a very powerful tool and much less restricted because it is not blocked by physical objects, nor most enchantments. This is where I could get very technical in favor of the spirit of your arcane programming because Audible is 100% dependent on there being Sound Pressure Waves and completely independent of whether or not someone is there to hear the "sound," the definition of sound always includes psychoacoustics, or a transducer to be exact. So, ANY sound that could possibly reach the magic mouth is fair game (within range) since we're talking about Sound Pressure Waves, not "sound." Bonus nerding: if a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to hear it, it absolutely does not make a sound. But it does make sound pressure waves.

[grend]

Some thoughts from the shower.

Other people have mentioned phonemes and the phonetic alphabet which is cool we all seem to have our own take on it.

I used to teach spelling to SEN children aged 11-12 using graphemes and how to pronounce words using phonemes so yeah, there's 44 give or take which system you use and they are integral to spoken language. Also ready mentioned by a couple of people alphabetic language would lose a lot of meaning, perhaps not cripplingly so but probably flawed enough that you would quickly need to rethink. More immediately the cost of your cabling has increased drastically meaning this kind of communication would be restricted to more wealthy characters/organisations.

But wait, there's more.

Other languages have sounds found outside the english phoneme system, creating sounds that it cannot reproduce, even accepting that some would be reusable - each distinct language (that did not com from a common root) would have to be programmed separately further increasing the cost and restricting the flexibility of each instance of relays. I'm glossing over this a little because I haven't done my research on how many other languages have drastically different phonemes in their spoke language but broadly speaking they don't translate well over continents. Also I want to say something clever about languages that are sung primarily, but I can't remember the details well enough.

However let's assume everyone speaks common - because the PH says so.

But wait, there's more.

I refuse to belive that everyone would speak common the same way. In the English language there are 160 dialects spoken around the world. In England alone there are 37 distinct dialects that speak in drastically different ways. For the uninitiated someone speaking the same language in a drastically different accent or dialect can be nigh unintelligible. I am from southern England, and when I was young I could barely understand people with a thick Scottish accent, or a number of other dialects I hadn't been exposed to much. When my wife first met my uncle she couldn't understand what he was saying, and he just has a deep voice and mumbles a lot. So for me this raises a lot of questions of the viability, expense, accuracy and accessibility this would have. I strongly suspect that a magic mouth programmed to respond to clearly spoken phonemes from the north would not accept clearly spoken phonemes from the south.

But wait there's more.

Probably.

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea and this only is aimed at the alphabetic language idea (I hope the OP isn't feeling battered by the linguistic gnashing of teeth!) and have really got plans for magic mouth in the game I run, primarily as an early warning relay system in dungeons and well set up encounters. Another DM I know has used it to record the last words of a bard along with his effects and I remember our DM in our first games 20 years ago in Ad&d using it in a lot of inventive ways, its a cool and very underestimated spell.

[Savanik]

Have a look at my implementation.

AB
These are two pebbles enchanted with 'Magic Mouth' at 10gp each.

A. Every second, if a human is within 30', utter '1'.
B. Every second, if a human is not within 30', utter '0'.

Since Magic Mouth can only speak on a triggered circumstance, you need two of them to give binary data, and these conditions must be logically contradictory. That said, this pairing now functions as a simple yes/no detector, or a 'wire'. Using this principle, you can give any number of outputs, but two will be used going forward for simplicity.

Henceforth, 'wire logic' will be written as a unit.

ABC
These are three 'wires' enchanted with Magic Mouth. (60gp)

A. If a human is present, 1, otherwise 0.
B. If the king's symbol is present, 1, otherwise 0.
We now have two inputs.

C. This is your logic gate.
1. "If A or B have said '1' in the last second, say 1, otherwise 0. (OR gate)
2. "If A or B have said '1' in the last second, say 0, otherwise 1. (NOR gate)
2. "If A and B have said '1' in the last second, say 1, otherwise 0. (AND gate)
3. "If A and B have said '1' in the last second, say 0, otherwise 1. (NAND gate)

The NOR and NAND gate have the property of functional completeness. That is, any other logic function (AND, OR, etc.) can be implemented using only NAND gates. An entire processor can be created using NAND gates alone.

How about memory registers?

SR NOR Latch

SR

S. If a human is present or R is 1, return 0, otherwise return 1.
R. If you say 'reset' or S is 1, return 0, otherwise return 1.

Nominally, a human is not present. S returns 1. This means that R returns 0. While a human is not present and S is 0, S returns 1. This is the 'untriggered' state.

A human shows up. S now returns 0. R now returns 1. Since R is returning 1, even when the human leaves, S's input of R's '1' makes it return 0. R's inputs are now both 0's, and it's held high. This is the 'triggered' state.

You say 'reset'. R now returns 0. A human is not present, R is returning 0, and S now returns 1. We are back to the 'untriggered' state.


So now we have logic gates, and memory. But how do we reliably get output from the device that isn't just audible speaking? How do we get it to DO STUFF? Sure, Arcane lock is one option. I think it's the cheapest one. But ... don't some devices have a command word? How about a Decanter of Endless Water? It's only an Uncommon Magical Item, so it's not super expensive, either. And with three command words for various levels of water, you technically have four states it can be in, which is two bits of information.

[AbramTheMan]

Awesome uses, just a little nit-pick, but although there are 26 letters in the English alphabet, there are more than 26 sounds (I think 44?). ex: a -> lag, a -> lake, etc.
Also worth noting that it would probably not pick up on inflections with just these 44 sounds, so to use the earpiece to communicate would probably sound like Steven Hawking is talking to you which is awesome!

Anyway, I'm definitely going to use this for an NPC who is "watching" (sensing) the players go through his dungeon and talking back to them through a series of cables, taunting them and so forth (getting vibes of the Riddler from the Arkham games).

Thanks so much for this thread, it has given me many ideas when I was trying to work in a way for him to keep track of them (without scrying) and have a sort of intercom system.

[truemane]

Metamagic Mod: IF [Thread] = Necro; THEN [Close].