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PeteNutButter
2017-10-22, 09:31 PM
With Xanathar still a bit away, I've been looking for more theory-crafting things to kill time, and I have returned to this puzzle I thought of some time ago:

What would Chuck Norris do?

Now for the purpose of this exercise Chuck Norris has decided to limit himself to everything in the PHB. The basic premise is that Chuck Norris never makes choices that have a downside, at every crossroads he gets everything. He is a level 20 "gestalt" with the abilities of every class, subclass, subclass feature, spell, and feat, along with expertise in every skill. His ability scores are all at 20, except where boosted higher by class features such as barbarian. He has no magic items (beard, feet, and fists not withstanding).

So the question is: What would Chuck Norris do? ...in one round against a single AC 23 enemy that has enough hp that he won't die until that very last hit and has 3 Legendary Saves. The scenario is just an open initiative without any chance to buff or use abilities beforehand. Neither side is surprised.

I'm looking for both A) his optimal actions in the first round of combat to maximize damage, and B) his optimal actions in a round that expends zero resources.

For the purpose of this exercise, Chuck will not be deciding to roll all 20s, and instead will roll exactly average on attack rolls and damage rolls.

I've come up with my best solutions, but I'll withhold them in case anyone else feels like taking a stab at it. I'm sure I'm forgetting some things with the breadth of abilities at his disposal. Also, bonus points if you do it away from book.

Crgaston
2017-10-22, 11:10 PM
Well, not a lot of thought into this but... Bonus action flurry to knock enemy prone for advantage, Quivering palm x 4, action surge to end the vibrations. Portent to help the attacks hit or saves fail, as needed. I suppose battlemaster superiority dice could accomplish the hitting assurance as well.

That ought to do it.

Or better yet...

Round 1: Trip attack, Menacing attack, Quivering palmx2, Action Surge-> Quivering palm x 4, bonus action flurry to prevent reactions and knock them 15 feet away.

Round 2: Viciously Mock the doomed opponent, Action Surge-> end the QP vibrations. Etc.

PeteNutButter
2017-10-23, 12:39 AM
Well, not a lot of thought into this but... Bonus action flurry to knock enemy prone for advantage, Quivering palm x 4, action surge to end the vibrations. Portent to help the attacks hit or saves fail, as needed. I suppose battlemaster superiority dice could accomplish the hitting assurance as well.

That ought to do it.

Or better yet...

Round 1: Trip attack, Menacing attack, Quivering palmx2, Action Surge-> Quivering palm x 4, bonus action flurry to prevent reactions and knock them 15 feet away.

Round 2: Viciously Mock the doomed opponent, Action Surge-> end the QP vibrations. Etc.

Sadly, I don't think the 10d10 damage from quivering palm is more than just attacking. Four attacks that can use smite, maneuvers, fangs of the fire snake.

Points, for cool flavor though.:smallbiggrin:

Crgaston
2017-10-23, 09:13 AM
Note that the 10d10 is if they MAKE the save. If they fail, it reduces the target to 0hp. Hence the portent. Assuming they all hit and the Portents are favorable, 3 will burn through any legendary saves for 30-300, leaving the other 3 to chance. Worst case 60-600.


Sadly, I don't think the 10d10 damage from quivering palm is more than just attacking. Four attacks that can use smite, maneuvers, fangs of the fire snake.

Points, for cool flavor though.:smallbiggrin:

Aett_Thorn
2017-10-23, 09:18 AM
Note that the 10d10 is if they MAKE the save. If they fail, it reduces the target to 0hp. Hence the portent. Assuming they all hit and the Portents are favorable, 3 will burn through any legendary saves for 30-300, leaving the other 3 to chance. Worst case 60-600.

Can you stack Quivering Palms on a single target, though? I would think that the stacking limit would prevent the targets from having more than one of these applied at the same time. Certainly, one is enough if it works, but otherwise, it's just 10d10 damage, and I think there would be ways to get more damage than that.

Crgaston
2017-10-23, 09:28 AM
Can you stack Quivering Palms on a single target, though? I would think that the stacking limit would prevent the targets from having more than one of these applied at the same time. Certainly, one is enough if it works, but otherwise, it's just 10d10 damage, and I think there would be ways to get more damage than that.

Actually, you may be right about the damage part, but I’m AFB. I know the QP ability says you can’t have it active on more than one creature at any given time, but nothing about having more than one QP on the same creature. I’ll have to break down and re-read the relevant rules :)

Edit: Although I Imagine this would totally work for Chuck Norris :)

Slipperychicken
2017-10-23, 09:41 AM
He looks the GM in the eyes. The GM soils himself and declares the enemy slain.

Stelio Kontos
2017-10-23, 09:44 AM
I'm fairly sure that average die rolls for Chuck Norris IS 20, so I object to at least part of the premise.

JackPhoenix
2017-10-23, 11:22 AM
AC 23, rolling 10's all the time, no resources needed

Thanks to Unlimited Rage, he's always angry without having to spend bonus action, so the rage bonus is on all the time.

1st attack is shot from heavy crossbow from surprise (because he's winning initiative with at least +13 bonus from 20 Dex, Alert feat and half proficiency from Jack of All Trades, and he's got Stealth +17 from Dex, proficiency and Expertise). Autocrit thanks to assassin, sneak attack applies. Note that he's got just enough attack bonus to hit AC 23 with 10 (+5 Dex, +6 proficiency, +2 archery FS), but Sharpshooter can't be used. Does 2d10 (heavy crossbow)+5 (dex)+20d6 (sneak attack)+20d8 (divine strike(s) from Death, Life, Tempest, Trickery and War domains). If the foe is also his favored enemy, he gets +5 damage from Foe Slayer. 180 damage on average

He then drops the crossbow and pulls out either Greatsword or Maul polearm, because he can take the bonus attack from Polearm Master if he doesn't have to use his BA to start Rage, and with 10's, he won't get BA attack from GWM. The polearm is also his blade pact weapon.

Once again, he autohits with 10's (+7 from Str 24, +6 from proficiency). No GWM, because it would lower his chance to hit too much to touch AC 23 with roll of 10.
3 attacks for 1d10 (polearm)+7 (str)+4 (rage)+5 (lifedrinker)+1d8 (improved divine smite). Much less impressive without criticals or once/turn abilities, only 26 damage per attack. 78 damage total

Final attack is BA attack from PAM. Same attack bonus
1d4 (PAM BA attack)+7 (str)+4 (rage)+5 (lifedrinker)+1d8 (improved divine smite)+ 1d8 (collosus slayer: once a turn, but couldn't be used with the crossbow shot, because it requires the target to be below it's max HP). 27.5 damage

Unless I forgot anything, that makes it 285.5 damage without expending any limited-use resource

JellyPooga
2017-10-23, 11:55 AM
AC 23, rolling 10's all the time, no resources needed

Thanks to Unlimited Rage, he's always angry without having to spend bonus action, so the rage bonus is on all the time.

1st attack is shot from heavy crossbow from surprise (because he's winning initiative with at least +13 bonus from 20 Dex, Alert feat and half proficiency from Jack of All Trades, and he's got Stealth +17 from Dex, proficiency and Expertise). Autocrit thanks to assassin, sneak attack applies. Note that he's got just enough attack bonus to hit AC 23 with 10 (+5 Dex, +6 proficiency, +2 archery FS), but Sharpshooter can't be used. Does 2d10 (heavy crossbow)+5 (dex)+20d6 (sneak attack)+20d8 (divine strike(s) from Death, Life, Tempest, Trickery and War domains). If the foe is also his favored enemy, he gets +5 damage from Foe Slayer. 180 damage on average

He then drops the crossbow and pulls out either Greatsword or Maul polearm, because he can take the bonus attack from Polearm Master if he doesn't have to use his BA to start Rage, and with 10's, he won't get BA attack from GWM. The polearm is also his blade pact weapon.

Once again, he autohits with 10's (+7 from Str 24, +6 from proficiency). No GWM, because it would lower his chance to hit too much to touch AC 23 with roll of 10.
3 attacks for 1d10 (polearm)+7 (str)+4 (rage)+5 (lifedrinker)+1d8 (improved divine smite). Much less impressive without criticals or once/turn abilities, only 26 damage per attack. 78 damage total

Final attack is BA attack from PAM. Same attack bonus
1d4 (PAM BA attack)+7 (str)+4 (rage)+5 (lifedrinker)+1d8 (improved divine smite)+ 1d8 (collosus slayer: once a turn, but couldn't be used with the crossbow shot, because it requires the target to be below it's max HP). 27.5 damage

Unless I forgot anything, that makes it 285.5 damage without expending any limited-use resource

Have another go, Thief...

Crgaston
2017-10-23, 12:37 PM
I think the DMG errata apply to the Quivering Palm effect.

Combining Game Effects (p. 252).
This is a new subsection at the end of the “Combat” section: “Different game features can
affect a target at the same time. But when two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply while the durations of the effects overlap.
For example, if a target is ignited by a fire elemental’s Fire Form trait, the ongoing fire damage doesn’t increase if the burning target is subjected to that trait again. Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items. See the related rule in the ‘Combining Magical Effects’ section of chapter 10 in the Player’s Handbook.”


So the way I read it is that you could stack all the Quivering Palm strikes in the same round, but ending each one would take its own action. So this tactic blows out the “1round” stipulation, but otherwise would actually work to force a “10d10 or die”
effect on every subsequent use of an action.

Gryndle
2017-10-23, 12:38 PM
what would Chuck Norris do? he would become great at one thing (fighting), mediocre at another (acting) and then inexplicably become way overrated on the internet.

When I was still teaching, I had one wall of photos and articles of famous martial artists and philosophers to inspire my younger students. The only photo I ever allowed to be posted of Chuck Norris was from an article in Black Belt magazine.
The photo was of Chuck Norris arm-in-arm with Hank Williams JR. both holding long-neck Budweisers and being escorted out of a bar by a mixed group of bouncers and law enforcement for "causing a disturbance"

JackPhoenix
2017-10-23, 01:14 PM
Have another go, Thief...

Right, per round, not per turn. However, the "second" turn's damage would be lower, no surprise autocrit anymore.

alchahest
2017-10-23, 02:46 PM
He'd probably lobby to make bibles a part of school curriculum, then try to make jokes about how tough he is based on a second generation meme. Maybe try to needlessly insert himself into movies for a generation of people that only know him from the meme? I know you said he never makes choices with a downside but really if that's the case we're not talking about chuck norris.

PeteNutButter
2017-10-23, 03:39 PM
AC 23, rolling 10's all the time, no resources needed

Thanks to Unlimited Rage, he's always angry without having to spend bonus action, so the rage bonus is on all the time.

1st attack is shot from heavy crossbow from surprise (because he's winning initiative with at least +13 bonus from 20 Dex, Alert feat and half proficiency from Jack of All Trades, and he's got Stealth +17 from Dex, proficiency and Expertise). Autocrit thanks to assassin, sneak attack applies. Note that he's got just enough attack bonus to hit AC 23 with 10 (+5 Dex, +6 proficiency, +2 archery FS), but Sharpshooter can't be used. Does 2d10 (heavy crossbow)+5 (dex)+20d6 (sneak attack)+20d8 (divine strike(s) from Death, Life, Tempest, Trickery and War domains). If the foe is also his favored enemy, he gets +5 damage from Foe Slayer. 180 damage on average

He then drops the crossbow and pulls out either Greatsword or Maul polearm, because he can take the bonus attack from Polearm Master if he doesn't have to use his BA to start Rage, and with 10's, he won't get BA attack from GWM. The polearm is also his blade pact weapon.

Once again, he autohits with 10's (+7 from Str 24, +6 from proficiency). No GWM, because it would lower his chance to hit too much to touch AC 23 with roll of 10.
3 attacks for 1d10 (polearm)+7 (str)+4 (rage)+5 (lifedrinker)+1d8 (improved divine smite). Much less impressive without criticals or once/turn abilities, only 26 damage per attack. 78 damage total

Final attack is BA attack from PAM. Same attack bonus
1d4 (PAM BA attack)+7 (str)+4 (rage)+5 (lifedrinker)+1d8 (improved divine smite)+ 1d8 (collosus slayer: once a turn, but couldn't be used with the crossbow shot, because it requires the target to be below it's max HP). 27.5 damage

Unless I forgot anything, that makes it 285.5 damage without expending any limited-use resource

This isn't too far off from what I had.

-You do not have surprise just because you won initiative. For the purpose of this exercise there is no reason to assume surprise.

-By average I was saying to use DPR math, so that's multiply all those attacks by .55 as that's the hit chance, or rather .798 with advantage.

How did mine differ? I didn't use a polearm, instead I used a finesse monk weapon. With the bonus action flurry you get 10 attacks which deal [1d10+6d8 (smite)+14(7 str, 5 cha, 2 dueling)]*8*.798 (+1d8 Colossus Slayer +6d12 maneuvers +1d6 MA maneuver +10d6 Sneak Attack) and then two flurry attacks that deal [1d10+1d10(Fire snake)+ 5d8 smite+7]*2*.798. There is also a 27.9% crit chance on all of this. Then on the second turn with the thief action you don't have the maneuvers and are short 5d8 on total smite slots.

All in all that's 507+127.76+471+61.5 for a total DPR in a burst round of 1167.

Citan
2017-10-24, 10:07 AM
With Xanathar still a bit away, I've been looking for more theory-crafting things to kill time, and I have returned to this puzzle I thought of some time ago:

What would Chuck Norris do?

Now for the purpose of this exercise Chuck Norris has decided to limit himself to everything in the PHB. The basic premise is that Chuck Norris never makes choices that have a downside, at every crossroads he gets everything. He is a level 20 "gestalt" with the abilities of every class, subclass, subclass feature, spell, and feat, along with expertise in every skill. His ability scores are all at 20, except where boosted higher by class features such as barbarian. He has no magic items (beard, feet, and fists not withstanding).

So the question is: What would Chuck Norris do? ...in one round against a single AC 23 enemy that has enough hp that he won't die until that very last hit.

I'm looking for both A) his optimal actions in the first round of combat to maximize damage, and B) his optimal actions in a round that expends zero resources.

For the purpose of this exercise, Chuck will not be deciding to roll all 20s, and instead will roll exactly average on attack rolls and damage rolls.

I've come up with my best solutions, but I'll withhold them in case anyone else feels like taking a stab at it. I'm sure I'm forgetting some things with the breadth of abilities at his disposal. Also, bonus points if you do it away from book.
Ok so basically Chuck Norris is an all-in-one god?
Then it also has several 9th level spells I'd say, although it's not that important.

Because he has all, he could use every divination spell and feature to know exactly when the fight would be, and in what condition.
Because he has Sorcerer, he could also Extend buff any and every buff for the fight, that normally lasts at least 10 minutes.

So when entering fight, he has at least...
- Foresight
- 8th level Elemental Weapon
- 9th level Armor of Agathys.
- 4th level Fire Shield.
- Longstrider
- etc etc.
He also has Draconic Wings (so fly) to add to Monk (30), Barb (10), Bladesinger (10) extra speed.

We could also consider Sacred Weapon, but that may be pushing things...

He basically rushes to the face of the creature and makes every weapon attack available, so Action Surge (4) + Attack (4) then drop heavy weapon to draw rapier and Quicken Command ("Attack") while allowing himself to be hit.

Attacks would each deal: 1d10 (weapon) + 5 (STR) + 10 (GWM) + 4 (Rage) + 5 (Oathbreaker) + 5 (Bladesinger) + 5 (Warlock's Lifedrinker) +3d4 (Elemental Weapon) + 5d8 (4th level slot smite) + 1d8 (Improved Divine Smite).
With a hit succeeded on Chuck, enemy takes himself damage from both Fire Shield (9d8?) and Armor of Agathys (9d8?). And triggers "Giant Killer" so Chuck can hit with Sneak Attack damage + smite + rage + IDS + Oathbreaker bonus.
Or enemy misses, then Chuck can use Riposte immediately, or wait for it to move (Sentinel + Warcaster) to make the attack with Booming Blade.

Dont have time to go into detail and make the maths or double-check I didn't miss any significant feature (disclaimer: I very probably did XD) but it should amount to a fair enough amount of damage. ;)

EDIT: 10mn free right now, so let's do the maths. ;)
Obviously all attacks hits, because Chuck Norris, but per decency, we won't account for crits.
Still...
8*(1d10+3d4+5d8+1d8+34) + (45+2d8) + (1d8+24+10d6), not accounting for Manoveurs's damage because I'm lazy.
So average damage 8*(5,5+7,5+27+34)+54+(39,5+24) = 8*74+54+63,5 = 717,5.
Not accounting for potential crits, Brutal Critical and other feats.

Good luck beating that. :)

JakOfAllTirades
2017-10-24, 10:37 AM
He'd probably lobby to make bibles a part of school curriculum, then try to make jokes about how tough he is based on a second generation meme. Maybe try to needlessly insert himself into movies for a generation of people that only know him from the meme? I know you said he never makes choices with a downside but really if that's the case we're not talking about chuck norris.

Or he could pen a good old fashioned "D&D is Satanic!" op ed for WorldNetDaily, if it's a slow day and he's out of things to be outraged about.

Pichu
2017-10-24, 11:21 AM
Normal Turn
Action: Bestow Curse (Constitution)
Action Surge: Punch with Quivering Palm

Thief Turn
Bonus Action: Quickened Bane
Action: End Quivering Palm
Reaction: Bend Luck (Subtract)

DC 19 saving throw vs (at max) +13. With bend luck and Bane, this equates to -5 on average with disadvantage. At +8 vs DC 19, he succeeds 45% of the time. Use portents as necessary.

Minimum Level: 47 (OH Monk 17, Thief Rogue 17, Wild Sorcerer 6, Caster 5, Fighter 2)

PeteNutButter
2017-10-24, 11:45 AM
what would Chuck Norris do? he would become great at one thing (fighting), mediocre at another (acting) and then inexplicably become way overrated on the internet.

When I was still teaching, I had one wall of photos and articles of famous martial artists and philosophers to inspire my younger students. The only photo I ever allowed to be posted of Chuck Norris was from an article in Black Belt magazine.
The photo was of Chuck Norris arm-in-arm with Hank Williams JR. both holding long-neck Budweisers and being escorted out of a bar by a mixed group of bouncers and law enforcement for "causing a disturbance"


Ok so basically Chuck Norris is an all-in-one god?
Then it also has several 9th level spells I'd say, although it's not that important.

Because he has all, he could use every divination spell and feature to know exactly when the fight would be, and in what condition.
Because he has Sorcerer, he could also Extend buff any and every buff for the fight, that normally lasts at least 10 minutes.

So when entering fight, he has at least...
- Foresight
- 8th level Elemental Weapon
- 9th level Armor of Agathys.
- 9th level Fire Shield.
- Longstrider
- etc etc.
He also has Draconic Wings (so fly) to add to Monk (30), Barb (10), Bladesinger (10) extra speed.

We could also consider Sacred Weapon, but that may be pushing things...

He basically rushes to the face of the creature and makes every weapon attack available, so Action Surge (4) + Attack (4) then drop heavy weapon to draw rapier and Quicken Command ("Attack") while allowing himself to be hit.

Attacks would each deal: 1d10 (weapon) + 5 (STR) + 10 (GWM) + 4 (Rage) + 5 (Oathbreaker) +3d4 (Elemental Weapon) + 5d8 (4th level slot smite) + 1d8 (Improved Divine Smite).
With a hit succeeded on Chuck, enemy takes himself damage from both Fire Shield (9d8?) and Armor of Agathys (9d8?). And triggers "Giant Killer" so Chuck can hit with Sneak Attack damage + smite + rage + IDS + Oathbreaker bonus.
Or enemy misses, then Chuck can use Riposte immediately, or wait for it to move (Sentinel + Warcaster) to make the attack with Booming Blade.

Dont have time to go into detail and make the maths or double-check I didn't miss any significant feature (disclaimer: I very probably did XD) but it should amount to a fair enough amount of damage. ;)

I don't think any of the non-concentration spells are really worth their cost in smite damage, as you are still limited in slots. Defensively they are good, but as far as DPR, they aren't doing much. Also -5/+10 feats are a nerf to your overall DPR, at least when trying to burst it's not worth the miss chance. Sadly even raging isn't worth it as the bonus action is better spent on more attacks.


Ambuscade: Punch with Quivering Palm

Action: Bestow Curse (Constitution)
Bonus Action: Quickened Bane
Action Surge: End Quivering Palm
Reaction: Bend Luck (Subtract)

DC 19 saving throw vs (at max) +13. With bend luck and Bane, this equates to -5 on average with disadvantage. At +8 vs DC 19, he succeeds 45% of the time. Use portents as necessary.

The Thief capstone isn't even needed.

Minimum Level: 31 (OH Monk 17, Wild Sorcerer 6, Caster 5, Fighter 2, Ranger 1)

You can't quicken bane and cast Bestow Curse.

I like these quivering palm strategies, but most tough foes have legendary saves.

Also I said PHB only. Busted Ambuscade is not needed for this busted character.:smalltongue:

Pichu
2017-10-24, 12:47 PM
You can't quicken bane and cast Bestow Curse.

I like these quivering palm strategies, but most tough foes have legendary saves.

Also I said PHB only. Busted Ambuscade is not needed for this busted character.:smalltongue:

Sorry, I didn't see the PHB only rule.:smallredface: I fixed my build. Moved the spellcasting around (thought Bane was a cantrip:smalltongue:), and it says that that the bonus action spell-thing that ruins so many builds applies per turn, so YAY!

Citan
2017-10-24, 01:03 PM
I don't think any of the non-concentration spells are really worth their cost in smite damage, as you are still limited in slots. Defensively they are good, but as far as DPR, they aren't doing much. Also -5/+10 feats are a nerf to your overall DPR, at least when trying to burst it's not worth the miss chance. Sadly even raging isn't worth it as the bonus action is better spent on more attacks.

I think you totally overlooked my post. ;)

1. You don't care that much about to-hit ratio, between advantage (extended Foresight), maxed STR, and Elemental Weapon (+3).

2. Even if you consider that Chuck Norris ultimately has only a normal caster level 20, you can still use 9th level slot on Armor of Agathys, 8th slot on Elemental Weapon, and use a short rest to convert as many Warlock slots as you need (in addition to normal Sorcerer spells if needed) to easily get the required 10*4th levels you need to maximize smite damage.

3. Rage is always on because it ends only when you are incapacitated so it's basically on as soon as Chuck gets up.

4. Fire Shield is just for fluff, but armor of Agathys is 45 damage, so easily amounting to an extra attack, or two, depending on how hard you can hit.

Really, this is PHB only, "RAW" only (works with normal casting), and you will have a real hard time beating that. :)

PeteNutButter
2017-10-24, 01:31 PM
I think you totally overlooked my post. ;)

1. You don't care that much about to-hit ratio, between advantage (extended Foresight), maxed STR, and Elemental Weapon (+3).
*snip*


It's a bit against the spirit of the challenge to presume you can buff... With short rest sorcery points and warlock slots you could potentially have infinite slots, but again that falls into preparing. I should have been more clear in the OP, that it is just "roll initiative," no prep time. Under the same light, just because he has unlimited rages, doesn't presume he is raging out of combat. I edited the OP to make the scenario more clear.

As for not caring about to-hit ratio:

Even with elemental weapon you only have a 69.8% hit chance with GWM, compared to a 91% hit chance without. Your average hit without GWM does 1d10+6d8+3d4+17 times 91% plus another 4d10+6d8+3d4 27.8% (14.71) of the time is a DPR per attack of 66.58. If you use GWM it's 1d10+6d8+3d4+25 times 69.8% plus another 4d10+6d8+3d4 27.8% of the time, making the DPR of GWM attacks 60.08. Since the damage is already so high, GWM actually makes you deal less damage.

Deleted
2017-10-24, 01:47 PM
Probably step up and get the crap kicked out of him by a Monk wearing a yellow outfit and a weird bowl cut.

Citan
2017-10-24, 05:36 PM
It's a bit against the spirit of the challenge to presume you can buff... With short rest sorcery points and warlock slots you could potentially have infinite slots, but again that falls into preparing. I should have been more clear in the OP, that it is just "roll initiative," no prep time. Under the same light, just because he has unlimited rages, doesn't presume he is raging out of combat. I edited the OP to make the scenario more clear.

As for not caring about to-hit ratio:

Even with elemental weapon you only have a 69.8% hit chance with GWM, compared to a 91% hit chance without. Your average hit without GWM does 1d10+6d8+3d4+17 times 91% plus another 4d10+6d8+3d4 27.8% (14.71) of the time is a DPR per attack of 66.58. If you use GWM it's 1d10+6d8+3d4+25 times 69.8% plus another 4d10+6d8+3d4 27.8% of the time, making the DPR of GWM attacks 60.08. Since the damage is already so high, GWM actually makes you deal less damage.

1. Foresight
Sorry but advantage from Foresight is fair. Don't forget I spoke about Extended Foresight. Foresight lasts 8h. Extended lasts 16h. I see no reason why Chuck wouldn't spend it every day before going to spleep unless he's totally sure there won't be any need for it tomorrow.
But besides this, if it really bothers you, Barbarian has Reckless Attack anyways so he WILL get advantage on attacks. And Elusive from Rogue's 18 means you don't even suffer the usual disadvantage. Or there is also Assassinate (since you will get highest Initiative, see below).

Also, at level 20 you can rage unlimited number of times, and rages ends only when unconscious, so there is no reason why Chuck wouldn't be raging permanently.

2. Preparation in general
You have Cleric's Divination spell, who allows you to ask a "a single question regarding a specific goal, event or activity to occur in the next 7 days. DM offers a truthful reply".
So you can just ask "when is the next time I have to fight a creature capable of threatening my life?" (or better, at which day and time").
DM dependent indeed. If he feels that it's too powerful a use for Dinivation, lets use Divine Intervention: at level 20 it's auto-success: "warn me exactly 5 minutes (or more as you wish) before I encounter a creature that I cannot kill without casting high-level spells". Formulation is very lacking admiteddly but you get the idea.
IF the DM thinks it's still an improper use of the spell...

Then, considering you WILL get higher Initiative (5 from DEX + 2 from Jack of All Trades + 5 from Alert + +5 from Swashbuckler Reliable Talent from Rogue + Peerless Skill from Bard + advantage from Barbarian lvl 7), just use Time Stop as your first action in your first turn: you can cast 8th level Elemental Weapon, 7th level Armor of Agathys, then whatever else you like for the remaining spells, or for example activate Sacred Weapon, then take the normal turn I suggested.

Beyond that, another simple thing to do is prepare a Contingency with a spell, although from what I remember the level of spell is capped to 4th so it's kinda limited (AFB for now).

3. Chance to hit
With advantage (as explained, it's fair whatever way you get it), with +5 STR, and War Cleric's Channel Divinity (+10), and possibly Sacred Weapon with Time Stop (+5), you succeed on your first attack: your to-hit is 5 (STR)+ 6 (proficiency) + 10 (War), you already have +21 to hit whatever happens. Add either Sacred Weapon or Elemental Weapon, and you are sure to hit an AC 23, no questions asked, at least on that first attack.
So in fact advantage from Foresight is unneeded, as well as Lucky.
Even more since, on that first weapon attack, you will apply Stunning Strike (CON save) and Trip Attack (STR save), with DC 19 against both, and ability to at least use Diviner's Portent to ensure it miss the save, or go as far as using Wild Magic's Bend Luck as a reaction.

At worst, you will have to make the same Stunning Strike + Trip Attack combo if creature had Legendary saves, one or two more times, in the strange case you didn't have Foresight and you just want advantage.
Or you could just use Precision Attack on all your remaining attacks, which is in fact just better because Stunning Strike will help burn through Legendary Resistances far before you run out of attacks.

In short...
Either you admit technically Foresight is fair, and Chuck doesn't use Time Stop: then advantage on attacks made with +11 without any buff, against AC 23 = 70% without crit mechanic. Let's not forget crit means auto-hit on a 18, 19, or 20. So technically the "miss range" is further restricted, so probability to hit is certainly closer to >80%. Anyways...

Either you don't admit to Foresight, then Chuck uses Timestop: Elemental Weapon + Sacred Weapon adds +8 to hit. So now you have +20 to hit. Your only way to fail is to roll 1 or 2.
And you can use Precision Attack, which is a guaranteed 1.
So basically your only way to fail an attack is making a critical failure. Oh, wait! That doesn't exist in 5E!
So unless you use GWM, you are sure to hit.
With GWM, you drop down to "only" +15, so putting aside potential Channel Divinity AND potential Precision Attack (6+1 times) AND potential Lucky (3 times) AND natural hit on 18/19/20, you have 65% chance to hit.

With Foresight (or just Reckless Attack) and Timestop as first action, then you have nearly 90% chance to hit, again, without accounting crit mechanics and potential "instant buffs" (and I certainly forgot some other ways to buff one particular attack too). So unless you roll very unlucky on Precision Attack after rolling very unlucky on a roll and no way to alter it left, you are sure to hit.

While we are at it...

4. Slots
As a "normal fullcaster", Chuck as the following distribution: 4/3/3/3/3/2/2/1/1.
As a Wizard, you get Arcane Recovery for another "10 distributable" slot levels.
As a Land Druid, you get the same.
As a Sorcerer, you have 20 sorcery points, with 4 replenishing on a short rest, and ability to convert slots.
As a Warlock, you have 4*5th level slots, which replenish on a short rest, plus 1/long rest minute to replenish, plus one cast of 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th level spell.
As a Wizard, you get one free 1st level and one free 2nd level spell, plus two 3rd level spells that can be cast once/short rest.
As a Champion, you get replenishable HP past half-life, plus Second Wind if needed, and as a Paladin Ancients you also get regeneration.
As an Abjuration Wizard, Paladin, Monk and Bear Barbarian, you get advantage on saves, immunity to many things, resistance against all damage (psychic coming from a Warlock patron), +6+5+5 on all saves and ability to reroll, AC of 20 (Barbarian Unarmored) + 5 (Bladesinger if you don't use GWM), free Shield, advantage against you (Foresight, or Monk's Empty Body during Timestop).
With all of this, why should you care about having anything else with your normal slots than 4th level ones (for smiting) and 7th, 8th and 9th level ones (for actual casting)?

Creating a 4th level slot costs 6 points. Without even using a short rest dedicated to that, just converting 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th and 6th level slots should be enough to pump out 8 to 10 4th level slots for smiting.
Just using the Warlock's level 20 ability to replenish slots once in one minute, and using the two groups (before/after ability) would net you 8*5=20 SP, just add a few sorcery points to net 6*4th level slots, to go with the initial 3.
Or convert 1st and 2nd level slots to get SP then use Arcane Recovery to replenish, rinse and repeat.

Basically, Chuck could just spend a few minutes after getting up, while the pig is roasting itself for Chuck (Chuck doesn't need to cook, animals gladly die for him), to pump slots corresponding to his usual strategy.
He could also just spend one Extended Rope Trick to ensure he can do that deal while using only short-rest replenishable resources (4 SP, 4*5th slots, "distributed-10" slots) to prepare slots that fit his strategy before really starting his adventuring day. Or do this while in his Magnificent Mansion in fact.

In the worst of the worst case, with creature waking it up in bed, he can just directly blow Warlock's 5*4 slots (even if it's overkill for smite), his own 3*4th normal slots, then either use lower slots or blow 6th level slot, or convert SP into slot during one turn of Timestop (since you get at least 2 turns). He still has enough to put a maxed smite on 5+3 = 8 attacks, so Attack + Action Surge attack.

-----
Sorry mate, my reasoning has no flaws, except for the fact I forgot that Bladesong was needed for the extra INT to damage (but then fortunately TimeStop covers that too). And that I probably forgot many other cool things Chuck could do to further enhance his to-hit or damage...

- all the extra weapon attack damage from Cleric domains,
- or Death/Tempest Channel Divinity features (also you can use CD several times in a single turn it seems),
- or the extra +4 STR from Barbarian 20 which means that STR mod is actually +7 and not +5 among other things,
- or Barbarian's extra dice on criticals,
- or Rogue's Stroke of Luck to turn a miss into a hit,
- or Mastermind's "roll again a missed attack",
- or Thief's "extra turn at Init-10"),
- or Paladin's ISD (or did I include it? Doesn't remember XD)
- or the 4E Monk's Fangs of Fire Snake which may be a sure-hit alternative to GWM for extra 1d10 damage per ki per attack.

Besides, what did you expect? You were the one setting the insane postulate that Chuck gets everything all in one.
Even Power Word Kill, the most letal single-target spell, won't have any effect for creatures over 100 HP.
Whereas you have so many ways to enhance the hit-chance and damage of weapon attacks, either permanently or temporarily. With most of them being melee-geared.
From this, it was obvious that the best way to achieve maximum damage was the longest chain possible of melee attacks, while making a way to achieve also Sneak Attack damage and other forms of damage.

I don't think even lightning-based shenanigans (Storm Sorcerer + Tempest Cleric + Evoker Wizard + Fighter) would come half-close to the output of damage those ultra-buffed "plain" weapon attacks could do.
Even Quivering Palm is outright inferior because you can have only one active at a time, and use a full action to try, targeting a Constitution save (arguably common and possibly protected through Legendary resistance).

The only other possible way to best my suggested course of action may be to start the offensive turn with a Quickened Hold Person/Monster enforced with Bend Luck and Portent, unless creature has Legendary Resistances. Otherwise it may be your best opener, because you may well miss but on a success you get the enemy paralyzed to every attack will be auto-crit. And to help Hold hit, if you used Time Stop, you could Hide as a bonus action before, then Magical Ambush impose disadvantage. Or you could, in the turn you cast Time Stop, have instead Quickened it to make a first set of attacks with Attack action, enabling the Eldricht Strike for later.

AC 23 with no other resistance is just a useless, defenseless practice target no matter you look at it, sorry. Even 10000 HP wouldn't make any difference. :)
You'd need at least AC 30, +20 to hit and +12 to all saves to give it any fighting chance.

PeteNutButter
2017-10-24, 07:21 PM
1. Foresight
Sorry but advantage from Foresight is fair. Don't forget I spoke about Extended Foresight. Foresight lasts 8h. Extended lasts 16h. I see no reason why Chuck wouldn't spend it every day before going to spleep unless he's totally sure there won't be any need for it tomorrow.
But besides this, if it really bothers you, Barbarian has Reckless Attack anyways so he WILL get advantage on attacks. And Elusive from Rogue's 18 means you don't even suffer the usual disadvantage. Or there is also Assassinate (since you will get highest Initiative, see below).

Also, at level 20 you can rage unlimited number of times, and rages ends only when unconscious, so there is no reason why Chuck wouldn't be raging permanently.

2. Preparation in general
You have Cleric's Divination spell, who allows you to ask a "a single question regarding a specific goal, event or activity to occur in the next 7 days. DM offers a truthful reply".
So you can just ask "when is the next time I have to fight a creature capable of threatening my life?" (or better, at which day and time").
DM dependent indeed. If he feels that it's too powerful a use for Dinivation, lets use Divine Intervention: at level 20 it's auto-success: "warn me exactly 5 minutes (or more as you wish) before I encounter a creature that I cannot kill without casting high-level spells". Formulation is very lacking admiteddly but you get the idea.
IF the DM thinks it's still an improper use of the spell...

Then, considering you WILL get higher Initiative (5 from DEX + 2 from Jack of All Trades + 5 from Alert + +5 from Swashbuckler Reliable Talent from Rogue + Peerless Skill from Bard + advantage from Barbarian lvl 7), just use Time Stop as your first action in your first turn: you can cast 8th level Elemental Weapon, 7th level Armor of Agathys, then whatever else you like for the remaining spells, or for example activate Sacred Weapon, then take the normal turn I suggested.

Beyond that, another simple thing to do is prepare a Contingency with a spell, although from what I remember the level of spell is capped to 4th so it's kinda limited (AFB for now).

3. Chance to hit
With advantage (as explained, it's fair whatever way you get it), with +5 STR, and War Cleric's Channel Divinity (+10), and possibly Sacred Weapon with Time Stop (+5), you succeed on your first attack: your to-hit is 5 (STR)+ 6 (proficiency) + 10 (War), you already have +21 to hit whatever happens. Add either Sacred Weapon or Elemental Weapon, and you are sure to hit an AC 23, no questions asked, at least on that first attack.
So in fact advantage from Foresight is unneeded, as well as Lucky.
Even more since, on that first weapon attack, you will apply Stunning Strike (CON save) and Trip Attack (STR save), with DC 19 against both, and ability to at least use Diviner's Portent to ensure it miss the save, or go as far as using Wild Magic's Bend Luck as a reaction.

At worst, you will have to make the same Stunning Strike + Trip Attack combo if creature had Legendary saves, one or two more times, in the strange case you didn't have Foresight and you just want advantage.
Or you could just use Precision Attack on all your remaining attacks, which is in fact just better because Stunning Strike will help burn through Legendary Resistances far before you run out of attacks.

In short...
Either you admit technically Foresight is fair, and Chuck doesn't use Time Stop: then advantage on attacks made with +11 without any buff, against AC 23 = 70% without crit mechanic. Let's not forget crit means auto-hit on a 18, 19, or 20. So technically the "miss range" is further restricted, so probability to hit is certainly closer to >80%. Anyways...

Either you don't admit to Foresight, then Chuck uses Timestop: Elemental Weapon + Sacred Weapon adds +8 to hit. So now you have +20 to hit. Your only way to fail is to roll 1 or 2.
And you can use Precision Attack, which is a guaranteed 1.
So basically your only way to fail an attack is making a critical failure. Oh, wait! That doesn't exist in 5E!
So unless you use GWM, you are sure to hit.
With GWM, you drop down to "only" +15, so putting aside potential Channel Divinity AND potential Precision Attack (6+1 times) AND potential Lucky (3 times) AND natural hit on 18/19/20, you have 65% chance to hit.

With Foresight (or just Reckless Attack) and Timestop as first action, then you have nearly 90% chance to hit, again, without accounting crit mechanics and potential "instant buffs" (and I certainly forgot some other ways to buff one particular attack too). So unless you roll very unlucky on Precision Attack after rolling very unlucky on a roll and no way to alter it left, you are sure to hit.

While we are at it...

4. Slots
As a "normal fullcaster", Chuck as the following distribution: 4/3/3/3/3/2/2/1/1.
As a Wizard, you get Arcane Recovery for another "10 distributable" slot levels.
As a Land Druid, you get the same.
As a Sorcerer, you have 20 sorcery points, with 4 replenishing on a short rest, and ability to convert slots.
As a Warlock, you have 4*5th level slots, which replenish on a short rest, plus 1/long rest minute to replenish, plus one cast of 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th level spell.
As a Wizard, you get one free 1st level and one free 2nd level spell, plus two 3rd level spells that can be cast once/short rest.
As a Champion, you get replenishable HP past half-life, plus Second Wind if needed, and as a Paladin Ancients you also get regeneration.
As an Abjuration Wizard, Paladin, Monk and Bear Barbarian, you get advantage on saves, immunity to many things, resistance against all damage (psychic coming from a Warlock patron), +6+5+5 on all saves and ability to reroll, AC of 20 (Barbarian Unarmored) + 5 (Bladesinger if you don't use GWM), free Shield, advantage against you (Foresight, or Monk's Empty Body during Timestop).
With all of this, why should you care about having anything else with your normal slots than 4th level ones (for smiting) and 7th, 8th and 9th level ones (for actual casting)?

Creating a 4th level slot costs 6 points. Without even using a short rest dedicated to that, just converting 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th and 6th level slots should be enough to pump out 8 to 10 4th level slots for smiting.
Just using the Warlock's level 20 ability to replenish slots once in one minute, and using the two groups (before/after ability) would net you 8*5=20 SP, just add a few sorcery points to net 6*4th level slots, to go with the initial 3.
Or convert 1st and 2nd level slots to get SP then use Arcane Recovery to replenish, rinse and repeat.

Basically, Chuck could just spend a few minutes after getting up, while the pig is roasting itself for Chuck (Chuck doesn't need to cook, animals gladly die for him), to pump slots corresponding to his usual strategy.
He could also just spend one Extended Rope Trick to ensure he can do that deal while using only short-rest replenishable resources (4 SP, 4*5th slots, "distributed-10" slots) to prepare slots that fit his strategy before really starting his adventuring day. Or do this while in his Magnificent Mansion in fact.

-----
Sorry mate, my reasoning has no flaws, except for the fact I forgot that Bladesong was needed for the extra INT to damage (but then fortunately TimeStop covers that too). And that I probably forgot many other cool things Chuck could do to further enhance his to-hit or damage...
Like, as I just realized, all the extra weapon attack damage from Cleric domains, or Death/Tempest Channel Divinity features (also you can use CD several times in a single turn it seems), or the extra +4 STR from Barbarian 20 which means that STR mod is actually +7 and not +5 among other things, or Rogue's Stroke of Luck to turn a miss into a hit,or Mastermind's "roll again a missed attack", or Thief's "extra turn at Init-10").

Besides, what did you expect? You were the one setting the insane postulate that Chuck gets everything all in one.
Even Power Word Kill, the most letal single-target spell, won't have any effect for creatures over 100 HP.
Whereas you have so many ways to enhance the hit-chance and damage of weapon attacks, either permanently or temporarily. With most of them being melee-geared.
From this, it was obvious that the best way to achieve maximum damage was the longest chain possible of melee attacks, while making a way to achieve also Sneak Attack damage and other forms of damage.

Of course attacks will do the most damage :smallbiggrin:. I just like figuring out which attacks and how to organize them to maximize damage.

With timestop, you have the chance to put out the buffs, but depending on how it works, might cost a round of 4 attacks. I've never seen it in play, and it's not the best worded spell. If you attack does it end immediately? Do you get to finish your attack action? I'm not sure. Even if you miss out on 4 attacks, it might still be worth it. Losing 4 attacks out of 20 to make the other 16 that much better.

Foresight is irrelevant as you can recklessly attack.

The crit chance does not affect your hit chance, because all of your crits would already have hit. You do automatically miss on 1's in 5e (phb pg. 194), just don't auto-fail saves.

I totally missed the 5d8 extra damage a turn for the cleric domains, good catch.

Bladesinger isn't phb, nor is mastermind.

Citan
2017-10-24, 07:56 PM
Of course attacks will do the most damage :smallbiggrin:. I just like figuring out which attacks and how to organize them to maximize damage.

With timestop, you have the chance to put out the buffs, but depending on how it works, might cost a round of 4 attacks. I've never seen it in play, and it's not the best worded spell. If you attack does it end immediately? Do you get to finish your attack action? I'm not sure. Even if you miss out on 4 attacks, it might still be worth it. Losing 4 attacks out of 20 to make the other 16 that much better.

Foresight is irrelevant as you can recklessly attack.

The crit chance does not affect your hit chance, because all of your crits would already have hit. You do automatically miss on 1's in 5e (phb pg. 194), just don't auto-fail saves.

I totally missed the 5d8 extra damage a turn for the cleric domains, good catch.

Bladesinger isn't phb, nor is mastermind.
As I said, just Quicken Timestop and you are set. Worst case you get two turns.
1st turn: Sacred Weapon as action, Quicken 8th level Elemental Weapon as a bonus action.
2nd turn: 7th Armor of Agathys as an action, Bladesong as a bonus action.
Ooops, forgot that Bladesong was out.
Then... maybe Ancient Paladin's aura as action, quicken Armor of Agathys?
Not sure about best course for 2nd turn since, well, you are already overkill.
Let's go for the "Chuck actually has to rage on purpose" (although honestly I find this stupid because there is really no reason to NOT be raging all the time XD).

So...
Minimum Initiative = 10 (Reliable Talent) + 17 (stacked bonus: Swash, Jack of all Trades, Alert, Dex) = 27.
Average Initiative = 15 (51% chance to roll thanks to advantage) + 17 (stacked bonus) + 6 (half of Peerless Skill) = 38.
Maximum Initiative = 20 (Lucky/Portent) + 17 + 10 (max Peerless Skill IIRC) = 47.
All the while: creature's Initative can be affected by Cutting Words (DM dependent since it "uses a reaction" and Initiative has technically not be rolled yet, but I don't see why one would forbid it) or Portent. May end as low as <15.

Reckless Attack + Elusive + blindsight = perma-advantage.
You have Channel Divinity (War: +10 if needed, and Lucky, and all those other "to-hit" features) AND 7 Manoeuver dices (class + Martial Adept).

Turn 0 (Highest Initiative count): Attack (No GWM, Stunning Strike, just to enable Eldricht Strike), Quicken Timestop.
Turn 1 (Timestop): Sacred Weapon / Quicken 8th level Elemental Weapon.
Turn 2 (Timestop): 7th level Armor of Agathys / Rage.
(other turns may happen with luck roll, for Quickened Mirror Image and Ancients Paladin action for example).
Turn 3 (Thief's Reflexes, Initiative -10, very probable it's still higher than enemy's): Attack + Extra Attack with, on each attack, GWM+smite+IDS+Oathbreaker+Lifedrinker.
To-hit: 6+7+5+3=21, with advantage.
Chance to fail (roll 1) = 1% without GWM
You can use Precision attack for minimum +1, ensuring a hit, if you REALLY need it.

Chance to fail with GWM (need a roll of 7) = 9%
You can use one of the reroll features, or use Precision (average roll 6), or War CD, to really ensure you succeed.
With all those features, you can probably guarantee GWM on at least 4 attacks.
With that said, I agree with you that you can perfectly ditch it: instead, make attacks with a Monk weapon (1d10, +2 thanks to Dueling). Will still probably overkill the creature by a large margin anyways... XD

Anyways. Thanks to all those attacks, Command should work fine (Eldricht Strike). Of course if you don't have your reaction available (because you used it at Initiative time), then obviously it would be better to cast a Quickened Hold Monster at start of the turn. Anyways...
With Command and hit (I don't see any DM refusing you to take a hit on purpose -anyways otherwise just keep a dice for "Riposte" manoeuver) monster takes 35 flat cold damage.
Then comes your attack: worst case, "simple" Rapier weapon attack, on which, for the sake of classyness, you stack every Cleric Domain extra damage: 2d8 radiant (Life), 2d8 fire (Nature), 2d8 thunder (Tempest), 2d8 poison (Trickery), and let's bar 2d8 necrotic since DMG options are forbidden. Don't forget about Sneak Attack.
Best case, it was a plain opportunity attack so you can use Warcaster's Booming Blade together with Tempest CD if you had one use left for maximized damage. Good thing you barred SCAG too, because otherwise, you could have made Booming Blade a Cleric cantrip (Arcana), thus getting 3*WIS bonus damage (Light/Knoledge/Arcana) on top of all that.

Also, as I said, if we know the creature has no Legendary Resistance, then open turn 3 with Quickened (Bend Luck + Portent) Hold Person then enjoy the crit fest (how to make GWF style shine ^^).

Moosoculars
2017-10-26, 07:43 AM
Ok Here is my "stab" at this

Chuck will always hit AC23 with 10 average roll + 7 Str + 6 Prof +10 War Cleric channel Divinity -5 Great Weapon Master
is AC 28. From being a cleric of all 7 Domains he has 21 uses of Channel Divinity (and more from Paladin)

Basic Attack is with a Greatsword Pact Weapon

7 (Great Sword 2D6 ) + 7 Strength + 4 Rage + 5 Life Drinker + 10 Great Weapon Master + Smite 6D8 (assuming a Fiend or undead Opponent) + 4.5 Improved Divine Smite = 64.5 Damage per Strike.

4 Attacks from Fighter = 258 Damage

Action Surge for 3 more of these attacks 193.5 Damage

Then he drops his Greatsword, Draws a Rapier and attacks

4.5 Rapier + 7 STR + 4 Rage + 2 Dueling + 27 Smite = 49 Damage.

Total from these 8 attacks so far is 500.5 Damage.

Repeat this on the Theif's Reflexes Turn but Attack with the Rapier First then scoop up the Greatsword for the other 7 attacks

Total from these 16 attacks is 1001 Damage

Now in these two turns other effects are triggered once only these are

Imp Divine Strike (Life) 9 + Divine Strike Nature (max'd by the Wrath of the Storm Channel Divinity) 16 + Divine Strike Tempest (max'd by the Wrath of the Storm Channel Divinity) 16 + Divine strike Trickster 9 + Divine Strike War 9 + Colossus Slayer 4.5 + 10D6 Sneak attack (Reckless attack provides advantage) + Foe Slayer 5 = 103.5

These effects trigger twice once on the normal go and once on the Thieves Go. 103.5 x 2 = 207
Added to the 1001 so far is 1208

Then once only Battlemaster Dice 6x 1D12 = 39 and Martial Adept 1D6 3.5 for a further 42.5
Added to the 1208 is 1250.5

Then bonus Actions

In one Bonus Action Chuck fires a quickened Scorching Ray at 5th level this is OverChanneled for 72 Damage. + 5 Elemental Affinity + 5 Empowered Envocation for 82 Damage (it is not clear to me if I can cast this at 9th or if i am limited to 5th)

In one Bonus Action He used Fists of the Fire Snake 1D10, Monk Fist 1D10 + 7 Strength + 4 Rage for 22 Damage with 2 attacks for flurry of blows for 44

82 + 44 = 126

To grand total is 1250.5+126 = 1,376.5

mgshamster
2017-10-26, 08:12 AM
All y'all think that Chuck Norris is soooo great, but what about Brian Boitano? What would Brian Boitano do if he were here right now?

He'd probably kick an ass or two, that's what Brian Boitano'd do.

PeteNutButter
2017-10-26, 10:29 AM
Ok Here is my "stab" at this

Chuck will always hit AC23 with 10 average roll + 7 Str + 6 Prof +10 War Cleric channel Divinity -5 Great Weapon Master
is AC 28. From being a cleric of all 7 Domains he has 21 uses of Channel Divinity (and more from Paladin)

Basic Attack is with a Greatsword Pact Weapon

7 (Great Sword 2D6 ) + 7 Strength + 4 Rage + 5 Life Drinker + 10 Great Weapon Master + Smite 6D8 (assuming a Fiend or undead Opponent) + 4.5 Improved Divine Smite = 64.5 Damage per Strike.

4 Attacks from Fighter = 258 Damage

Action Surge for 3 more of these attacks 193.5 Damage

Then he drops his Greatsword, Draws a Rapier and attacks

4.5 Rapier + 7 STR + 4 Rage + 2 Dueling + 27 Smite = 49 Damage.

Total from these 8 attacks so far is 500.5 Damage.

Repeat this on the Theif's Reflexes Turn but Attack with the Rapier First then scoop up the Greatsword for the other 7 attacks

Total from these 16 attacks is 1001 Damage

Now in these two turns other effects are triggered once only these are

Imp Divine Strike (Life) 9 + Divine Strike Nature (max'd by the Wrath of the Storm Channel Divinity) 16 + Divine Strike Tempest (max'd by the Wrath of the Storm Channel Divinity) 16 + Divine strike Trickster 9 + Divine Strike War 9 + Colossus Slayer 4.5 + 10D6 Sneak attack (Reckless attack provides advantage) + Foe Slayer 5 = 103.5

These effects trigger twice once on the normal go and once on the Thieves Go. 103.5 x 2 = 207
Added to the 1001 so far is 1208

Then once only Battlemaster Dice 6x 1D12 = 39 and Martial Adept 1D6 3.5 for a further 42.5
Added to the 1208 is 1250.5

Then bonus Actions

In one Bonus Action Chuck fires a quickened Scorching Ray at 5th level this is OverChanneled for 72 Damage. + 5 Elemental Affinity + 5 Empowered Envocation for 82 Damage (it is not clear to me if I can cast this at 9th or if i am limited to 5th)

In one Bonus Action He used Fists of the Fire Snake 1D10, Monk Fist 1D10 + 7 Strength + 4 Rage for 22 Damage with 2 attacks for flurry of blows for 44

82 + 44 = 126

To grand total is 1250.5+126 = 1,376.5

Alas the channel divinity abilities are granted by the core class with the subclass just granting different uses of them. That gives him only 4 channel divinities.

Moosoculars
2017-10-26, 04:30 PM
Alas the channel divinity abilities are granted by the core class with the subclass just granting different uses of them. That gives him only 4 channel divinities.

I thought Chuck would be a 20th level nature Cleric, a 20th Level War cleric, 20th level Trickery Cleric and so in his progression would pick up Channel Divinity each time. No problem though. Same for everyone. I will have another think.

I think the Smites and spell slots are wrong too as Chuck only has 16 level 4 Smites available, 12 from being a full caster and 4 from warlock.

Chuck will however pick up a 5th Channel Divinity in Paladin

Lombra
2017-10-26, 05:44 PM
He'd probably roundhouse-kick the poor thing and score a triple 20 instakilling the poor thing. Because Chuck Norris' roundhouse kick transcends editions.

Moosoculars
2017-10-26, 07:41 PM
Second Go.

This time time with a little more thought and planning (and Maths)

I think I have the damage by Chuck up to 1,825. and all with a spoon (assuming this can be a Monk / Pack weapon).

Basic plan (for total destruction)
1) Bonus action casting quickened Elemental weapon with a 7th level slot.
2) Attack with spoon (Monk Weapon / Pact Weapon) 4 times
3) Action Surge
4) Attack with spoon (Monk Weapon / Pact Weapon) 4 times
5) Thief Reflexes
6) Attack with Spoon (Monk Weapon / Pact Weapon) 4 times
7) Action Surge
8) Attack with spoon (Monk Weapon / Pact Weapon) 4 times
9) Bonus Action Attack spoon (War Priest) 1 Attack
10) Eat heart of victim (interaction with object) as you calmly stroll away (move)

Bonus to hit
Str +7
Prof +6
Elemental Weapon +3
Normal to hit is +16
All with Advantage because of Reckless attack
Normal chance to hit 0.632 Normal chance to Crit 0.278 (Champion 18-20 range)

This is increased once by Foe Slayer (+5) and War Cleric channel Divinity (+10) Also once Chuck automatically hits with Stroke of Luck.

On Each set of 8 attacks Chuck also gets 3 effective re-rolls. 3 From Lucky and 3 from Portent. This helps ensure that each turn his once a turn damage is a critical and if it is not then it is definitely a hit with Stroke of luck in the first turn.

With 11 rolls (8 attacks + 3 rerolls) the chance of not rolling a critical is 0.0278 so Chuck crits 0.972 of the time. When Chuck Crits the first time in each turn he loads on all the once a turn damage

Regular Damage
Monk Weapon 5.5
Strength 7
Rage 4
Life Drinker 5
Dueling 2
Smite 27 (apart from attacks 16 and 17 where you run out of slots and have to use a 3rd level slot to smite for 22.5)
Improved Divine Smite 4.5
Elemental Weapon 7.5

Total 62.5

Crit Damage
As above with all dice doubled
AND Brutal Critical

Total 140


Once a Turn Damage
Battlemaster Dice 6.5
Divine Strike (Life) 9
Divine Strike (Nature) 16 Max'd by Channel Divinity Wrath of the Storm
Divine Strike (Tempest) 16 Max'd by Channel Divinity Wrath of the Storm
Divine Strike (Trickery) 9
Colossus Slayer 4.5
Sneak Attack 35 (a spoon is definitely a finesse weapon - if you are a purist a small knife for peeling fruit)

In addition and in other strikes Chuck uses the rest of the Battle master dice and the Martial Adept attack and adds 5 from Foe Slayer.

5 channel divinities used (4 Wrath of the storm and 1 War cleric)

First 8 attacks 918.18 + Second 8 Attacks 833.65 + Bonus Attack 73.07 = 1825 Damage

Come Get Some!

Moosoculars
2017-10-26, 07:46 PM
As I said, just Quicken Timestop and you are set. Worst case you get two turns.
1st turn: Sacred Weapon as action, Quicken 8th level Elemental Weapon as a bonus action.
2nd turn: 7th Armor of Agathys as an action, Bladesong as a bonus action.

Turn 0 (Highest Initiative count): Attack (No GWM, Stunning Strike, just to enable Eldricht Strike), Quicken Timestop.
Turn 1 (Timestop): Sacred Weapon / Quicken 8th level Elemental Weapon.
Turn 2 (Timestop): 7th level Armor of Agathys / Rage.
(other turns may happen with luck roll, for Quickened Mirror Image and Ancients Paladin action for example).
Turn 3 (Thief's Reflexes, Initiative -10, very probable it's still higher than enemy's): Attack + Extra Attack with, on each attack, GWM+smite+IDS+Oathbreaker+Lifedrinker.


I think that even though you get multiple Turns from Timestop, you are still limited to casting one SPELL PER ROUND unless the additional spells are cantrips.

So Quickened Timestop Yes, Elemental Weapon or Armour of Agathy's after No

Citan
2017-10-27, 06:22 PM
I think that even though you get multiple Turns from Timestop, you are still limited to casting one SPELL PER ROUND unless the additional spells are cantrips.

So Quickened Timestop Yes, Elemental Weapon or Armour of Agathy's after No
Hmmm. I'd say nope. ;)
Otherwise, how would you be supposed to use Counterspell or Shield as a reaction on someone else's turn?

Besides, PHB's text does specified "you can't cast another spell during the same TURN".

So it's fine. ;)

Conversely, thanks for remining me about the 2nd use of Action Surge.
Depending on how a DM would rule Time Stop's interaction with the turn in which it is cast (does it "end" the current turn, or does it "suspend" it) you could use Action Surge on that same turn and use it on the Thief Reflexes's Turn.
Same for Tempest CD maximizing the bonus weapon damage from Cleric.

I think between both your and mine suggestions, we have the best ever close to reality. :)

I'm a bit wary about your maths though, but I admit it's very hard to theorycraft: even superadvantage (Lucky) won't guaranteee a crit, or I misunderstood you. And Portent, you need some great luck to roll all three in a manner that suits you.

Also, I don't get why "War Cleric bonus action". You just don't care at all about it if you attack with a Monk weapon in the first place, or if you attack with a one-handed weapon basically (wield another then dual-weapon trigger).

Also, since anyways you don't cast many spells, you might as well drop your Monk weapon (or wield a finesse one as you suggest) before the last of 8th attacks, to keep the last...
And instead of making bonus action at the end, use it between Attack and Action Surge Attack to cast a Quickened upcast Lightning Bolt or Chromatic Orb. That way, you get much better maximized damage. ;)

Moosoculars
2017-10-27, 06:46 PM
Hmmm. I'd say nope. ;)
Otherwise, how would you be supposed to use Counterspell or Shield as a reaction on someone else's turn?

Besides, PHB's text does specified "you can't cast another spell during the same TURN".

So it's fine. ;)




Sorry you are correct. I got the Round and Turn wrong. Only 1 actual spell per turn the rest have to be cantrips. PHB pg 202.

Moosoculars
2017-10-27, 07:04 PM
I'm a bit wary about your maths though, but I admit it's very hard to theorycraft: even superadvantage (Lucky) won't guaranteee a crit, or I misunderstood you. And Portent, you need some great luck to roll all three in a manner that suits you.



Well the maths is a little tricky to be accurate on each attack when you calculate all of the re-rolls. the part i made most sure of was that the once a turn damage was correct.

By my reckoning Chuck has two sets of 8 attacks (4 + Action Surge) and then can apply either Lucky or Greater Portent (one to each set) to them. The fact that portent is pre-rolled doesn't actually effect the statistical probability of rolling a crit on any given dice.

So over 11 rolls with advantage what is the chance that you will not crit at all? The chance of criting is 0.278 so the chance of Chuck not criting is 0.722. So the chance of him having 11 rolls and not criting is just 0.722 multiplied by itself 11 times or 0.0278. This means that he is likely to crit 0.9722 of the time.

So chucks doesn't apply any of the once a turn damage until he crits in a turn then he loads it all on.

I think this part of the maths is pretty solid. In reality the damage statistically is higher than I calculated because if chuck rolls a 1 and actually misses (a 1 in 400 chance with advantage) then he can simply use a lucky roll to have a further chance to hit. so the chance of a miss is actually 1-8000. (of course it can happen).


As for the War Cleric, War Priest ability. This was the best way to get the extra attack using the same weapon. Chuck wants that because it has the Elemental weapon spell which gives him the extra +3 to hit and 3D4+3 damage. If he dual wields Chuck uses a different weapon and so lose the elemental bonus (and likely you lose the dueling damage for the other 16 attacks - maybe depending on DM's ruling i've seen both)

With Quickened Timestop a few buffs and an overchanneled spell at the end seems would increase the damage.