How evil should I be?

[Calthropstu]

So here's the scenario:
book four has the party doing a full on dungeon delve. At the point where they enter the third sub area there is a 200 foot drop with a winding staircase. During the walk down, 3 monks drink fly potions and ambush the party. One of the monks disarmed the person in the lead... who was carrying Suishen, the artifact sword obtained in the second book, one monk attacked the rear and the last one attacked the center.

The one attacking the center had his fly dispelled falling 130 feet, slow falling 40 with fly itself slowing it 60. He splashed into water below... and one of the other monks fell next to him dead.
Ordinarily their tactics are "fight to the death." But with Suishen right next to him and far from combat, I decided that the monk took Suishen and ran to his master, Munusakaru, counting it a major victory.



Nonspoiler explanation: Random mook escapes deeper into dungeon with major artifact weapon plot device dropped during a disarm of a pc.

The PCs currently have the way out completely blocked off, but it is definitely possible for the boss of the dungeon to send someone out of the dungeon by sneaking past them as they delve deeper.
But that would be a real **** move. What does the playground think should happen?

[legomaster00156]

That depends. Do you want to run a potentially long sidequest in which they attempt to reclaim the sword, or do you just want the enemies to use it against them here?

[Psyren]

The PCs currently have the way out completely blocked off, but it is definitely possible for the boss of the dungeon to send someone out of the dungeon by sneaking past them as they delve deeper.

This seems like a contradiction; if the way out is completely blocked off, getting past them should not be possible, whether the mook sneaks or not. Care to elaborate on what exactly the PCs have done?

[Calthropstu]

This seems like a contradiction; if the way out is completely blocked off, getting past them should not be possible, whether the mook sneaks or not. Care to elaborate on what exactly the PCs have done?

It's not blocked off per se. The enemies just have to get by the pcs... their presence blocks it.
At the moment, the only thing the monk is doing is heading to his mistress. But the organization his mistress belongs to wants that sword BAD. It is a MAJOR plot item.
However, it is MUCH better than what that boss is currently using. Unfortunately, the artifact is intelligent and has a very high ego making it quite dangerous for this boss to wield.
The monk barely managed to avoid being taken over by the sword when he picked it up.
If it makes it back to the organization, it will either become the weapon of choice of the bbeg or get locked in a vault guarded by a dragon which they can't access until the end of the game.

[ATHATH]

~How ba-a-a-ad can I be?~
~I'm just doin' what comes nat'rally.~

[Nifft]

I'd have the mook get taken over by the artifact.

This shows the PCs the dangers of intelligent artifacts, and creates an unexpected scramble as the BBEG's organization and the PCs both race to recover the artifact -- over the mook's dead body, since the mook is busily establishing a power-base to better serve the artifact's needs, and isn't able to give the artifact up to anyone.

Have a tense 3-way standoff with the BBEG's forces, the mook + artifact + whatever they scrounged up, and the PCs. The first side to attack loses, probably -- but likely so does the first side to be attacked. So there's a diplomatic dialog to provoke each other to attack the other side first.

[Calthropstu]

I'd have the mook get taken over by the artifact.

This shows the PCs the dangers of intelligent artifacts, and creates an unexpected scramble as the BBEG's organization and the PCs both race to recover the artifact -- over the mook's dead body, since the mook is busily establishing a power-base to better serve the artifact's needs, and isn't able to give the artifact up to anyone.

Have a tense 3-way standoff with the BBEG's forces, the mook + artifact + whatever they scrounged up, and the PCs. The first side to attack loses, probably -- but likely so does the first side to be attacked. So there's a diplomatic dialog to provoke each other to attack the other side first.

Doesn't work. Awesome idea, but can't work since the artifact's primary purpose is to be used to defend a particular person with the PCs.
The artifact is the weapon of the Amatatsu line, heirs to the throne of Minkai... which Amieko, traveling with the PCs, is the last surviving member.

[legomaster00156]

In this case, I suggest having the sword hidden away carefully deep within the dungeon while the remainder of the enemy forces zerg-attack the PC's (probably in waves of encounters) in an attempt to break free. With the PC's out of the way, whether repelled or dead, they can work on getting the sword to the BBEG.

[CluFa]

So here's the scenario:


Nonspoiler explanation: Random mook escapes deeper into dungeon with major artifact weapon plot device dropped during a disarm of a pc.

The PCs currently have the way out completely blocked off, but it is definitely possible for the boss of the dungeon to send someone out of the dungeon by sneaking past them as they delve deeper.
But that would be a real **** move. What does the playground think should happen?

Well, it is one way to get the PCs to go down any particular hellhole you want to railroad them into.

CluFa :smallamused:

[Calthropstu]

Well, it is one way to get the PCs to go down any particular hellhole you want to railroad them into.

CluFa :smallamused:

Trust me, they are on the adventure path choo choo wearing seatbelts and harness.
That adventure path kind of digs its claws in and holds you down on the rails, even going so far as to force you to accept an unteleportable/planeshiftable/bag of holdingable macguffin.

[King of Nowhere]

if the only way out for the local boss is over the party's dead body, it makes sense that he would use the sword himself.

If the local boss does not want to die, it makes sense that he uses the sword himself.

if the local boss is fanatical enough, or sure enough he'll be granted a resurrection spell for his goood service, and he's reasonably sure he can sneak the sword past the PCs, then he should send the sword to his mistress.

[Calthropstu]

if the only way out for the local boss is over the party's dead body, it makes sense that he would use the sword himself.

If the local boss does not want to die, it makes sense that he uses the sword himself.

if the local boss is fanatical enough, or sure enough he'll be granted a resurrection spell for his goood service, and he's reasonably sure he can sneak the sword past the PCs, then he should send the sword to his mistress.

Yeah, no. Since the sword requires an exotic weapon proficiency, and since it will bestow negative levels AND try to dominate her (with a high chance of success) not sure her wielding it is a good idea. To be fair, she has another such item on her (nowhere near as powerful) but she has the feat for it.

She is arrogant enough to believe she can take on anything and will 1vs all the pcs. She's a decent lvl oni with some decent combat skills, but she will be severely outmatched. Her lieutenants are another story, and already I have nearly tpk'd with them.

[Bronk]

The monk barely managed to avoid being taken over by the sword when he picked it up.




Doesn't work. Awesome idea, but can't work since the artifact's primary purpose is to be used to defend a particular person with the PCs.


From the SRD


When a personality conflict occurs, the possessor must make a Will saving throw (DC = item’s Ego). If the possessor succeeds, she is dominant. If she fails, the item is dominant. Dominance lasts for one day or until a critical situation occurs (such as a major battle, a serious threat to either the item or the character, and so on). Should an item gain dominance, it resists the character’s desires and demands concessions such as any of the following.

It looks like the monk has possession of the sword, and is currently dominant. However, since passing the sword over to the mid level BBEG would constitute a serious threat to the item, (as would dropping the item into a bag or something that could also be passed along without further dominance checks) that would initiate another dominance check.

The PCs could follow the monks down into the dungeon, and time a strike against the bad guys to coincide with the handoff, in the hopes of taking advantage of any confusion that might ensue.

Since this is an artifact though, you could give it the power to change alignments. It might be fun to have the monk turn into one of the good guys, but want to keep the sword! The sword itself might decide the monk is a better protector, since he can be a more dedicated bodyguard than the PCs who keep getting into trouble, especially since it sounds like the one it's protecting is also an NPC.

In that case, it could be fun to have your PC try to convince the artifact to come back, or maybe grapple with the monk and have some kind of opposed EGO checks to determine the winner.

[Grod_The_Giant]

As I see it, the PCs lost the PlotbladeTM. There should be some consequence to that, since it's a slip-up, but it can't be too major, because of PlotTM (and because the slip-up is more bad luck than bad strategy).

Thought 1 is to have the big bad use the sword. Fudge their stats a little bit to give them proficiency, and have a nice dramatic battle. The boss gets a bit stronger, but clever players might be able to turn the intelligent sword back against them-- it balances out.

Thought 2 would be to add a countdown. If they don't advance to X point quickly enough, the monk will hand the sword off to the boss who'll hide it/destroy it/use it in some evil ritual. Maybe give them a stretch goal where if they make a halfway point really quickly, they get another shot at intercepting the sword.

[gkathellar]

From the SRD



It looks like the monk has possession of the sword, and is currently dominant. However, since passing the sword over to the mid level BBEG would constitute a serious threat to the item, (as would dropping the item into a bag or something that could also be passed along without further dominance checks) that would initiate another dominance check.

The PCs could follow the monks down into the dungeon, and time a strike against the bad guys to coincide with the handoff, in the hopes of taking advantage of any confusion that might ensue.

Since this is an artifact though, you could give it the power to change alignments. It might be fun to have the monk turn into one of the good guys, but want to keep the sword! The sword itself might decide the monk is a better protector, since he can be a more dedicated bodyguard than the PCs who keep getting into trouble, especially since it sounds like the one it's protecting is also an NPC.

In that case, it could be fun to have your PC try to convince the artifact to come back, or maybe grapple with the monk and have some kind of opposed EGO checks to determine the winner.

The sword already wants to come back. As Calthropstu sai, its motivation is aligned with that of the PCs.

[Bronk]

The sword already wants to come back. As Calthropstu sai, its motivation is aligned with that of the PCs.

The sword wants to come back, but it can't... It failed it's dominance check with the monk, and won't get another chance until later.

It's motivation might be aligned with the PCs, but it also might not. All we've been told is that it wants to protect some NPC, but we've also been told that the PCs are dragging the NPC around into dangerous situations, which it might consider, upon reflection, to be counterproductive. If it wins out against the monk, it might just decide to ditch the party and take the NPC somewhere safe. It could do this by having the monk give itself to the NPC, or even have the monk take the NPC away to actual safety (perhaps after an alignment change).

These are all just options to keep the plot going.


As I see it, the PCs lost the PlotbladeTM.

Hah! This is great! I see it as a metasword that, when used, slices up parts of the opponent's character sheet.

[denthor]

I have nothing to add but this.

This why dice games are chaotic at its core. Anything can and will happen. What I do not understand is the this sword will only work with the pc it is aligned to. How can the boss wield it correctly or access all the powers?

[Andreaz]

Add more chaos to the situation. There'll be a couple times where the sword can re-assert dominance.

Failing that, your overconfident boss would probably try to use it, THEN send it to the bigger boss outside.


That's quite enough, in my opinion, for the whole dungeon.



And if failing all that the sword gets sent away, there WILL be a trail of bearers dominated and messed with for them to follow in time, if they rush enough.

[daremetoidareyo]

Smash the plotblade.

Melt it in a forge or in a summoned up demon's breath weapon or something and throw the molten mass at the PCs' faces.

[denthor]

Oh 2nd question why does the other side really want the blade?

[Nifft]

Smash the plotblade.

Ooo, and then they re-forge it into one plot-weapon each.

[Calthropstu]

Oh 2nd question why does the other side really want the blade?
Warning, the following spoiler contains in depth information about the adventure path Jade Regent.



Suishen is a katana passed down through the Amatatsu line. It can verify Ameiko as an heir to the Amatatsu line, one of 5 royal lineages capable of taking the jade throne of the empire of Minkai. Currently, Oni have taken control of the empire and have wiped out the other 4 lines. They have become aware of Ameiko and the threat she poses as a true living legitimate heir. If they can kill Ameiko permanently, take control of Suishen and the Amatatsu seal, or completely eradicate all who would support her, the Oni win the country permanently.

Short version: Think Aragorn and the sword of the king.

[Bronk]

Warning, the following spoiler contains in depth information about the adventure path Jade Regent.



Suishen is a katana passed down through the Amatatsu line. It can verify Ameiko as an heir to the Amatatsu line, one of 5 royal lineages capable of taking the jade throne of the empire of Minkai. Currently, Oni have taken control of the empire and have wiped out the other 4 lines. They have become aware of Ameiko and the threat she poses as a true living legitimate heir. If they can kill Ameiko permanently, take control of Suishen and the Amatatsu seal, or completely eradicate all who would support her, the Oni win the country permanently.

Short version: Think Aragorn and the sword of the king.

After reading this, and looking up some stuff about the sword, it sure looks like only the NPC descendant is supposed to use it in the first place. Unless the PC is also a scion?

[Calthropstu]

After reading this, and looking up some stuff about the sword, it sure looks like only the NPC descendant is supposed to use it in the first place. Unless the PC is also a scion?

The whole party becomes scions, it's part of the first book.

[Bronk]

The whole party becomes scions, it's part of the first book.

Cool... then there could be some interesting role playing when the sword comes back, where it wants a do-over to choose who among the entire party should wield it, and the original wielder would have to prove him or her self worthy. Of course, since the former wielder has the exotic weapon proficiency feat, the odds might weigh heavily in the former wielder's favor.