Reaping Mauler (yes, I know, but help me on this one)

[Arael666]

I know how bad the class is, I know it makes you worse a grappling, I even know about the issue with size increases, or at least I thought I knew.

Long story short, my friend wanted to go reaping mauler, I proceeded to lecture him on how that was a bad idea till I pointed the issue with size increases, that's when he simply said "you're wrong, the prerequisite is having the feat, not being able to use it".

I just couldn't respond, it never occurred that to me, I checked the complete warrior and it seems that there is no rule on that and the srd simply states that "A character can’t use a feat if he or she has lost a prerequisite.", emphasis on "can't use" not "lose".

Is my friend right? the consensus seems to be that I'm right, but I'm not sure anymore.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Hmm. You know, your friend might be onto something there. You definitely still have the feat if you stop meeting the prereqs--the PHB makes that pretty clear. You just don't get the benefits of said feat.

[Darrin]

I just couldn't respond, it never occurred that to me, I checked the complete warrior and it seems that there is no rule on that and the srd simply states that "A character can’t use a feat if he or she has lost a prerequisite.", emphasis on "can't use" not "lose".

Is my friend right? the consensus seems to be that I'm right, but I'm not sure anymore.

Your friend is technically correct by RAW. If you lose a prereq, you can't use the feat, but you still "have" it, and can regain the use of it by obtaining the necessary prereq again. Complete Warrior has similar language that applies to PrCs (page 16), but doesn't refer to feats, presumably because the PHB already had a rule to cover this.

Reaping Mauler is actually an 8-level PrC. The first three levels are Leviathan Hunter in Stormwrack, which gives you Clever Wrestling as a bonus feat even if you don't qualify for it. (Too bad the feat doesn't actually make you any better at grappling.)

[TheFamilarRaven]

Prestige classes offer a new form of multiclassing. Unlike the basic classes, characters must meet Requirements before they can take their first level of a prestige class. The rules for level advancement apply to this system, meaning the first step of advancement is always choosing a class. If a character does not meet the Requirements for a prestige class before that first step, that character cannot take the first level of that prestige class. Taking a prestige class does not incur the experience point penalties normally associated with multiclassing.


So they must possess the feat upon taking the first level, but according to this they can retrain it to something else at no cost to taking levels in Reaping Mauler.


That being said, if the Reaping Mauler on D&D tools is the same as the class printed in the books (don't have my copy of CWar with me), it's still a terrible class. The action economy just isn't there with grappling, the class itself only gives moderate boosts to grappling and the saves on their unique class features become laughable. Thus, I don't think the feat is really the problem with the class.

[Arael666]

So they must possess the feat upon taking the first level, but according to this they can retrain it to something else at no cost to taking levels in Reaping Mauler.


That being said, if the Reaping Mauler on D&D tools is the same as the class printed in the books (don't have my copy of CWar with me), it's still a terrible class. The action economy just isn't there with grappling, the class itself only gives moderate boosts to grappling and the saves on their unique class features become laughable. Thus, I don't think the feat is really the problem with the class.

yeah, I totally agree with you. I asked not to prove a point or anything, my friend agrees that the class is crap (not only because of the size increase problem) we moved beyond that and we're exclusively discussing if he actually loses his class features when subjected to a size increase above medium. So far the RAW seems to be that it doesn't, because the character still has the feat, he just can't use it, and to lose your class features you'd have to actually lose your feat, since complete warrior specifically states that "If a character no longer meets the requirements for a prestige class, he or she loses the benefi t of any class features or other special abilities granted by the class."

[Darrin]

I am now curious if this PC will ever actually *need* to use Clever Wrestling, as it only helps you get out of a grapple, and presumably a Reaping Mauler would much rather prefer to stay inside the grapple.

Question to anyone who's ever played a Reaping Mauler (or some other optimized grappler): did you ever *want* to get out of a grapple?

[AvatarVecna]

Regardless of whether the feat bars you from size-changing magic, it doesn't change the fact that the class itself gives you mediocre bonuses to grappling, does nothing to counter the normal grappling counters, can't deal anywhere close to decent damage to a target it's grappling even if made arbitrarily Colossal, and would be far better off damage-wise built as a full-flurry-attack colossal-fist monk even if they have the "spend three full round actions keeping this person pinned, and they have to save-or-die" (since Colossal-Fist Monk 10 is looking at 9 attacks dealing 8d6+10 in that same time frame, the target will be taking probably 40d6+50 which is quite a lot of damage for a monster around that level to take and still be standing).

[Necrov]

Question to anyone who's ever played a Reaping Mauler (or some other optimized grappler): did you ever *want* to get out of a grapple?

Yes. On the rare occasion that something with a better grapple score than you turns up. Usually when I played, this was whenever I was grabbed by a huge creature.


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Hi there, I played an Elven Fighter/Reaping Mauler build in a campaign for a couple of years and enjoyed it immensely. It's definitely not optimised, but if you aren't a group of munchkins, it's no worse than say... straight fighter.

I did a few things to give myself a meaningful specialisation. I was doing two weapon fighting with spiked gauntlets (admittedly, purely an aesthetic choice for me, there are better options). With one of my spiked gauntlets being a warning gauntlet (to give me a bonus to my initiative) and improved initiative along with a passable dex score, I was reliably getting the jump on most people in combat. My other spiked gauntlet was... as I recall cold magebane. ...My mission largely was finding Arcane spellcasters, grappling them and beating them to death with iteratives. I believe I later added a level of Ranger, took the Favoured Enemy: Arcanist and roleplayed my way to getting Nemesis (an Exalted Feat) which meant I could -always- detect arcane spellcasters within 60ft of me, no exceptions, and got an extra +1d6 to punching evil arcane spellcasters.

This was a surprisingly effective strategy truth be told. I was often killing squishy wizards within a round of having them grappled. It did rely on my DM being the kind of guy who didn't then suddenly give every arcanist I met Dimension Door to ruin my day (though the odd one did), but who instead found my build interesting and for the most part let me do my thing.

Faaaaaaaair warning. Have a second weapon option. My damage from spiked gauntlets with enchantments and str bonus through iteratives was pretty decent, but when I ran up against hefty DR that I couldn't overcome, it wasn't the best. I took to carrying around a +1 Adamantine Greatsword on my back (because heck, I still have a full BAB), for those moments a higher level of blow for blow damage mattered.

For reference, I was also using the feat Knifefighter, which my DM overlooked the regional pre-req for and Scorpion's Grasp (which is a must, and is one of the reason I was using spiked gauntlets, because you have to drop one handed weapons).

Was it the best build ever? No. Was it feat intensive? Heck yes. Was it a lot of fun? I enjoyed it immensely actually, added a high tumble score to really create the aesthetic for me.

The only flange required to make it work was Knifefighter, which really... if you look at it isn't amazing and the regional restriction was clearly just written with Faerun in mind.

On the debate about Reaping Mauler and Clever Wrestling re. Class Features, I think your player is probably onto something actually. But even if he wasn't... why would it be a bad idea just to rule in favour of the player anyway? It's not a major abuse. Heck it's not even particularly powerful. I think I only changed size on one occasion, to which me and my DM had a brief joke about it being silly and moved on with our lives. If you're playing Low Optimisation, which you probably are if you're playing a Reaping Mauler, it's really not going to make any difference if you just let the Reaping Mauler have his moment every now and again.