Wild Shape Form Scaling

[robbie374]

The Moon Druid can transform into a CR 6 beast at level 18, but there aren't many beasts of CR 3 and greater.

What would an easy way to scale up or down other beasts to match the CR a Moon Druid could use?

Alternatively, would opening up Wild Shape to non-beast creatures be viable?

The intent of this question is not to make Moon Druids more powerful, but to give more options at higher levels.

[SharkForce]

more options is more power.

but anyways, the easiest thing to do while keeping it feeling like a beast is probably to go to the DMG guide on assigning CR to monsters, compare their current HP to their current CR, boost it up based on the new CR they want, do the same with attack bonus and damage (remember to give it appropriate proficiency bonus in the process), and then probably assign the animal a larger size if you've increased the stats by much.

not that i'm particularly convinced the moon druid needs it that much anyways.

[Danielqueue1]

opening up Wild Shape to things other than beasts has the possibility of opening up a nasty can of worms. they can already turn into CR 5 elementals at level 10. I would recommend that if you do aprove turning into other creatures it be on a case by case basis in fitting with the balance and theme of the campaign. there are certain abilities that PCs are not intended to have access to.

Consider the Intellect Devourer. (not released to the SRD I think so I can't legally quote the ability here) has the ability to take control of another creature and basically insta-kill it after one failed ability contest. and that is only a CR-2 creature. so if you do allow something other than beasts, be very careful on what you allow.

[PeteNutButter]

Isn't the mammoth CR 6?

Take any creature that is simple attacks with bag of hit points and reflavor it to just be a similar beast.

You are better off starting with a concept. I.E. player wants to be a giant bird. Well somewhere between a giant eagle and a roc is your answer.

[Breashios]

Isn't the mammoth CR 6?

Take any creature that is simple attacks with bag of hit points and reflavor it to just be a similar beast.

You are better off starting with a concept. I.E. player wants to be a giant bird. Well somewhere between a giant eagle and a roc is your answer.

We did this. It worked perfectly. I just kept it to creatures that existed in my world and he never asked to change into anything exotic. If he had observed the creature at any size, I allowed the druid to wild shape to the appropriate size of CR beast of that type. Did not unbalance play and was more realistic than always changing into a mammoth (which did not exist in my world by the way).

[Breashios]

Alternatively, would opening up Wild Shape to non-beast creatures be viable?

I would not in any case where I wanted to keep the existing balance and feel open up Wild Shape to non-beast creatures.

[lunaticfringe]

I would not in any case where I wanted to keep the existing balance and feel open up Wild Shape to non-beast creatures.

Yup. I'm fine with scaling a Beast Shape or 2 because a Player likes being a Spider or Tiger.

[nickl_2000]

From a thematic perspective, I don't think it fits all that well to have a Druid wildshape into something else. That aside, as others said it could be done but would need to be severely limited. You as the DM could easily say "I'm giving you a this monstrocity for CR5, and these two for CR6" If you limited like that you can limit the impact on the world. I don't think it's necessary, but it could be done.

I don't see much of an issue with scaling HP and attack with weaker CR beasts, as long as it's limited as well.

[Citan]

The Moon Druid can transform into a CR 6 beast at level 18, but there aren't many beasts of CR 3 and greater.

What would an easy way to scale up or down other beasts to match the CR a Moon Druid could use?

Alternatively, would opening up Wild Shape to non-beast creatures be viable?

The intent of this question is not to make Moon Druids more powerful, but to give more options at higher levels.
Hi!

There have been several similar questions in the past here, you may want to search for those threads.

My own take on this would be to propose to your player...

1. to choose a CR 1 beast that would become its "totem beast" or "favorite beast", whatever fluff you like.
And ONLY when he uses this form he gets to add...
- Half of his own proficiency bonus to every roll (first idea was full proficiency bonus but I'm afraid this gets out of hand fast) and AC.
- Extra HP equal to his Druid level.
This will make that beast form significantly more powerful, but not breaking things to much if one day your player reach level 20.

OR.
2. Pick that one creature, and give...
- WIS mod bonus to every roll
- Extra HP equal to 5*Druid level
BUT say that it's only once per short rest and you cannot make new normal wild shape (even "normal") before taking a rest, no matter what (so even working against level 20's "unlimited shapes").

OR.
3. Say that...
- Whenever he Wild Shapes as a creature of a CR inferior to his capacity, the difference in CR is added as a bonus to all rolls and AC.
- He can consume both uses of a Wild Shape at once (like for Elemental Forms) to add 3*Druid level as extra HP.
BUT he never gets "Unlimited Shapes" should he reach level 20: instead, he gets the second benefit without the additional consumption.

Option 1 is what I would do: not that hard to track (half proficiency bonus is easy to remember and wont change often), can enforce a special aspect of the character, without requiring any other change to the class.

Option 2 may be a good alternative for "higher exhaustion for higher power feel".

Option 3 I put here for information but would advise against, unless your player and yourself don't mind the thick layer of added complexity/booktracking.

[GlenSmash!]

More Beasts! Does Volo's have more? I'm sure Tome of Beasts does.

[lunaticfringe]

More Beasts! Does Volo's have more? I'm sure Tome of Beasts does.

Dinosaurs which are Skub & some minor ones.

[Cyan Wisp]

Hi, if you are open to 3rd Party: DM's Guild has Pay What You Want creature packs available such as:

More Bears (http://www.dmsguild.com/product/203586/More-Bears)

and

5e Monster Expansion (http://www.dmsguild.com/product/171463/DD-5e-Monster-Expansion)

I'm sure there are many more!

From these products, I got "Greater" versions of Lion (CR 4), Wolf (CR 4), Tiger (CR 5), Ape (CR 3), and Cave Bear (CR 6).

In More Bears, though, there is one creature: the Igneoursine that should really be reclassified as Monstrosity, IMO as it certainly goes beyond normal, natural features.