Wizard Guides

[ZorroGames]

Okay, discussion on wizards ensued. Last time I played a Wizard was white box era and while she achieved 16th level in OD&D that was many editions ago and so much has changed that I clearly could use a guide to even understand 5e wizard builds.

There was talk about IN/DE builds versus IN/CO builds for Abjuration, Evocation, Conjuration, Necromancy, Transmutation Schools versus one person’s IN/CH build (Enchanter.) Illussion seemed to be felt to be “too DM dependent” to be included.

Help me here and bring my level of understanding up to speed, please. I almost certainly would build (evntually) dwarf, gnome, or Variant Human wizard only.

Are IN/CO builds worth the effort? Even with Tough Feat early on? :smallannoyed:

Does any school lend itself to IN/CO building more than the others? :smallfrown:

IN/DE builds seem to be based on “First Strike is Best Strike” philosophy. Is that primarily an Evoker thing? :smallconfused:

Gracias in advance. I really felt like a fish out of water listening to this discussion. :smalleek:

[Ovarwa]

Check out the charop forums on enworld.org. Sticky link contains a few useful wizard guides, plus guides to other caster types that did not exist back in the day.

[Honest Tiefling]

Does any school lend itself to IN/CO building more than the others? :smallfrown:

Not a school, but a Fighter 2/Wizard X or cleric 1/Wizard x multiclass certainly would benefit. I don't reccomend them, not due to complexity, but because it delays spellcasting, but it's something to consider. I think there are merits to both INT/DEX and INT/CON, so I would probably decide based on your race and your own preferences. Unless your table is extremely optimized, both will probably work just as well.


IN/DE builds seem to be based on “First Strike is Best Strike” philosophy. Is that primarily an Evoker thing? :smallconfused:

No. Any class with an AoE to drop benefits from going early to get as many enemies and as few allies. A debuffer/buffer benefits from debuffing early to make the most of it. Almost ANY class benefits from going first.

Google 'Treantmonk's guide to 5e wizards'. It's very tongue in cheek, but it's also very informative and should be good for the new player. He also goes over spells in another guide which is going to be helpful.

[dejarnjc]

Are IN/CO builds worth the effort? Even with Tough Feat early on? :smallannoyed:

Does any school lend itself to IN/CO building more than the others? :smallfrown:

IN/DE builds seem to be based on “First Strike is Best Strike” philosophy. Is that primarily an Evoker thing? :smallconfused:
:

5e is much simpler, all you really need to worry about as a wizard is maximizing your intelligence and picking decent spells, everything else is just style.

Int/Con is strong if you're going to be running a lot of concentration spells as your con mod will help you make your concentration saves.

Int/Dex is generally strong if you want to avoid getting hit between Mage armor and shield. It's not really about damage at all unless you're running a bladesinger wizard.


Evocation, abjuration, and divination tend to be considered the most consistently strong schools of magic.

[kladams707]

I have no idea what IN/DE or IN/CO means to chime in.

[Unoriginal]

I have no idea what IN/DE or IN/CO means to chime in.

Intelligence/Dexterity or Intelligence/Con. AKA which are your primary stats.

[Slipperychicken]

-I haven't heard of "IN/CO" or "IN/DE" before. I'm guessing you mean intelligence/constitution and intelligence/dexterity? Nowadays the first three letters are used as abbreviations for the abilities (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha).

-Int, dex, and con are all good stats for wizards to have. People usually try for intelligence 16 or higher, but it's not the end of the world to have 14 in it. If your con and dex are 10-12 or higher, you'll probably be fine as long as you stay out of harm's way. Wisdom gets an honorable mention since it helps with a lot of saving throws.

-Acrobatics is considered a good skill for casters to take, since it can be used to escape grapples. If your wizard happens to have higher strength than dex, then athletics could serve that purpose too.

-Mountain dwarves are considered strong choices for wizards because they can wear medium armor. Variant human is great if you can think of a feat you really want. Gnomes have some great racial features of their own. All three of those races are good picks.

-When picking and casting spells, concentration is very important. A caster may only have one concentration spell active at a time, so if you want to cast one, try to pick one which you won't want to drop next turn.

-If your go-to tactic is "go first and land a strong spell", then the Alert feat might interest you, since it gives +5 to initiative.

-Sleep is strong in the early game, especially since there's no attack roll or saving throw, but it tapers off quickly as enemies get more hit points.

-For your cantrips, you'll want at least one to be something you'll cast during off-rounds. Usually an attack cantrip like fire bolt or chill touch serves this purpose, but a creative caster can also be effective with minor illusion. Basically the writers gave casters weak attack spells for free so they don't have to use crossbows. That said, if you have a good dex, a ranged weapon can still be worthwhile at low levels.

-Wizards generally want to stay out of harm's way and behind cover, although you may sometimes want to move in to cast burning hands or a touch spell. Cover grants bonuses to both armor class and dexterity saving throws. Obviously, if you're fully behind a wall or something like that, you can't be targeted.

[JeffreyGator]

-Sleep is strong in the early game, especially since there's no attack roll or saving throw, but it tapers off quickly as enemies get more hit points.


Sleep can be useful later in the game also - especially if you like prisoners. It uses current rather than maximum hit points.

My ogre mage dropped two 6th level fighter types a month or so ago after having previously hitting them with cone of cold.

At low levels, it may drop a couple of enemies at full health which is awesome, but taking away the actions of higher level folk down on hp is effective at any level - sometimes taking up the actions of others to awaken them.

[ZorroGames]

-I haven't heard of "IN/CO" or "IN/DE" before. I'm guessing you mean intelligence/constitution and intelligence/dexterity? Nowadays the first three letters are used as abbreviations for the abilities (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha).
snip


Back in OD&D and before the internet groups in CA often used

S, D, Co, I, W, Ch

which became ST, DE, CO, IN, WI, CO

because It was more consistent than mixing one and two letter acronyms.

Too old to change now for some newfangled method. :smallwink: :smallsmile:

[ZorroGames]

5e is much simpler, all you really need to worry about as a wizard is maximizing your intelligence and picking decent spells, everything else is just style.

Int/Con is strong if you're going to be running a lot of concentration spells as your con mod will help you make your concentration saves.

Int/Dex is generally strong if you want to avoid getting hit between Mage armor and shield. It's not really about damage at all unless you're running a bladesinger wizard.


Evocation, abjuration, and divination tend to be considered the most consistently strong schools of magic.

Thanks. So glad Wizards no longer use D4 for HPs but still can’t imagine the average wizard (apparently bladesinger is not the average wizard) using CO to boost HPs to where they try to play melee hero by choice. Maybe that part of the conversation was oriented to bladesinger?

[Slipperychicken]

Thanks. So glad Wizards no longer use D4 for HPs but still can’t imagine the average wizard (apparently bladesinger is not the average wizard) using CO to boost HPs to where they try to play melee hero by choice. Maybe that part of the conversation was oriented to bladesinger?

Yeah, most wizards get mulched in melee combat even with con to hp. Their armor class is still low and they don't get good weapon proficiencies. Still, it's a good idea to have some con in case you do take damage; constitution is important to all classes because hit point and damage numbers have generally bloated in recent decades.

Bladesinger wizards are specifically meant to be able to participate in melee. They basically get a rage-like power where they add intelligence to armor class and get some other benefit on top of that. Personally I dislike them since 1) Wizards are supposed to be squishy, 2) Using intelligence for armor class feels wrong to me, 3) We already have multiple hybrid classes who can both fight and cast spells.